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Pretty much as discussed in the many threads here so I don't blame if the refs delete this. Pretty much the same paint on the same wall... "Posted by Mike Florio on April 10, 2013, 3:23 PM EDT The team-by-team draft needs continue with a franchise that is once again hitting the reset button, an exercise that happens far too frequently for the Cleveland Browns. This could be the last time the house gets cleaned out for a while, for better or worse. “Better” will be more likely if the team makes good use of its draft picks. Here’s where they need to focus if they hope to avoid getting worse. Cornerback: As the NFL skews even more sharply toward the pass, teams need quality cornerbacks. The Browns currently have only one in Joe Haden, and the team has shown no inclination to bring back 14-game starter Sheldon Brown. Whether it’s Dee Milliner or Desmond Trufant with the sixth overall pick or others coming later, the Browns need to spend at least one pick on a cornerback. Quarterback: With a new owner, new CEO, new G.M., and new coach, the Browns surely are interested in at least exploring the possibility of adding a new quarterback. Unless Geno Smith falls into their laps, the Browns would have to wait until round three at the earliest, given that their second-round pick was used last July on receiver Josh Gordon. Receiver: Even with Gordon, a pair of failed second-round picks from 2009 (Mohamed Massaqoui and Brian Robiskie) have left the cupboard more bare than it should be. More depth and, perhaps more importantly, increased competition will help. Linebacker: Outside linebacker is fine, but the inside linebacker position got weaker when the team recently cut Chris Gocong. So it would make sense to add at least one body at that area of the roster. Safety: Usama Young is recently gone, too. Which means that the Browns need help at safety. Tight end: Sure, there are five tight ends on the roster. But coach Rob Chudzinski has an affinity for the position. And none of the tight ends on the roster will be confused for Tony Gonzalez. Kicker: The only kicker on the roster is Brandon Bogotay. Enough said." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/10/team-needs-cleveland-browns-3/
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I would look to improve our guards before our WR unit.
I'm not saying we're set at the position, but I don't think it needs addressed with any urgency.
We do need a QB, most likely, but, again, I don't see any rush. Weeden deserves another season. If he bombs - or is even average - he'll be probably be gone, which is what I anticipate, but it isn't set in stone.
I have a gut feeling that QB from Arizona will be a Brown. No rhyme or reason to back that up, and I haven't seen enough of him to know whether I'd like it or not.
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IMO,If this list of needs is in descending order of importance then Florio is way off base. CB, FS and TE are all more important than QB. From my bias OLB is more important the OG or QB. If you combine need, draft position and depth of prospects then I would suggest OLB, CB, TE and FS as higher priorities than any other positions for this franchise.The Browns have to come away with guys who can contribute significant playing time at CB, FS, and TE. By the same token, OLB is not a luxury, pressure on the QB can't be overvalued.
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You don't think Sheard and Kruger make OLB a lesser need?
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I really hate this line of reasoning ..... Quote:
Linebacker: Outside linebacker is fine, but the inside linebacker position got weaker when the team recently cut Chris Gocong. So it would make sense to add at least one body at that area of the roster.
Safety: Usama Young is recently gone, too. Which means that the Browns need help at safety.
With this reasoning, if I were on the team last year, and cut this year, then whatever position I played would be made weaker. 
Cutting a bad player is not a loss.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You don't think Sheard and Kruger make OLB a lesser need?
That is a fair question. My answer is no. Here's my reasoning, for what it's worth. Everything I have read says that Kruger needs a real pass rushing threat on the opposite side for him to excel. Sheard might be that threat but that is unproven at this point. Sheard did produce less sacks this past season than he did as a rookie. There could be any number of reasons for this. However, he will experience a complete change of position this year and may or may not transition successfully to the OLB role. Hopefully his play takes off as an OLB. I have said, with almost the same obsession that DjangoBrown has argued the over 30 year old FA issue; pressure on the QB is more important than pass coverage. With the current rules in the league favoring the offense coverage will ultimately break down given the advantage of time. The defensive counter to time is pressure not coverage. Hence, OLB.
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I am not sure you can truly give an answer. If anything, I say Browns need to look at the QB position the most. Without it this team will never win.
I feel we need to see this team do something to see where they stand. Any speculation of need is looking back at prior years. This coaching staff is completely different.
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But because we have Sheard and Kruger OLB is not our most pressing need. They at least have the potential to play well at their positions.
We have one viable corner when we need at least three.
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Cutting a bad player is not a loss.
No, it's not and nobody's desputing that or wishes those guys back...but sitting on 30mil of cap and doing nothing about it doesn't make it better, does it?
