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-Sheard: Surprised he didn't lose 5-10 lbs. Surprised he didn't talk to other guys who converted.
I'm suprised that your worried about a guy who ways 255 pounds being(undersized for most OLB in a 3-4 defense right now) Your other observations I have to agree with.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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You're the second guy who mentioned that. You sure are a critical bunch. Sheesh!
Okay, I apologize. I will say I am wrong.
I was simply thinking he was going to try and make himself quicker since he was on the outside. I guess I was wrong. I'm sorry.
Better?
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Jabal Sheard was invisible last season, there were times if the camera didn't show him in the huddle I wouldn’t have even known he was playing.
You can drink the Kool Aid all you want, Jabal Sheard is entering his 3rd year with less sacks than JJ Watt , Aldon Smith, Von Miller, heck Cameron wake had last season. He is entering flat out bust territory when you consider he has been a liability against the run and oh yeah aside from that he is switching to a position he's never played. 
Troll bait...
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BpG is far from a troll. LOL.
Dude, you are a Chargers fan [supposedly] and you call a guy who has been here since the early 2000's a troll? Get real!
Regarding Sheard. I don't think he is as bad as BpG does, but he hasn't been as good as most of you think. BpG was right that he disappeared for games. He had very little impact on the games. His run defense was suspect, at best.
I still have hope for him, but questioning him doesn't make one a troll.
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--Sheard: Surprised he didn't lose 5-10 lbs. Surprised he didn't talk to other guys who converted. Surprised that they are asking him to drop into coverage. Noticed that Chud wasn't very forthcoming w/praise for Sheard. I was hoping for a smooth transition. Not so sure about that now.
Why would he? He's 6'2" 255, right?
Clay Matthews: 6'3" 255#
Brooks Reed: 6'3" 257#
Ahmad Brooks: 6'3" 259#
Aldon Smith: 6'4" 258#
Connor Barwin: 6'4" 268#
Lamarr Woodley: 6'2" 265#
Paul Kruger: 6'4" 270#
You want him to go 245?
There was an article last year saying he beefed up to 6'3 270 range because people knocked his run stopping ability. I'd rather not look it up but if you watch tape he was not the undersized DE he used to be. I'm also apparently the only one who though Sheard was above average in run defense last year but lost his quick step with his weight gain.
Last edited by predator16; 04/18/13 11:06 PM.
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He said he's "entering flat-out bust territory". Do people even know what a bust is nowadays?
This defense can do much, much worse than having Sheard as a starting OLB. Horton fielded a top defense with less in Arizona.
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I agree, he improved a lot vs the run last year, but still has work to do.
I got the 6'2" 255 from the article posted in this thread.
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Yeah no worries Steve I was just mentioning that Vers probably saw the same thing I did because he was most definitely heavier at least to start the year. Oh and the rankings on Bleacher are what made me go back and watch film to see how well his run game was. They ranked him tied for 2nd in run stopping among 43 DEs. His tape lined up. I think people got to used to hearing that he was bad and didnt do the film themselves.
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I agree that Sheard improved versus the run. I also felt our D was much more passive last year in general, especially when we lost Ward. Ward was a major key to our D and should have an even bigger role this year, if of course he can stay healthy.
Rubin played injured and then missed games. Taylor missed half the season and was just starting to get it going again the last couple games. Having Rubin and Big Phil back healthy is going to be huge and now he has Bryant rushing just inside of him. The setup is there for Sheard to have a really good year but can he rush from the weakside? Can he rush upright and wide from the backer position?
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This is also Horton's philosophy.
It's so much his philosophy that Arizona drafted Patrick Peterson...
Peterson is an above average DB; but he's a huge gambler who looks into the backfield a lot, instead of looking at his man. If you're comparing pure coverage skills, Haden and a lot others are far better.
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Which is more likely....
Your OLB getting the QB off his spot play after play after play.
A CB covering a receiver play after play after play.
I understand that we're an attacking scheme, but if we trot out the crap we have behind Haden as our #2 CB, NOBODY will be able to rush fast enough to matter.
The better the QB, the more this will bear true.
To counter your OLB, the offense just needs to start doing one of two things: run plays to his side, or put a TE or RB there to chip him.
