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that Joe has let out the not-so-subtle message that Weeden holds the ball way too long and that DA did not.
???  Don't know where you got that from...I got it as a definitive dig on our previous Offense if anything he gave a reason why a Rookie Weeden did in deed hold onto the ball. He also gave why this O will Improve that status...more an indictment of the O then the QB??? Personally Weeden should draw rings around DA in this O. Gosh I hope so...lol 
After all we went after Campbell not DA.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Weeden ... DA ... COME ON there is a reason Weeden was selected in round 1 and DA in round 6 ... just sayin' 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I've always been a believer in Weeden once we got Chud - just the closer it gets the more nervous I get as in ANTICIPATION...afraid to go gung-ho.
Unless that was not really addressed to me...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Weeden ... DA ... COME ON there is a reason Weeden was selected in round 1 and DA in round 6 ... just sayin'
sure is. his name is heckert. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Weeden ... DA ... COME ON there is a reason Weeden was selected in round 1 and DA in round 6 ... just sayin'
sure is. his name is heckert.
Weeden would not have made it to our 2nd pick, thats why we did not wait ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Weeden ... DA ... COME ON there is a reason Weeden was selected in round 1 and DA in round 6 ... just sayin'
sure is. his name is heckert.
Weeden would not have made it to our 2nd pick, thats why we did not wait ...
yep. surprised he made it to #22. with all the teams wanting him and willing to trade up for him.  I mean who in there right mind wouldn't want a 29 year old rookie QB?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Get out your note pad Verse and write this down.... When it comes to the FO, I agree with you 100%!The FO knew the O Shurmer ran. They drafted a QB that didn't fit in with what Shurmer was running here. This FO hired Shurmer. Could Shurmer have changed his O up to be more suited to fit Weeden? Possibly. But it was actually Holmgren who stated we would run the WCO and then either sat back and let Weeden be drafted or got involved and told people to draft him. At any rate, the fact Weeden was a square peg in a round hole was the fault of Holmgren. I do think shurmer sucked as a HC any way you look at it. But then again, it was Holmgren who hired shurmer as well. Once again, I think your attacking style of response was uncalled for, but it was against one of those three you seem to consistently do that to. At least the three you admit doing that too.  But regardless, we agree. And I won't say I'm a Weeden fan, but even in some of those negatives you listed about Weeden? You can't honestly say that some of those problems couldn't be attributed to the coaching, or lack there of. Did he work hard? Who really knows the answer to that? Did he inspire his team mates? Or didn't the HC sell his system to the players? Either could be the case and nobody can really say which. Did he show "it"? Depends. In some games he seemed to. But then again, if the players stop or don't buy into what a HC is selling nobody shows "it". When it comes to the FO we agree totally on this thing. But judging a rookie thrown into a completely out of place system? Thrown into a team with a very poor HC? I think part of you opinion on Weeden is slightly pre-mature on this.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well, imagine you're Heckert...what would you have done? There was nothing in FA, Colt "he battled" McCoy was a no-go for another season and we whiffed or got jobbed (whatever theory anyone believes in) on RG3 sweepstakes...and don't tell me you wanted Russell Wilson in round 3/4
I would have traded out of the 4 spot and gathered more picks to fill our many needs. Moving up one spot w/Minni [who had zero intentions of taking TRich] was as dumb as it gets. I would have not taken Weeden at 22 under any circumstances.
You're right, I did not ever mention taking Wilson in rounds 3 or 4.
The rest? Good football talk. I don't agree w/everything, especially the it factor and the pocket presence, but that's okay. People read my take. They read your take. They watch w/their own eyes [even if they aren't extremely knowledgable of the intricacies of football] and they learn. That's good.
I hope we can have more conversations like this one.
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that Joe has let out the not-so-subtle message that Weeden holds the ball way too long and that DA did not.
