DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden in the Gun

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One thing I take exception to as far as your statement is this:

By the time DA had his magical season, he had been in the league for 4 seasons. He had actually played (and started) 3 games in his 3rd season. He wasn't a raw rookie .... he was a guy who had seen a great deal of the NFL. He then fell into the perfect offense for his skill set. However, even with those advantages, he still lost the pre-season "QB competition" to Frye. Then Frye imploded, DA stepped in and destroyed the Bengals defense, and history was written.

DA was a fairly experienced backup by the time he took over as the starter. He was in an even competition with Frye going into the season. He had the advantage of looking at his 1st season starting over an off-season, and working with the coaches on what he did well, and what he needed work on.

Oh, and the offense fit him.

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And in the grand scheme....

DA is younger than Weeden.

When you get down to brass tacks... statistically and rationally ... DA - right now - has a better chance to be a top flite NFL quarterback than Weeden.

Man, we get nowhere, do we?

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Here are my following opinions (with some facts thrown in):

1. Weeden is old. He is doing his best Chris Weinke impression thus far.
2. Weeden throws the football better than any QB we've had since Vinny Testaverde.
3. Weeden was a terrible fit in the WCO.
4. Weeden makes dumb decisions at times.
5. Weeden often is confused and pats and holds the ball too long.
6. Weeden can look really good out of the shotgun in a clean pocket.
7. The Norv Turner offense should fit Weeden's strengths to a tee.
8. If Weeden doesn't perform well this year he should be off the team.

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I guess the Weeden lovers are afraid of having their boy have to man up?

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Now, I am a Weeden lover?

Have you been reading this thread?

Look, I really don't care that you guys had a Weeden/Colt War on this board. I thought you may have. I even asked about it on one thread where YTown and others were slamming Colt while giving Weeden a free pass, but no one answered me. That QB War is between you guys.

I tend to think that neither guy is the answer. I tend to think that both guys had to deal w/tough circumstances. I agree w/you that Colt had less talent around him and he had to deal w/a new WCO during the lockout year, which made his situation tougher. But, he's gone. So, what's the point of hanging on to this stupid war?

It all comes down to how Weeden performs this year. Your comments about it either being a put-up or shut-up year are a little harsh. I do think we need to see progression, especially in terms of his decision making, anticipation, and pocket presence. I would also like to see just a bit of "it" from him. Despite what that one guy said who listed a lot of "ifs," I haven't seen a trace of "it."

I am not very hopeful that he is going to be a very good qb, but to blindly hate on the guy and set-up a ridiculously hard criteria w/no bending room is pure agenda. And again, that is just as bad as the guys like Dj who are making every excuse in the book for him and exaggerating how good he is.

I don't think it's fair to say that he has to play great this year or it time to cut him. I also don't think it's fair to say he is the guy if the team has more success while he doesn't improve much. I do think that we have to watch him closely and see if he is progressing in certain areas.

I do think the new offense fits him better, so his numbers should increase substantially. But, I want to see a guy who can read coverages. I guy who doesn't panic in the pocket. I want to see a guy who can read the defense at the LOS and either audible out of the play, or make a hot read or sight adjustment.

I want to see progress in the areas I have been addressing throughout this thread. I don't want it to come down to these two options:

--"His numbers went way up. He threw for more yards that Wilson. He's our franchise qb."

--"The team did not win. It's all his fault. Cut him now."

I don't see why things ALWAYS have to be so polar. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I typically try to take the minority side to stir-up debate. I think we learn when we debate topics. Learning is cool. So, by all means...continue your questioning/bashing of Weeden. All I ask is that you play fair.

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One thing I take exception to as far as your statement is this:

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That's fine, but I think you left some things out.

--We acquired DA off Baltimore's practice squad, right?

--Weeden cost us the 22nd overall pick in the first round.

--DA was much younger than Weeden was during his big year. In fact, they are the same age now. LOL

--DA had one of the greatest statistical seasons in Brown's history. I am including Otto, Sipe, Nelson, Bernie, Ryan, Vinnie, etc. I am not just talking about since 1999.

--Weeden did not have one of the greatest statistical seasons.

--DA was 10 and 5. Weeden was 5 and 10.

--The accuracy fallacy is about as absurd as it gets. I watched DA throw many, many accurate passes. Some were things of beauty that very few QBs could throw. I also saw DA throw many inaccurate passes. I have seen Weeden throw some accurate passes, but he is a very inaccurate qb on many throws. I don't get this accuracy argument that you and tab are making.

--DA threw the ball on time. Weeden was late on the majority of his throws.

--DA would actually throw the ball 12+ yards on 3rd and 11, while Weeden checked it down for a 2 yd. gain.

DA's biggest nemesis were the fans and media in Cleveland. They couldn't accept him because the majority of them were so positive that Brady Quinn was going to be a super star.

Unfortunately, DA did not have the mental toughness to become a great qb. He's gone. I don't want him back. All I know is this--agendas aside--there is no way that Weeden played as well as DA did in their first year as starters.

