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I've started this post in years past about this time of year.
I'm curious who you think we could/would trade before or during the draft next week.
The guy has to actually be tradeable - meaning we would actually part with him and someone would actually want him. (So no mention of Joe Thomas or Ryan Miller types.)
It does not have to be a guy YOU wish to trade...just a guy we could live without and has value to someone else.
I will say this...I think we have more candidates this year than we've had since the return.
I'll start by saying Sheard. I know he played standing up a lot last year...I just think he's more valuable to a 4-3 team than he will be for us at OLB. His switching sides - again - is concerning to me.
If we think he will simply be 'ok' as an OLB, I'd take that late 1st that is mentioned on the internet and fill another hole.
If we keep him, I hope I am proven wrong.
Who you got?
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Frankly, I'm not trading anyone with potential.
That means that we don't trade Rubin, or Sheard, or any other similar player.
Further, as I look at our roster, I see only 14 players with more than 4 years experience. We have a ton of young players, who are hopefully up and coming. I count Sheard in this group. It does us little harm to see if he can make the transition to OLB, and, in fact, it would be incredible for this team if he can. If he can't, then we trade him after camp, or early in the season, and gain an asset for next year. No real harm done.
What I don't get is the philosophy some have of creating a hole just to gain an asset that will have to plug the hole that we just created. Some want to trade Rubin, for example, a plus level DL, who has proven capable of playing in any defense so far ...... just to add a draft pick so that we can replace him. That is absolutely senseless to me. If Rubin were slipping, or if we had a player behind him who we felt he was blocking, then that would be one thing ..... but that's not the case here. Rubin is a high quality player, and we have no one behind him ready to take his place as a full time starter.
I might trade Marecic .... if I could bet any takers at all. Maybe Harbaugh in Frisco might like to have his college player back at his side. That might be a possibility.
We might trade a young LB, like Fort, who proved that he can be an effective backup in the 4-3, but who might not have a position in the 3-4. We would probably only get a conditional 7th round pick if we did though.
In short, if we make any trades, I expect that they will be the small kind. Now, obviously, if we were to draft a QB high, then I would expect us to try and find a new home for Weeden .... but that's probably the biggest type deal I can see us making.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is a year to evaluate the players in their new roles. I don't trade anybody, period, until I'm certain that they don't fit into the plans going forward.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't want to trade anyone, and agree 100% with the previous posters.
That said, I predict a Sheard for a 2nd trade, which Lombardi uses to trade for Mallett....so essentially swapping those two players
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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These are NOT people I want traded..
But they are people we could part with if we get something worthwhile in exchange..
Sheard
Rubin
Hughes
Taylor
I'd want a lot for Sheard or Rubin and would take no less than 1st rounder for Taylor. Hughes is a guy that might fetch something in the middle rounds. Probably not worth trading at this point.
I honestly don't think any of them will be traded and again, I don't want to trade any of them But I think that the Browns could lose any one of them and get something worthwhile.
On Offense Weeden is the only guy I would think could be traded but the Browns would have to have a plan for this year because there isn't anything in the that can start right away unless you go with Geno Smith and I'm not sure he can start year one either.
I'd almost rather find a way to get a second this year and an additional first for next year in case Weeden doesn't show promise.
Not sure how to accomplish that. Maybe give up our 6th overall pick for a 1st round pick lower than 28 and a first next year. Dunno if that works out.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I would not trade anybody at all. I would be sick to my stomach if we trade Taylor/Rubin/Sheard especially. They are all good, young players who have more value to us than a 3rd rounder (or even 2nd). I'd like to try and trade back from 6 to acquire a 2nd rounder, and then select the BPA at each spot (focusing on CB, FS, OG, TE, LB). Give this team as much talent as possible for this season.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
I would not trade anybody at all. I would be sick to my stomach if we trade Taylor/Rubin/Sheard especially. They are all good, young players who have more value to us than a 3rd rounder (or even 2nd). I'd like to try and trade back from 6 to acquire a 2nd rounder, and then select the BPA at each spot (focusing on CB, FS, OG, TE, LB). Give this team as much talent as possible for this season.
Then we agree, I don't want them traded either.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Sorry not to specify Daman ... I was J/C
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
I might trade Marecic .... if I could get any takers at all.
lmfao! Yeah I would ship him and a fifth round pick for nothing just so that we don't have to watch him play for us anymore.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
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j/c
So...let's say our favorite pass rushing OLB is sitting there at #6 - whomever that may be - and someone is willing to give us a late 1st for Sheard. I'd have a tough time NOT pulling that trigger. (And I really like Sheard.)
