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I can't find one thing to justify when someone says "they liked MoMass" or thought he did something.
Well as long as you have an open mind about it... 
For someone talking about LOGIC...sorry you have not given one bit of LOGIC to counter anything brought up positive...NOT ONE retort w/Logic. or one retort on a "thought" he did something positive. Ignorance is no valid argument.
So what you just stated above is it didn't matter what VALID explanation someone would give...YOUR MIND IS REMAINING CLOSED. No big deal the kid is gone. But I did see good in him - I saw him actually work hard at his trade n got better results as he went along. He Learned his routes became crisp. His hands improved. He would have been a good WR in the stable if he didn't have like 7 concussions n became damaged goods.
JMHO
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MoMass was a solid receiver. As Tab point out good not great. People who are knocking on him should really take a look at who were his QB's. Not one ever started for an NFL team after Cleveland.
Once he was plagued with concussions, his production really suffered. Both MoMass and Robo were never planed to be the star, The were your grind it out reliable receivers helping a #1. I wonder what happen to Robo after year 2. It was like he given up. I was a firm believer these two would have been great complements to a receiver such as Blackmond.
In 2009, Browns needed everything and had no round three pick. Kokinis reached for sure. He tried fixing everything and not well prepared. If I had to guess, he had a list of players who were gobbled up quickly. When it came to the second, these guys were on his list but further down. Kokinis needed help he was in over his head.
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I'm sorry... I didn't know I had to explain the obvious Eotab. Let's see, drafted in 2009 and up-to-date only has 118 recs and 1745 yards. A 450 yard average per season. Okay yeah, that is "doing something" he had decent hands, I'll give you that one - but what good are hands when your feet can't get you open? He was always single team, and no defense really ever had to account or adjust for him. Josh Gordon has what, 50 receptions and 805 yards or so in ONE SINGLE ROOKIE season. I think the picture is painted quite clearly. He couldn't even do anything when DA/Edwards was on fire b/c he can't get open. I can remember Chansi Stuckey being more a threat than MoMass. Nevertheless, as you said, no big deal the kid gone. If he lights it up in Jax, I won't have any issues eating my words. He never lit it up here, and I have a strong prediction his failing career will carry over to Jax... I mean heck, with Blackmon and Cecil and they signed Jordan Shipley if my memory serves me right - MoMass might just be a training camp push to see who'll be depth and may not even play another snap.
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Couldn't read coverages to save his lift
That poor lift.  (Sorry, just had to)
Couch was overrated by many, and underrated by just as many. He was never as good as he was supposed to be, but also wasn't as bad as some made him out to be. He was a so-so QB on a team in need of a superstar. he had a lot of junk around him. He only played 5 years in Cleveland, and it was the injury to his arm that ended his career as much as anything else. If Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn found jobs in the NFL, the fat superior Tim Couch would have as well, if he'd been healthy.
Couch wasn't All Pro, Pro Bowl, or even top half of the league quality ..... but he was a guy who could push the ball down the field, and could create some big plays. He played behind some suspect lines. He certainly didn't have strong receivers, or support from a strong running game.
He is a guy who could have been an Alex Smith type. He could never have been the guy to carry a team, but he could make throws, and if used in a limited fashion, as Smith was, IMO, he could have been effective.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I can't believe a thread on MoMass is going to two pages.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I'm sorry... I didn't know I had to explain the obvious Eotab.
Let's see, drafted in 2009 and up-to-date only has 118 recs and 1745 yards. A 450 yard average per season. Okay yeah, that is "doing something" he had decent hands, I'll give you that one - but what good are hands when your feet can't get you open? He was always single team, and no defense really ever had to account or adjust for him.
Dawg, you need to set the stat sheet down. Do you recall what Browns offense was keyed around in 09 and 10? Do you remember the bashing Daboll got running the ball? Both MoMass and Robo were very good run blockers. Do you also recall he played for a different QB (Delhome, Wallace, Quinn, McCoy, Anderson) every three games his first two years? Couldn't get open? Which of the QB's listed above threw accurately? If he couldn't get open, how did MoMass earn a starting job from two different head coaches and three different offensive coordinators? If he was as bad as you say, why did two HC's not waive him and get a FA?
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I'm sorry bugs, but if DA could make BE look good and take himself to the probowl, DA could have likely made MoMass look good.
