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I love the Browns talent and depth on the D-line and that is one of the strengths of the team. We're missing a guy who you can just turn lose and wreak havoc though. Like what line is more effective, Rubin, Taylor, Bryant, or JJ Watt and 2 guys? (and Antonio Smith is no slouch himself.)
Get a guy like Watt or Geno Atkins or Von Miller and this defense would be really scary. You could plug any of those guys in any scheme and the result is the same. But yeah those types don't come along too often obviously.
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To me, we already made our trade. It was Colt McCoy.
As many have said, I don't see trading someone with NFL talent and experience for a draft pick. UNLESS this FO sees someone as a square peg in a round hole, I don't look for such a trade.
I will say the signing of Bryant does make us top heavy at the DL position, so a trade may be in the works. But having talent on the DL isn't a bad thing. We don't know how this FO and coaching staff sees our players fitting into the new D.
A lot of it at this juncture is based on conjecture and trying to evaluate just how our current players will fit into the new D. I would hope that they try our current roster as it pertains to the front seven to see who does and doesn't fit before they simply trade experience for even larger question marks in rookies.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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My point is that they aren't just satisfied with a few good players ..... they went in search of more good players to add to their DL, because they know that they need a solid rotation.
I like our DL better than the Ravens too. Our advantage is in the combined quality of our 3 starters, and our young depth. The Ravens advantage is in experienced depth, and having Ngata on their side. He is disruptive no matter where he lines up. He is the best DL on either team.
Overall I like the Browns DL more because of the youthful depth and potential. Remove Rubin from the equation, though, and I think that the equation becomes considerably more equal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I understand your point.
My point is that I really don't understand why the Browns built the best 3-4 defensive line in football (it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to prove me wrong here), when they still have gaping holes at other positions.
Relative to the rest of the league, Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn was good enough to field a top 3-4 defense. There are good 3-4 defenses out there that have a worse rotation than the four guys listed above. Hughes and Winn could start on quite a few teams IMO. As I mentioned numerous times, I believe the addition of Bryant pushed them from a well above average unit to the best in the league.
Meanwhile, I don't think there are any good 3-4 defenses that have as bad of a secondary as the Browns currently have now. Why the Browns spent money bolstering their strengths rather than addressing their weaknesses (you've said it yourself — "you cannot have a weakness at any of the positions"), is beyond me. I suppose my personal suspicion is that the Browns FO is more concerned with winning next year instead of this year, but I really don't know being an armchair GM and all. I could go on and on about why I think not signing a CB/FS was a bad idea, and bring up multiple valid points to support my argument, but I'm sure nobody wants to hear that anymore. What's done is done.
And I agree with you about trading Rubin being a bad idea, but I have slightly different reasoning. It's not that the Browns need him to field a top defense this year, it's that trading away talent with salaries like him never works out for the team giving away the player. The Browns would never receive adequate compensation for Rubin, so trading him wouldn't be smart IMO. He's worth more than the 3rd round pick that the Browns would receive in return.
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Quote:
I understand your point.
My point is that I really don't understand why the Browns built the best 3-4 defensive line in football (it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to prove me wrong here), when they still have gaping holes at other positions.
Relative to the rest of the league, Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn was good enough to field a top 3-4 defense. There are good 3-4 defenses out there that have a worse rotation than the four guys listed above. As I mentioned numerous times, I believe the addition of Bryant pushed them from a well above average unit to the best in the league.
Meanwhile, I don't think there are any good 3-4 defenses that have as bad of a secondary as the Browns currently have now. Why the Browns spent money bolstering their strengths rather than addressing their weaknesses (you've said it yourself — "you cannot have a weakness at any of the positions"), is beyond me. I suppose my personal suspicion is that the Browns FO is more concerned with winning next year instead of this year, but I really don't know being an armchair GM and all. I could go on and on about why I think not signing a CB/FS was a bad idea, and bring up multiple valid points to support my argument, but I'm sure nobody wants to hear that anymore. What's done is done.
And I agree with you about trading Rubin being a bad idea, but I have slightly different reasoning. It's not that the Browns need him to field a top defense this year, it's that trading away talent with salaries like him never works out for the team giving away the player. The Browns would never receive adequate compensation for Rubin, so trading him wouldn't be smart IMO. He's worth more than the 3rd round pick that the Browns would receive in return.
