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On offense we will have Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Gordon, Little, and Richardson all returning for sure. Pinkston, Lauvao, Greco, Weeden, Cameron, and Benjamin are all pretty good bets to play regularly.
On defense we will have Rubin, Taylor, Jackson, Sheard, Haden, and Ward all returning for sure. Winn, Johnson, Skrine, and Hughes will also get significant playing time as well.
We will have many returning players from last season. That is not a total rebuild.
We just cut an older player who missed an entire season due to a torn achilles and a guy who was terrible. There is no reason to panic.
I agree with everything you said except for saying Usama was terrible ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I could go back and give you dozens of such posts when Banner, Lombardi, Horton etc were announced and I was pilloried for saying we're going to be going through an overhaul.
So could I. You try to tell people that with a new FO they will put their face on things. That new systems across the board will mean a huge overhaul in players.
They buy into everything thrown their way and don't seem to see it coming. This is still only the beginning of it. I don't see these players as huge losses, but as much need as we'll be having at LBer and S, it would be nice to have more answers before we had even more questions.
Hah, I was mocked with "sky is falling" type remarks when I called the rebuild when the announcement came that the team was sold.
there was a few of us that said similar things and people got out the pitchforks and said we were chicken littles
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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So you think that Usama Young wasn't terrible?
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Since you're saying we will keep almost half of our roster for at least one season I'd find that hard to disagree with. To me that constitutes a rebuild. Surely you wouldn't think we have to replace all 53 to call it a rebuild would you? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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J/c
I won't get into some big debate over somebody no longer a Brown - But I liked Gocong I thought he blitzed well n I was curious how he was going to do with the Attack D. Although the acquiition of Kruger sort of was the first nail cause initially Gocong was penciled in at SOLB. Thought he was moving Inside again. The timing was a little weird on this but again I'm wondering if it was a coincidence that we started our conditioning program yesterday n he was released today?
I tend to agree with you. At first I wasn't a fan of the Gocong's extension in 2011 but I did enjoy his play as his 2011 campaign evolved. And it wasn't just his Pitt goal line stand...I thought he provided improved pressure on the QB that year. I do agree with some that he wasn't the fastest guy in the LB corp, however.
It's too bad for him on his achilles injury in TC. It would have been nice to see his play in Jauron's defense for a second consecutive year. Maybe that could have changed people's perception of him. Maybe not. One of the main reasons he was brought over here in 2010, according to what I remember, was that Mangini wanted to draft him when he was with the Jets. He liked his play at Cal Poly and wanted him to play in his 3-4. I thought maybe his past play in the 3-4 a couple years back may have aided him as this team looks to transition. Again, he wasn't the fastest, but thought he was versatile to a certain extent. But the $5 mil was a factor and a reason I am not surprised he's gone.
Hopefully the cap space goes to re-sign guys long term already here.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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So you think that Usama Young wasn't terrible?
No i don't, I don't think he is a Pro-Bowler but terrible no way  I may be wrong but I heard the Niners already signed him? 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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The vast majority of our team were drafted n UDFA players from the last 3 years. I don't remember any of them being released? Only Colt who has been demoted to #3 n got traded for more than a Carson Palmer.
All those who have left except for Cribbs n Dawson (although Dawson was a 1999 FA???) were brought in as FA - Gocong, Young, Sheldon, Patterson, Rucker, Parker, All FA brought by the other system guys...not an overhaul.
JMHO Colt is the only draft pick let go that was drafted.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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So you think that Usama Young wasn't terrible?
No i don't, I don't think he is a Pro-Bowler but terrible no way I may be wrong but I heard the Niners already signed him?
Usama was a good 8th man in the box cause he was decent against the run. Otherwise, I forever will know him as Usama the horrible angle taker. His coverage skills were... below average.
All JMO.
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Oh no! How will we survive?  We have good competition at ILB with Fort, Robertson, JMJ, and Carder. (who the staff reportedly likes) We have Gipson, Hagg, and maybe Bademosi competing at FS. We're probably going to have to look for a backup SS somewhere. With Young gone we really don't have a SS type left as a backup. I think that someone wondered why we would cut them now without someone to replace them. The answer to that is obvious. Neither player was in the team's plans, so why keep them around taking up valuable coaching time that can go to other players?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Oh no! How will we survive?
We have good competition at ILB with Fort, Robertson, JMJ, and Carder. (who the staff reportedly likes)
\
I think Robertson could be a beast. I've been pimping him for over a year. along with JMJ and Fort next to DQ.
especially if we go with lttle/er big men who can hit and cover.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Sorry but I was talking about the turnover of our 53 man roster. Isn't that what you usually gauge a rebuild by? Turnover of your 53 man roster?