Like I said, he just can't get open. Yes that is a list of some sucky QB's, noooooooooooo doubt about it - but even a sucky QB is likely to find an open target. There are reasons they get paid millions todo so. MoMass is just not a target that any QB would appreciate. IMO I think Delhomme appreciate MoMass and the Delhomme to MoMass connection was the best MoMass had here, and even that wasn't all that much to get excited about.
Maybe I have some blinders on, but i've watched MoMass and I just don't think he's been an effective weapon. Not even demanding of a double team ever. Not even demanded much attention ever. Rather people would like or want to admit, our WR core is better giving younger guys a chance cause MoMass has a more than fair chance to show he could be productive.
All JMO.
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]if DA could make BE look good
It was the other way around.
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]if DA could make BE look good
It was the other way around.
Then MoMass should have made DA look GREAT then, if he were so good of a WR...
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Sorry no insult intended.
But this: Quote:
I think the picture is painted quite clearly. He couldn't even do anything when DA/Edwards was on fire b/c he can't get open.
As I said Ignorance is no excuse - You do realize he joined in 2009 2 years after this supposed IMAGINARY happening you wish to use in your debate.
As I said you have a couple of stats...but no logic.
Sorry Dawg...this is over. I won't embarrass you any further n I would strongly advise for you not to carry on this discussion. 
And yeah I know...mean old Eotab...but you went n said MY OPINION had no validity...over n done with. I don't mind a difference of opinion with some logical explanation n quite often both opinions have "SOME" validity. But I don't care if you singled me out or DID NOT...you said what you said about my opinion...back it up at least.  catch you at a better moment.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Mo Mass No Mas No Mas 
GO BROWNS!
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Eotab, i'm sorry but your full of yourself dude... You keep talking like a fool with this "logic" stuff, but explain to me why this MoMass is such a probowl caliber WR as you see him as instead of preaching a bunch of rhetoric. You'll find many people despises MoMass, so you're argument on why he's good should be entertaining to me, as' well with others. Heh same old Eotab as the other board. Cool until someone disagrees with his "masterful" advice and mindsets. Well guess what dude? READ THE FREAKING THREAD, NOT ANYONE CARES MOMASS IS GONE AND HARDLY ANY THINKS HE DID ANYTHING GOOD/PROVEN. Time to get real before you act like an ignorant baby cause someone doesn't agree with you. Good day to you sir.
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Massaquoi signed with the Jaguars.
Obviously they didn't learn with Robiski. 
Didn't Northcutt go there too?
Yeah, but don't lump him in with MoMass and Robiskie.
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Eotab, i'm sorry but your full of yourself dude.
usually how a debate ends from a loser...
And you got one big set of gall...you are the one who state YOUR n ONLY YOUR OPINION is Correct n you needed no facts logic or discussion about it...then you come up with that statement when you look silly talking about how bad he did in 2007 when he was still in college not with DA n BE
I love it when you are so wrong... and you will never see me discuss a subject n say this is the way it is without any presentation of football...just anyone who disagrees with me is a dummy cause I say so...which basically is what you DID...then have the gall to say I'm full of myself that I took exception to that kind of discussion on a subject where I stated that there was some good from MoMass. You come back with anyone who says that is a dummy or doesn't know anything...but yeah I'm the arrogant one. Give me a break. You got the last word...which I'm sure will be void of Football discussion - considering your football discussion was void of it as well  but I'm sure it will be all about arrogance n this n that...anything but football. Maybe you can tell me again that the PROOF is how he didn't produce while DA n BE were lighting it up on Fire....Of course he was a Sophmore in College.  otay you got me on that one
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I'm sorry bugs, but if DA could make BE look good and take himself to the probowl, DA could have likely made MoMass look good.
You lost me with this. How was DA gonna make MoMass look good when DA missed half the season and BE was gone after 4 games?
#gmstrong
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I have to say that reading these threads becomes a lesson in futility sometimes. EO never called MoMass a "probowl caliber" player. He merely states that the kid improved every year. Frankly all I ever hear about WR's coming out of college is that they aren't going football speed till year three. Injuries and concussions would have more than slowed that down as having so many head injuries that early in his career HAD to make him timid going across the middle. Sad thing is that he seemed better and more solid last season before of all things a HAMSTRING injury. Luckily not a concussion but something else to slow him down. I picture him as a Joe J type of player if his career ever gets back on track.