How do you foresee Winn, Hughes, and Taylor being a part of a "good" 3-4 DL? None played in an NFL 3-4. Do you think maybe hedging increases their odds? With your assessment this team having numerous gaping holes, is it better to fix one or two areas very well or better semi-fixing several areas? What is the probability of success having an "A+" OL and DL? Note too, these positions are hardest to fortified. If you look at where each DL player was drafted, they have real potential creating the best line in NFL without a major investment.
Personally I would be very unhappy if they do trade any of the DL. They have real potential becoming a super DL. They can sustain pressure throughout a whole game with a rotation of players. I am also a firm believer having a super OL and/or DL allows you to be competitive with par play makers. In going forward, they improve play making positions using the draft. Good examples building teams in this matter are Houston and Atlanta.
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Quote:
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I understand your point.
My point is that I really don't understand why the Browns built the best 3-4 defensive line in football (it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to prove me wrong here), when they still have gaping holes at other positions.
Relative to the rest of the league, Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn was good enough to field a top 3-4 defense. There are good 3-4 defenses out there that have a worse rotation than the four guys listed above. As I mentioned numerous times, I believe the addition of Bryant pushed them from a well above average unit to the best in the league.
Meanwhile, I don't think there are any good 3-4 defenses that have as bad of a secondary as the Browns currently have now. Why the Browns spent money bolstering their strengths rather than addressing their weaknesses (you've said it yourself — "you cannot have a weakness at any of the positions"), is beyond me. I suppose my personal suspicion is that the Browns FO is more concerned with winning next year instead of this year, but I really don't know being an armchair GM and all. I could go on and on about why I think not signing a CB/FS was a bad idea, and bring up multiple valid points to support my argument, but I'm sure nobody wants to hear that anymore. What's done is done.
And I agree with you about trading Rubin being a bad idea, but I have slightly different reasoning. It's not that the Browns need him to field a top defense this year, it's that trading away talent with salaries like him never works out for the team giving away the player. The Browns would never receive adequate compensation for Rubin, so trading him wouldn't be smart IMO. He's worth more than the 3rd round pick that the Browns would receive in return.
How do you foresee Winn, Hughes, and Taylor being a part of a "good" 3-4 DL? None played in an NFL 3-4. Do you think maybe hedging increases their odds? With your assessment this team having numerous gaping holes, is it better to fix one or two areas very well or better semi-fixing several areas? What is the probability of success having an "A+" OL and DL? Note too, these positions are hardest to fortified. If you look at where each DL player was drafted, they have real potential creating the best line in NFL without a major investment.
I think people over-exaggerate the transition from 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE or NT. There aren't a lot of failed transitions every year, or at least I haven't heard of many. We've also had teams like the Texans and Cardinals make fairly quick transitions from 4-3 to 3-4 because IMO, the transition isn't that difficult. I actually think that for defensive linemen, switching from 3-4 DE/NT to 4-3 DT is harder. This is mostly opinion, though. I don't really have the time to dig up the outcome of every defensive lineman who's had to switch positions due to a scheme change.
As for how holes should be filled, I personally believe in filling need-based holes in FA in order to position your team for drafting BPA (teams that draft BPA do better in the draft than those who don't — fact), something the Browns have precisely done the opposite of thus far. I also think teams create their gameplans around attacking your biggest weaknesses, so if forced to choose from your two options, I would choose semi-fixing numerous holes rather than bolstering a few positions.
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Quote:
I understand your point.
My point is that I really don't understand why the Browns built the best 3-4 defensive line in football (it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to prove me wrong here), when they still have gaping holes at other positions.
Relative to the rest of the league, Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn was good enough to field a top 3-4 defense. There are good 3-4 defenses out there that have a worse rotation than the four guys listed above. Hughes and Winn could start on quite a few teams IMO. As I mentioned numerous times, I believe the addition of Bryant pushed them from a well above average unit to the best in the league.
Meanwhile, I don't think there are any good 3-4 defenses that have as bad of a secondary as the Browns currently have now. Why the Browns spent money bolstering their strengths rather than addressing their weaknesses (you've said it yourself — "you cannot have a weakness at any of the positions"), is beyond me. I suppose my personal suspicion is that the Browns FO is more concerned with winning next year instead of this year, but I really don't know being an armchair GM and all. I could go on and on about why I think not signing a CB/FS was a bad idea, and bring up multiple valid points to support my argument, but I'm sure nobody wants to hear that anymore. What's done is done.