Hey, we'll have people denying it's a rebuild for the next two years until we are basicly rebuilt. And that's okay.
But that won't change what it is......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Not surprised these two were released. What is surprising, to me at least, is the timing. We are thin at both positions, especially FS, and would have thought this would have happened later on this year once we addressed possible replacements.
The Gocong release should free up a couple million. Best of luck to both guys.
I think the timing is good. Both are vets. To me, bad timing would have been to keep them around as flotsam for a few months.
This gives them a chance to catch on early with another team. I know I would rather get a early release from a team rather than bust my butt for a team through camp on which I was never given a real chance of making.
Class move by Lombardi, Banner, and Chud.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I like JMJ alot ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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What I always noticed from Usama was his erratic nature and his late hits...he reminded me of a safety I used to watch a lot of named Brandon Everage from Oklahoma...Usama often blew his coverage from taking false steps...I think notably Oakland and KC games I recall Usama running down to left portion of the field, read the play completely wrong..center of the field was open the WR caught the ball then turned upfield...Ward and Haden had to give chase...Same thing in the second Bengals game as well...not sad at all to see him go...but I wonder now...who's our FS...slide down a tad and grab Vacarro in round 1...obtain a 2nd rounder nab our CB (Banks? Slay? Amerson?) 3rd round perhaps a TE or LB? Not sure...but we still have several holes on both sides
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The answer to that is obvious.
I was the someone n just to note not bashing the FO in any way just curious cause it isn't so obvious - you say dead weight.
Well just about everyone decided on the dead weight the first week of March not April.
That is why I'm curious on the timing of this...the only variable that is in the mix is us starting our conditioning program yesterday. My curiosity is if that had anything whatsoever to do with the releases? Just not so obvious to me. Not in our plans...well I guess that part is obvious due to the release but my question why is it realized now.
Is this cause they did not have enough time to assess prior??? Or is there a REASON that just is not that obvious. Yes, the end result is obvious that we don't have them in our future plans.
JMH?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Banner already got rid of Gocong once before when he was with the Eagles. It is no shock that he would do so here as well. It is likely that he just doesn't like him as a player.
Young flat out sucks as a S. He can get a couple of INT, because he completely abandons his responsibilities and occasionally gets lucky. He's awful. There is no need to carry them through camp if they are not going to be in the team's plans. They obviously feel that they could go sign someone off the street who would be just as good, if need be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, the timing is strange, but who knows, maybe we're close to signing Rhodes and Dansby? 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Not surprised these two were released. What is surprising, to me at least, is the timing. We are thin at both positions, especially FS, and would have thought this would have happened later on this year once we addressed possible replacements.
The Gocong release should free up a couple million. Best of luck to both guys.
I think the timing is good. Both are vets. To me, bad timing would have been to keep them around as flotsam for a few months.
This gives them a chance to catch on early with another team. I know I would rather get a early release from a team rather than bust my butt for a team through camp on which I was never given a real chance of making.
Class move by Lombardi, Banner, and Chud.
I agree.
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Here's something weird ..... with the current makeup of the roster, we only have 1 player over the age of 30. That player is Jason Campbell.
Our 2 oldest players are Campbell and Weeden.
Banner identified 27 as the peak range of a player's career, and that was the age he went after in free agency. As the roster sits today, we have only 8 players over the age of 27.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Children of the Corn?
- there's a team nickname in here somewhere
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"We have good competition at ILB with Fort, Robertson, JMJ, and Carder. (who the staff reportedly likes)"
I don't know why this exited me, but it did. We (mostly) have been complaining about UY & this FO did something about it! Gocong, I wish him well but he was a slow thumper.
I was suprised how much playing time the above ILB got, but I guess w/ Gocong out it may have been a blessing in disguise.
I just feel we have a real oportunity for some young guys to bust out. A far cry from where we were just 2-3 years ago.
If I only knew then what I know today...
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That's why I think we should look to add some veteran leadership to the roster like Rhodes or Dansby. We were one of the youngest teams last season and still had around 10 players over 30
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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That's why I think we should look to add some veteran leadership to the roster like Rhodes or Dansby. We were one of the youngest teams last season and still had around 10 players over 30
I agree Rhodes and Dansby would be great additions ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Well, we all saw it coming...but the timing is odd. They released Colt after they signed a QB...since we weren't exactly against the cap, does this mean we will or are about to sign a FS or ILB? I hope so....or at least announce a re-signing of our own core guys like Ward or Mack.
After getting rid of Colt's, Gocong's and Usama's contracts, we now have about 35mil in cap space again
Django, I was just thinking the same thing about the cap.
I really don't think we'll miss these guys at all, but I am getting the feeling that we are paving the way for a big move somewhere. Not sure what it might be but something is in the works....JMHO!