As for me I didn't love or hate him, just wished he would catch the ball. I wish him well wherever he ends up as he was never a locker room trouble and he worked hard for the Browns. As others said, it wasn't his fault he was strapped to a 2nd round expectancy tag...blame that fiasco on Mangini.
Who let the Dawgs out???
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How exactly how I am wrong?
I thought I did saying two HC's and three OC's disagree with your assessment. They all made MoMass a starter.
I said he is a good receiver not great...good. I went further saying MoMass would compliment a #1 receiver. You do realize MoMass is up against the #1 CB, so he needs an accurate QB. MoMass is not known for speed but catching the ball in tight spaces. We shall see how MoMass and Blackmon work together with a mediocre QB.
Why has MoMass fallen from grace today? He is injury prone. Browns did the right thing and let MoMass walk they need dependability.
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How exactly how I am wrong? Again you are just oozing with rhetoric talk. Anyway i'm going to end is this cause honestly, reading your comments are just boring.
The BE huge year was what, 2007, and 2008 he slumped but came close to 1000 yard season. I just meant that MoMass had an exact chance of going up against a defense's #2 corner and etc b/c they would be respecting BE, which ended up having a horrid season anyway. But that is all I meant by it.
But anyway to make you feel better. I am a loser, I was wrong and MoMass should have went to the ProBowl cause he is the best WR in the game. Why Banner didn't resign him is beyond me. How stupid of them, right Eotab?
OK ...... Massaquoi was in Cleveland ffrom 2009 to 2012.
Anderson played 8 games in 2009. He went to Arizona in 2010. Brady Quinn also played 8 games in 2009. He was traded to Denver in 2010 for Hillis. Neither QB was effective. Braylon Edwards also played 4 games in Cleveland in 2009. After his 2nd arrest, he was traded to the Jets. Further, Winslow was traded prior to the 2009 season.
So in Massaquoi's first season, he had a split QB position, no Winslow, and Edwards gone after 4 games.
I don't see where he was the #2 to anyone at that point.
He had 624 yards receiving. The next receiver? Jerome Harrison with 220. No other receiver that year had 200 yards receiving. Edwards had 139 yards receiving for the Browns in 2009.
In 2010, we had Massaquoi, Cribbs, Stuckey, and Hillis .... and thank goodness we added Ben Watson. That was hardly a murderer's row of talent there. Robiske and Moore added about 300 in receiving yards each as well.
At QB we had Delhomme, Wallace, and a rookie Colt McCoy at QB. Not exactly a recipe for success for a young WR.
Massaquoi would have been considered the #1 receiver for this team for both of his 1st 2 seasons, at the very least. He was ill suited to that role, especially given the QBs we had, and the overall lack of talent at the other receiving spots.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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but... but... everybody hates him so there's my proof. Everybody hates him.
#gmstrong
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Edwards was only arrested once while with Cleveland.
And I think Massaquoi had the potential to be a #2 in the NFL, but that wasn't in Cleveland and I don't think he has that chance any longer.
I can't speak to the man's work ethic, but it didn't really shine through on the field.
We have officially moved past what is quite possibly the worst second round draft in NFL history.
David Veikune, Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi, we hardly knew ye.
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LB...it had nothing to do with right or wrong on the subject matter.
It was YOU who stated your OPINION was the only correct one n all others that were Wrong...I could care less about your opinion...you are entitled to it. I do take exception that you without any explanation set your OPINION as the only one that could be taken seriously. Then you go and state that I do that...lol  when I wouldn't stand for it. It had nothing to do with your opinion even though it was incorrect  it was the way you set up your opinion as the only ONE. If you are going to be angry with me at least get it right on my purpose of posting the way I did. had nothing really to do with MoMass - Players who no longer are Browns I don't really care too much about them.
I can care less about the PERCEPTION of my football. I am secure with that knowledge and I am always willing to learn. For a guy being attacked for his opinion being his way or the highway...I sure as heck say MY BAD when I am corrected or if somebody can convince me with Football that I could be incorrect. I don't mean to BITE I don't come here to Fight or attack. But one of us came across with IT MY OPINION that is the ONLY CORRECT ONE...n it wasn't me! Later n I hold no ill will to you. I won't even remember this discussion a month from now...hopefully you will not either. Enjoy! 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Quote:
Edwards was only arrested once while with Cleveland.