And I agree with you about trading Rubin being a bad idea, but I have slightly different reasoning. It's not that the Browns need him to field a top defense this year, it's that trading away talent with salaries like him never works out for the team giving away the player. The Browns would never receive adequate compensation for Rubin, so trading him wouldn't be smart IMO. He's worth more than the 3rd round pick that the Browns would receive in return.
Horton does not run a "standard" 3-4, where the DL are space eaters. His DL serves as a wave of attack. They don't just hold up the OL as best they can.
His DL is part of the pass rush. His blitzers augment that rush, but his DL, and DE in particular, are expected to get after the QB. I expect that we'll see the same thing here.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't "WISH" us to trade anyone. But if we did utilize #6 on Ansah or Jordan....100% we are committing to that player as a Starter for the OLB position opposite of Kruger.
We then have two choices regarding Sheard.
1. Trade him but not for Anything...Trade him for an offer we will find hard to refuse.
2. Transition Sheard to an ILB in this new Attack 3-4 Defense...making our prospective starting 4...Ansah/Jordan, DQ, Sheard n Kruger.
We still have him signed until 2014 if I recollect correctly. If he does not make the transition well we can still trade him during the season or next off season???
But in the spirit of the Thread...Who you gonna trade its the one that sort of makes some sense.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Quote:
Quote:
I understand your point.
My point is that I really don't understand why the Browns built the best 3-4 defensive line in football (it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to prove me wrong here), when they still have gaping holes at other positions.
Relative to the rest of the league, Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn was good enough to field a top 3-4 defense. There are good 3-4 defenses out there that have a worse rotation than the four guys listed above. Hughes and Winn could start on quite a few teams IMO. As I mentioned numerous times, I believe the addition of Bryant pushed them from a well above average unit to the best in the league.
Meanwhile, I don't think there are any good 3-4 defenses that have as bad of a secondary as the Browns currently have now. Why the Browns spent money bolstering their strengths rather than addressing their weaknesses (you've said it yourself — "you cannot have a weakness at any of the positions"), is beyond me. I suppose my personal suspicion is that the Browns FO is more concerned with winning next year instead of this year, but I really don't know being an armchair GM and all. I could go on and on about why I think not signing a CB/FS was a bad idea, and bring up multiple valid points to support my argument, but I'm sure nobody wants to hear that anymore. What's done is done.
And I agree with you about trading Rubin being a bad idea, but I have slightly different reasoning. It's not that the Browns need him to field a top defense this year, it's that trading away talent with salaries like him never works out for the team giving away the player. The Browns would never receive adequate compensation for Rubin, so trading him wouldn't be smart IMO. He's worth more than the 3rd round pick that the Browns would receive in return.
Horton does not run a "standard" 3-4, where the DL are space eaters. His DL serves as a wave of attack. They don't just hold up the OL as best they can.
His DL is part of the pass rush. His blitzers augment that rush, but his DL, and DE in particular, are expected to get after the QB. I expect that we'll see the same thing here.
Yeah, he uses everyone to rush the QB. Even his ILBs (Darryl Washington), safeties, and nickelbacks are involved.
This system fits the Browns' DL well other than maybe Rubin. We'll see, though. I still wouldn't trade him.
With or without Horton, I still think this is the best 3-4 DL in the league on paper and I still think Winn/Hughes could have easily started in it (or in any 3-4 scheme) had Bryant been not been brought in.
I suppose I'll have to agree to disagree with all of those who think differently.
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I Think this year is the year Taylor becomes a big time player. I can easily see him becoming a casey hampton type NT. He is pretty quick, and he is very big. I think the injury last year set him back, IMO we are in for a treat this year.
I also would love to see what Rubin will do, when told he can penetrate instead of just hold space. His motor is high, and I think he will shine.
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If this front office is smart they won't trade anyone at all...
Rubin, Taylor, Sheard are all core members of our team and need to be kept with the team. I don't really think anybody we have has much trade value honestly. There is nobody I want to trade on defense, and the only person on offense might possibly be Montario Hardesty, but even then he's only worth a 5th or 6th rounder AT BEST.
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Quote:
This system fits the Browns' DL well other than maybe Rubin.
Other than Rubin?
This system is tailor made for Rubin. He is an aggressive, penetrating DT/DE. He is as sure a tackler as we have. He is quick and nimble for a 300# DL. He should be a star in this system. It is well suited for his talents and abilities.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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This system fits the Browns' DL well other than maybe Rubin.