Meanwhile, decent to good veteran players get signed for next to nothing. Ravens scooping up McCLain, Bengals looking at Dansby and Rhodes. We're talking decent vet starters with years of experience at positions of need...while our guys are thumb twirling in the office and getting all excited looking at the "future possibilities" of those 30mil
It doesn't make much sense to me, but maybe Banner's sabermetrics calculations told him the answer to all questions is 42 and he knows what it means 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Here's the dilemma though ....... we have a bunch of young players. How many so-so players do we sign in free agency to stall their development?
I agree that we should fill holes, but spending money just for the sake of spending money makes little sense to me. I like some of the young talent on this team, and want to see them develop. I don't want to win up cutting them in the interest of signing some other teams scrap. Certain players can fill roles for us, but we shouldn't bring in players just for the sake of doing so. There should be a plan, and it appears that there is one .... even if you and/or I may not always agree with it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Here's the dilemma though ....... we have a bunch of young players. How many so-so players do we sign in free agency to stall their development?
I agree that we should fill holes, but spending money just for the sake of spending money makes little sense to me.
McCLain got 700k, you consider that "for the sake of spending"? If we offered him the same contract we offered Groves (2years, just over 2mil), he'd be a Brown now...and that's far from "spending just to spend", that's as LOW risk as it gets..if he's a hack, cut him and no harm. If in TC you see he's not better than JMJ, cut him...what's the problem? If he's better: Boom, better production on the field for little money...and I could care less about the hurt feelings or development of a mid 4th rounder in his 2nd season, he's still the backup and will see plenty of action and could take over at some point like Ellerbe or Kruger or all those Steelers-LB do....develop them, yes....but develop them behind the scenes if you have the luxury to do so....and we could, we just don't do it
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I like some of the young talent on this team, and want to see them develop. I don't want to win up cutting them in the interest of signing some other teams scrap. Certain players can fill roles for us, but we shouldn't bring in players just for the sake of doing so. There should be a plan, and it appears that there is one .... even if you and/or I may not always agree with it.
I like the young talent too, but the Browns aren't a farm team, we are a NFL team. I understood the 2010 and 2011 offseasons, but already started criticizing Heckert for doing less than I wanted last offseason and I was very vocal about adding pieces this offseason well before we knew Heckert was going to go. We're in a situation where we have to fill the holes the draft approach hasn't yielded starters or at least guys who flashed that ability, most notably no2 CB, FS and ILB (not a huge fan of JMJ as you know), but that need is ALL on the switch and the byproduct of it. I don't want to sign 10 FAs...I wanted 4-5 solid starters and got only 2 and I ask myself why? Is no2 CB or a starting FS less a need than pass rush? Maybe in priority and I'd agree, but the others are still needs right? So do something about it...we've thrown late rounders at it hoping to stick, but none has yet, so don't waste the window time of the prime players that you've hit on by continuing to approach it like that when you have all that money to get competent starers in...it made sense when we had nothing everywhere, but not anymore...are we a AAA farm team?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Meanwhile, decent to good veteran players get signed for next to nothing. Ravens scooping up McCLain, Bengals looking at Dansby and Rhodes. We're talking decent vet starters with years of experience at positions of need...while our guys are thumb twirling in the office and getting all excited looking at the "future possibilities" of those 30mil
We obviously will be picky about bringing in anyone 30+. And I for one don't want them either right now.
I don't think you fully grasp what a top notch Salary Cap guy does.
It's NEVER about THIS year. These guys have this thing plotted out (As best you can) for future years also.
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I don't think you fully grasp what a top notch Salary Cap guy does.
Hmm, lemme see...manage the cap? I do also know what a GM that does both has to do...and that is field a competitive team within that cap...and that we dont do, that I know
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It's NEVER about THIS year. These guys have this thing plotted out (As best you can) for future years also.
Lol, this sentence could be the motto of the Browns...future cap is for future GMs, ask Heckert. You play...to win...the game
Would you rather constantly re-build and shy away from good players for the sake of "future cap" and "look to the future" or constantly being a contender by pushing the cap cost backwards and then eat it all in a rebuilding season or two?
Why am I even discussing this? Where is spending 2-3mil/season over 2-3 years to guys like Dansby, Rhodes, Moore, Huff etc hurting future cap space anyway? Did I ask to sign over-prized guys like Wallace, Vasquez etc? No, the irony is that many on this board wanted those guys those same posters NOW are acting as apologist for the holy "cap cost", it's hilarious.
All I'm asking for are low risk, low cost contracts to proven, veteran players that are upgrades over what we have now (not much that is) at certain positions...is that really already asking too much? Really?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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We have one viable corner when we need at least three.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Bademosi as one of the three. From what (little) I saw of him last season, I believe he has significant potential...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I agree.
And what's wrong with signing some of these veterans then drafting good players to sit behind them?