??? Don't know where you got that from...I got it as a definitive dig on our previous Offense if anything he gave a reason why a Rookie Weeden did in deed hold onto the ball. He also gave why this O will Improve that status...more an indictment of the O then the QB??? Personally Weeden should draw rings around DA in this O. Gosh I hope so...lol
After all we went after Campbell not DA.
JMHO
I got it because I know how to read. I also got it because Joe made similar comments earlier this year when Chud was hired. I got it because of comments by a former coach who said Weeden didn't study in the film room. I got it because I saw how freaking long he held the ball, yet Lewis did not. I got it because TRich also said we had to dummy down the playcalling because of Weeden's struggles.
Don't challenge me on this one, tab. You're dead wrong!
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Get out your note pad Verse and write this down....
When it comes to the FO, I agree with you 100%!
You trying to give me a heart attack? 
That's all I needed to hear. I won't rub it in or belabor the point. I just wanted some honesty.
The previous regime was in a tough predicament. I wonder if they knew Junior was thinking of selling the team??? I have no idea, but that would change how they drafted. First, they move up one spot w/Minni to draft TRich even though Minni won't take him. Then, they take a qb. Two glorious positions. Two could-be impact players.
I wonder if they were thinking they had to win now? If so, that would help explain that strange first round. And I wouldn't blame them as much if that were indeed the case.
I'm glad Junior is gone. The guy was weird. I really liked Haslam, but this FBI thing has me concerned. Can you believe our luck, Pit? Sheesh man. We're both old timers and as much as we argue, I know you are a true Brown's fan. I just hope we can see a winner before we both die.
Hell, I have no idea if the new guys will succeed. I am just hoping they will. It really sucks being a Brown's fan most of the time. About all we got is our badge of loyalty. We wear it proudly. We proclaim that we are the guy you want to walk w/you down a dark alley way. We won't turn tail and run. We will always be there. That's our claim to fame. Meanwhile, other teams like Pittsburgh [where my wife is from] are running out fingers to put their Super Bowl rings on.
No wonder we are at each others' throats.
Peace brother.
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Haslam's son will end up running the show in a couple of years. I have zero doubts on that one. All of this rebate stuff will have little to no effect on the Browns.
I am a big Heckert fan but I disagreed mightily with this draft. I thought Trich was the best player in this draft when you leave positional value out of it but it was a loaded running back class and the RB position simply no longer has the value that it once had. to trade up was dumb.
Weeden struggled at the senior bowl to take the snap under center, drop back read the defense and deliver the ball. He couldnt do it and then to take him that high was crazy. I also hated the Hughes and Benjamin picks.
Loved the Schwartz pick and Winn (I had a late first early 2nd round grade on Winn) and he proved me wrong with Hughes.
Now as for the Weeden's former coach comments. I heard the interview and he in no way was dissing Weeden but just trying to pimp his guy going into the draft. Anyway this is the scheme that fits Weeden and he has a chance to be a star with this line, a healthy Richardson and an inshape Gordon with a Little that is catching the ball.
I may be crazy but even with the system changes, I think this team is gonna shock the AFC North. Shurmur was good at getting his players to show up for 60 and he made great improvements as a game day coach, but he was still pretty bad on game days.
Chud is one of the smartest guys in football but the question remains, "Can he lead men?" I believe he can and I believe we have brilliant coordinators supporting him.
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First, they move up one spot w/Minni to draft TRich even though Minni won't take him.
They may have felt that someone else was about to trade for the Minni pick and take Richardson. Though they went against the common philosophy of not taking a running back high, I give them props for targeting a guy and going hard to get him.
While I saw TR be indecisive hitting the hole and often get stopped dead trying to run inside, wasn't effective on 3rd down runs, still, he ran for 950 yards and scored 11 TD's.
I don't feel he was the beast we were expecting from his draft hype and high slot. But I think he did well considering the offense being run, the football intelligence of the man running it and he played as a rookie with fractured ribs. That was a lot going against him.