And I think Massaquoi had the potential to be a #2 in the NFL, but that wasn't in Cleveland and I don't think he has that chance any longer.
I can't speak to the man's work ethic, but it didn't really shine through on the field.
We have officially moved past what is quite possibly the worst second round draft in NFL history.
David Veikune, Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massaquoi, we hardly knew ye.
Maybe it was only once with Cleveland. All I know is that it was twice in a relatively short time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Both MoMass and Robo were never planed to be the star, The were your grind it out reliable receivers helping a #1. I wonder what happen to Robo after year 2.
You don't draft them in the 2nd round if you don't have hope of them being solid starters. Especially 2 of them. Even with Kokinis draft skills, no way he used 2 2nd rounders on compimentary WRs. That means he hoped one of them to be #3 on the depth chart? That's beyond his level of poor drafting. He thought he was getting his #1 and #2. He was way wrong.
In contrast, Heckert brought in 2 extremely raw rookies in Gordon and Little. Both over a year removed from football. Little was a converted RB, didn't get a training camp with the lockout. Neither had hardly any college time at WR. Both came right in and looked better than Mo or RoBo ever did. If RoBO/Mass were reliable, Heckert wouldn't have used 3 draft picks at WR and these raw rookies wouldn't have come in and outshined guys that had been here awhile.
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You don't draft them in the 2nd round if you don't have hope of them being solid starters. Especially 2 of them. Even with Kokinis draft skills, no way he used 2 2nd rounders on compimentary WRs. That means he hoped one of them to be #3 on the depth chart? That's beyond his level of poor drafting. He thought he was getting his #1 and #2. He was way wrong.
Let's do a little trip down memory lane. Mangini had only 1 reliable receiver BE who was the #1 receiver in 2009. He drafted two receivers who had good hands and can block. Last I checked #2 receiver can be a solid starter.
What do you mean you don't draft a complementary receiver in the second round? Heckert drafted Little in the second round. While in Philly, he drafted Maclin in the first. I guess Ozzie Newsome was way wrong too drafting Torry Smith in the second round to compliment Boldin last year and Jacoby Jones this season.
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Newsome didn't draft Jacoby Jones, if that's what you're saying.
In any case, whether it was due to injury or coaching or lack of other quality receivers, MoMass contributed very little during his time in Cleveland...more games with 0 or 1 receptions than games with 3+ receptions, and no 100+ yard games since his rookie season. I can't say that I'll miss him.
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Lol, no hard feelings Eotab. We are all here to throw out our opinion(s). =]
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Quote:
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You don't draft them in the 2nd round if you don't have hope of them being solid starters. Especially 2 of them. Even with Kokinis draft skills, no way he used 2 2nd rounders on compimentary WRs. That means he hoped one of them to be #3 on the depth chart? That's beyond his level of poor drafting. He thought he was getting his #1 and #2. He was way wrong.
Let's do a little trip down memory lane. Mangini had only 1 reliable receiver BE who was the #1 receiver in 2009. He drafted two receivers who had good hands and can block. Last I checked #2 receiver can be a solid starter.
What do you mean you don't draft a complementary receiver in the second round? Heckert drafted Little in the second round. While in Philly, he drafted Maclin in the first. I guess Ozzie Newsome was way wrong too drafting Torry Smith in the second round to compliment Boldin last year and Jacoby Jones this season.
FWIW, when I see the word complimentary, I don't think of starters. When referring to complimentary receivers, I think they compliment the starting WRs. Someone like Benjamin. Thrown in to stretch the field on certain plays. Either way, Mangini drafted MoMass and Robiskie to be starters. Fail.
Little is not meant to be a complementary player. Neither is Gordon. They are meant to start regardless of who is deemed #1 or #2. These aren't complimentary positions or roles on an offense.
Mangini did have another legit receiver in Winslow, although injury prone. Koke found out he got traded reading the bottom line of ESPN.
But we needed character guys!!
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/07/13 12:36 PM.
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Mangini's downfall - and I think the 2009 draft is a great example - is that he desperately wanted to be Bill Belichick, but he put the cart before the horse, and it was more of a rudimentary impression than an emulation.
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Some guys just wish to believe what they want...not just you...just about everybody, I try to not to but initially I do so as well!
But this Mangini n the terrible picks of 09. Lets look at some facts.
