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Banner's history in NFL draft points to Browns trade
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff writer

Mel Kiper is holding court, Nolan Nawrocki is hammering quarterbacks, and the NFL draft rat race is on.

Everybody’s an analyst. Numerous voters have responded to a walterfootball.com poll as to what the Browns should do with their No. 6 overall pick.

Spend it on Dion Jordan, 42.4 percent of the electorate said. Ezekial Ansah was the man for 24 percent.

Browns CEO Joe Banner and general manager Michael Lombardi have their own ideas of what to do with pick No. 6. There is a 100 percent chance they have explored trading it.

The only question is whether they are getting any good bites. They would love to compensate for the second-round pick lost in last year’s supplemental draft, in which they picked wideout Josh Gordon.

The consensus is that it might be no great sacrifice to move out of the top 10, if someone can be snookered into giving up a pick later in Round 1 and a second-rounder.

“My history has been more trading down than up or staying,” Banner said recently. “I have had some instances where we’ve traded up for a player we thought was really good at a position we thought was difference making.

“But historically I have either stayed or traded back. Accumulating picks over the course of the draft is a good strategy generally.”

Key letter: “I.”

Banner is a “business guy,” sure, but he gives every indication he is hard wired to the football side. His current posture and his run with the Eagles make it obvious the Browns are not only in talks to trade down, but are likely to do so.

Banner joined the Eagles in 1994 and became president in 2001. At one point, in eight consecutive drafts, his Eagles made a deal involving a top-40 pick.

In 2001, they sent No. 88 and No. 107 overall picks in 2001 to Miami in exchange for the Dolphins Round 2 pick in 2002. It turned into a No. 59 overall pick spent on cornerback Sheldon Brown, a Cleveland Brown from 2010-12.

As Banner’s presidency evolved, the Eagles made trades involving high picks in:

• 2003. Moved up to No. 15 to get defensive end Jerome McDougal, sent No. 30 and No. 62 picks to Miami.

• 2004. Moved up to No. 16 to get tackle Shawn Andrews, sent No. 28 and No. 58 picks to San Francisco.

• 2005. Sent quarterback A.J. Feeley to Miami in exchange for a No. 35 pick, spent on wideout Reggie Brown.

• 2006. Moved up to No. 39 to pick tackle Winston Justice, sent No. 45 and No. 116 picks to Tennessee.

2007. Moved down from No. 26 in a trade with Dallas, acquired picks No. 36 (spent on Kevin Kolb), No. 87 (Stewart Bradley) and No. 159 (C.J. Gaddis).

• 2008. Moved down from No. 19 in a trade with Carolina, acquiring picks No. 43 and No. 109 (Mike McGlynn; chosen five spots ahead of McKinley High graduate Reggie Corner); sent the No. 43 pick and a No. 152 pick to Minnesota for picks No. 47 (Trevor Laws) and No. 117 (Quintin Demps).

• 2009. Moved up to No. 19 to get wideout Jeremy Maclin, sent No. 21 and No. 195 picks to Cleveland.

• 2010 (after Heckert moved to Cleveland). Moved up to No. 13 to get Brandon Graham, sent No. 24, No. 70 and No. 87 picks to Denver.

Banner’s role with the Eagles changed not long after Heckert’s departure. Now he is in Cleveland, the same old Trader Joe. web page

I'm confused when he says his history is mostly trading down... then they list his history and it is mostly trading up.

I hope he is a trade down guy during his tenure here, trading up tends to upset me.

This is a pretty crappy list of deals imho, especially the picks. Nothing here did up my confidence in Joe as a talent evaluator...the best might be the small uptrade to get Maclin, but that doesn't count as it involved Mangini

Did he really trade down from 19 to 43 for only a 4th rounder (109) in 2008? There has to be a future pick involved, right?

I am pretty sure something got lost in the translation on that one.

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“My history has been more trading down than up or staying,” Banner said recently

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Had the same exact thought KingKob...a lot of trade ups.

