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http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x1048856672/Confident-Weeden-dreams-of-75-percent-shotgunConfident Weeden dreams of 75 percent shotgun BEREA — Last year, Brandon Weeden’s head was swimming. This year, he’s going with the flow. Weeden sounded energized and confident on the first day of Browns minicamp, just minutes after his new head coach left the door open for newcomer Jason Campbell becoming the No. 1 quarterback. “They’re throwing a lot at us,” a jaunty Weeden said after Monday’s practice, “and it’s been outstanding.” Weeden endured a disappointing while not disastrous 2012 as a rookie No. 22 overall draft pick. He was 5-10 as the starter in a system bent on weaning him out of the shotgun formation. Pat Shurmur and Brad Childress are out. Rob Chudzinski and Norv Turner are the new head coach-coordinator tag team. The shotgun is back in Weeden’s life, big-time. “Look at Philip Rivers when he was with Norv in San Diego,” Weeden said. “He was in shotgun 75 percent of the time.” Weeden operated out of “the gun” almost all the time in two prolific years of college ball. The former Oklahoma State Cowboy has hit it off with the former Dallas Cowboy who brought along Hall of Famer Troy Aikman. “Norv is a great resource,” Weeden said. “I trust everything he’s saying. “If he says throw a pump 8, I’m throwing a pump 8.” Up to now, Turner and Weeden had been limited to chalk talks. Coming off the first practice, veteran linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was amazed. “You guys have so many looks,” Jackson said to Weeden as practice broke up. A tangible confidence and conviction about making a jump was Weeden’s look Tuesday. As a 2012 starter, he ranked near the bottom of the NFL in several key categories. “It’s my second year,” Weeden said. “My job is to take control, to be the guy, to be the leader of the offense, the leader of the locker room. “I’m a little more proactive.” It’s deeper than that. His mechanics will change. He will quit wasting time patting the ball. He will speed up his footwork. He will welcome back the shotgun. Looking back, the 2012 stat Weeden hated most was his 57.4 completion percentage. He hovered around 70 in college. “It’s never been that low in my entire life,” he said, “going back to high school.” He shook his head as he flashed back to misfires that should have been completions. “I missed throws I never missed,” he said. As to receiving no guarantees he will be the top dog, Weeden shrugged. He said he liked Campbell the moment he met him during a 2012 preseason game against the Bears. “I remember telling Whip (departed QBs coach Mark Whipple), ‘That’s a good guy,’ ” Weeden said. “He’s a veteran. He’ll help me. I’ll help him.” Chudzinski was less direct in his language than CEO Joe Banner recently had been in declaring Weeden would come in as the starter, but would be subject to competition. Chudzinski talked in terms of “finding a starter” at quarterback. “I’m not putting a date on it,” he said. Chudzinski wouldn’t state what Weeden made obvious, that the new system fits him better than the old one. “I’m not going to comment at all on what Brandon was last year,” Chudzinski said. Meanwhile, Banner and general manager Michael Lombardi hold the No. 6 spot in next week’s draft. They could throw everyone a curveball and pick quarterback Geno Smith. As with everything else that came out of Weeden’s mouth Tuesday, the theme was “no worries.” “That’s above my pay grade,” Weeden said. He sounded very much like a man who intends to earn No. 1 quarterback’s pay in 2013. By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff writer Posted Apr 16, 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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FYI,
Most of what was quoted in this article is also in video interviews listed on the Browns' website. Good stuff! I'm sure more vids will be up later on this evening as well.
It will be tough to predict how Weeden will absorb a new offense but at least it seems the shotgun will aid in his comfortability. Looks like Richardson will continue the heavy workload as well.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/17/13 02:26 PM.
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Someone posted a stat awhile ago that of all qualified passers, only one QB (I forget who. Matt Shaub maybe?) took less snaps out of he shotgun than Weeden.