1. Mangini was putting together an entirely new organization - from soup to nuts...including in house employees n restructure of Conditioning rooms to include stretch areas as well as lifting. Even moving the MURAL from the lobby that was for show for visitors to the back where the Players could see it.
2. Mangini was putting together a new O system n D system with all new staffs - was there one staff that was kept from RAC?
3. Mangini was reviewing film of all the players to evaluate who can play within their systems n what they were going to need from FA n draft.
4. So his right arm PERSONNEL guy was Kokinos. Who's job at Ravens was for knowledge on all NFL players to look into possibly FA acquisitions. Mangini had complete trust in Kokinos for the draft evaluations n preparations even if Mangini would wish to be a Micro Management guy it would have to be in future seasons - this first season he would have to rely heavily on his RH guy.
5. Fact in mid season Kokinos was fired...WHAT GM GETS FIRED AFTER 6-8 games into their first season. Without committing a crime??? Well maybe the crime was his 09 draft unfortunately. Meanwhile a lot of media HATED MANGINI...so they print this n that about him Micro Managing, BB wannabee, etc. etc.
I do know more than you think regarding this subject. Not a lot more. But forget about knowing any inside stuff. Just common sense states that it is physically impossible for Mangini to think about running the draft like a tyrant. Sure the coaching staff had some say in the "Position of needs" but trusted the Board made by Kokinos. 2nd round the board showed DV way up there for their needs of an OLB? I'm sure they said OLB rather than RB as positional need on their list.
I don't the exact parameters of the draft n War Room. What I do know is Common Sense says that Mangini had minimal preparation duties for that 2009 draft. He had to trust his "GUY" at least for that first season!
JMHO
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I don't think my opinion of him attempting to emulate Belichick was one fostered by a bitter media.
He attempted to instill a strict, egoless locker room filled with cerebral veterans and special teamers who overachieved. Sound like anyone?
His problem was that he lacked the results and foundation necessary to have such a situation. Hence why I said cart before the horse.
I don't claim to know anything in regards to who was responsible for what on draft day. The facts of the matter lead me to believe that in the end, Kokinis was fired for being more of a lackey than a general manager.
Usually guys don't get fired 6-8 games in for botching a draft.
Either way one believes it went down, the '09 draft was the death knell for the regime. Mangini wasn't given the world to work with, but he did have some assets, and he squandered them.
I don't know that any rebuilding regime can recover from four picks in the first two rounds resulting in only a Pro Bowl center.
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5. Fact in mid season Kokinos was fired...WHAT GM GETS FIRED AFTER 6-8 games into their first season. Without committing a crime??? Well maybe the crime was his 09 draft unfortunately. Meanwhile a lot of media HATED MANGINI...so they print this n that about him Micro Managing, BB wannabee, etc. etc.
Sorry EO, have to call BS here.
Please read this article for pretty evident proof of WHO was running the personnel in Cleveland in 2009
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/A-lesson-learned-in-Cleveland.html
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I wonder who the player in question was? Quote:
Then, as we agents have to do during the fast-moving free agency period, I told him I would only send the player to Cleveland if they were 99-percent certain they were going to sign him at the numbers I requested.
Really? The player isn't even going to visit unless the team is going to give him everything he wants? I would guess that maybe a player is going to be a main target if he gets a 1st day invite ...... but "we get everything we want or we don't even visit"? That just strikes me as kinda odd. I'm sure that a team has a pretty good idea id a player is going to fit the general parameters of the defense, but the coach has to find out what they are willing to do within the defense, how they see their role, if the player can understand his role within the defense, if he fits from a discipline aspect, if he can get along with the coaching staff, and so on.
Plus, if I recall correctly, Mangini had final say on player decisions in Cleveland ..... so why would Kokinis agree to such a thing without first clearing it with Mangini? That would be a massive overstepping of his power and boundaries.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Player was CB Jabari Greer, a pretty good starting CB since 2007 now...it's not about getting what he wants, but he didn't even get an official offer to start the talk.
The point though remains, this agent told firsthand that
"The Browns were obviously never on the same page with this particular free agent and had yet to formulate a way to work together and make decisions. Another agent I spoke to had a similar experience. The signs were there from the beginning that Kokinis had little power and that the team was somewhat rudderless."