A pick too high at too high a cost? Maybe. Probably. But now healthy he should improve on his first season and if he does then regardless of how we obtained him the Browns could have a top RB on the roster.
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They may have felt that someone else was about to trade for the Minni pick and take Richardson. Though they went against the common philosophy of not taking a running back high, I give them props for targeting a guy and going hard to get him.
No offense bro, but that type of thinking is ignorant [not you---I mean Heckert.] You are going to make a nonsensical move because someone else does? Why?
Tampa Bay was the team that reportedly was interested in moving up. I say.....let them do it. Wait, I actually say, and said at the time, that we make the trade w/them. No way was Minni picking TRich. So, we make the trade w/TB, if it was indeed true.
We get all kinds of goodies in picks. They take TRich. We take Doug Martin later, who is a better back anyway. I preached it all last off season, Doug Martin was the guy to get. So, we get Doug Martin later and pick-up other picks. Then maybe we can upgrade some of the many needs that we have---you know---the ones that the "I Wanna Hug Heckert" crew keep telling us about. They keep complaining over and over and over and over about how Banner and company has not addressed the FS and CB positions in a timely manner---[that being less than one FA period and no draft, while Heckert had 3 years.]
No, we don't trade down and accumulate picks to address the many needs we had. We trade up for a freaking RB! An Alabama RB who couldn't beat out Ingram--who can't even win a starting role in the NFL. And then we draft a freaking old QB who played in the Spread offense and didn't fit into the WCO at all.
I love ya' man, but that is .-poor drafting.
Now, let me make this clear in case you don't know my position. I do not think TRich sucks. I think he is a solid back. He can give us a lot of production. Solid. He's not spectacular. He is not a real difference maker. He is not worth a high first round pick, but he will contribute in both the running and passing game. He will excel in short yardage situations. He is not a bust, per se. He's solid.
But, I wanted more than solid from that spot. I wanted a trade down where we accumulated many more picks and last year was the perfect year to trade down because there was SO FREAKING MUCH value from the middle of round 1 all the way into round 4. All the needs we had........and H and H go sexy. Big time RB and big time QB, who in reality aren't so big time and meanwhile, we still have a multitude of needs that most people around here are blaming on the new FO. 
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I think we all know why they made that trade up.
They got burned by the Rams and Redskins and they didn't want to get "burned" again.
I think T-Rich is better than he has shown. He doesn't have the ability to run in the type of system he was given last year, but in a one cut system, he should be much better, much more decisive. I trust Norv is going to turn him into the guy we saw at Alabama.
you had a good run Hank.
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Get out your note pad Verse and write this down....
When it comes to the FO, I agree with you 100%!
You trying to give me a heart attack?
That's all I needed to hear. I won't rub it in or belabor the point. I just wanted some honesty.
Well that's as honest as it gets. I don't like a lot of what they did. The one thing I feel is unclear is who made some of the decisions?
Toad suggests it was Holmgren sometimes pulling the strings, especially in regards to the QB choices. I have never seen any clear cut evidence to say one way or the other but it's an interesting question.
Just like the current situation we are in, we know that they talk about a consensus. but how often is everyone going to agree in such cases? We know that it is Banner who has the final say. So in the end result, I don't see that much difference in the current regimes decision making process than the last.
Holmgren was in the exact same position as Banner is now. He had the final say when a consensus couldn't be reached just like Banner does.
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The previous regime was in a tough predicament. I wonder if they knew Junior was thinking of selling the team??? I have no idea, but that would change how they drafted. First, they move up one spot w/Minni to draft TRich even though Minni won't take him. Then, they take a qb. Two glorious positions. Two could-be impact players.
I have no idea either Verse. But the way they drafted didn't seem like normal to me. In hind sight, you bring up an interesting question that looks like a possibility but we really have no way to know one way or the other for sure.