Typical Shurmur. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
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Typical Shurmur. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
+1
Why coaches do this is beyond me. Maybe this illustrates the difference of opinion between the front office and the coaches last season. Shurmur probably didn't want Weeden and didn't know how to coach around his tendencies (same probably would have happened with RG3).
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Someone posted a stat awhile ago that of all qualified passers, only one QB (I forget who. Matt Shaub maybe?) took less snaps out of he shotgun than Weeden.
Typical Shurmur. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
You know if we only made one change this year. Chud for Shurmur.
I would be really happy and I am. 
I hated that guy
Joe Thomas #73
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Shurmur's had his system when he came here. It was Heckert's job to find a QB to fit the system and for as much as i liked Heckert, he failed Shurmur. I liked Weeden but I hated Weeden in Shurmur's WCO. Heckert may end up being the savior of Cleveland after all as Weeden and Richardson are better fits with Chud and Norv's offense.
If there was ever a pro system for Weeden's skill set this is it.
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The NFL average is 66% of all pass attempts being out of the shotgun. Weeden was only at 43.3% 517 attempts last year means he threw 224 passes out of the shotgun. To get to the NFL average, he would have had to throw 341 passes out of the gun. That's 117 more passes JUST to be average in the NFL. That's basically 8 more passes per game to get to AVERAGE. Drafting a guy from a spread offense, then having these types of number just doesn't make sense. Here's an article about it
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Shurmur's had his system when he came here. It was Heckert's job to find a QB to fit the system and for as much as i liked Heckert, he failed Shurmur. I liked Weeden but I hated Weeden in Shurmur's WCO. Heckert may end up being the savior of Cleveland after all as Weeden and Richardson are better fits with Chud and Norv's offense.
If there was ever a pro system for Weeden's skill set this is it.
We don't really even know if it was Heckert that pulled the trigger on Weeded and not Holmgren. We may never actually "know".
It would not surprise me, however, if it was Holmgren the QB Guru.
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Quote:
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Shurmur's had his system when he came here. It was Heckert's job to find a QB to fit the system and for as much as i liked Heckert, he failed Shurmur. I liked Weeden but I hated Weeden in Shurmur's WCO. Heckert may end up being the savior of Cleveland after all as Weeden and Richardson are better fits with Chud and Norv's offense.
If there was ever a pro system for Weeden's skill set this is it.
We don't really even know if it was Heckert that pulled the trigger on Weeded and not Holmgren. We may never actually "know".
It would not surprise me, however, if it was Holmgren the QB Guru.
There was an article quoting Holmgren and he trumped Heckert on one of the picks in 2012...either Richardson or Weeden. Either way, this is the best offense for Weeden to prove he belongs in the NFL. If he can't then on to the next "franchise" QB.
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Quote:
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Shurmur's had his system when he came here. It was Heckert's job to find a QB to fit the system and for as much as i liked Heckert, he failed Shurmur. I liked Weeden but I hated Weeden in Shurmur's WCO. Heckert may end up being the savior of Cleveland after all as Weeden and Richardson are better fits with Chud and Norv's offense.
If there was ever a pro system for Weeden's skill set this is it.
We don't really even know if it was Heckert that pulled the trigger on Weeded and not Holmgren. We may never actually "know".
It would not surprise me, however, if it was Holmgren the QB Guru.
There was an article quoting Holmgren and he trumped Heckert on one of the picks in 2012...either Richardson or Weeden. Either way, this is the best offense for Weeden to prove he belongs in the NFL. If he can't then on to the next "franchise" QB.
I remember this at the time and always thought it was Weeden. I know this has come up on the board before and others thought it was Richardson. Maybe it was both lol.
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jc This probably already makes Weeden happy. I think Weeden would want to be in the gun every snap. Even on handoffs. He made his college career in the shotgun, yet Shurmur must have failed to watch his film cause I recall Weeden in the gun a handful of times. That silly Pat Shurmur 
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That silly Pat Shurmur
It's almost like he wasn't qualified for the job.