This was months after both were hired by the Browns....it's pretty obvious to me that Kokinis wanted Greer, but Mangini didn't. Mangini obviously preferred Hank Poteat, Robert Royal etc...Kokinis was never allowed to do his job and that's why was let go and went back to the Ravens, who welcomed him back with open arms
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I dunno. Greer would have been a nice addition, in retrospect. It depends on what his price was at the time.
As far as the Mangini/Kokinis relationship, it's obvious that it was a mess. I don't pretend to know what happened.
However, Mangini is the past. He had 1 year of player decisions. He was really no better and no worse than Savage was before him ..... except that Savage had a much longer tenure. Overall the team was a mess both before and after Mangini.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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Eotab and Bugs, after years of defending Momass and Robo, when it was clear they weren't good receivers, you guys should just eat your crow, and admit you were WRONG on your assessment.
I still recall phrases like we have the best young receivers in the league, that we had no need for a veteran WR, no need for a #1, etc... when it was clear to all (except to our FO and coaches) that those two were BUSTS.
Just to finish and say that both Momass and Robo couldn't catch, the great hands was a highlight mystification, they both had % off passes caught on the low 40's, which is the sign of a bad WR.
All the luck to Momass with the Jaguars.
Last edited by rastanplan; 04/08/13 07:23 AM.
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Quote:
However, Mangini is the past. He had 1 year of player decisions. He was really no better and no worse than Savage was before him ..... except that Savage had a much longer tenure. Overall the team was a mess both before and after Mangini.
Sorry, you are being to generous to Mangini, the guy failed miserably. If I can recall it correctly, this was going to be our great draft, we traded most of our talent for draft picks, and in the end presented us with this draft. Mangini couldn't/can't spot or develop talent, and this is what killed him.
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BS??? poor choice of words.
So this is the "PROOF" an Agent. I know agents never twist the truth to make them look good. Sounds like we were disorganized. Sounds like the New GM did not communicate with the HC who did have final say of what he wanted. Possibly he knew the individual player n new he didn't fit his system. All we know is that this player had A GOOD GAME Week 8??? WR???
Give me an article telling me how Mangini took over the draft - not some PISSED OFF AGENT - like I said Mangini got no love from the media. So all that I stated is negated cause you found this article that was made by a PO'd Agent a very trusted source.
Sorry I'll believe my source that was in house over an article on by a ANGELIC AGENT who was by his words pissed off at Mangini. Again you give me an article n say call BS here.
Meanwhile - you did not even touch on the FACT (not some BS article) that Kokinos got fired mid season..what GM ever got fired Mid-Season? But it was all Mangini's fault according to this UNBIASED SOURCE n the Media who gave him a fair break...lol
So don't say call BS with one article that really proved nothing just speculate why the deal was not done. It was not secret that Mangini was the head guy...I'm saying he had to rely on Kokinos...so he came to him with a FA totally irrelevant to his plan.
What I said was that Kokinos made the board...even if Mangini made the final say on pics he could not have put a lot of his own evaluations into the draft - not in 2009 the first year in the build up. It just doesn't make sense.
??? I don't know for sure. I just know what was on the plate n what he was doing during those first few months. No BS...just doing my own investigation n common sense on the facts. I don't trust Agents but then again we know an agent will never lie or bend the truth...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Quote:
Really? The player isn't even going to visit unless the team is going to give him everything he wants?
Yeah, I can see that for a high enough level guy. But you know, if the team doesn't like it, they can always "just say no"
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Eotab and Bugs, after years of defending Momass and Robo, when it was clear they weren't good receivers, you guys should just eat your crow, and admit you were WRONG on your assessment.
I still recall phrases like we have the best young receivers in the league, that we had no need for a veteran WR, no need for a #1, etc... when it was clear to all (except to our FO and coaches) that those two were BUSTS.
Just to finish and say that both Momass and Robo couldn't catch, the great hands was a highlight mystification, they both had % off passes caught on the low 40's, which is the sign of a bad WR.
All the luck to Momass with the Jaguars.
You're right! I guess Holmgren, Shurmur, and Heckert were even bigger fools. They not only kept MoMass for two more years they made him a starter! Two head coaches and three OC's need to consult with you on receiver talent evaluation. For a guy who is a bust, how in the world does he make starter let alone the roster.
I'll wave the white flag on Robo. Something happen to him during his second year, He earned the starting job, and by mid season given up. He didn't do anything in Jacksonville to want a starting job.
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