Suddenly, he isn't going to be getting pressure consistently, and now the corners are going to be exposed.
Put a solid CB out there, and the QB has to start looking deeper into his reads on most every play... which buys the OLB's more time to get to the QB.
You're misrepresenting what actually happens.
More likely between a front four, whether that be the 4 DL in a 4-3 or 3 DL and LB in a 3-4 getting consistent pressure to throw off the QB and help out the back 7.
OR
Back 7 covering so long that you eventually get coverage sacks.
The Giants and Steelers would like to have a word with you on which system seems to be more effective.
Proud fan of the Pulaski Academy football strategy.
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The Sheard comments either way are starting to make me nervous as it could signal him being on the trade block. If we draft a pass rusher at 6 and sell out Sheard for a 2nd, then I'll be fuming. That'd be a backwards fumble in value management
Sometimes you make zero sense.
We just did the exact same thing in signing Bryant. Although noone's been moved. YET.
And there is zero wrong with replacing an AVERAGE 2nd round DE who is transitioning to OLB with what we believe to be a potential STUD.
2 things WOULD PO me though.
If this #6 pick is Mingo or Anzah.
Good thing is though that we're rumored to be locked in on Jordan or Milliner, or we're moving down.
And don't come back with this if we were one player away it would be OK BS.
You NEVER pass up an opportunity to go from AVERAGE to DOMINANT at ANY position.
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Sometimes you make zero sense.
We just did the exact same thing in signing Bryant. Although noone's been moved. YET.
Umm, no we did NOT. Bryant was a FA, we just spent money on him we had to spend anyway (and still have to)....if we pick a pass rusher at 6 or mid-1s to replace Sheard, then, well, we have spent a Top 10 pick. You know the "difference" between signing a FA and spending a top 10 pick, do you? 
I also vehemently disagree that Sheard is only AVG...you guys should look at all 4-3 DEs drafted in the top 50, forget it, make that 1st round the past 5 drafts and see how they "developed"...remember those "potential studs" Gholston? or Jamaal Anderson? Jarvis Moss? Derrick Harvey? Aaron Maybin? B.Graham? Derrick Morgan?
Trading away a 23yo already above AVG DE that is clearly improving and entering his 3rd season for a "potential" boom/bust is stupid enough, but to pay a MUCH higher price on that "50-50 gamble" (top 10 pick) then getting back (late 1st/2nd) would be flat out idiotic and exactly what perennial losing teams would do (see Chiefs if they really trade Albert for a 2nd just to replace him with a 1st overall selection...LT never was the problem for them, yet here they are wasting a 1st overalll value on it, lol)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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With the Browns moving Phil to nose, I would not be the least bit surprised if we arent looking to trade Rubin. I know the Browns are high on Winn and they spent a lot of cash on Bryant and we have also been looking hard at the 3-4 DE types.
It just feels like they are setting up another trade with the 49ers. I thought it was going to be a big trade down but I get the feeling Rubin for a 2nd is coming. That would put Floyd and Star back in the mix at 6.
Stirring the pot before the draft, since I will be at work Thursday and wont get to watch lol
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Pretty much the same applies to Rubin and DE...it makes a little bit more sense because of his contract (then again, it's not like we'Re up against the cap, lol),but still, Rube's 26yo....it just doesn't make sense to move a player you've developed and is pretty good just for more developmental talent you have to pay a higher price for...it's just incredibly stupid imho
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Also 15 sacks in two seasons? Are you serious? This isn't 1985, there were 4 players who had more sacks LAST YEAR than he had in two seasons. There were at least two pure defensive tackles last year with more sacks, Geno Atkins had 12.5!!! You don't get 5 years to develop anymore, you get 2 years to show some promise. Jabal Sheard was invisible last season, there were times if the camera didn't show him in the huddle I wouldn’t have even known he was playing.
You can drink the Kool Aid all you want, Jabal Sheard is entering his 3rd year with less sacks than JJ Watt , Aldon Smith, Von Miller, heck Cameron wake had last season. He is entering flat out bust territory when you consider he has been a liability against the run and oh yeah aside from that he is switching to a position he's never played.