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The biggest reason I have hope for Weeden is that he was put into a position almost guaranteed to fail, and he handled it. He was shoved square peg into round hole style into an offense that in no way whatsoever fit his talents, skills, and abilities, yet he still did an OK job, and created big plays in the pass game. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but when everything was taken into account, he is worth a look, in another year, in a scheme that actually fits him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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People are going to be sooooooooooooo pissed when we take Geno Smith in the first round.
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Just based on resume, I have no idea how Shurmur ever got a head coaching job in the NFL.
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Although I agree with much you said, progressing through your scans, reading defenses and making adjustments thereafter, learning to get rid of the ball faster, cold starts, not eyeing WR's and ETC, are things he'll battle in any type of system or structure. Those are just fundamentals. It's no secret Pat and Chilly could have schemed better for what he did in college and just overall his and the other players talents. I mean how these morons are still in the NFL after their utter display and quite honestly, their offensive fiasco... is beyond me. But the bad part is Weeden has so many fundamentals to improve is which is why I draw such a heavy question mark. I would venture to agree with you though, he did "OK". By far not NFL starting QB material though, and IMO, a decent way away from that status. We'll see. I don't think this staff will keep him in there and will bench him if he continues where he left off. Weeden's rope is very thin, and he'll need to put in work to get length back on that rope. I'm hoping for him, the thought of seeing Jason Campbell as starter makes me go 
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Just based on resume, I have no idea how Shurmur ever got a head coaching job in the NFL.
The same could be said about Harbaugh (Ravens) and Mike McCarthy when they were first hired but most people think Shurmur was a good ole' boy hire and I can't blame them. Holmgren worked with his uncle and from the first day after Mangini was fired, Shurmur was assumed to be the frontrunner. I forget who else was interviewed, but after the Rooney Rule interview of the Giants DC, it was pretty much done. And it failed, whether it would have come from Holmgren firing him or a regime change, I think we would have had a new HC here regardless. He just didn't have it.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/17/13 06:59 PM.
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I like Weeden. I think this is the system that he should be able to run at a high level but I am still drafting Manuel, Jones or Bray and have them refine their game while you allow Weeden to take make or break.
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I'm OK with that, but what round do you take a QB in?...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
Typical Shurmur. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
+1
Why coaches do this is beyond me. Maybe this illustrates the difference of opinion between the front office and the coaches last season. Shurmur probably didn't want Weeden and didn't know how to coach around his tendencies (same probably would have happened with RG3).
I call BS!
The Big Show hired both Heckert and Shurmur. The Big Show insisted that we switch to the WCO. Heckert did not want to work w/Mangini. He also wanted Shurmur.
I thought Passive Pat sucked as a HC, but the real problem lays w/The Big Show and Reach Heckert. Why draft a guy [Weeden] that doesn't fit the system that you insist our offense runs?
It's just another indicator of how clueless those guys were and why both are sitting at home instead of working.
Regarding Weeden? I read all the fluff articles last year, too. This is no different. I think Chud and Norv's system will help him some, but the guy is as football dumb as they get. His pocket presence stinks. He lacks guts. He is not a playmaker. He doesn't know what anticipation means, although he might be old enough to remember the ketchup commercial w/Carly Simon singing in the background.  He doesn't inspire his teammates. He makes excuses. He isn't a hard worker.
But hey......he has a pretty good arm and put up big numbers in a Spread offense in college in a conference that is known for all kinds of losers doing the same.
Blaming Passive Pat for all of Weeden's woes will certainly make them disappear. 
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Look who's talking football again As for Weeden: putting him in the gun should help him out. He's in the same situation Colt was in entering his 2nd season: new coaches, new scheme that's supposed to fit his strengths....Colt failed and got replaced, we will see how Weeden does with that chance...if he fails, he's gone too
#gmstrong
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And he wonders why no one responds to his "football" posts.....
Don't worry, folks. This happened daily on the previous Browns' board.