Other than Rubin?
This system is tailor made for Rubin. He is an aggressive, penetrating DT/DE. He is as sure a tackler as we have. He is quick and nimble for a 300# DL. He should be a star in this system. It is well suited for his talents and abilities.
I don't like how he's going to play what I think is out of position for him. Regardless of Horton's own spin on the 3-4, I prefer both him and Taylor at NT. Taylor not being as good of a pass rusher as Rubin is probably the reason he's being slated to start at NT as opposed to Rubin, especially in Horton's system.
This is me being a pessimist, though. Rubin will probably fine. I just think his move to DE is meant to benefit Phil Taylor more than benefit Rubin himself.
Also, Horton's known for mixing up his fronts constantly, so these titles could potentially mean very little. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rubin at NT quite a bit, regardless of what he's listed as on the depth chart.
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I'd have to say I disagree. Taylor is much more disruptive than Rubin. Rubin has excellent gap integrity and hustle, but Taylor pushes the pocket much better. This alignment is a headscratcher to me.
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Eh, I think Taylor is athletically superior, but Rubin is better at attacking the QB because of his excellent motor IMO.
And both are NTs IMO, in any 3-4 alignment.
But I'm no expert, either.
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And both are NTs IMO, in any 3-4 alignment.
This part I agree with... Was definitely one of the major frustrations about going to a 3-4 base.
I just think Taylor has a better chance to succeed at DE.
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I don't "WISH" us to trade anyone. But if we did utilize #6 on Ansah or Jordan....100% we are committing to that player as a Starter for the OLB position opposite of Kruger.
We then have two choices regarding Sheard.
1. Trade him but not for Anything...Trade him for an offer we will find hard to refuse.
2. Transition Sheard to an ILB in this new Attack 3-4 Defense...making our prospective starting 4...Ansah/Jordan, DQ, Sheard n Kruger.
We still have him signed until 2014 if I recollect correctly. If he does not make the transition well we can still trade him during the season or next off season???
But in the spirit of the Thread...Who you gonna trade its the one that sort of makes some sense.
JMHO
I had not thought of Sheard at ILB until you mentioned it awhile back.
He can rush the passer...he's a sure tackler...he knows how to deal with OL who get on him...so that's all good.
I guess the question will be his ability to cover.
Is there a player in the league you'd project him to become at ILB?
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Is there a player in the league you'd project him to become at ILB?
Ted Bruschi 
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Go Browns!
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And both are NTs IMO, in any 3-4 alignment.
This part I agree with... Was definitely one of the major frustrations about going to a 3-4 base.
I just think Taylor has a better chance to succeed at DE.
I agree about PT - though some will say he sucks, I watch his feet and leverage and I think he will do very well at DE.
His size and quickness will make it so that the O wil have to chip him at the very least and that will free up the OLB that much more.
I expect a lot of OLB bltizes with PT taking the outside force and the OLB coming up underneath, slant Rubin to that same side and he will take up the Center and Guard leaving the OLB a free shot at the QB...JMHO.
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j/c What I find to be rather confusing is it seems most talk about how much MORE complicated this D is than the standard 3-4, (which I agree with), yet at the same time talk about how well staffed we are for it.  I would think the transition for at least our DL would be much easier in a standard 3-4 than a d with so many different looks and attacking from so many different places. To me, it's far more like an offense learning an entire new playbook that needs differing skill sets for each look. To me, this D will be very complicated and will not be installed to a great degree of success for at least a couple of seasons. It will take time and some more personnel changes as time goes along before we see the top 10 D everyone is looking forward to seeing. Rome wasn't built in a day and building this D to be a fluid, productive unit won't happen as quickly or smoothly as so many seem to indicate it will. It's a very complicated system in regards to D's.
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I had not thought of Sheard at ILB until you mentioned it awhile back.
I haven't read all the posts, but I don't see Sheard at ILBer at all. First of all, it's a completely different skill set. More importantly, in Horton's defense, the ILBers will be more responsible for pass coverage than the OLBers and I just don't see that as Sheards' strength.
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To me, this D will be very complicated and will not be installed to a great degree of success for at least a couple of seasons. It will take time and some more personnel changes as time goes along before we see the top 10 D everyone is looking forward to seeing.
I agree w/you that it is going to take some time? Please remember I said that, because during the first part of the season there will be posters who said I promised a great D right off the bat.