Sheard for Jordan and a late first? (Sort of...because the pick we get makes it less necessary to trade down from #6 to recoup a 2nd.) We create a hole (maybe we already have one there though) and plug two holes.
Insert Star Louteli (sp?) et al for Jordan if you like. In any event, it gets us back that coveted 2nd Rdr - or better - and for a guy who just might not be able to make the switch.
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2nd String
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j/c
I wouldn't trade anyone because the team trading the player for the draft pick usually gets the raw end of the deal. I do think, however, this thread shows how strange the Bryant signing was. There's three slots on the defensive line, and yet the Browns have six guys that can play them. The Browns have more talent on their defensive line than any other 3-4 team in the league by far. It's not even close.
...and yet they have no starting CB2 or FS. Strange.
Also, I don't completely hate the Bryant signing. I think he's going to be very good here. BUT, I can't be the only one who thinks it was very strange.
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Quote:
j/c
So...let's say our favorite pass rushing OLB is sitting there at #6 - whomever that may be - and someone is willing to give us a late 1st for Sheard. I'd have a tough time NOT pulling that trigger. (And I really like Sheard.)
Sheard for Jordan and a late first? (Sort of...because the pick we get makes it less necessary to trade down from #6 to recoup a 2nd.) We create a hole (maybe we already have one there though) and plug two holes.
Insert Star Louteli (sp?) et al for Jordan if you like. In any event, it gets us back that coveted 2nd Rdr - or better - and for a guy who just might not be able to make the switch.
You say Sheard may not be able to make the switch,, But getting a guy in the draft isn't a guarantee either. I'll take the bird in hand..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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There are only two who are on the trade block I believe and of course it all relies on what could be gained in return. Of course Rubin and Sheard are the ones I speak of. I personally could care less about what I want because it doesn't matter. The way to look at this is from the eyes of the new staff.
You take Jabaal. In two years he's had 15 sacks but has become a great run defender. For a DE he is cerebral. He has limited but good potential. He is not a 15 sack+ guy he is a 8-12 sack compliment(as is Kruger). He is not a freak athlete. He has never covered in his life. He had trouble rushing from the blindside which is where he will have to play. This is how they will view him.
Now they will also consider what could be had for him. If your ATL and you cannot leave the 1st round without a DE and the likes of Alex Okafor and Sam Montgomery are those remaining guess what? Sheard is worth your pick. He has a similar ceiling. No bust potential. And no learning curve. He is worth a 1st to a playoff team needing a hole filled right away to help with a playoff run.
You have to also consider that a new regime has their choice practically of the OLB at #6. So essentially by trading Jabaal you could have your choice of his replacement with a higher chance of grabbing a star(all GMs will think they are grabbing a star its a pride thing) with that high pick and also get a coveted late pick to fill possibly the CB hole with a decent prospect or S, OG or TE gap with a great prospect.
Now for Rubin I think you'll get much less in return. I don't think it's worth it to trade him. I think a team like the Buccs could offer a 3rd for him and that's it. Sure he might not be the athletic freak preferred in Hortons system and he may be overrated around here but he's a solid above average starter. The way I see it him and Sheard are the same talent level as of now. Sheard is young, on rookie contract and has upside. Rubin is still a good player but he costs $ and is as good as he will get which to me will never be a top 15 at his position. He floats between 15 and 20 I think.
So because of these reasons I trade Sheard if I am correct on what could be had. I love the guy I just think if I had the choice between him and being able to grab a freak OLB and use his pick on a freak FS it makes the team better than taking a chance on him switching to OLB. I think this is also how the FO will see it as it puts emotion aside and straight to business. FOr the record with that scenario I take a trip to LSU for a Mingo and Reid reunion. Horton would be salivating. Rubin is not worth a trade and he is cemented as a mainstay and is a help in the locker room.
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Quote:
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j/c
So...let's say our favorite pass rushing OLB is sitting there at #6 - whomever that may be - and someone is willing to give us a late 1st for Sheard. I'd have a tough time NOT pulling that trigger. (And I really like Sheard.)
Sheard for Jordan and a late first? (Sort of...because the pick we get makes it less necessary to trade down from #6 to recoup a 2nd.) We create a hole (maybe we already have one there though) and plug two holes.