Man I am very confused also cause all these years n there was a very extensive research of history reported especially after the HECKERT signing here as GM. It was always Andy Reid, Reid, Reid was the guy calling the shots on draft day. Now we are to believe its been Banner ???

Possibly most of those move ups were Reids wishes??? Where Banner statement is regarding his Input in the drafts - not ALL the Eagles moves. ???

Just never heard Banner n Draft in sentences about the Eagles until he got here

JMH???

Wow,, some of what he got with those trade "UPs" weren't all that good.

Suddenly, I'm not feeling very well.

Would love a trade down, and a 2nd round pick!

I just have a hard time believing someone wants to move up to 6.

What the heck happened to my post??

color:"orange"]There's some complicated things that happened there that are not being siad..I thought it was Reid who controlled the draft myself from what was put out there.
Read this..

http://frontofficesports.wordpress.com/tag/philadelphia-eagles/

The End of the Andy Reid Era:
Also led the Eagles’ front office as General Manager from 2001-05, and made all final football decisions from 2001-12

It's funny, the same people that defend Banner by saying "it was all Reid" are the ones that claim that Banner WAS in fact involved in the draft/FA evaluations process to calm down those who are critical of Banner running the show for us...what is it now? You can't argue both ways...

He either has zero experience as the trigger man or he does and the results obviously sucked and led to the Eagles decline...either way, I don't like it

No, not directed at you. I remember having some fights with Toad over how much power did Banner have in Philly. I was livid that we were lied to regarding the "strong" personnel man, be it a GM or "strong" HC. I suspected all along that Banner was going "Malcobich-Malcovich" with this, meaning he was talking about himself the entire time. Then Toad pulled out some articles that suggested he did have say in personnel matters and said he felt more comfy because of it, but the dilemma just doesn't go away...we either have a noob running the ship or a failed retread

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It's funny, the same people that defend Banner by saying "it was all Reid" are the ones that claim that Banner WAS in fact involved in the draft/FA evaluations process to calm down those who are critical of Banner running the show for us...what is it now? You can't argue both ways...

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Then this:

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He either has zero experience as the trigger man or he does and the results obviously sucked and led to the Eagles decline...either way, I don't like it

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Now someone might say...

It's funny, those who don't like Banner will either say he had no input into the personnel side of things so it was Reid that gets all the credit, or that Banner did have input which led to the decline of the Eagles...either way, they won't like him.

In typical board fashion people are going to see what they want to see, whether that's for or against Banner. The wise course of thinking would be to judge what he's done here so far and leave it at that, since the actual truth of how much input he's had with personnel during his time with the Eagles is undetermined at best.

If Banner had no hand in Philly, then we are run by noobs and failed retreads. It was YOU that said you feel more comfy to KNOW Banner had say in personnel, not me, remember? You rode that one for weeks and now it doesn't matter? There goes your twisting

Trading down is probably the best option for us if Jordan and Milliner aren't there. And it might still be the best option if those guys are there.

There isn't much difference between the talent in the early first round than there is in the mid to late first round. I would much rather have a mid to late first round pick and a second round pick than Jarvis Jones or Ansah at six.

What stage?

Wouldn't it be more telling about what Mike Lombardi would do?

Most of those trades involved Tom Heckert as the GM of the Eggles.

It continued with him as the GM in Cleveland too.

Find me a quote where I give Reid credit for their success? There isn't any...my point is that the last we know about the Eagles is that they sucked and the NFL is a what have you done for me lately business

We also know that Banner is a cap guru. So, let's assume he had say in personnel. Since the past years the cap isn't as significant anymore I see a correlation between the two events...

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Find me a quote where I give Reid credit for their success?

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SOMEONE has to get the credit for the successes. You're clearly laying all the blame at Banner's feet, so the only person left to get the credit for the successes is Reid. Your words, not mine.

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my point is that the last we know about the Eagles is that they sucked and the NFL is a what have you done for me lately business

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Horsecrap.

When JUDGING the history of a regime it's not about "what have you done for me lately." You judge an entire body of work.