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No doubt if the guy showed up looking like me, he gets cut....but if it was a 60+ football team, I wouldn't get cut just on looks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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yeah... I pointed that out like 2 weeks ago when Weeden was the oldest player on the team
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Good luck Chris. He gave it his all while in Cleveland, and he really is a good guy. Usama.... hmmmm never met the guy and have no clue about him as a person but he made some $$$ while here and I wish him the best. Now Bogotay oh lord help us that we even signed this guy to save on our next kickers leg in camp 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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When you go 5-11 or worse in consecutive seasons, every season is a rebuilding season. You can expect 10-15 new names on the roster.. those are just the facts.
Gocong and Young fit the profile of a marginal veteran player taking up the space of unknown players. You can get by if you are an established team and need support, but when you are outside looking in, it is better to move on.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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When you go 5-11 or worse in consecutive seasons, every season is a rebuilding season. You can expect 10-15 new names on the roster.. those are just the facts.
Gocong and Young fit the profile of a marginal veteran player taking up the space of unknown players. You can get by if you are an established team and need support, but when you are outside looking in, it is better to move on.
I will be shocked if its not more like 25 to 30 new names on the roster. a lot of the late round picks and UDFAs will probably be gone too. that's half the roster.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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All Pro
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With the Kicker I believe we're at 9:
OLB Paul Kruger (Ravens), DT Desmond Bryant (Raiders), OLB Quentin Groves (Cardinals), TE Kellen Davis (Bears), CB Chris Owens (Falcons), RB Chris Ogbonnaya, TE Gary Barnidge (Panthers) and CB Kevin Barnes (Lions).
Add in maybe 2 more vets,2-3 UDRFA's (pretty normal) and 5-7 Drafted rookies and we'd be at about 20 new faces, a fairly large number, but then again the average for the league is usually around 12-15 so not that big, really.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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When you go 5-11 or worse in consecutive seasons, every season is a rebuilding season. You can expect 10-15 new names on the roster.. those are just the facts.
Gocong and Young fit the profile of a marginal veteran player taking up the space of unknown players. You can get by if you are an established team and need support, but when you are outside looking in, it is better to move on.
I will be shocked if its not more like 25 to 30 new names on the roster. a lot of the late round picks and UDFAs will probably be gone too. that's half the roster.
How much you don't know, young padawan....
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Just clicking.
Good move on releasing Gocong. 3-4, thumper-style ILBs are probably the easiest position to draft for in the NFL besides running back. The Browns can find a solid starter in the mid-rounds.
Not sure about releasing Young. Seems like he could have been good depth. Nothing to get too concerned about, though.
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Those are nothing more than names,dime a dozen players who you recognize only because they play for the Browns.
Seeing those names in print makes me realize how far away from good we truely are.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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When you go 5-11 or worse in consecutive seasons, every season is a rebuilding season. You can expect 10-15 new names on the roster.. those are just the facts.
Gocong and Young fit the profile of a marginal veteran player taking up the space of unknown players. You can get by if you are an established team and need support, but when you are outside looking in, it is better to move on.
I will be shocked if its not more like 25 to 30 new names on the roster. a lot of the late round picks and UDFAs will probably be gone too. that's half the roster.
How much you don't know, young padawan....
like the guy said above your post we are up to 9. add in the draft and your at 15. and then the cuts and trades after the draft? no I wont be that far off.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Nrtu
I wonder what the average turnover is on NFL team from year to year - I'd bet even perineal winners have a good amount of turnover each year...
<><
#gmstrong
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Nrtu
I wonder what the average turnover is on NFL team from year to year - I'd bet even perineal winners have a good amount of turnover each year...
the ratbirds sure did this year 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c Go to about :40 into this video. I laughed when it happened and I laugh every time I see it since. web page
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c
Go to about :40 into this video. I laughed when it happened and I laugh every time I see it since.
web page
LMAO
That is why I refer to Young as Usama the horrible angle tackler haha. Multiple that by so much, that is what you got with Usama in the open field in coverage.
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j/c
Go to about :40 into this video. I laughed when it happened and I laugh every time I see it since.
web page
LMAO
That is why I refer to Young as Usama the horrible angle tackler haha. Multiple that by so much, that is what you got with Usama in the open field in coverage.
http://www.youtube.com/v/40qPiYAaJlA
this is the one I laugh at. and the sad part all 4 are still on the roster. lol
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Thanks.  I took my son to that game.....what a horrendous performance. Another good play is when Pashos completely gave up on that 90yd pic 6. All he had to do was stick his arms out. It really looked like he was trying not to impede the runner.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns release Gocong and Usama
Young; sign Bogotay (kicker)
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