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As we all know, the Browns have not won the AFC Central/North since 1989. In the time since our last Division Championship, we are 109 and 195 overall, with a win percentage of 35.9%. I believe this breaks down to a rough average of 5.7 W and 10.3 L per year.
I'll always support the Browns, but when you look at the numbers, it becomes apparent how absurd / terrible the franchise has been. You play the same 3 teams twice a year. In the last 20 seasons, we've had 0 Divisional Championships.
Anyone want to break down our overall W/L in the AFC Central/North over the last 20 years?
Last edited by kirbywinslow; 04/02/13 11:36 AM.
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Quote:
As we all know, the Browns have not won the AFC Central/North since 1989. In the time since our last Division Championship, we are 109 and 195 overall, with a win percentage of 35.9%. I believe this breaks down to a rough average of 5.7 W and 10.3 L per year.
I'll always support the Browns, but when you look at the numbers, it becomes apparent how absurd / terrible the franchise has been. You play the same 3 teams twice a year. In the last 20 seasons, we've had 0 Divisional Championships.
Anyone want to break down our overall W/L in the AFC Central/North over the last 20 years?
got a sharp stick?
Joe Thomas #73
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So, what you're saying is that we just aren't anything without the Houston Oilers to beat up on?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It's a bad mix of:
1. Playing a tough division. Pittsburgh and Baltimore are basically perennial contenders since '99. 4 Super Bowls and 5 apperances between the 2 of them. Cincinnati has been on and off. That is a rough go for us.
2. We haven't helped ourselves with regime changes, coaching changes, bad drafts, horrible quarterbacks, etc..
Put it on the Lerner family. A lot of it has to do with them. I don't hate Randy or anything, and I understand he didn't ask to own the team and make the important decisions, but he probably sold the team a few years too late. His father passed in 2002, and he sold 10 years later. I understand that allegedy his dad asked him to own it for 10 years, but he should have maybe put the best interest of the franchise ahead of that.
As a fan, I'm really going to try and give this new group more than a fair shot. I don't think you can factor in the last 10 years when judging what happens with this team. I like just about every move and hiring they have made so far. I like that Jimmy Haslam is present, visible, and very outgoing and outspoken about this team. I like that you see the shots of him showing emotion from the press box.
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We've lacked many things since coming back in 1999...
#1 - We never established a dominant offensive and defensive line combination. You know why we always lose to Baltimore and Pittsburgh? They beat us in the trenches on both sides of the football.
#2 - They both have always had better Quarterback play.
#3 - Our team lacks attitude and intensity, theirs do not.
#4 - Coaching, Coaching, and Coaching. Bad coaching, bad play calling, ect.
#5 - Did I mention offensive and defensive lines? Games are won and lost in the trenches.
#6 - Winning attitude. They have it, we never really have.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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Quote:
We've lacked many things since coming back in 1999...
#1 - We never established a dominant offensive and defensive line combination. You know why we always lose to Baltimore and Pittsburgh? They beat us in the trenches on both sides of the football.
#2 - They both have always had better Quarterback play.
#3 - Our team lacks attitude and intensity, theirs do not.
#4 - Coaching, Coaching, and Coaching. Bad coaching, bad play calling, ect.
#5 - Did I mention offensive and defensive lines? Games are won and lost in the trenches.
#6 - Winning attitude. They have it, we never really have.
#7 - We rebuild every 2 - 4 years changing the entire identity and direction of the franchise.
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Quote:
Quote:
We've lacked many things since coming back in 1999...
#1 - We never established a dominant offensive and defensive line combination. You know why we always lose to Baltimore and Pittsburgh? They beat us in the trenches on both sides of the football.
#2 - They both have always had better Quarterback play.
#3 - Our team lacks attitude and intensity, theirs do not.
#4 - Coaching, Coaching, and Coaching. Bad coaching, bad play calling, ect.
#5 - Did I mention offensive and defensive lines? Games are won and lost in the trenches.
#6 - Winning attitude. They have it, we never really have.
#7 - We rebuild every 2 - 4 years changing the entire identity and direction of the franchise.