We're winning the salary cap contest...which is nearly meaningless to me.
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But because we have Sheard and Kruger OLB is not our most pressing need. They at least have the potential to play well at their positions.
We have one viable corner when we need at least three.
It was never my intention to say that OLB was the more pressing need. What I'm saying is given the higher value I place on pass rush I would be more inclined to draft a pass rusher before addressing the corner position. I think the best pass rushers, specifically OLBs, are more scarce in this draft than cornerbacks.
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Quote:
PFT’s All-Unemployed Team
Posted by Mike Wilkening on April 10, 2013, 10:51 AM EDT
AP
With almost a month of free agency in the books, here is our rundown on the best players still available at each position — a list that includes some of PFT’s top 100 free agents as of earlier in the offseason. We will update the team as events warrant.
Quarterback: Byron Leftwich.
The Seahawks’ move for Brady Quinn made a lot of sense — he was probably the best backup option left. Leftwich has a strong arm and plenty of experience but has struggled to stay healthy.
Down the road, Tim Tebow seems a solid bet to join the jobless QB ranks, and the moment he does, he becomes the X-factor of the group. Will another team give him a chance?
Running back: Ahmad Bradshaw.
Durability looms as the major concern with Bradshaw, who has had foot issues.
Fullback: Mike Cox.
Cox started 12 games in the last two seasons for Atlanta.
Wide receiver: Brandon Lloyd, Devery Henderson.
Lloyd would be a fine short-term solution for a team looking for an outside receiver. Henderson is a complementary player in the passing game, but he runs well and has missed one game in the last six seasons.
Tight end: Dallas Clark.
The best receiving option at his position still left on the market. However, he turns 34 in June.
Offensive tackle: Andre Smith, Bryant McKinnie.
Smith has a strong 2012 season but comes with injury and consistency risk. Nevertheless, the young right tackle is the best free agent available. McKinnie gets the nod over Tyson Clabo and Eric Winston on account of his long track record at left tackle. That said, McKinnie will be 34 in September, and his conditioning can be an issue.
Offensive guard: Brandon Moore, Stephen Peterman.
Moore started 137 connective games for the Jets, while Peterman played every game the last three seasons before being released by the Lions. Both can be serviceable for 2013.
Center: Dan Koppen.
Started 12 games for the AFC West-winning Broncos in 2012. Turns 34 in September.
Defensive end: Dwight Freeney, John Abraham.
They are both pass-rushing aces, but they’re on the wrong side of 30.
Defensive tackle: Sedrick Ellis, Richard Seymour.
Ellis never lived up to his first-round status in New Orleans, but he will only be 28 at the start of the season. Seymour could still help a team, but Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reported in March that it might take a lucrative deal to get the longtime standout lineman back onto the field in 2013.
Outside linebacker: Shaun Phillips, Daryl Smith.
Phillips will be 32 in May, but he notched 9.5 sacks in 2012, so it’s not as if he couldn’t be of assistance to a defense that uses 3-4 looks. Smith was limited to two games a season ago with a groin injury, but he’s the best 4-3 outside linebacker available. Age could also be a concern with Smith, who turned 31 in March. Let’s also mention James Harrison, like Phillips an interesting short-term option for a club employing a “30” front.
Inside linebacker: Karlos Dansby, Brian Urlacher.
Dansby lost his job when the Dolphins added Dannell Ellerbe, but he comes off a 134-tackle season and has a long track record of success. There’s probably still a place for him in the league, and the Bengals are meeting with him on Wednesday. Urlacher fit best in Chicago, but the door seems to have closed on his return. Besides, he’ll be 35 in May. Honorable mention goes to Nick Barnett, who has notched more than 100 tackles in every season in which he’s played even close to 16 games.
Cornerback: Antoine Winfield, Quentin Jammer.
Winfield is reportedly getting a good deal of attention in free agency; the ex-Viking is tough and skilled. Reliability and availability are Jammer’s strengths at this stage of the game. He’s made 161 career starts and missed just four games in 11 NFL seasons, all with San Diego.
Safety: Kerry Rhodes, Charles Woodson.
This position was thinned further Tuesday when Dawan Landry agreed with the Jets. Rhodes, who intercepted four passes a season ago, has shown a playmaking flair throughout his career, but he will be 31 this season. Woodson can play multiple secondary spots but has said his phone isn’t exactly ringing off the hook just yet.
Placekicker: Steven Hauschka.
Only 27 years old, Hauschka connected on 24-of-27 field goals in 2012 for Seattle.
Punter: Brian Moorman.
Bounced back in 2012 stint with Cowboys, posting a 38.9-yard net average in 12 games.
Return specialist: Josh Cribbs.
Cribbs, who had knee surgery earlier in the offseason, can be a difference-making returner and coverage player.