I will say this... Paul Kruger had less stats than Sheard and he just got a mega contract. I don't understand how you could put Sheard in the bust category when he has better stats than Kruger in almost every single category. He is far from bust.. imo
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Which is more likely....
Your OLB getting the QB off his spot play after play after play.
A CB covering a receiver play after play after play.
I understand that we're an attacking scheme, but if we trot out the crap we have behind Haden as our #2 CB, NOBODY will be able to rush fast enough to matter.
The better the QB, the more this will bear true.
To counter your OLB, the offense just needs to start doing one of two things: run plays to his side, or put a TE or RB there to chip him.
Suddenly, he isn't going to be getting pressure consistently, and now the corners are going to be exposed.
Put a solid CB out there, and the QB has to start looking deeper into his reads on most every play... which buys the OLB's more time to get to the QB.
You're misrepresenting what actually happens.
More likely between a front four, whether that be the 4 DL in a 4-3 or 3 DL and LB in a 3-4 getting consistent pressure to throw off the QB and help out the back 7.
OR
Back 7 covering so long that you eventually get coverage sacks.
The Giants and Steelers would like to have a word with you on which system seems to be more effective.
I fully understand what happens, but we're speaking to what ONE part will have the greater impact. Adding one to the front 7, or adding one to the back 4.... when the back 4 already has a couple of gigantic gaping holes while we've already invested several times this off-season in the front 7.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Also 15 sacks in two seasons? Are you serious? This isn't 1985, there were 4 players who had more sacks LAST YEAR than he had in two seasons. There were at least two pure defensive tackles last year with more sacks, Geno Atkins had 12.5!!! You don't get 5 years to develop anymore, you get 2 years to show some promise. Jabal Sheard was invisible last season, there were times if the camera didn't show him in the huddle I wouldn’t have even known he was playing.
You can drink the Kool Aid all you want, Jabal Sheard is entering his 3rd year with less sacks than JJ Watt , Aldon Smith, Von Miller, heck Cameron wake had last season. He is entering flat out bust territory when you consider he has been a liability against the run and oh yeah aside from that he is switching to a position he's never played.
I will say this... Paul Kruger had less stats than Sheard and he just got a mega contract. I don't understand how you could put Sheard in the bust category when he has better stats than Kruger in almost every single category. He is far from bust.. imo
This is not entirely directed at you....
Hold on now, I never said Kruger was a world beater either. In fact I think we slightly overpaid for a situational player. With that said, Kruger played a lot of snaps last year and got better as the year and the playoffs went on.
Can you say the same about Sheard? The words "give up" aren't the right ones and I wouldn't say he did, but I certainly wouldn’t ear mark sheard for his intensity, I would with Kruger.
lol Troll bait from a Charger fan. Sheard WAS invisible last season for LONG stretches, there wasn't a single game where I was like "wow Jabal Sheard really wreaking havoc". Phil Taylor? Yeah that dude can play, when he came back from his injury you could see the energy pickup and teams had to adjust to his play and intensity.
More times than not, when I saw Sheard it was either getting stonewalled or mopping up some slop coverage sack. We're talking about a guy who went into the year on a lot of peoples "players to watch" list, who had two big time defensive tackles at his side to regressing from his rookie season in almost every statistical category and the most important category of all, the eye test. Go ahead, tell me he was passing your eye test so I know who to not read anymore.
You can disagree but acting like we have a premade answer at OLB is questionable at best.
You guys are right, "entering bust territory" might be too harsh, but a 2nd round pick with 15 sacks in two full seasons isn't exactly a "boom".
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This is also Horton's philosophy.
It's so much his philosophy that Arizona drafted Patrick Peterson...
Peterson is an above average DB; but he's a huge gambler who looks into the backfield a lot, instead of looking at his man. If you're comparing pure coverage skills, Haden and a lot others are far better.
This has nothing to do with why I posted that.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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You can drink the Kool Aid all you want
Btw...I know you did not mean it that way but I've always taken this saying to be so insulting n actually taking a Suicide potion would fit more the negative poster than the Positive one...lol  Preference of insult would be HOMER Actually I take that as a compliment.
In regards to your STATS explaining Sheard's full worth.