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I wonder if they were thinking they had to win now? If so, that would help explain that strange first round. And I wouldn't blame them as much if that were indeed the case.
Once again, I have no way of knowing. But if they didn't know and if they didn't feel that pressure, last years draft, as least as it pertains to that first round didn't make a lot of sense to me. We communicated on the other board as you know and I did want T-Rich, but I never saw us considering a trade up to get him.
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I'm glad Junior is gone. The guy was weird. I really liked Haslam, but this FBI thing has me concerned. Can you believe our luck, Pit? Sheesh man. We're both old timers and as much as we argue, I know you are a true Brown's fan. I just hope we can see a winner before we both die.
I wasn't a fan of Lerner nor was I really in great dislike of Lerner. I simply know he wasn't really a football guy. I think he truly did his best to hire the right guys to run the team, but just seemed to strike out every time. I know he didn't mind writing the checks and even though he did fail miserably at finding the right guys to run things, I don't feel it was out of a lack of effort.
With Banner, I do the exact same thing I do any time there are sweeping changes with the Browns. I believe we are all human and as such, when someone new appears on the scene, we watch, listen and observe. At least I do, First impressions mean a lot.
He denied he planned to hire Banner when most knew he would. Banner denied he was planning to hire Lombardi, though many felt pretty sure he would. We were told that Colt would get a chance to compete for the starting QB position which was shown to be false.
I guess those things combined left me with a very bad first impression. I don't know how these things will end up working out with Haslam and Pilot Flying J or how it may or may not effect the Browns.
But the one thing I do hope is the first impression I got of Haslam/Banner turn out to be wrong. I just didn't feel the combined points I outlined above were good starting points.
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Hell, I have no idea if the new guys will succeed. I am just hoping they will. It really sucks being a Brown's fan most of the time. About all we got is our badge of loyalty. We wear it proudly. We proclaim that we are the guy you want to walk w/you down a dark alley way. We won't turn tail and run. We will always be there. That's our claim to fame. Meanwhile, other teams like Pittsburgh [where my wife is from] are running out fingers to put their Super Bowl rings on.
No wonder we are at each others' throats.
Peace brother.
In the end, we both are after the same goal. For the Browns to be winners. While we may often not see things the same, we want the same results. There are no doubts about that.
I hope to see things turned around and this team get rings before I die as well. Sometimes being a Browns fan seems like nothing more than an exercise in futility. But it's what we are.
Maybe that has something to do with my feelings of mistrust in the new FO. I mean honestly, what has giving my trust to previous people in charge netted me thus far? So maybe it's just me being cynical. At any rate, peace to you as well bud.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
As to the title of the thread: "Weeden in the gun".
I'm expecting big things this year.
Weeden has, what, 14 starts under his belt? 15?
He's not a rookie.
Our O line is decent to good in comparison with many years.
He's got a talented group of receivers that I FULLY expect he'll be "throwing open"
He's got a running back that should be healthy.
He's got an offensive coordinator that is a guru, from what I've been told.
Looks to me like everything is in the hands of this "big" "strong armed" "accurate" qb.
Our offense SHOULD run like a finely tuned v-8 engine with all cylinders firing.
Weeden has it all this year. Plenty of starts under his belt, good line (with the caveat that ANY line could be better), not a rook, talented receivers, stud running back............I expect points on the board. If, and when, we lose, I'm expecting it to be a shoot out loss - 42-35 kind of games.
We'll see.
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I will say that of he can't succeed under Norv in his type of system, there are no excuses.
Everything about the situation he is being placed in plays to his strengths. So I expect to see a fairly well oiled machine or will expect a change at the QB position next season.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I expect to see considerable improvement from Weeden this year,
He will have the advantage of playing in an offense that fits his strengths ..... being able to use the shotgun, running deeper routes, and so on. I expect to see him really take huge steps forward.