I think Lloyd is a very reliable WR, and would work good across front Gordon going deep.
I'm surprised we haven't went and gotten at least one FA OG.
Winfield is either going to Seattle or back to Minny, but he's a guy I'd love to sign and be able to have mentor Joe (and Milliner)
I'm really surprised Kerry Rhodes isn't on this team already... Maybe they are waiting till after the draft?
They must have some sort of plan for CB, because there's no reason we should of been this innactive with the FA CB market the way it was...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c: A few things--- --guard, I respect you as a poster, but I really don't think OLB should be our focus. I am happy w/Kruger and Sheard there. I think we have a greater need at ILB. ---Speaking of ILBer, I think we should have taken a flyer on Rolando McClain. I know he has been pretty much a bust in the NFL and he must be a head case, but he once was highly regarded and said to be a sure-fire star in the league. I think his skill set is better suited to playing ILBer in a 3-4 as opposed to the 4-3 Mike. He doesn't have sideline-to-sideline range. He can't cover guys one on one. I do think he is a force in a limited area and is better suited to playing zone coverage in a smaller area. He was cheap. Young. If he continued the idiot act, cut him. No big loss. ---Banner not geting the salary cap? LMAO......he is highly regarded in NFL circles of being a master of the cap. It was his handling of the cap that allowed Philly to remain as a contender year after year after year. But, yet we are to believe that some poster on this board understands how to use the salary cap better than Banner does. --Available free agents: I know Rhodes has some talent. I also know that he has been labeled as an undisciplined player that gives up big plays. I always liked his talent and physicality. I imagine he would be here if Horton really thought he was worth bringing in. They were together in Arizona the last couple of years. Antoine Winfield is a guy I always liked. He could give us a year or two while we develop a younger corner. I doubt we bring him in because he is older and there are many suiters---meaning he won't have to settle for a low-ball offer.
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Quote:
I would look to improve our guards before our WR unit.
Totally agree.
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All Pro
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If we can draft quality starters at CB and FS, I'll be quite pleased. Hoping they can get their version of Haden/Ward. An ILB would be nice too, will be hard to get all 3 though.
TE, FB, K, P...still hate the Dawson move, but I think we can get serviceable guys late/after the draft at these spots. TE might be a weak spot until next year.
WR not a pressing need, imo. Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Norwood, Nelson, best squad we've had in years. QB...Hope for Weeden, but keep drafting until we get The Man.
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j/c
I know the Wannabee GMs would like for us to bring in 10 more FA to fill all the ??? possible needs with Band Aids who might not actually fit the puzzle pieces.
We had 36 on our 53 roster last year that were from 2010,11 n 12 - at times we had 9 starters that were Rookies.
What this author n many on the board neglects to acknowledge is the natural PROGRESS of young players. No not all 36.
But we are going by Last year or Career Stats of certain positions.
TE...we got two without Stats to note...we expect both or at least one to step up in their Progress - nothing set in stone...but either one could (??? COULD) become a better option then any FA we can pick up.
FS...we do not consider Gipson who was a UDFA Rookie last year - I know the Browns could not be so lucky to get an ACTUAL starter from the UDFA ranks.
CB...is a tough transition. We got 3 Skrine, Wade n Bademosi (who also can vie for a Safety position) who will progress. Who knows to what degree.
ILB...we have JMJ (Heckerts first LB draft pick), Acho, Carder, all who have 3-4 size...Fort, Robertson Moten...all young - is it possible one of them just one of these young LBs step up n more than grown into the Starter role???
OG - yes, we can upgrade our Interior but "NEED" is not there n upgrades might be more difficult than some dawgs think.
WR - again Gordon n Little don't have much to speak of in STATS...put them on Broncos, Pats, Texans, Saints I guarantee you all the Bozo's n Talking Head's would be raving about them as a great young tandem in the works. Our Air Stats have sucked...and I don't think it is at the fault of our WRs.
QB...most Important need to be established. Weeden can progress but this position is so so important also Weeden's age pretty much mandates us making some investment I just don't think it will be at the overall #6 position. Best 3rd round or later n groom the kid.
All I'm saying is of course we cannot think all these STAT LESS needs will be filled by positive progress of these young players. But I'm seriously thinking (taking of my Brown n Orange glasses) more than one of these positions will be filled more than Competently by the progress of the young players we got here. Add the young 2nd tier FA in the mix also TE, CB,
Draft - OLB, QB, CB, OG, TE, FS - BPA is one of them - by all means pull the TRIGGER don't NOT PICK THEM cause we think we don't have the NEED.
OLB just like a 4-3 D w/DE - you cannot have enough of them. Sheard we cannot rely on his transition being complete. If he does make the transition n we pick a stud OLB - it only can be a positive situation. Same w/QB n any of the other position.