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We also know that Banner is a cap guru. So, let's assume he had say in personnel. Since the past years the cap isn't as significant anymore I see a correlation between the two events...

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Nice try. Yet another way to try and devalue Banner.

Answer the question: Is it fair to assign blame to Banner on the personnel side if you cannot give him credit on the personnel side?

I agree. But because we pick in front of the Cardinals, who desperately need a left tackle, I think if either Fisher or Joeckel is available we will be able to find a trade partner. Teams might even be willing to trade in front of the Cardinals to get Johnson.

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It was always Andy Reid, Reid, Reid was the guy calling the shots on draft day. Now we are to believe its been Banner ???

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Maybe it was Reid picking the player and Banner finding a way to get that player. :shrug:

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Banner + Trade Partner = Trade

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Fixed it.

I would say odds are that we have already worked out parameters with a couple teams like the Phins and Chargers who will look to jump the Cards and Bills for a LT. Then you have a couple teams on the back end that may believe they are 1 player away like the 49ers and Broncos.

I dont think finding a trade partner will be that hard. Hell we could trade down more than once in this draft. Drop down to 11 or 12 then you get teams antsy about getting a receiver or one of the pass rushers that has fallen.

Gonna be interesting, to bad I will be working that night lol.

Man I hope your right and we can trade back at least once for more picks and even more times would be great. Personally I don't wanna drop out of top 25 but if got some real outstanding offers maybe. Yet would love to pick up a 2nd and possibly couple of 3's - 5's. With more picks would give our F.O. Chance for more picks and for us as fans to get a better feel how this new leadership group will pick and evaluate players leading us into a new regime and really stamp out how the next 3-5 years play out.

jc

at this point, if Milliner isn't there I kind of hope they do trade it and get us into the second round and whatever else...

Was The Absence Of Joe Banner The Reason For The Improved Eagles Draft?


Thursday, December 27th, 2012

According to a person close to the Eagles, there’s a big difference between the Eagles brain trust which orchestrated the Birds 2012 draft, as compared to the group which navigated the 2010 and 2011 draft. Yes, Andy Reid was the Eagles head coach during all of those drafts and he had final say on the picks. Yes, Howie Roseman was the guy evaluating the players prior to those three drafts, but there was still a major difference.

The difference was the presence of current Brown President Joe Banner. The life long friend of Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie was the team’s President, and he was there for the 2010 and 2011 drafts. He wasn’t around for the 2012 draft and I’m told it made a big difference. Banner pressed the decision makers about getting position players who would meet their needs.

I’m told that the Eagles feel they will continue to draft better if they focus on getting the best player available rather than drafting to meet position needs. They believe teams who try to get the best player rather than trying to meet needs tend to be more consistent in the selection process.

Let’s take a quick look back at the last three Eagles drafts.

In the 2010 draft with Banner driving the idea to draft for needs, the Eagles struggled in the early rounds. I don’t know that you say that is the reason they chose Brandon Graham over Jason Pierre Paul, but drafting Daniel Te’o Nesheim in the third round could have been done as a way to address position needs.

1. DE Brandon Graham

2. S Nate Allen

3. DE Daniel Te’o Nesheim

4. CB Trevard Lindley

LB Keenan Clayton

QB Mike Kafka

5. DE Ricky Sapp

WR Riley Cooper

6. RB Charles Scott

LB Jamar Chaney

7. DT Jeff Owens

S Kurt Coleman

Amazingly the Eagles did better at the end of the draft than they did at the start of it. Fifth round pick Riley Cooper, sixth round pick Jamar Chaney and seventh round pick Kurt Coleman have contributed more than the players in the first, second, third and fourth rounds. This could be attributed to stressing meeting needs in the top rounds and trying to get the best player available in the latter rounds.

In the 2011 draft

1. G Danny Watkins

2. S Jaiquawn Jarrett

3. CB Curtis Marsh

4. LB Casey Matthews

K Alex Henery

5. RB Dion Lewis

G Julian Vandervelde

6. C Jason Kelce

7. LB Greg Lloyd

FB Stanley Havili

Look at the production of the first four rounds in the 2011 draft and it could make you throw up. Watkins, Jarrett, Marsh and Matthews are all either sitting the bench or not on a roster in the NFL. It looks like the Eagles missed on their first five picks of the 2011 draft.