You are right, it is more complicated than running a standard 3-4, or even a 4-3 for that matter. It's going to take time for these guys to learn it. Will there be growing pains? My educated guess is there certainly will be.
I don't think the Brown's brain trust [or me, for that matter] thinks the Browns have enough talent to be real contenders this year. It's going to be a year of growth and development. I do think the defense will improve during the second half of the season, Pit. I don't think it will take 2-3 seasons.
I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am excited about the move. I think our D was overrated under both Ryan and Jauron. And I respect both men as defensive coordinators. They both got a lot out of very little. But, we never really could pressure the QB. And we never really could stop anyone when we had to. Teams played conservatively against us because they knew our O wouldn't score a lot. But, when they had to score--they did. Look at the Giant game last year. We're up 14-0 quick. Well, NY turned it up and I think they scored 44 on us. Is that right? Denver lit us up. Washington lit us up w/a rookie backup qb. The Bengals scored a lot because we scored in that game. And again, I am not dissing Jauron. He is a pretty good coach.
I really think Horton is a bright guy. He is on the cutting edge. I expect us to get burned early by BIG PLAYS. It will get ugly around here. But, I have hope that he will get us to where we need to be.
It's all for naught though------if we don't find a QB.
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yeah Vers, no way Sheard has the hips to move to the various drop back points required for an ILB in this defense.
I think he could be serviceable on the egde with a limited area of responsibility but not on the inside.... I have similar concerns about DQ, but certainly not to the extent of Sheard.
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I do think the defense will improve during the second half of the season, Pit. I don't think it will take 2-3 seasons.
This.
Arizona went from a mediocre defense to a very good one at about the halfway point of Horton's first year. Or at least that's what Arizona fans (and stats) say.
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Quote:
To me, this D will be very complicated and will not be installed to a great degree of success for at least a couple of seasons.
Why?
Other teams make the transition in a year or so ..... and we have solid pieces with which to help make the transition from 4-3 to "multi-front 3-4".
We may not have perfect pieces at every position, but if Horton can't improve it in a year or 2, then he doesn't deserve his job.
I think that we'll improve this coming year, and be much, much better next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
To me, this D will be very complicated and will not be installed to a great degree of success for at least a couple of seasons. It will take time and some more personnel changes as time goes along before we see the top 10 D everyone is looking forward to seeing.
I agree w/you that it is going to take some time? Please remember I said that, because during the first part of the season there will be posters who said I promised a great D right off the bat.
You are right, it is more complicated than running a standard 3-4, or even a 4-3 for that matter. It's going to take time for these guys to learn it. Will there be growing pains? My educated guess is there certainly will be.
I don't think the Brown's brain trust [or me, for that matter] thinks the Browns have enough talent to be real contenders this year. It's going to be a year of growth and development. I do think the defense will improve during the second half of the season, Pit. I don't think it will take 2-3 seasons.
I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am excited about the move. I think our D was overrated under both Ryan and Jauron. And I respect both men as defensive coordinators. They both got a lot out of very little. But, we never really could pressure the QB. And we never really could stop anyone when we had to. Teams played conservatively against us because they knew our O wouldn't score a lot. But, when they had to score--they did. Look at the Giant game last year. We're up 14-0 quick. Well, NY turned it up and I think they scored 44 on us. Is that right? Denver lit us up. Washington lit us up w/a rookie backup qb. The Bengals scored a lot because we scored in that game. And again, I am not dissing Jauron. He is a pretty good coach.
I really think Horton is a bright guy. He is on the cutting edge. I expect us to get burned early by BIG PLAYS. It will get ugly around here. But, I have hope that he will get us to where we need to be.
It's all for naught though------if we don't find a QB.
I hear you Vers and I'll add to it. I feel like the D will struggle much like the offense until we can get that bona fide pass rusher (arguably the blind side version). We've been lacking that for what seems like forever now.
Wimbley had his good year just like Anderson. And just like Anderson, other teams figured him out. People like Fujita, Stewart, Jayme Mitchell, Frostee Rucker, etc. have been killing us at that spot.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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J/C,,,If Jordan is on the board at #6, I think trading Sheard is a real possibility.
We take Jordan and get the best LB in the draft, then use Sheard to get that coveted extra pick.