But in fairness, a good portion of my posts aren't always football related. I just don't claim them all to be.
DJ, I agree with you. This offense should tell mightily what Weeden can/can't do. I think there are some instinctual things that may never be cured, but he possibly can improve in this scheme. I think INTs will always be a part of his game, but the accuracy and decision making need to improve.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/17/13 08:34 PM.
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to BBrowns 32- Landry Jones should be there in the 3rd and I really see a guy with Farve potential, hell he has far superior accuracy to Farve when he came out and just as good of an arm.
Bray is the intriguing guy. I see a player with everything and just hasnt put it together, he should fall to 4. Manuel is the guy i like the most out of all the QBs but he may jump into the first and I just couldnt spend that on him.
Vers- Weeden showed improvement. Whether anyone is a fan of his or not he did improve and then he appeared to hit the rookie wall and it was all down hill from there with the certainty of a complete overhaul coming. I worry that maybe he has reached his ceiling at his age.
DJ Even if weeden isn't much more than what we have seen, he isnt going anywhere. His contract is pretty cheap and he could be a guy that can come in and run a team at a pretty good level. I think at worst, he is a Chad Henne.
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Thanks for your thoughts! While I'm not opposed to taking a QB in the 3rd, I'd rather go with "need", say the best ILB on the board...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I dont really see inside backer as a need. I may be completely wrong on this but I think our guys will surprise.
I hope we can trade down and get CB Rhodes in the first and I would love OG Warford in the 2nd. Maybe package a couple picks and get back into the 3rd for Rambo.
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Quote:
There was an article quoting Holmgren and he trumped Heckert on one of the picks in 2012...either Richardson or Weeden. Either way, this is the best offense for Weeden to prove he belongs in the NFL.
My money's on the Weeden pick.
1. Holmy as much as said that his policy was to draft a QB every year in his previous job
2. The Trent pick was close to a no-brainer, as far as BPA is concerned.
3. Many thought Weedz was a reach at 22 (...and he may turn out to be).
I doubt that Heckert would have placed 22 value on Weedz without some prodding.... and given his position in the organization, there's pretty much only one person with the clout necessary to provide that level of "prod"...
.02
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75% Shotgun equals very little running game. If Norv is running the show I don't believe we will see a year with 75% shotgun. With Richardson on the team I expect Norv to want a running game. Work off that to throw downfield. But we shall see come September.
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75% Shotgun equals very little running game. If Norv is running the show I don't believe we will see a year with 75% shotgun. With Richardson on the team I expect Norv to want a running game. Work off that to throw downfield. But we shall see come September.
I would say to think along the lines of San Diego with a young and healthy LaDainian Tomlinson... however much shotgun you saw then, that's probably a pretty safe Over/Under point for what we'll see.
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It's not necessarily 75% of plays that are out of shotgun. Get him up to 70ish percent of pass attempts out of the gun.
Say we run 60 offensive plays.
30 runs, 30 passes.
Throw 21 of those passes out of the gun. Then say we run 5 times out of the gun to keep the defense honest.
Now you're looking at Weeden hitting 70% of pass attempts from the gun, while still only being in the gun 43% of the time.
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Good point.
I am sure Norv is experienced enough to have plaenty of runs from under center and plenty from the gun. Same with passes.
I don't think being in the gun or not is going to be a dead giveaway on if we are passing or running the ball.
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I think you might misunderstand the 75% stat. I take it to mean 75% of all passing plays... not 75% of ALL plays.
If I'm correct, that means we could still see a healthy dose of TRich without changing that 75% stat one bit.
just sayin'...
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I don't see it as a bad thing having us in the shotgun 75% of the time ...... because Richardson seems more comfortable setting up deeper ..... and running out of the shotgun should be far better for him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Quote:
Look who's talking football again
You don't think I was talking football? Why not? Is it because you don't agree w/me?