#8 Move #7 to #1.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I question the motives of someone making this their first post.
With that being said, it is a legit point. It's not a secret that the Browns have been bad for a long time now. That is especially frustrating in a league that supposedly has a great deal of parity.
Start with ownership, coaching, and quarterback play then go from there.
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I question the motives of someone making this their first post.
If it's an attempt at trolling, it's a total swing and miss. You have to do better than that. Methmann can do better than that.
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Quote:
It's a bad mix of:
1. Playing a tough division. Pittsburgh and Baltimore are basically perennial contenders since '99. 4 Super Bowls and 5 apperances between the 2 of them. Cincinnati has been on and off. That is a rough go for us.
2. We haven't helped ourselves with regime changes, coaching changes, bad drafts, horrible quarterbacks, etc..
Put it on the Lerner family. A lot of it has to do with them. I don't hate Randy or anything, and I understand he didn't ask to own the team and make the important decisions, but he probably sold the team a few years too late. His father passed in 2002, and he sold 10 years later. I understand that allegedy his dad asked him to own it for 10 years, but he should have maybe put the best interest of the franchise ahead of that.
As a fan, I'm really going to try and give this new group more than a fair shot. I don't think you can factor in the last 10 years when judging what happens with this team. I like just about every move and hiring they have made so far. I like that Jimmy Haslam is present, visible, and very outgoing and outspoken about this team. I like that you see the shots of him showing emotion from the press box.
I don't know, if my dad bought the team and learned he was dying and asked me to hold it for 10 years, I don't believe I'd make the promise and then not keep it.
I'd hire the best people I could find and let them do their jobs.. That's exactly what Randy did. Now, were they indeed the best people,, well, as it turns out no, but if you looked at their records and history, you'd have thought it very possible that they were.
So how do you fault him for that. He spared no expense. In the end, he honored his fathers wish, held the team for I think just a few weeks shy of 10 years. he put it in the hands of a guy (haslam) who then put it in the hands of another guy (banner) and now we'll see what happens next.
I like some of their moves, others confuse me. but that aside, the only true test is what they do on the field.
And they haven't had an opportunity to show that side yet.
Coaching hires: I think they did a darn fine job of that. Getting Chud who was able to bring in Turner and then Horton, were, in my view, strong moves.
First Free Agency: I suppose we all wanted something more out of it. I wanted to see a DB of note brought in but that didn't happen. I wanted to see more LB's brought in than were and I wanted a strong TE brought in. Had they done all that, I'd be VERY happy.. But as it is, I'm not really upset about it.
I was sorry to see McCoy go but it's really for the best. He's not ever going to fit what Chud and Turner are looking for. I wish him well. Hated to see Dawson go but it really made sense, didn't really wanna see Cribbs go and in hindsight, I'd rather have kept Watson. (guess were going to see what Cameron has)
But you can't move forward hanging onto people for sentimental reasons.
First Draft: We'll see. If they come out of this with a starting LB or CB that I like, I'll consider it a success.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How apropos just under the authored thread is a Banner with advertisements.
It stated "GIVE UGLY GIRLS A CHANCE" n it shows the back of a young lady with a quite enlarged Butt...which all my football players seem to love...lol 
Well we've been the UGLY GIRL for quite a while in our division.
Btw no Division titles in the early 90's???
Well lets give an UGLY GIRL A CHANCE...We have had a tough 13 years all calling us ugly n fat. Well now we are working hard in the gym...we have gotten Contact Lenses n our Braces are coming off in a year! The Training Bra is about to come off n Brains also become more attractive! OUR TIME IS COMING!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
How apropos just under the authored thread is a Banner with advertisements.
It stated "GIVE UGLY GIRLS A CHANCE" n it shows the back of a young lady with a quite enlarged Butt.
Ummmm. Isn't it Google Ads which shows you things based off your search history??? 
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Sincere apologies to any women who follow this board. 
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/02/13 03:06 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Quote:
How apropos just under the authored thread is a Banner with advertisements.