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I don't know if the pass rusher really needs to be coming from the blind side. I just think that we desperately needed an edge rusher. It was our most glaring need going into the offseason and I think we filled it w/Kruger. I think he will make Sheard a better rusher. I think the addition of Bryant will really help. I think Taylor will be more dynamic in Horton's style of defense.
On the other hand, I think we may give up some long runs and long pass plays. It's the nature of the beast when you attack.
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Quote:
J/C,,,If Jordan is on the board at #6, I think trading Sheard is a real possibility.
We take Jordan and get the best LB in the draft, then use Sheard to get that coveted extra pick.
IDK ... I get what your saying and surely Jordan is an upgrade over Sheard... but how much of one, maybe only a couple rungs up the ladder?
Also we miss the chance at 6 to greatly upgarde some other spot... CB, TE etc.
so we give up on Sheard .. get some "marginal" ( open for debate how much), upgrades at two spots when we could get really better at one... its a crap shot for sure.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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We might see a trade that gets an additional pick in next years draft ... There are some nice QB prospects coming out !
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Quote:
We might see a trade that gets an additional pick in next years draft ... There are some nice QB prospects coming out !
I would like this. I wouldnt mind giving up picks this year for picks next year. We have a tough schedule and a mediocre team. We will be drafting top 10 again next year I bet, so lets make sure we have the ammo to get our guy.
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Quote:
I don't know if the pass rusher really needs to be coming from the blind side. I just think that we desperately needed an edge rusher. It was our most glaring need going into the offseason and I think we filled it w/Kruger. I think he will make Sheard a better rusher. I think the addition of Bryant will really help. I think Taylor will be more dynamic in Horton's style of defense.
On the other hand, I think we may give up some long runs and long pass plays. It's the nature of the beast when you attack.
I agree with you on Bryant. I've been watching film on the guy from last season and, for the life of me, I have no idea why he was underutilized in favor of Seymour/Kelly. He was leaps and bounds the best one of the bunch.
I do worry about the defense giving up long pass plays and run plays, but I'm hoping the gamble to make plays and apply constant pressure pays off. I think part of it comes from constantly watching opposing offenses absolutely bleed us to death when they want to. That, and the fact aside from the bleeding, we also gave up a lot of big plays last year as well. I think about the Bengals touchdown to Gresham and the Redskins touchdown to the TE (can't remember who it was). Both of those plays really affirmed how much I couldn't stand watching Usama Young in our secondary.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I'll say that I HOPE Sheard can make the transition to 3-4 OLB.. but I'm not sure if I see it. Charlie Casserly is on record as saying he thinks we could actually get a late 1st rounder in exchange for Sheard.
The problem here is this: If you throw him out there as a 3-4 OLB and turn him into Kenard Lang, you've destroyed his trade value IMO. His trade value is pretty high right now. I hope they got a GOOD look at him in mini-camp at OLB. They need to make a decision on him and go with it. Whether it's trading him & replacing him or doing everything they can do to make him succeed. Personally, I want to see him get a shot but in a draft that is stocked with good 3-4 OLB prospects.. I'd hate to see them turn him into Kenard Lang...
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Sheard is being transitioned to LB from DE...this is a speculative thread.
Just stated if we take an OLB at overall #6...We will Start HIM 99% - We made our biggest move in FA for Kruger at OLB. We will start him 99%.
So the likelihood of Sheard being an ILB is very slim but we will only have two options:
Trade Sheard or train him for the starting ILB role. I see us bringing in another CB/DB on passing downs but keeping Sheard as LB n move him around...maybe put his hand down depending on the look we wish to give. Just another "versatile LB" for the multiple looks.
So I agree its not likely in our plans. I think we would have a trade worked out if we take a OLB at #6...possibly later in the year for a trade on 2014 pick? But I can see a decent sized SILB in this D moving around n attacking. Zone blitz can come from anywhere. Who knows how well he drops back after getting trained up. I'm sure it won't come easy n over night But an option never the less.