Let's see:
A couple of posters were bashing Shurmur. One said that he was trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, or something like that. Another said that he couldn't understand why coaches did this. Another said that Shurmur didn't want Weeden and that he was forced on him.
Now, I brought up these points. You tell me which ones are false:
--The Big Show hired Shurmur.
--He wanted a guy who would run his version of the WCO.
--Heckert did not want to work w/Mangini and supported the move to hire Shurmur.
--All three parties [H, H, and S] knew that we would be running the WCO!
--Heckert/The Big Show drafted Weeden.
--Weeden ran the Spread offense in college.
--The Spread offense doesn't ask the QB to make a lot of pre-snap reads.
--The Spread offense asks the QB to make even fewer post-snap reads.
--The WCO needs a cerebral QB.
--Weeden played in the Shotgun almost exclusively in college.
--The Big Show's version of the WCO doesn't have the QB in the shotgun very often.
--Most people who follow the draft did not have Weeden as a first round pick. I had him a 4th rounder.
--We drafted him despite all of the above and some guys want to put ALL the blame on Passive Pat? I call BS once again. How that isn't football is beyond me. It daggone right is football talk and it is one of the reasons those three guys are gone. It's a heckuva lot more football talk than the crap that typically goes on around here. Some of you don't like it because it doesn't fit in w/your viewpoints. Too freaking bad!
And I got more. I put all this in my previous post.
--Did Weeden hold the ball too long?
--Was his pocket presence poor?
--Did he throw w/anticipation?
--Did he inspire his teammates?
--Did he throw his coaches under the bus?
--Did he show "it?"
--Did he work hard?
How is that NOT football talk? Let me guess......you are a Weeden fan? Tell me......you are, aren't you. You thought he was going to be a stud, right? LOL....Now, you are going to get upset if someone questions him and say that they aren't talking football.
Well pal, I don't know about your version of talking football, but I think I talked plenty of football in both these posts. Much more than all these posts that reference the "bean counter."
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j/c Thomas: Offense coming back 'fairly quickly' Left tackle Joe Thomas is adjusting to an offensive scheme that is similar to the one he worked in during his first two seasons with the Browns. After going through the Cleveland Browns’ three-day minicamp, six-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas said learning the offense from coach Rob Chudzinski and offensive coordinator Norv Turner was coming to back to him “fairly quickly.” The reason for the accelerated learning curve? When the Browns made Thomas the No. 3 overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, he worked with Chudzinski, who was the team’s offensive coordinator at the time. “It’s the same offense,” Thomas said following the third and final practice Thursday. “Norv’s the offensive coordinator, but when Chud was here as the offensive coordinator, he learned from Norv and brought Norv’s stuff here. It’s pretty similar. There’s obviously a few things that have changed, just like football in general. It changes every year, even if it is the same offense. It kind of evolves. There’s a few nuances that are going to be different.” When Chudzinski was the offensive coordinator in 2007, Thomas anchored an offensive line that gave running back Jamal Lewis the space to run for 1,304 yards and nine scores, and quarterback Derek Anderson enough time to complete 298 passes for 3,787 yards and 29 touchdowns, and earn an invitation to the Pro Bowl. “When Chud was here the first time, there was an emphasis on getting back and getting the ball out,” Thomas said. “You’ve got to have a quarterback and a system that gets rid of the ball because no matter who you have blocking, you can’t block for six or seven seconds every time. From what we had last time, there was a good emphasis on getting the ball out, so hopefully that will be consistent.” Thomas said the utilization of the shotgun formation is “good for me” as an offensive lineman because it increases the tempo with which the offense operates. “Anything that’s going to help the quarterback make his reads quicker and get the ball out faster is good for me,” Thomas said. “When a quarterback’s under center, he’s got to go further to get back into his drop. He’s got to take the ball from under center, and a lot of times, they take their eyes off the defense, which leads to a little bit slower reading of a defense, and that leads to getting the ball out slower. Anything that we can do to help our quarterbacks make their reads and get the ball out quicker is a good thing for the offensive line.” http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...c5-028bdb68d334
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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“When Chud was here the first time, there was an emphasis on getting back and getting the ball out,” Thomas said. “You’ve got to have a quarterback and a system that gets rid of the ball because no matter who you have blocking, you can’t block for six or seven seconds every time. From what we had last time, there was a good emphasis on getting the ball out, so hopefully that will be consistent.”