It stated "GIVE UGLY GIRLS A CHANCE" n it shows the back of a young lady with a quite enlarged Butt.
Ummmm. Isn't it Google Ads which shows you things based off your search history???
I am so glad that I don't see ads.
Speaking of which, I think that it's about time for a donation ..... just to make sure that continues)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I question the motives of someone making this their first post.
It's a bengals fan.
#gmstrong
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I think it is thread related as well, because I often see ads for things I;ve never searched but they are very related to the subject of the thread.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Could be, I just remember a few years ago on an MMA forum a person who was a long time member went off on a rant about the ads. He was saying he felt it was disgusting to be show ads for "Gay Black Men" and the owners of the message board should be ashamed of themselves. Then it was pointed out by a moderator that the ads were Google ads and pulled the the users' search history, which lead to many people screen shot'ing the post and making "Self Pwn" banners and ridiculed the person that they deleted their account.
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Guess who's back............................:)
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Quote:
I don't know, if my dad bought the team and learned he was dying and asked me to hold it for 10 years, I don't believe I'd make the promise and then not keep it.
I'd hire the best people I could find and let them do their jobs.. That's exactly what Randy did. Now, were they indeed the best people,, well, as it turns out no, but if you looked at their records and history, you'd have thought it very possible that they were.
So how do you fault him for that. He spared no expense. In the end, he honored his fathers wish, held the team for I think just a few weeks shy of 10 years. he put it in the hands of a guy (haslam) who then put it in the hands of another guy (banner) and now we'll see what happens next.
Maybe we should blame Al for basically forcing Randy to run the team for 10 years when he clearly wasn't all in?
Doesn't it just seem like this move should have been made right after the Mangini fiasco? I wish they could have just skipped the entire Holmgren regime. Yes, Heckert did a great job flipping this roster from an aging, talentless one, to a young group with promise, but I don't think that's the hardest thing to do when you're a GM. Getting people to buy into it and be patient is probably the toughest part.
I don't think Randy was like "well I don't like the NFL, so screw this team, I'm going to go own a pro soccer team in Europe!' That can be debunked by the fact that he opened up the checkbook for just about everything. He paid new coaches while fired coaches were still on the payroll. He paid Holmgren 7 mil a year to simply overlook operations. That alone shows that he did care. I just don't think he was all in. When you're a billionaire, it's easy to just throw a bunch of money at the situation when you're not fully passionate about it. Instead of rolling up your sleeves and getting to the bottom of the issues that have bugged this team for 13 years now and counting.
I just wonder, if it was true, why did Al insist Randy keep the team for 10 years? Why? He had to have known his own son wasn't really that into it, and regardless of wether or not the team was sold, financially, the family would be more than well off. They sold their MBNA shares not too long ago, yes? I'm pretty sure no Lerner will ever have to dig ditches from now until the day the Earth explodes.
Jimmy Haslam doesn't seem like the type that wakes up and thinks football, and lives and breathes it every day. However, he does seem driven. The investment alone should have taken care of that. Randy Lerner never dumped a cool billion into this team.
I'm no Randy Lerner hater or anything. I think he's good people. I think his family over the years has been very generous to the Cleveland community, but I'm glad he made the choice to put our team into the hands of someone who is more passionate, and maybe has some new ideas about things.
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Quote:
Maybe we should blame Al for basically forcing Randy to run the team for 10 years when he clearly wasn't all in?
Why does there always have to be someone to blame.. Geesh
Randy did what he thought was right. He tried to get it done. it didn't work but it's not because he just gave up.
I do believe that Al would have made different hiring decisions but there really isn't any way to tell for sure.
But if we must blame anyone,, I mean if blame needs assessed, then you go to Taglibue and the League for allowing Art Modell to move the damn team in the first place.
he was a fiscal train wreck waiting to happen again.They should have known that moving wasn't going to help him. and as it turned out, it didn't, he had to sell the team anyway because he couldn't manage the money end of it. And his pockets weren't deep enough to cover the losses.
But again, blame.. why? It is what it is..