As for missed opportunities at some FA...ILB McClain...I really like Alabama n how can anyone not follow them cause of their College Prowess - I thought he would be a great one. Missed by a lot don't know why??? Is it just the environment w/Raiders? will the Ravens w/o Lewis n Reed as veteran leaders be able to turn McClain's career around?
The grass is always greener on the other side. Our recent History 99-12 Sucks. But that does not mean that our 2013 roster must SUCK!
36...very young guys progressing...All 36 becoming NFL starters? Of course not but enough competition for each position to have one or more step up!
Note we will also add 6 more in the draft plus some UDFA rookies. You only have so many IMPACT picks that you can expect to step up as Rookies - 2013 just our Overall #6. What you then do is rely on in depth studies n draft multiple youngsters or in our case add to the youngsters we already have n let the CREAM rise n win a position.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I know the Wannabee GMs would like for us to bring in 10 more FA to fill all the ??? possible needs with Band Aids who might not actually fit the puzzle pieces.
Not all the wannabe GMs do! 
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Like I said, I would have liked us to sign Huff or Rhodes as a veteran presence at S.
I actually like that signing for the Ravens more than any of the other ones they made this off-season.
As far as McClain, maybe I wasn't being clear ..... it's obvious, because we did not pursue him at all, that we did not like the player as a player on this defense. He is a big, slower LB, and that does not fit the general parameters that Horton set out of "little guys who can hit and big guys who can run".
McClain is slow. He is a machine at making tackles down the field. He has never been an impact player. He reminds me of Andra Davis or Wali Rainer in that regard. He has been a problem child. When I say spending just to spend, this is what I mean. He does not fit this defense, and is a disciplinary problem. The team obviously feels that we would be spending money just to spend it if we signed him.
As far as the secondary, the only thing I can figure at S is that Horton likes someone who is already on the team to take the FS position. The team must have decided that any of the CB available were too expensive. I would have signed one of the upper tier at each position, but I'm not in charge. Given that the team showed no hesitation in throwing around big bucks to get Bryant and Kruger, and rolled out the red carpet for Grimes, then I would assume that he was the only guy they felt was worth a huge deal at CB. Again, if none of the players available fit the team, or are worth a huge deal, then why spend just to spend?
Further, the team can carry over unused cap room to future seasons. They have to hit the cap and cash floors, but once they do that, they can carry space over. Maybe next year looks like a better free agent year? I am sure that they have mapped out free agency for the next couple of years, including likely and/or potential cuts, and so on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Further, the team can carry over unused cap room to future seasons. They have to hit the cap and cash floors, but once they do that, they can carry space over. Maybe next year looks like a better free agent year? I am sure that they have mapped out free agency for the next couple of years, including likely and/or potential cuts, and so on.
I know, because they have an excess of 14mil of roll-over from Heckert THIS offseason already, see here, we sit at 35mil under our "adjusted" cap, would be close to 20mil if not for that rollover money
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap-hit/
#gmstrong
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Thanks Vers. Your observation about the ILB position is fair. I'm not at all certain that we have long term answers at that position on the roster right now. Responding from my IPhone so I'll keep it short. Not even sure that DQ will be here a year from now.
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I have to say that when I read your posts my hope meter pegs the scale. 
#gmstrong
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j/c
I'm not a huge proponent of "spending just to spend".
I do however feel you need veteran presence in each unit. DQ does accomplish that in regards to LB'er.
But while many seem to wish to dismiss the reality, having veterans in areas such as the WR'ing core, at the G position and other areas that I would think it's really not necessary to point out.
So while I'm all for the youth movement, at some point you need some veteran leadership. On the one hand, many seemed to point out that having a new scat back was a very good thing because he could spend more time than the coaches can at helping tutor our other RB's in this new O system.
Then they tend to be in attack mode when others feel the exact same way about other units of our team. The entire "cap guru" in regards to Banner is a bit silly. Not that Banner isn't well known to be a very good cap manager, because he is.
But when we are SO FAR UNDER the cap as it stands and with so many holes to fill right now, to suggest "some posters think they know more" is just a reach and holds zero merit. There is NO question we could have done upgrades in our secondary without breaking the bank. So the cap issue simply doesn't even exist here.
As Dj has mentioned, we have TONS of room left in cap space and some pretty high caliber FA's were out there at the CB position and we simply didn't go get one. People trying to use the cap space excuse are so far off base that there simply isn't any merit there.
We have a dire need to acquire at least 2 CB's. One as a starter and one for quality depth. At least the quality depth CB could have been signed on the cheap. Now our only hope in addressing that strictly falls on the draft.