Insert Star Louteli (sp?) et al for Jordan if you like. In any event, it gets us back that coveted 2nd Rdr - or better - and for a guy who just might not be able to make the switch.
You say Sheard may not be able to make the switch,, But getting a guy in the draft isn't a guarantee either. I'll take the bird in hand..
I hear you...I just think your bird might actually be in the bush.
Two birds in the bush...versus one bird in the bush?
Maybe...maybe not? I like two choices though.
Which bird is more in the hand? Sheard at OLB or Starlite Lotulelei at DE plus say...Trufant?
Last edited by WSU Willie; 04/20/13 12:57 PM.
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Now they will also consider what could be had for him. If your ATL and you cannot leave the 1st round without a DE and the likes of Alex Okafor and Sam Montgomery are those remaining guess what? Sheard is worth your pick. He has a similar ceiling. No bust potential. And no learning curve. He is worth a 1st to a playoff team needing a hole filled right away to help with a playoff run.
If the Falcons or Broncos offered their first round pick for Sheard, that would would be amazing. I see them offering their second round picks as more likely, though. But we'll see. It's really tough to judge players' trade values.
EDIT: I can totally see the Lions offering their second round pick for Sheard as well.
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Now for Rubin I think you'll get much less in return. I don't think it's worth it to trade him. I think a team like the Buccs could offer a 3rd for him and that's it.
I'd trade Rubin...but for nothing less than a top half of the second round pick. Otherwise, I keep him.
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Quote:
Quote:
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j/c
So...let's say our favorite pass rushing OLB is sitting there at #6 - whomever that may be - and someone is willing to give us a late 1st for Sheard. I'd have a tough time NOT pulling that trigger. (And I really like Sheard.)
Sheard for Jordan and a late first? (Sort of...because the pick we get makes it less necessary to trade down from #6 to recoup a 2nd.) We create a hole (maybe we already have one there though) and plug two holes.
Insert Star Louteli (sp?) et al for Jordan if you like. In any event, it gets us back that coveted 2nd Rdr - or better - and for a guy who just might not be able to make the switch.
You say Sheard may not be able to make the switch,, But getting a guy in the draft isn't a guarantee either. I'll take the bird in hand..
I hear you...I just think your bird might actually be in the bush.
Two birds in the bush...versus one bird in the bush?
Maybe...maybe not? I like two choices though.
Which bird is more in the hand? Sheard at OLB or Starlite Lotulelei at DE plus say...Trufant?
Well, there's an argument neither of us can win 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Probably nobody. The players who have real value would mostly be considered untouchable to us. You might see some smaller trades like the Colt deal. There might be a couple exceptions in the front 7, but we would probably be disappointed in what we could get for some of those players, despite what Charlie Casserly might say. I seriously doubt we could get a late 1st for Sheard. Not that he isn't worth it, but it has been a weird market especially for defensive players. If I were a GM I would just sign a guy like Kruger, Dumervil, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril etc. to a very reasonable contract and keep my early pick. That's just me though. NFL GMs may feel differently (not saying that disparagingly; he probably is the most likely notable player to be traded.) And trading Sheard for a pick then using the #6 on a pass rusher is actually using #6 + Sheard for pass rusher + pick. You can't just ignore the #6 overall pick in that equation lol. Just keep him. See what he can do. Most GMs value their picks and never moreso than right before the draft. It's rare to get full value trading solid players in the NFL. And if Owen Marecic is worth a draft pick then so am I.
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One other thing about Sheard is this ......
He went online to get playbooks so that he could have a better idea of what would be required of him, and so that he could start learning techniques. That's a committed player, and a guy who wants to do well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And trading Sheard for a pick then using the #6 on a pass rusher is actually using #6 + Sheard for pass rusher + pick.
And if we think Sheard can't make the switch? Then we are giving up nothing-to-us for a decent pick.
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One other thing about Sheard is this ......
He went online to get playbooks so that he could have a better idea of what would be required of him, and so that he could start learning techniques. That's a committed player, and a guy who wants to do well.
That is the type of player I want on my team... and all the more reason not to trade him just to trade him.
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Quote:
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One other thing about Sheard is this ......
He went online to get playbooks so that he could have a better idea of what would be required of him, and so that he could start learning techniques. That's a committed player, and a guy who wants to do well.
That is the type of player I want on my team... and all the more reason not to trade him just to trade him.