I fully expect that we will see a ton of Trent at the goal line, given his determination to score down close ... so I suspect that Weeden will lose some close TD opportunities ...... but I still look for him to throw at least 20 this year. I also look for him to do a better job of seeing the field, and understanding what the defense is trying to make him do.
We went from scoring 218 points, or 13.6 per game, in 2011 .... to scoring 302, or 18.9 last year. I would expect that we should be able to move up into that 22-24 PPG range this year. That should be a reasonable expectation. That would put us roughly middle of the league, which would be a nice step forward for this team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I expect to see considerable improvement from Weeden this year,
He will have the advantage of playing in an offense that fits his strengths ..... being able to use the shotgun, running deeper routes, and so on. I expect to see him really take huge steps forward.
I fully expect that we will see a ton of Trent at the goal line, given his determination to score down close ... so I suspect that Weeden will lose some close TD opportunities ...... but I still look for him to throw at least 20 this year. I also look for him to do a better job of seeing the field, and understanding what the defense is trying to make him do.
We went from scoring 218 points, or 13.6 per game, in 2011 .... to scoring 302, or 18.9 last year. I would expect that we should be able to move up into that 22-24 PPG range this year. That should be a reasonable expectation. That would put us roughly middle of the league, which would be a nice step forward for this team.
Happy Birthday!
I'm not talking "avg. points scored per game", I'm talking wins.
Way back when, with our previous starter, anyone that mentioned the coaches, the offense, the lack of running game, receivers that were dubious at best, not having an off season, having 2 different systems in 2 years, etc etc etc.......if those were mentioned in defense of said previous starter, those that mentioned them were called ".....lovers", and, " stupid" basically.
I am merely pointing out that we have a fairly good line, a good running back (very good, if you factor in his injuries we didn't know about), receivers with great talent, and a qb in his second year with a whole year of starts under his belt.
I expect great things. And if the great things don't happen, I certainly will not entertain any excuses from the Weeden lovers.
The table is set, the food is ready........can Weeden serve it. That's the question. His accuracy is nothing like we were told it would be. His decision making was that of a rookie, and I agree, but he's not a rookie anymore. He was a first round draft pick. He's on the hot seat now. No excuses.
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I got it because I know how to read.
man if I ever wrote that to you ALL HECK WOULD LET LOOSE... 
So the only other side to that would BE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ...Please.
Come on - DA over Weeden. We got Chud who is very familiar with him.
We got DA very well Versed in the O.
We got DA basically asking to come here.
We got us signing a 31 year old back up...so un-Banner.
Btw what you stated....didn't see it there at all.
Come on Dawg...really? Yep Joe T is going to go into this season with an OUT RIGHT INSULT TO the Starting QB... Really??? lol 
Heckert did a very good job overall with his draft picks. Personnel wise he gets an A for us.
Weeden was a desperate pick...probability was he wouldn't be available in the 2nd...If so then we would not have been able to get Shwartz who would not be there in the 3rd.
We did a lot for our offense of the future Trent, Weeden, Gordon n Shwartz.
JMHO - Weeden btw = WAY BETTER THAN DA...man can't believe you're still riding that horse
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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[color:blue] [/color] Why Oh Why are you so hung up on the past Dawg? EO is completely right and I for on beleive with our draftting the proper drafts this year,
we will have a solid defense and an offense that will put FEAR into many defenses.
With Chud,Norv and Ray helping to decide who and when we draft a player we will be well on our way to a VERY GOOD SEASON.
Especially if you look at our schedule.
:nannerdance: :tsk:
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man if I ever wrote that to you ALL HECK WOULD LET LOOSE...
So the only other side to that would BE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ...Please.
LOL---you're offended? tab, you are the one who questioned me w/a roll eyes graemlin and a "..don't know where you got that from..." statement. Or, did you forget that?
And now you're saying I imagined Joe's comments? Really. He has brought up how the QB can't hold the ball twice recently. He applauded DA for getting rid of it quick and how much it helped the OL.