The Birds decision to draft a player in the first round who would be 27 in his rookie year was a major mistake and I don’t think they can blame all of it on over-emphasizing addressing team needs. Watkins has been benched in favor of Jake Scott, who was sitting at home a month ago.

The most disturbing thing I’ve heard about Watkins is that he doesn’t love playing football. Amazingly this guy may want to be a fireman more than a NFL player.

Jarrett was definitely a reach because he played the safety position. He wasn’t fast enough to play safety in the NFL. Here you have a second round pick who is available, but no other teams have touched him since the Eagles released him.

Marsh has the size and speed needed to play, but he hasn’t shown the quickness or ball skills needed to play the corner in this league. He continues to be an Oak Ridge Boy (bench warmer).

Matthews started at the beginning of his career a year ago, but wasn’t able to keep his starting position. It was the best of situations to be middle linebacker in the “Wide Nine” during your rookie year in the NFL. He lost his starting job and hasn’t been able to regain it.

The Eagles second pick in the fourth round has been very good. I’m talking about kicker Alex Henery, who will probably be the Eagles MVP. He’s had a very good year and may have been the best pick in the 2011 draft.

Their first pick in the fifth round, Pittsburgh running back Dion Lewis was supposed to be backing up LeSean McCoy, but he was beaten out by this year’s seventh round pick, Bryce Brown. Lewis hasn’t done much since he was drafted.

The Eagles second pick in the fifth round was guard , Julian Vandervelde, who has done absolutely nothing for the Birds during his short career. They’ve cut him a couple of times and brought him back, but they’ve never really considered starting him.

In the sixth round the Birds selected Cincinnati center Jason Kelce, who is probably their best pick on the 2011 draft. Prior to sustaining a season-ending knee-injury earlier this season, he was on his way to being one of the best centers in the NFL.

In the seventh round, they selected linebacker Greg Lloyd. He didn’t have NFL talent.

Their final seventh round pick was USC fullback Stanley Havili and he’s been a pleasant surprise. After spending a year on injured reserve, Havili has been the starter at fullback this year, but hasn’t been asked to do much.

It’s still early, but it looks like the Eagles have done a much better job in the 2012 draft, than they did in 2010 and 2011.

1. DT Fletcher Cox

2. LB Mychal Kendricks

DE Vinny Curry

3. QB Nick Foles

4. CB Brandon Boykin

5. OT Dennis Kelly

6. WR Marvin McNutt

OG Brandon Washington

7. RB Bryce Brown

Clearly the Eagles did a much better job at the top of the 2012 draft than they did in 2010 and 2011. Was the absence of Eagles President Joe Banner and his emphasis on meeting position needs the reason for the improvement? I can’t say but something made a difference.

Cox looks like he’s headed to being one of the best defensive tackles in the NFL. We knew he had the size, quickness and speed, but he plays hard and has the ability to take over a game.

Kendricks started out strong, but ran into the rookie wall. He was moved to his true position, WILL linebacker, where speed, quickness and instincts are a priority. They turned him loose on a couple of blitzes and looks like he belong there and may be an impact player.

Curry has showed some fire when he got the chance to play. but he’s got a lot to prove.

Foles has shown us that he has the smarts, size and demeanor to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. Can he be a franchise quarterback? I don’t kno He showed he can take the hits and handle the pressure. The young man has a lot more to prove, but I think he has shown potential.

Boykin has showed us his potential at the nickel back position, in what has been an up and down year. His small size could limit his ability to be a starting cornerback.

Kelly has shown that he can be a starter at the right tackle position. The youngster struggled early on, but he has recovered and is playing better.

McNutt got very little playing time, so nobody knows whether he can do anything on the professional level.

Washington was released.

Brown showed us he has the ability to be a star running back. He had tremendous games in his first two starts, but he’s got to learn to avoid fumbles.

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