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I want to see progress in the areas I have been addressing throughout this thread. I don't want it to come down to these two options:

--"His numbers went way up. He threw for more yards that Wilson. He's our franchise qb."

--"The team did not win. It's all his fault. Cut him now."

I don't see why things ALWAYS have to be so polar. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I typically try to take the minority side to stir-up debate. I think we learn when we debate topics. Learning is cool. So, by all means...continue your questioning/bashing of Weeden. All I ask is that you play fair.

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All I know is this--agendas aside--there is no way that Weeden played as well as DA did in their first year as starters.

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...and who exactly is arguing that? Who is arguing that Weeden was as good a rookie QB as RG3, Luck or Wilson? Who? Nobody, you're fighting windmills, because you want to stir up agenda talk, not debate

Weeden was far from DA in his 1st season as a starter, but DA was already 2 more years in the NFL. I don't think he would have been as good as a rook as he was in 2007...if you think that makes no difference at all, then we have to agree to disagree. Experience and understanding NFL-Ds is incredibly vital for QBs entering the league, right? So why try to compare a rookie QB with a 3rd year QB? I'm the biggest Weeden pimp and I'll say it loud and clear that DA had a much better season 2007 than Weeden in 2012....it's so evident, why should anyone dispute that?

And where am I making excuses for Weeden? I was stating ALL the facts you simply left out....probably to "stir up debate" Whatever happened to "talking football"?

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To be fair - and this is just my opinion....

You tend to be a reactionary guy.

You didn't like the direction that the team was going, and you latched onto YTown's proclamation that Weeden was the cure to our ills.

YTown came to that opinion because his tunnel vision narrowed him down to anyone but McCoy was the shiny new answer.

You called him on that - and I agree with you calling him on that, I think you're right - but you got so into the debate the you took the stance that Weeden wouldn't fix things.

Again ... I agree with you. I'm with you.

But you took it to the point where now you're fed up and Weeden better put up or shut up.

And, again ... I agree. I agree 100%. But there is a method to the madness, and from my outside viewpoint ... that's where your angle started.

All our angles start somewhere.

But I disagree about what you're being accused of. I think we all have a certain bias. And IMO, that's where I think yours started from. Just a guess.

Anyway, I see where you come from, I see where others come from ... I tend to side with you, here, for the most part.

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To be fair - and this is just my opinion....

You tend to be a reactionary guy.

You didn't like the direction that the team was going, and you latched onto YTown's proclamation that Weeden was the cure to our ills.

YTown came to that opinion because his tunnel vision narrowed him down to anyone but McCoy was the shiny new answer.

You called him on that - and I agree with you calling him on that, I think you're right - but you got so into the debate the you took the stance that Weeden wouldn't fix things.

Again ... I agree with you. I'm with you.

But you took it to the point where now you're fed up and Weeden better put up or shut up.

And, again ... I agree. I agree 100%. But there is a method to the madness, and from my outside viewpoint ... that's where your angle started.

All our angles start somewhere.

But I disagree about what you're being accused of. I think we all have a certain bias. And IMO, that's where I think yours started from. Just a guess.

Anyway, I see where you come from, I see where others come from ... I tend to side with you, here, for the most part.

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Cliffs notes of the past year for the new guys.

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I don't know exactly how you meant this, but I will say, when I read it this morning, I absolutely laughed. (and I mean that in a good way. I'm quoting it for the truth of it, and the humor I found in it.)

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That's not necessarily true.

Weeden has better accuracy than DA, especially short accuracy. He leads a receiver a lot better than DA did. DA did a great job of throwing deep ...... but he struggled in many other areas.

The jury is still out on Weeden. Hopefully he'll come through .... but if not, then we start over again next year.

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Weeden is a peanut butter sandwich

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Weeden is worse then DA

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Weeden is worse then DA

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Completely disagree. Wholeheartedly.

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We'll find out by the season is up. I know I've coined Weeden a DA clone before. I saw the same qualities: strong arm, intermediate/deep accuracy, inaccurate on short routes, and questionable decision making. If Weeden is "worse" I'd say he's worse at staring down receivers which result in more blocked balls at the line. I think that was about as intolerable as Edwards' regularly dropped passes. I'm hopeful that Weeden has something more between the ears than his twin brother had. If the light bulb goes off, then we have little to worry about under center other than drafting a replacement to mold when Weeden comes up for retirement in a couple years

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A big difference between Weeden and DA is that Weeden holds the ball forever, thereby putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the OL, while DA got rid of the ball quickly--which helped the OL.

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Offense has always been there - I think last season was the first that I can remember their Offense being unsatisfactory.

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Offense has always been there - I think last season was the first that I can remember their Offense being unsatisfactory.

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... and more specifically, Rivers' production was the one that really dropped off a cliff. That guy just magically turned into a turnover machine overnight. I live here in SD, and I just couldn't figure out what happened to that guy (the only reason people can agree on is that his O-line is awful).

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