1. Got to include we did not have another Pass rusher on the DL especially on the opposite Edge...clearly Sheard was game planned as our only Pass Rush threat.
2. Also in the sake of STATS defining ones worth - compared with the rest of the NFL Big Sack Guys...did they have a high scoring Offense? where teams were behind n pass rushers could just pin their ears back. We had one of the LEAST THREATENING OFFENSES in the NFL.
Just saying there are a lot of Variables in the making of STATS as the end all HE MUST NOT BE THAT GOOD.
True I am a Homer but I do go back on the only OPINION out there that I heard spoken of Sheard...a pretty descent one out of the Talking Heads, Charlie Casserly - he stated that Sheard definite was worth a late First Round pick for a 4-3 team with Need! Not my HOMERISTIC words but his. If there was a guy out there stating...pffft Sheard you'd be lucky to get a 4th for him, I might tend to think hey MAYBE BPG is correct. All I got is that 1st rounder at a time when draft picks are valued at their highest!
JMHO sorry no suicide drink here.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You're not wrong at all. Everything you mentioned was valid. He just doesn't pass the eye test to this point. Maybe adding Kruger to the other edge is all he needs, I don't buy that but it's feasible. Maybe not having to play the run as much will be good for his burst? God I hope so...
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Honestly...I think he's a better football player than what we think...but agree with you I don't think he's a Straw to stir the Drink type of guy...he will be as good as the D around him nothing less nothing more. But a good NFL starter.
Put him opposite Ware n have Spencer as the SAM LB in Dallas' new 4-3 I think he can be a stud.
I have no clue how he will transition to our 3-4. He seems very intelligent n catches on quickly. Again my hopes are that we Strike gold with a STUD Edge Rusher for our NEW D early in the draft - Down to 2 Ansah n Jordan. If we do not trade Sheard (last I looked Casserly was not running any team) I would love the prospects of him moving to ILB with DQ...still attack with him Inside. I mean it might not work in the transition...BUT it can just as easily work...Attacking with Ansah/Jordan, DQ, Sheard n Kruger...would be Awesome. Add Ward n our talented DL...hey we are not as far away as some might think...hard for a realist to believe cause I understand our recent history. But it could be FUN 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And that's the key to the defense this year. Sure, Horton's bringing the Blitzburgh defense to Cleveland. But that doesn't mean we'll be ranked in the top five in this first year. There's a lot of learning to do and likely some new additions next season once we see from this season who doesn't fit.
It'll take a few seasons to be the defense we're so excited so see. Still, with the enthusiasm tempered a bit we can watch it all develop and hope for some quick progress.
I'm going to go back to PPE's comments and combine them with yours ddub.
This is the main reason I feel the CB is more important than another pass rusher "right away".
It seems many are a little overly enthusiastic as to how quickly this D will come together as a unit and how effective we will be with this consistant pressure on opposing QB's.
Drafting a CB or signing one would go a long way in helping this D until such time two or three years down the road when it all comes together.
All of these blitzing packages and the personnel to make them work isn't going to happen overnight as some would try to persuade others into believing.
Both positions will have to be addressed. But in the short term over the next few years, I think your point, which is well made, indicates that if we have a shot at a highly qualified candidate at the CB position it would be a better option at this juncture and stage of building this D.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You guys are right, "entering bust territory" might be too harsh, but a 2nd round pick with 15 sacks in two full seasons isn't exactly a "boom".
Busts are Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Vernon Gholston, Larry English, etc. Sheard is nowhere close to that, based on both draft position and production. Saying he's entering "bust territory" isn't just too harsh, it's pure blasphemy.
Furthermore, nobody said he's a "boom". Why you compared to him to Von Miller, Aldon Smith, J.J. Watt, and Cameron Wake (who you're hilariously dismissive of, by the way), nobody will ever know. Those guys are the best of the best. GMs don't draft players in the second round, fully expecting them to be as good as those guys.
I'm really shocked at how delusional fans can be sometimes. They act like a GM has completely failed if he doesn't draft DPOY candidates on a yearly basis. Players like Sheard aren't "home runs", but they are what 32 out of 32 teams would consider to be a "hit".