LOL.......this is the second time that I know of that Joe has let out the not-so-subtle message that Weeden holds the ball way too long and that DA did not.
Back in 2007 was when I knew 2 Brown's players and one coach. The OL loved DA because he got rid of the ball and hung out w/him. They didn't like Frye who typically broke out of the pocket when it was secure and was gushing over Leon and K2.
Guys, I am excited about this offense, but it ain't going anywhere [I don't care how good Chud and Norv are] if Weeden pulls the same crap he did last year.
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“When Chud was here the first time, there was an emphasis on getting back and getting the ball out,” Thomas said. “You’ve got to have a quarterback and a system that gets rid of the ball because no matter who you have blocking, you can’t block for six or seven seconds every time. From what we had last time, there was a good emphasis on getting the ball out, so hopefully that will be consistent.”
Guys, I am excited about this offense, but it ain't going anywhere [I don't care how good Chud and Norv are] if Weeden pulls the same crap he did last year.
well with chud and norv if he does he just will not be playing?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I though it was an agenda post from start to finish "Passive Pat" and "Reach Heckert" kind of gave it away...oh and your very hypothetical "Reach Heckert didn't wan to work with my buddy Mangini" too. Where's the proof for that? If he wasn't willing to work with him, "the big show" would have fired him as soon as he signed Heckert...maybe, just maybe Mangini, the guy who is known to off everyone around him (who's mentor doesn't talk to him anymore, or who's buddy/ex-GM neither), was the one who wasn't managable in that situation? Wild guess I know, lol I'm kind of learning why you were and obv still are so enamoured with Mangini, but I won't go there...yet Back to football: your points on Weeden are very valid, but could be made on MOST of the rookie QB coming out these days. One point I'd dispute is the "it" thing...he DID put up game winning throws vs the Colts and Cowboys, in one instance his rookie WR failed him on one of the most beautifully thrown balls I've seen a Browns QB make and vs the Cowboys the D and refs gave that game back to the Cowboys I'd also argue that his pocket presence improved a lot during the seasosn. It was my biggest concern with him out of College, but he improved a lot and stepped up regularly. I also didn't see as much anticipation issues as with McCoy. Sure, he was far from good or consistent, but he at least has shown flashes of doing it. That's the thing for me with any player and esp. rook: if there are flashes of above AVG or better plays, then there's something to work with. Sure, I was and still am a Weeden-pimp, but I never expected him to be a top 10 passer from day 1. There was a thread of his expected statst before the season and he pretty much fell in line with what I expected (especially if you leave out game one) in terms of TD/INT ratio, yds, yds/PA etc It's kind of odd for me that you see so much hope with every player on the front 7 in a new fitting scheme for them but so little hope for Weeden. You also have a below AVG Brownsfan opinion of Sheard, the WRs, Ward etc...there sure is some agenda smell to it imho (wild guess from the "Reach Heckert" comment), but maybe it's just a "coincidence" 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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It's kind of odd for me that you see so much hope with every player on the front 7 in a new fitting scheme for them but so little hope for Weeden. You also have a below AVG Brownsfan opinion of Sheard, the WRs, Ward etc...there sure is some agenda smell to it imho (wild guess from the "Reach Heckert" comment), but maybe it's just a "coincidence"
I have hope for the front 7 because there is some talent there. I see a lot of versatility. I don't think our defense has been very good. We have has some statistical success, but when teams needed to score on us--they did. I have some hope for Weeden. Maybe you guys are right. It's all about the coaching. I think the coaching will help. I think the new system will help, but I think he has serious holes in his game.