Hopefully Millner will fall to us. But even then, if either he or Haden gets injured we are in a very bad predicament. As it stands, we desperately need two CB's and a S. We have a 1st, 3rd and 4th round pick top address these three positions and need all three of them to be able to contribute in a big way, right away.
And we had plenty of room to address this without putting ourselves in any kind of cap hell. It could have been addressed easily and on the cheap compared to only a few short years ago.
Now people can make all of the excuses they wish. But our secondary is in terrible shape. And realisticly unless we can address 2 CB's and a S straight from the draft to the field of play, we blew chances to address at least 2 out of those 3 without creating anything close to a cap problem. Would they have been long term, top notch answers. Most likely not. But at least a big improvement than what we have now and an upgrade at their respective positions.
I like some of the moves this FO has made in this FA signing period. But when you are going from the 4-3 to the 3-4, you better have a solid secondary and we don't. And we did nothing of any signifigance to try to help that situation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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the lack of concern for the db's is just a head scratcher. Is Rhodes still an option at safety or did he sign elsewheres. I don't see any corner of value that would come here. Winnfield could help, but he will take less money to play for a contender.
I'm hoping at this stage to trade down a few, pick up the second round pick. Take best db available.
And you are right, one injury or adderall suspension and we are screwed.
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I think that once you get past the premier names out there that are in their prime, who are all off the market now, there isn't much worth pursuing that hard.
Most of the recognizable names out there right now all have well more than 10 season of experience and it doesn't appear that any of them are going anywhere any time soon. I think, at this point, the prudent move is to wait and see what shakes out in the Draft, then come back and fill in any remaining blanks with the free agency leftovers.
If this Draft is really as deep at CB as some folks are saying, then we probably won't need to sign any, anyway.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Quote:
the lack of concern for the db's is just a head scratcher. Is Rhodes still an option at safety or did he sign elsewheres. I don't see any corner of value that would come here. Winnfield could help, but he will take less money to play for a contender.
I'm hoping at this stage to trade down a few, pick up the second round pick. Take best db available.
And you are right, one injury or adderall suspension and we are screwed.
Geez, it's not like they didn't go out and try to get a DB.. How much time did we spend chasing Grimes. He decided to go elsewhere.. We probably could have had him with the money we could have spent but why do that?
And we did pick up a couple of guys. What we don't know is if Horton and Chud sat down looking at film and decided that Hagg, Bademosi, Skrine and Gipson are guys they feel they can work with. (I don't believe I said that LOL)
Rhodes, as of the last time I checked, was still available but I don't remember hearing that we have interest..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think that once you get past the premier names out there that are in their prime, who are all off the market now, there isn't much worth pursuing that hard.
I guess I should have clarified that.
To be a little clearer, my contention is that when the FA market opened up, there was a pretty big selection at the CB position we could have acquired. Their contracts they were signed to were much cheaper than just a few short years ago.
In looking over our team needs, I felt fairly positive they would go after a CB straight out of the gate in free agency.
As of now I agree with you. I don't even see one out there that represents quality depth.
We were told that our D personnel in the front 7 was just as well equipped to play the 3-4 as it was the 4-3.
Yet most everyone knew our secondary was in shambles, they addressed the areas they claimed were just as ready to play this D as last years D?
I was very disappointed that we didn't go out and sign a fairly high quality CB when the market was ripe. And at this point in time, we better hope they draft secondary early and often in this draft. And they better hope they're lucky enough for all of them to contribute VERY soon!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Geez, it's not like they didn't go out and try to get a DB.. How much time did we spend chasing Grimes. He decided to go elsewhere.. We probably could have had him with the money we could have spent but why do that?
There were many available as this FA signing period opened that would have been huge upgrades. Did you ever hear of us having any of them in for a visit? You don't just single out one guy and hope and pray when the cupboard is as bare as ours is.
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What we don't know is if Horton and Chud sat down looking at film and decided that Hagg, Bademosi, Skrine and Gipson are guys they feel they can work with. (I don't believe I said that LOL)
I don't believe you said that either. Which means we both know better than that.
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Rhodes, as of the last time I checked, was still available but I don't remember hearing that we have interest..
And that's the shame of it all. There were plenty on the market going in. And a position we had so much need at, with the FA market having so many available, we should have never been left painted into a corner this way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There is nothing good or decent about Mcclains slow azz
I will NEVER understand why people thought he was better than Donta Hightower
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But when we are SO FAR UNDER the cap as it stands and with so many holes to fill right now, to suggest "some posters think they know more" is just a reach and holds zero merit. There is NO question we could have done upgrades in our secondary without breaking the bank.
Zero merit? LMAO So, you and Dj know more about how to handle the cap than Banner. Okie Doike!