JMHO
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Kenard Lang was older and starting to break down when we let him go. His last year in Cleveland saw him start 5 games, and collect 2 sacks. He went to a 4-3 team in Denver, had a decent year with 6 sacks, then disappeared into the ether that consumes older players. Sheard is still a young man. His value will be fine. There are more 4-3 teams in the NFL than there are 3-4 teams. If he cannot play in the 3-4, there will be plenty of teams who would love to grab him. Heck, the Ravens would probably try to get him. http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x409756421/Browns-needs-point-to-possible-drafteesAt the Super Bowl, where Kruger made two sacks, a Ravens defensive coach was asked about the Browns. He raved about Jabaal Sheard, who is converting from end to outside backer. I cannot find the full quote from the coach, but IIRC, it was something like they liked Sheard a lot, and they would have had him at OLB if they had been able to get him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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tab, sorry but i think you have ansah ranked way to high. no way i want him in a browns uniform. didn't have a good season last fall. had a bad senior bowl practice week. so his claim to fame is a half of football at the senior bowl. i don't get it.
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Not to mention the guy is 35 years old.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Ansah...no you got him ranked way too low.  Rich - it don't matter have your opinion on him I cannot add any more than what I have n am explaining what moves me to that opinion. In the end neither one of us have a say - What I do know...we brought him as well as Jordan to Berea. Two guys I would covet. There is a chance he will be a Brown...you can OH NO the choice...I will Rejoice. I'm sure I will end up liking whoever we pick. This draft if you are not looking for a Left Tackle is all full of RISKS. Sure thing...Warmack the rest are risks.
JMHO nothing more. You are not going to convince me Ansah is not worthy - only proof he is 28 or older would change my opinion of him.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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Quote:
We may not have perfect pieces at every position, but if Horton can't improve it in a year or 2, then he doesn't deserve his job.
I think that we'll improve this coming year, and be much, much better next year.
To both you and Verse to a degree as well. I'm not trying to indicate that the D won't improve over time. Do I believe we will improve as the season progresses? Yes I do. Do I believe we'll be even better next season? Yes I do. If you'll look back at my reference you'll see I said a "top 10 defense" in 2 or three years. We can make a lot of improvement and still not rank in the top 10.
For one thing, by next season, we will have both this years draft picks as well as next years draft picks that will be accumulated. We will have yet another FA signing period. By that time, at least some of the parts that don't fit the puzzle as well as needs as they stand now will be addressed.
I would expect us to be ranked about in the middle of the league on D if you are looking at the last half of next season. Nothing to scoff at and a big improvement from where we were last season. So to me YTown and Verse, that would show a big improvement.
I think the only real difference we have here is where we stand now. You can only change so many parts of the puzzle at one time in any given off-season. I do believe we discarded players that simply had no chance of fitting into the new D. We added players that would.
But going back to the fact you can only do so much in one off-season, I'm sure we have some players that Horton feels there is a lot of gray area about. But at this juncture, he can only try and see how those with a skill set conducive to his scheme will transition. The fact of the matter is, we've all seen players drafted to fit the 3-4 who simply never pan out. Actually some very high 3-4 OLB's and pass rush specialists are the very reason they were drafted.
To me, whether or not many of our players will be able to adapt to the new D scheme is still very much in the air. So how much this roster will actually have to be adjusted is a big question mark to this point.
I'm not saying that there won't be improvement because I believe there will be. I just feel some may be overly optimistic about the speed with which we will or can be "elite".
We will know a lot more by the end of this season. Who fits and who doesn't at that juncture. But I do believe we must remember there are two sides of the ball. We still have a very weak secondary at this juncture.
I'm not saying we need an elite secondary, but we do need some drastic improvements at CB and FS. Not to mention at least some above average depth. So while I don't really completely disagree with the two of you, I do feel the length of time and the amount of roster turnover to become an elite D may be more extensive than some may perceive it to be.
Only time will tell how this will go. But I do believe to at least some extent we agree.
I believe by next off-season, a thread such as this will be far more relivent because not only us but our coaching staff will have a firm grasp of who fits and who doesn't. As of now, I think they have weeded out those they are "sure won't fit the scheme" and will give a wait and see attitude on other players.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It was our most glaring need going into the offseason and I think we filled it w/Kruger. I think he will make Sheard a better rusher.
This is a huge point that I strongly believe. I'm not 100% sure Sheard will transition well into the 3-4, but I do feel his odds are very good. Sheard had I believe it was nine and a half sacks as a rookie. But with no other real threat to sack the QB, Sheard was the main target they had to stop. By adding Kruger, I believe that Sheards sack count and ability to pressure will greatly improve.
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On the other hand, I think we may give up some long runs and long pass plays. It's the nature of the beast when you attack.
I feel that is a very realistic expectation early on especially and how well many on our current roster adapt well into the new D scheme will go a very long way in how long such a trend continues IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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