You are priceless talking to me about having "agenda" in a post. LOL man. Unlike you, I admit what I feel and don't hide behind subtle deception. I didn't like H and H. See, that's right out in the open. I thought The Big Show was a buffoon who milked Junior for tens of millions of dollars. I thought Heckert reached on too many picks and didn't use FA as a tool.
What makes you think I don't like Sheard? Because I said something negative about him on one thread? LOL.....you see Dj, I am not one of those posters who only argues one side because saying something contrary might hurt the odds of people buying into my agenda. I think Sheard was a pretty good pick by Heckert. He was picked in round 2 at a position where many guys end up being duds. He has been fairly productive. Good pick by Heckert.
Ward? I listed both positives and negatives in his game. It was an HONEST evaluation. I detest how so many of you either lavishly praise a player or completely trash a player. It's like you need to be consistent so others buy into what you are thinking. Let me say this again.......I don't care about changing people's minds. I try and educate people and I want them to educate me. You can't learn if both sides aren't expressed honestly. And the bottom line I had w/Ward was that I thought he was going to take-off this year and have the chance to be a real star. That means I don't like him? 
The WRs? I really haven't talked about them much. I did say that Gordon's past history w/drugs concerns me. Am I wrong for that? Everyone else around here is real hush-hush about it. Let's not talk about the big, dirty secret. Ssshhhhhh. Sorry man, it's a concern.
Back to Weeden.
I noticed you did not even attempt to address my points about Weeden not fitting in w/the WCO we were running and H and H drafting him anyway. You don't see that as a problem? Do you really think that Passive Pat deserves all the blame? You don't think it's odd that they drafted a QB who was so mismatched for the offense they demanded we run?
I didn't see the "it" factor. You did. Fine. We can leave it at that.
Pocket presence? It got better during the season? I didn't see that at all. I saw him holding the ball forever. I saw him take needless sacks throughout the year. I saw him miss opportunities to step-up in the pocket and make a throw. I saw him not want to get hit---repeatedly. I saw him not have the ability to read the corner blitz when it was obvious even to chump like me that the guy was coming.
I am not trying to change your mind on that one or asking anyone to agree w/me, but I will keep my opinion that his pocket presence was a real weakness.
Look, I hope the guy blooms this year. I think there is some talent on this team [yes, that is praise for Heckert]. I like a couple of our new FAs. I love our new coaches. I feel good about having a FO in here that seems to have more energy and a firmer sense of direction.
But, this team won't make any strides if we get the same type of play out of the QB position as we did last year. It's pretty bad when your own teammates are questioning you. Joe's comments [although subtle] are quite clear. You simply can NOT have a QB who holds the ball that long.
Maybe Weeden will improve big-time. Again, I do think the new coaches will help him and I think the new system fits his skill set much better...so there is hope. And I am not saying I am absolutely right, but I think the guy really, really struggles w/the mental and instinctual parts of the game. His reads are awful. He shows nothing in regards to anticipation. Combine that w/the reports that perhaps he isn't the hardest worker and I think there are huge concerns about this guy's effectiveness going forward.
And if we don't get more production and sounder play from the QB position, this team is doomed for another double-digit losing season.
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Back to Weeden.
I noticed you did not even attempt to address my points about Weeden not fitting in w/the WCO we were running and H and H drafting him anyway. You don't see that as a problem? Do you really think that Passive Pat deserves all the blame? You don't think it's odd that they drafted a QB who was so mismatched for the offense they demanded we run?
Well, imagine you're Heckert...what would you have done? There was nothing in FA, Colt "he battled" McCoy was a no-go for another season and we whiffed or got jobbed (whatever theory anyone believes in) on RG3 sweepstakes...and don't tell me you wanted Russell Wilson in round 3/4, nobody saw that coming, obviously not even SEA as they threw away millions on a backup QB. He was a mis-match, no doubt. When we drafted him that along with his pocket presence were my two biggest concerns...I was pretty sure Shurmur would open things up and adjust his Offense to Weeden's strengths....well, he didn't and that (along with numerous other shortcomings) got him fired...btw, I addressed your points and even said that most are valid and disputed those where I disagree...why the hell do you act as if I ignored them when I didn't?