Look man, it's not just about this year, it's about the future. You can talk all the crap you want, but Banner has an excellent reputation of how to manage the cap. His Philly teams were competitive for years in large part because of how he managed the cap.
The secondary is a mess because Heckert left it that way. He double-drafted at QB, RB, and WR. Meanwhile, our offense still sucks! You wanna turn things around and blame Banner for it?!?! 
This team has a plethora of needs because of poor drafting and management. It's not going to turn into a playoff contender in one year. You can fool some posters with your BS, but you ain't fooling me. This has been our best off season--pre-draft---ever!
There are things I would have done differently. I wanted Golston, the FS from SF, but that did not happen. I wanted Grimes, but he signed for huge dollars in Miami. I will fault the FO for the first one, but can't blame them on the second. Sorry man, but guys like the Captain don't excite me. He was a bum in Carolina and just because he is a new name, doesn't mean he is great.
One more thing, I just love how you guys who preached that we need to build through the draft and it is stupid to bring in free agents while H and H were here are now crying about how we aren't bringing in enough free agents. 
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Zero merit? LMAO So, you and Dj know more about how to handle the cap than Banner. Okie Doike!
Everybody knows Vers, it's called internet and it's available for free, go take a look and no it's really not rocket science, more like pretty simple math:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap-hit/
If we roll over 10-20mil again, which looks very likely at this point, then we are almost 60mil under the cap for 2014. As Hel pointed out, we're winning the cap Bowl, that is all...oh, and Jimmy boy saves some money of course...just saying, maybe there ARE restrictions to merely spend over the minimum requirement from Haslam and their hands are tied. I'm not accusing anyone, just pointing out a possibility
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One more thing, I just love how you guys who preached that we need to build through the draft and it is stupid to bring in free agents while H and H were here are now crying about how we aren't bringing in enough free agents.
All this talk about moving on, agenda finger pointing, but somehow everytime it's you that brings up Heckert's or Holmgren's name into every discussion.
I could post for the upteenth time how it made sense in 2010 and 2011 (the cap argument actually was a legit one back then, because well you know, you're UP against the cap when you're up against it and you're 35mil UNDER it when your 35mil under, it's not magic andit DOES make a difference on what to ask for in FA) and how I was disappointed last offseason that we didn't do more and that I expected Heckert or whoever the GM to spend this FA to gev us to the next level...but for what? just to have you trying to make this an agenda battle I could care less about? Sounds like a waste of time and for sure it's not "talking football"....a requirement you ask time and again from all posters, but you continuously fail to hold yourself to that standard
If you really think that the roster THIS offseason is comparable to the roster 2-3 years ago, then we either disagree about talent at hand or you're trying at all cost to fuel a useless black and white fire.
The part that I don't get is...why do you try to start a fight when you pretty much are in agreement with someone? You've criticized this FO yourself for missing out on a DB in FA, or missing out on McClain for ILB etc Why do you see yourself as some sort of forum police to fight some obscure "majority", which really is a minority, that is criticizing stuff they don't like from this FO, which happens to correlate with stuff you didn't like yourself....it just doesn't make any sense
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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j/c
Isn't it obvious that the FO+ think much more of our young DBs than many on here are giving credit?
They cut Young...so they must believe the guys remaining are better than him.
Gipson was starting at the end of the year and seemed to do ok for a UDFA rookie. Maybe Horton thinks he can be the guy. (Even then, I acknowledge we have a depth issue...unless the 7th Rdr who started early last year develops...you know...a young guy that needs a year to figure it out. Aren't many saying that any DB outside the top 10 needs a year to figure it out?)
Bademosi has every possible measureable that one could want in a DB. Maybe...just maybe...they like him more than the older CB/Ss that were/are available.
Maybe Tevin Wade becomes a viable 4th CB.
They DID sign two other 3rd-5th DB types...it's not like they've done NOTHING.
Also, I think Skrine is going to make some people eat crow this year. A second-year, 5th Rd pick from Tenn Chat is not going to be ready to be the #1 CB in his second year - which is why he got lit up last year when Haden was out.
This will be his 3rd year...he is surely stronger today than last season and has another year under his belt...a year where he was pushed very hard.
I like the kid...he seems to always be riiiiiiiight there...like a split second late. He is a sure and willing tackler. I think he has the skill...I think he needs/needed to get stronger...he now has two years with a fair amount of playing time in him.
He is no worse than a good nickel guy. I'm thinking no worse than Cortland Finnegan...probably a little faster/quicker and not a douche...although not yet as strong.
It is reasonable to assume that he might improve a lot going into this year.
The other guys that we DID sign are young and not necessarily a/the finished product.
If we get a Milliner/Rhodes (my choice)/Trufant in the first...and another guy in the 4th...we will have a lot to choose from come September...not to mention...some slightly-coveted FAs are still out there as of today.