I don't think we'll ever know if it's 100% true that Al required or asked Randy to keep it for 10 years, but that is what was reported last summer when this whole transaction was announced. I wasn't in the room, so I don't know it. But why would anyone lie about that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No trolling here - don't mind it being my first post. I follow the boards regularly, just never started posting until now. I was looking at some numbers today, and saw this and thought it was a good discussion point. I mean, the numbers don't lie. It actually came as a shock to me. I didn't realize we had been that bad. (I knew we were bad). Maybe it's the orange glasses I wear skewing things for me.
I still really want to know our W/L vs the division over this time frame. You would think through the draft we would have at least built a respectable team, although I'm well aware of our massive draft flops.
Pretty much, I'm just dumbfounded how over the last 20 years a team could be this bad. I'd say it reminds me of the Phillies, but they've even won a championship. Maybe we're more of a Royals/Pirates organization at the moment. To not win your own division consisting of 3 other teams in 20 seasons is terrible. Statistically even it's highly improbable.
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I'm not the guy always looking to blame someone, but man, if you've watched this team for the last 13 years, I definitely have no problem blaming those who deserve it.
Still more than anything, I'm glad he came around to it. If it wasn't for that, we'd probably be entering the third year of the Shurmur era, and I'd be one step closer to rehab.
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Personally I think, If they didn't insist on keeping Baltimore in the division, things may have turned out differently. I'd prefer Baltimore play in the NFC west, where we wouldn't have to be reminded they exist except once in a blue moon.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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2 words sums it up: No Quarterback!!!! Can't win anything in the NFL without one. We all have seen the list and it's UGLY! Bernie highlights anyone??
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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Personally I think, If they didn't insist on keeping Baltimore in the division, things may have turned out differently. I'd prefer Baltimore play in the NFC west, where we wouldn't have to be reminded they exist except once in a blue moon.
I would love to see a realign with Balt and Buff switching divisions.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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Its time to look forward and quit looking back ...JMHO  
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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jc Just wtf is the purpose of this thread? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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More salt in a BIG wound  
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Well the ads on now n soon after when I posted are about the Browns draft party. However I am on a borrowed Computer.
I thought everyone sees the same thing - I have no clue how this works n the computer I am using does not utilize Google...just Bing (StartNow).
anyway...we still are the Ugly Duckling of this Division.
My point was not to ridicule the add nor the thread. Just letting you all know I don't google porn nor big butt women. I could just take a walk at the Mall...lol
Oh n no insult intended to our Female Dawgettes - just what I saw...;)
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I would love to see a realign with Balt and Buff switching divisions.
Making our division weaker just to win the division is a wussy way out.. You beat the best teams to win your division... Then you beat the best teams out side your division.. that makes Championship teams...
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Quote:
Quote:
I would love to see a realign with Balt and Buff switching divisions.
Making our division weaker just to win the division is a wussy way out.. You beat the best teams to win your division... Then you beat the best teams out side your division.. that makes Championship teams...
Then again, all the recent and not so recent dynasties were made by being a great team in a weak division. Steelers when they won theirs, the niners and the Patriots all had their consecutive championship runs by racking up relatively easy wins in their own division.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Look at the bright side.. we had a 500 record in 96, 97, and 98... 0-0..
silliness at its best.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Guess who's back............................:)
was wondering if yu were going t show up. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Look at the bright side.. we had a 500 record in 96, 97, and 98... 0-0..
silliness at its best.
Actually, in the standings .... 0-0 always has a winning percentage of .000
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So we were undefeated then..
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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We're undefeated right now Been an ugly return but I still love my browns!
<><
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would love to see a realign with Balt and Buff switching divisions.
Making our division weaker just to win the division is a wussy way out.. You beat the best teams to win your division... Then you beat the best teams out side your division.. that makes Championship teams...
Then again, all the recent and not so recent dynasties were made by being a great team in a weak division. Steelers when they won theirs, the niners and the Patriots all had their consecutive championship runs by racking up relatively easy wins in their own division.
Yea, can I get Arizona, the Jets, and Jacksonville in the new Browns division? That'd be sweet.
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