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I didn't see the "it" factor. You did. Fine. We can leave it at that.
Of course he didn't have "it" in every game, but he flashed enough for me to give him another season
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I am not trying to change your mind on that one or asking anyone to agree w/me, but I will keep my opinion that his pocket presence was a real weakness.
Did I say it was a strength? I said it improved and that's all I ask from rooks and 2nd year players if they flash enough ability...if they keep improving and gain consistency the flashes will outweigh the negatives, that's what I believe to be true with every player at every position. Weeden's pocket presence was highly inconsitent throughout the year. In his 1st game, he was horrible in pretty much everything. He got significantly better with it in the upcoming weeks and had real nice games vs Cincy twice, vs Colts (which was his best game imho, which the stats don't reflect) and NYG....then there was the media riff with Shurmur and since then he was half scared, half mentally exhausted....now, you can make an argument that he doesnt have the mental strength a starting QB must have and that'd be a valid point and is my biggest concern NOW with him...he will do fine in the pocket imho when you protect him, he will make good throws, but he is a rhythm/confidence passer and is VERY streaky. When he's on, he can be near unstoppable but when he's confused, he looks like an UDFA rookie thrown in
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But, this team won't make any strides if we get the same type of play out of the QB position as we did last year. It's pretty bad when your own teammates are questioning you. Joe's comments [although subtle] are quite clear. You simply can NOT have a QB who holds the ball that long.
Absolutely, if he's the same this season, then he needs to be on the bench or traded in 2014. I think everyone agrees with that. Both Weeden and TRIch have to absolutely step it up...if BOTH don't, then Heckert failed us too
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Maybe Weeden will improve big-time. Again, I do think the new coaches will help him and I think the new system fits his skill set much better...so there is hope. And I am not saying I am absolutely right, but I think the guy really, really struggles w/the mental and instinctual parts of the game. His reads are awful. He shows nothing in regards to anticipation. Combine that w/the reports that perhaps he isn't the hardest worker and I think there are huge concerns about this guy's effectiveness going forward. .
Agree 100% with the mental stuff, as written above....but I think he has good QB instincts when the mental part is alright, they just go to hell when he starts thinking, which I think is also part of the learning process. Let's all not forget that he was a rookie and started 3years as a QB, 2 of them in College.
He's 29yo, but he still just a QB entering his 2nd season. Since week 2 last season he had a Bradford-like rookie season, which was praised to high heaven. Weeden's biggest problem from a PR perspective was being in the same class as Luck, RG3 and R.Wilson along with the emergence of a guy like Kaep, but if you look at his rookie season compared to larger pool of rookie season's it was pretty AVG....enough good to get a 2nd season and not good enough to proclaim him the future...I think that's where we stand with him. We will find out next season, hopefully (I just don't want a QB in the 1st)
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"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I was pretty sure Shurmur would open things up and adjust his Offense to Weeden's strengths...
I finally got to listen to the presser yesterday with Banner and Lombardi. Not very exciting really. But there were some takeaways and tidbits.
One of them was Banner answering a QB question (couldn't hear it)
Anyway, his response was something to the effect that lots of coaches say they'll adapt their offense to the talent they have, but rarely is it something that actually takes place. They usually install the offense they want, then look for guys to fit.
He then went on to say that Chud has shown an ability to win with different types of QBs and an ability to adapt to what his players do best. He then referred to Anderson and then Newton. Two completely different styles, both had success under Chud.
And he's basically right, Chud did adjust to the talent he was handed in both instances. I think it's an indication that he'll do that here with Weeden if that's who ends up being the starter.
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