Is someone on here suggesting we 'trade-him-just-to-trade-him'?
Kenard Lang was pretty darn committed too...and a great cheerleader to boot. But he couldn't make the switch.
Not saying Sheard can't make the switch. I've already stated that I think he can make the switch...but if we think he cannot...or even doubt that he can...I'd move him for the kind of pricetag floating around.
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I'm not saying that the Browns could even receive a late-first or early-second round pick for Sheard (like I've stated up-thread, it's iffy), but if they did, they need to take that deal.
Mingo and Jordan's respective risk levels go down a lot in they're drafted by the Browns. There's no other team in the NFL that provides as good of an opportunity for a natural 3-4 OLB than Cleveland at the moment. An immensely creative 3-4 defensive coordinator in Ray Horton and an absolutely loaded defensive line like this one provides a great opportunity for any high-upside guys like those two. In other words, going to Cleveland puts either of them in the greatest position possible to succeed. So if you can trade Sheard for that late-first/early-second, you do it. Because Mingo/Jordan's upsides are 20 sacks and good in coverage, no exaggeration. Sheard's ceiling is 8-12 sacks and good against the run, as others have said.
Draft D.J. Hayden (my preference) or Trufant (even if he can't tackle) with the late-first/early-second round pick and this defense is set for many, many years.
But like I said, I really don't know if they could get that much for Sheard.
Last edited by PowderBlue11; 04/20/13 01:43 PM.
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The difference is this though .....
Sheard is a very young player, with a solid track record. He is only 23 years old. If he plays a year in the 3-4, and can't adapt, he's not going to be damaged. His value won't be destroyed. He'd still be a very good 4-3 DE, even if he failed as a 3-4 OLB. He'd also be under contract for another season, so he'd have value to a 4-3 team if we had to move him during this season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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One other thing about Sheard is this ......
He went online to get playbooks so that he could have a better idea of what would be required of him, and so that he could start learning techniques. That's a committed player, and a guy who wants to do well.
That is the type of player I want on my team... and all the more reason not to trade him just to trade him.
Is someone on here suggesting we 'trade-him-just-to-trade-him'?
Kenard Lang was pretty darn committed too...and a great cheerleader to boot. But he couldn't make the switch.
Not saying Sheard can't make the switch. I've already stated that I think he can make the switch...but if we think he cannot...or even doubt that he can...I'd move him for the kind of pricetag floating around.
fair enough.. I probably got a little carried away with that. I don't know what the offers are and I don't know what the coaching staff thinks about his viability in a hybrid D.
I do have a pretty good idea of past precedent in trades and trades involving a 1st round pick's worth of value for a player usually involves (projected) starting QBs or superstar players like Percy Harvin or Darrelle Revis. Heck we all saw what Anquan Boldin did in the playoffs but because he's 32, he got traded for a 6th (!) round draft pick. You just don't usually get full value by trading players in the NFL. Now if the front office has an offer for a 1st/early 2nd round pick AND they think of him as a pure 4-3 DE then ya you have to take that deal. I think a guy like Horton can use his skillset well and there probably won't be such an early offer but that's just my best guess.
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The difference is this though .....
Sheard is a very young player, with a solid track record. He is only 23 years old. If he plays a year in the 3-4, and can't adapt, he's not going to be damaged. His value won't be destroyed. He'd still be a very good 4-3 DE, even if he failed as a 3-4 OLB. He'd also be under contract for another season, so he'd have value to a 4-3 team if we had to move him during this season.
I can certainly see that possibility...especially given his age and contract as you've mentioned.
I'm more thinking that if Horton has looked at tape and worked with him at the minicamp...and decided that it's unlikely to happen...and his value is higher now than next year as a DE...he's likely to be traded.
Unless - of course - he pans out and effectively makes the switch.
I wouldn't take less than a top 10 2nd Rd pick for him though...unless Horton says he's never going to be a viable OLB for us.
I'll say too that the multi-front scheme we hear about allows Sheard and Rubin to mix in the parts of the game they 'know'...with the parts of the game they are converting-to.
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Now if the front office has an offer for a 1st/early 2nd round pick AND they think of him as a pure 4-3 DE then ya you have to take that deal. I think a guy like Horton can use his skillset well and there probably won't be such an early offer but that's just my best guess.
I do not personally think we'd get a 1st Rd pick for Sheard...unless it was very late in the Round...or we threw in a later pick somewhere.