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Don't parade on his rain.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Actually, they are "home runs"... they're just not "Grand Slams".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You're the second guy who mentioned that. You sure are a critical bunch. Sheesh!
Okay, I apologize. I will say I am wrong.
I was simply thinking he was going to try and make himself quicker since he was on the outside. I guess I was wrong. I'm sorry.
Better?
Nope not better bro you know me better than that. I was just asking I disagreed with you no biggie I could be right or I could be wrong.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think Sheard will be fine at OLB. Teams caught on to him and paid attention to him. his production dropped and they lightened up on him and he began to produce.
What I just dont understand is the Bash on DQ in the 3-4. He has become a smarter player since then. 2 of the 5 years we ran it he was injured with the torn pecs. his first year under it was his rookie year. by the 3rd of being in it he put up huge numbers.
I do not have the info in front of me but I am sure we are going to fielding a better fron 3 in front of him and looks like we will have better lb's surrounding him. So IMO I think he is going to excel this time around.
my only worries are the other ILB he going to be paired with and hope one of the guys we currently have on the roster step up.
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J/C
Anyone who thought sheard isn't a serious question mark before the draft is probably reconsidering their scouting skills after the draft. He is at best a situational player with the drafting of Mingo.
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J/C
Anyone who thought sheard isn't a serious question mark before the draft is probably reconsidering their scouting skills after the draft. He is at best a situational player with the drafting of Mingo.
Which is awesome, because Mingo is a situational player, too.
So, we've got that going for us
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/C
Anyone who thought sheard isn't a serious question mark before the draft is probably reconsidering their scouting skills after the draft. He is at best a situational player with the drafting of Mingo.
Which is awesome, because Mingo is a situational player, too.
So, we've got that going for us
Ha, KeKe is going to be the starter for no other reason than he has burst and counter moves. I never saw burst or counter moves from Sheard. At least we know what Mingo is, Sheard is a tweener on almost everything and special at nothing.
With our D-linemen KeKe should show flashes of Aldon Smith this season.
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At least we know what Mingo is, Sheard is a tweener on almost everything and special at nothing.
I'm not sure what we've really got with either one of them being that BOTH will be changing positions to something they've never done.
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With our D-linemen KeKe should show flashes of Aldon Smith this season.
This sentence gave me a mental image of him holding up flash cards with pictures of Aldon Smith on them.
I need sleep, or coffee 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Cool read about DQ.
I think it's definitely a bonus that if we are going to be one of those defenses that throws multiple fronts at you, that our best linebacker, and pretty much captain of the defense has experience in different schemes. The guy has been through a lot in his time as a Brown.
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so, our 4 best LBers (at the moment) seem to be (in no order): Kruger, DQ, Mingo, Sheard
Who plays ILB w/ DQ if we decide to go with all 4 at once? I would guess Sheard.
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patterson imo, fort on some downs............
edit, what I mean is I doubt all four will play at once. If so I'd go with Sheard inside as well. He's got the size for it.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 04/26/13 03:15 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
J/C
Anyone who thought sheard isn't a serious question mark before the draft is probably reconsidering their scouting skills after the draft. He is at best a situational player with the drafting of Mingo.
Which is awesome, because Mingo is a situational player, too.
So, we've got that going for us
I actually thought that Sheard was safe this year, but I have to ask now, do the leaders in Berea see it that way? I dunno
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
patterson imo, fort on some downs............
robertson and fort are likely the starting ILB, yes. but, Horton likes to mix-n-match a bunch and I'd bet he tries to get our 4 "best" LBers on the field at times.
just wondering who people thought might be the one that moves inside when that happens (though we'd likely have more of a 4-3 look on those downs and that player would still be outside)
#gmstrong
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I see him being in on the first two downs, then switching in Bark for the passing downs.
Run = Sheard
Pass= Mingo.
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no logo, I got the name wrong......thanks for not smacking me silly. I misread your initial post. Then I tried to clarify editing to agree with you in who would go inside. You are correct imo.
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and if we went to a 4-3 look wouldn't Sheard be DE?
I'm pretty excited wondering what Horton will do with all these players. I have a feeling we are going to make a big jump this year.
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