I know most people don't like how TRich's comments were reported, but the fact is he did indeed make them.
The coach at Ok. St. mentioned his work ethic.
Banner did talk about Weeden needing to work harder.
And it was evident when watching the games that Weeden did in fact---hold the freaking ball too long!!!
So stop rolling your dang eyes at me and acting like I am crazy! Weeden held the ball too long and everyone--but apparently you--knew it!
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And now you're saying I imagined Joe's comments? Really. He has brought up how the QB can't hold the ball twice recently. He applauded DA for getting rid of it quick and how much it helped the OL.
Vers...best way to prove your point is to find the quote and a link...to back up your claim...
But you need to be "realistic" about rookie QBs...in their first year in the NFL, beginning the learning process and adjusting to the speed of the game...learning to read defenses and going through progressions...nearly all rookie QBs hold the ball too long.
One indication that a QB holds the ball too long...qb sacks. Some will look at QB sacks and try to blame the quality of the Oline and their ability to hold their blocking long enough. But those who know football realize, many times the blame for a qb sack is on the QB and not the Oline.
Did Andy Luck hold on to the ball too long?...I watched him every chance I got and I can tell you, he did hold the ball too long and was sacked 41 times.
I saw Wilson early in the year (2012) and he too was holding the ball too long...but of all the rookie QBs, Wilson progressed the quickest and by the end of the season, he was running the offense, going through his progressions like a veteran...he was sacked 33 times.
RG held the ball too long at times...he managed to get out of some sacks with his legs, thus his sack total because he held the ball too long is likely less than it should have been. RG did get better as the season progressed...yet he was sacked 30 times.
I did not get to watch Tannehill but I have little doubt that he too held the ball too long, trying to read defenses and go through progressions...he was sacked 35 times last season.
I know Weeden held the ball too long at times because I saw him more than any of the other rookie QBs. Since I saw Weeden play more than the other QBs, does that mean he was the worst of all the rookie QBs in holding the ball too long?
...it might seem that Weeden was the worst of all the rookie QBs, holding the ball too long and he may have been...but Weeden was sacked less than the other rookie QBs...28 times. Some of that credit certainly goes to the Oline protection...but maybe Weeden was not as bad as some believe he was, hanging onto the ball too long.
I have watched veterans hold the ball too long...at times Drew Brees holds on to the ball way too long...he just hates to give up on a play and throw the ball away. Sometimes Brees is sacked because he holds onto the ball too long...sometimes he completes a pass in a critical moment in a game, helping his team win the game.
It's damn easy to sit in a seat or computer chair and criticize a qb for not giving up on a play and taking a sack.
I'm not so sure that Weeden was much different than the other rookie QBs last season, hanging onto the ball...but we have heard some QBs admit, the game slowed down for them in their second year, compared to the rookie season.
I believe all of us look forward to Weeden improving his game this season, even though, unlike all the other 2012 rookie QBs, Weeden won't be entering his second year learning the offense, like Luck, Wilson, Tannehill and RG...
...Weeden will be entering his second NFL season in a new offense, with new playbook and an all new offensive coaching staff. Hopefully Weeden can overcome that "fact" that everything changed offensively...
...but I'm willing to bet some of our "fans" will dismiss the "fact" that Weeden is learning his second new offense in as many years, preferring to blame Weeden should his performance not match up to the other QBs from the 2012 class.
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Mac, that was well said. Weeden was not as bad as people made him out to be. People do realize he set Cleveland Browns rookie passing records right? This was in an offense that didn't fit him and horrible play calling! Does he need to improve in a few areas...yes but so do most rookie QB's.
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Mac, that was well said. Weeden was not as bad as people made him out to be. People do realize he set Cleveland Browns rookie passing records right? This was in an offense that didn't fit him and horrible play calling! Does he need to improve in a few areas...yes but so do most rookie QB's.