I understand that that undermines my point...but this is all just for discussion anyway.
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Agreed. No truth to rumor that he has been kept because his play promotes beer sales. Creating trades for crapshoot replacements seems dumb. With all the new coaching, this is a year to keep any marginals and see what they do in a system which might help them shine (when used correctly more in line with their skills set). I hope some good players emerge and develop further when coached up better and/or differently. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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There's three slots on the defensive line, and yet the Browns have six guys that can play them.
This is a good thing.
How often in the past are we killed late in games because we lack depth on the D-Line and can't get any kind of push late in games cuz our guys our gasping for air?
I'm of the opinion that you can never have 'too many' defensive linemen.
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There's three slots on the defensive line, and yet the Browns have six guys that can play them.
This is a good thing.
How often in the past are we killed late in games because we lack depth on the D-Line and can't get any kind of push late in games cuz our guys our gasping for air?
I'm of the opinion that you can never have 'too many' defensive linemen.
As long as we aren't constantly torched by opposing QBs all season-long (as a result of spending money on one unit as opposed to another), I'm fine with it.
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Legend
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Legend
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It's not like we chose to use money for DL over CB, we had plenty of it..
I think we went hard after Grimes, but he went to Miami (Who doesn't?)
And I assume they have a CB/FS plan going into the draft...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Mar 2013
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
It's not like we chose to use money for DL over CB, we had plenty of it..
I think we went hard after Grimes, but he went to Miami (Who doesn't?)
It's not like there weren't 6 or 7 other guys besides Grimes. This is off-topic, though. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up.
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
There's three slots on the defensive line, and yet the Browns have six guys that can play them.
This is a good thing.
How often in the past are we killed late in games because we lack depth on the D-Line and can't get any kind of push late in games cuz our guys our gasping for air?
I'm of the opinion that you can never have 'too many' defensive linemen.
I hear you...however...we won't likely carry more than (6)...and even at (6) we could see only (5) active on gameday. ST may dictate that an extra LB is active over the 6th DL.
I think this helps make Rubin a possible trade piece as well. I'd much rather have him work out at DE than have to roll with someone else (unknown) or take a late round flyer on a backup DE...but if he brings a 2nd Rd pick...I dunno
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Great Post. I really like it!
I do not see any players being traded though.
I feel that Dee Milliner is the pick and if he is gone they will try to trade down to get more picks.
Here are the scenerios that I see that could cause some possible player movement.
1) If the FO wants to marry theirselves to a new QB and take Geno Smith then Weeds will be shopped. I do not feel the FO wants to marry theirselves to Geno.
2) Milliner is gone before the Browns select and no trade downs options become viable. Then they select either Dion Jordan, Star Lotulelei, or Shariff Floyd falls to #6 then Jabaal Sheard or Ahtyba Rubin could be shopped. Late first or 2nd round only. The team has plenty of cap space to be deep at those positions in 2013.
3) If an OG is selected then Pinkston, Lauvao, or Greco could get moved for a late round selection.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Browns need Dion Jordan or Dee Milliner at 6 or a trade down scenario, hopefully to 11 or 12 with San Diego or Miami, netting us a second rounder so they can grab Lane Johnson.
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I hope we trade no one. It's amazing these types of threads are the most popular.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
I hope we trade no one.
Me too.
By the way, this thread only has 37 replies, so you don't have to lose your faith in humanity just yet.
Last edited by clevesteve; 04/20/13 07:55 PM.
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Quote:
I hope we trade no one. It's amazing these types of threads are the most popular.
Thanks for the input there Vers...very insightful...I'm surprised that you passed on an opprtunity to discuss football players on our team the week before the draft.
It was your perfect opportunity to rail-on against HH&S. 
Given the number of responses, I'd hardly call "threads like this one" the most popular.
Not to mention that I didn't ask for a player one would 'hope' we trade.
There is not ONE player on the team right now who you think could be moved? Heckert must have done one helluva job these past few years. 
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope we trade no one.
Me too.
By the way, this thread only has 37 replies, so you don't have to lose your faith in humanity just yet.
More useful insight...and edited for added effect no less.
You are a draft guru and are not interested in moving some players who may not fit for new guys who just may fit...and whom you've scouted?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
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I'm not a draft guru. I was trying to politely point out to vers that his complaint was not well-supported by statistics.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who you gonna trade?
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