I think they have a plan to address the DBs...they like some young guys to develop...signed a couple depth guys....and have a draft coming up that is deeeeep in Cbs.
I'm not worried up until the moment they do not take a CB in the first round.
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Rookie
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No surprises here in this article. 
Here we go again
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We have a dire need to acquire at least 2 CB's.
NO WE DON'T.
Most every single team in the modern NFL has ONE decent corner. Then a bunch of nickel-dimers for depth. We currently have that.
You could count on one hand how many teams have a solid 1-2 punch at corner. To where if a Haden goes down you don't miss a beat. THIS is where we need to get to. And this draft is the perfect set-up for it.
I am rarely a proponent for moving out of the top 5 in any draft. I just don't like passing on potential STUDS. But this draft is setting up perfectly to move down and land that high 2nd rounder. And I'm not one who says we need to do that to recoup the 2nd we spent on Gordon. I say it for a REASON.
Reason is. Many of you guys have Milliner as the top notch CB out there. I DISAGREE. This kid IS NOT as fluid in the hips as you would want in order to be able to play up-tight man. And we're going to see this ALOT from Horton in BOTH our outside Corners. If we take Milliner we damn well better get a quality Center-Fielder. I don't care about his speed. WR's are just as damn quick and when they beat him off the line we best have over the top help.
We NEED to make the move with either Miami or SD. And there are 2 glaring things we better do within the 1st 68 picks. And it DOES NOT include landing TWO Corners.
1) Land a CB--Preference to RHODES & TRUFANT
2) Land a FS
And if we can pop on a TE the caliber of Escobar or Kelce. This has been an OUTSTANDING offseason.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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NFL recievers seem to get taller every year, and more teams are using that advantage on small corners. I see the corner of the future being a fast strong safety (6' to 6-3'). And by the way, with cover skills. Now find that guy in the draft and you have a stud. 
GO BROWNS!
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I am not even going to bother w/the cap stuff. If you really think you know more about how to handle the cap than Banner---who is regarded by other NFL execs as an expert and maybe the best in the business---than there is nothing left to discuss. I do try and talk football. No one responds to those posts. The only conversations we have on here is when we are arguing. I've broken down scouting departments, I have analyzed the roster, I have spoke of team needs, I have profiled Weeden over and over---yet no one wants to discuss those things. This garbage is all we have. Quote:
The part that I don't get is...why do you try to start a fight when you pretty much are in agreement with someone? You've criticized this FO yourself for missing out on a DB in FA, or missing out on McClain for ILB etc Why do you see yourself as some sort of forum police to fight some obscure "majority", which really is a minority, that is criticizing stuff they don't like from this FO, which happens to correlate with stuff you didn't like yourself....it just doesn't make any sense
I have no problem w/people criticizing the FO. I hated the past regime and don't have a problem w/those who really liked the last regime. I have had a couple of really good private conversations w/ddubia and Held. They both liked the past regimes and are wary of the current one. I have NO PROBLEM w/that. I have a problem w/you, Pit, and especially mac because you guys are so unfair about it. I've seen lies, wild exaggerations, and senseless speculation on almost every post you guys make. It's like you are looking for reasons to complain. You are not as bad as the other two, but man, it's annoying.
The majority/minority thing came in because most people really liked Heckert. They are more offended by a poster who rips H and H than one who rips Banner. I understand that, but I am not going to sit idly by when people act like we are doomed because we lost H and H and how the new guys are so clueless. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me, but I don't think we would have ever won under the direction of H and H. The Big Show was a buffoon. Heckert was overrated. People on the boards act like he was so great---among the best in the entire NFL. Yet, he didn't get a job while guys w/no previous GM experience did get jobs.
There is a difference between being young and being young and talented. I think people get confused because we had so many young guys on the field. They automatically think those guys are going to end up being good. Our roster was so poor that chumps like Haag, Wade, and Maracic saw significant playing time. That doesn't mean they are good or will ever be good. And it is a FACT that our record did NOT improve by even one game during their tenure here. I despised their drafts for the most part. I do like guys like Schwartz and Winn, but that was so terribly offset by moving up w/Minni for TRich and then drafting the bone-headed Weeden. It was a perfect year to trade down and garner more picks. Perfect. H and H decided to get sexy. Take the hot guys. Two freaking stupid picks that are going to hurt this franchise for awhile.
So, while you and others are either sad/mad that they are gone, I am celebrating. I don't know if the new guys are any better, but I don't see how they could be any worse. And I am going to call you guys on it when you act like we are NOW doomed. Hell bro, I thought we were doomed before.
And again, I am not asking anyone to share my views. I respect the viewpoints of guys like ddubia and Held. I understand their logic. But, they keep things fair.
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