Agreed that there are many places he can improve. Coming out the same year as Luck, RG3 and Wilson skewed things as far as rookie QBs go.
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Mac, that was well said. Weeden was not as bad as people made him out to be. People do realize he set Cleveland Browns rookie passing records right? This was in an offense that didn't fit him and horrible play calling! Does he need to improve in a few areas...yes but so do most rookie QB's.
Agreed that there are many places he can improve. Coming out the same year as Luck, RG3 and Wilson skewed things as far as rookie QBs go.
I agree wholeheartily ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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WOW! Way to go mac a beautiful post to Refute the junk Vers throws around with out any facts [color:red] [/color] :nannerdance:
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Yeah mac, great post...
...if the only indicator of holding on to the ball too long was sacks. But many times an indicator of holding on to the ball too long is not sacks but rather missed opportunities resulting in check downs, incompletions and throw-aways.
Getting the ball out quickly to an open receiver or throwing a receiver open is what you're looking for. Holding the ball too long thus not getting that done doesn't always result in a sack. But it does result in a lot of 3 and outs, killed drives and an overall ineffective offense.
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Not to disturb this thread with more facts, as posters act as if the Offense regressed under Weeden.... but somehow it is forgotten that the Weeden-led Offense scored almost a TD more PER GAME than the Col-led Offense the season before. It "progressed" from atrocious to below AVG/bad level with 4 rooks starting...not a bad start imho
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I'm not talking "avg. points scored per game", I'm talking wins.
Aren't you being overly simplistic Arch?
We are installing an entire new D with a lot of personnel who have never been in anything even close to this.
So if we lose a few games by say 38-31, you plan to blame the QB position and the O for that? Say we win 6 games but lose a few very high scoring games by a field goal or less, how would that be the fault of the QB or the O?
It would seem to me that had the D done even close to an average job in those other three games, we would have won nine. As I said, I think you're over simplifying things here just a bit.
It takes both sides of the ball to win games, not just one....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c: First of all, I agree w/you Pit that you can't put all the blame on Weeden if we don't win because we are getting beat in high-scoring games. That is BS. I don't think that is going to happen--LOL---but, it wouldn't be fair. Secondly, I read mac's post and I am laughing like crazy because of how stupid and misleading it was. Then, I read other posts that actually applaud him. And ddubia is the only one who even remotely challenged him? So, now you guys are telling me that Weeden didn't hold the ball too long? And you buy into his BS that Andrew Luck held it too long? Really? Then you accept that Wilson held it too long, while disregarding how much time that guy bought on many, many plays. Let me clue y'all into something-------Weeds played behind the best OL of any of those QBs. And it wasn't even close. Luck almost single-handildly carried his team. Let me ask you something: --How many wins did Cleveland improve under Weeden? --How about Luck? --Wilson? --RGIII? --Tannehill? And you are telling us that Weeden is right there w/those other QBs? mac, I see you are already making excuses for Weeden next year. Did you ever mention the fact that Colt had to learn a new offense in his second year? Did you mention the lockout thing? Did you ever mention that he played w/far less talent that Weeden did? That was one of the most misleading and inaccurate posts I have read on here, yet he gets either applauded or people ignore it. Wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do w/not wanting to admit that the Great Heckert blew that pick, would it? 
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j/c:
That was one of the most misleading and inaccurate posts I have read on here, yet he gets either applauded or people ignore it.
yep.
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ok, here goes: FACTS:
Points scored in 2011 to 2012:
Browns: 13.6 to 18.9 = +5.3p
Colts: 15.2 to 22.3 = +7.1p
Skins: 18 to 27.2 = +9.2p
Phins: 20.6 to 18 = -2.6p
Seahawks: 20.1 to 25.8 = +5.7p
#gmstrong
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ok, here goes: FACTS:
Points scored in 2011 to 2012:
Browns: 13.6 to 18.9 = +5.3p
Colts: 15.2 to 22.3 = +7.1p
Skins: 18 to 27.2 = +9.2p
Phins: 20.6 to 18 = -2.6p
Seahawks: 20.1 to 25.8 = +5.7p
good thing we had trent huh?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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3.5ypc and 38th out of 40 qualifying RBs Trent? Yeah, he was an upgrade over 3.6ypc Hillis/Haresty...oh wait  Alfred Morris, Reggie Bush, M.Lynch and even Vic Ballard were better "QBs best firends" last season. You're up to dispute that? Good luck
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Why didn't you answer my questions? How many wins did their teams improve by? I can hardly even respond to you anymore. You have gone off the deep end. Are you really trying to freaking tell us that Weeden is better than Luck? Than RGIII? Than Wilson? REALLY????
Here are some facts:
Record Differential:
Cleveland: +1
Miami: +1
Seattle: +4
Washington: +5
Indy: +9 That's freaking right for all you Luck haters-------plus freaking 9!!! The guy is a stud!
Let's do more facts, shall we:
Wins:
Cleveland: 5
Miami: 7
Washington: 10
Seattle: 11
Indy: 11
You wanna keep talking facts, buddy boy? Your boy loses every which way! And anyone who has a clue still can't refute me that the freaking guy holds the ball way too freaking long. He checks down way too much. His pocket presence stinks. He is not known as a hard worker. He threw his coaches under the bus for calling a play at the end of the game because they didn't practice it that freaking particular week [Whiner.] He has no guts. Throwing it away on 4th down, sliding down on 3rd and 2 when he had an easy 4-5 yds.
You can take your stats and put them where they belong. No sunshine there, buddy boy.
I hope he improves and if he does, I will say I was wrong. But don't try and deceive people w/BS stats. Wins matter in this league and Weeden had better talent to work w/than the guy he replaced did. Or, are you saying that Heckert did not improve the talent? LOL
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3.5ypc and 38th out of 40 qualifying RBs Trent? Yeah, he was an upgrade over 3.6ypc Hillis/Haresty...oh wait
Alfred Morris, Reggie Bush, M.Lynch and even Vic Ballard were better "QBs best firends" last season. You're up to dispute that? Good luck
yea ok. true. but I will say the same I did before. he took the pressure off the qb because he always had 1 or two defenders shadow him. they dared weeden to beat them and he did not even come close.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Sorry Vers, that crap doesn't deserve another answer
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1998 Indianapolis Colts: 3 wins
1997 Indianapolis Colts: 3 wins
Last year was an aberration for rookie QBs. Using something that will never happen again as an example is not useful.
(Side note: I am not a Weeden fan.)
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Alfred Morris, Reggie Bush, M.Lynch and even Vic Ballard were better "QBs best firends" last season. You're up to dispute that? Good luck
Are you purposely trying to make yourself look bad today? Seriously, man!
I know you watched the games. Did you NOT notice how teams stacked the LOS against the Browns because they didn't fear our passing attack?
Did you ever watch even one freaking Indy game? Did you NOT notice that every defense game-planned against him? Oh, and I gotta put this in here. Earlier, mac said that Luck held the ball too long. LMAO!!!! The guy was under constant pressure. They rushed him unmercifully. Opposing defenses did NOT respect the Colts' running game. Luck was the bravest QB in the league and he took one punishing shot after another. I actually worry that the guy won't make it as big as he should if the Colts don't seriously upgrade their OL. He was pummeled repeatedly. No running game and a poor OL. Yet, this guy leads them to 11 wins.
I like Morris, but you don't think that RGIII had something to do w/that? Seriously.
Lynch is who he is. No disputing that.
I didn't like the drafting of TRich either, but come on man, he doesn't suck. His job was actually made harder because of how bad Weeden sucked. Are you really going to deny that?
Your free run of BS days are over w/Dj. Think before you speak!
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