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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
yebat' Putin
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Those who have kept up with the reporting must admit...at this time, it does not look good for Jimmy Haslam.
No, we don't have to admit that at all
I don't have all the facts.. Neither do you. So how in the hell can anyone say, with any degree of certainty that this doesn't look good for Haslam?
Daman, have you ever been to court? Ever served on a jury? To borrow a line from the great movie, ' A Civil Action' ..when John Travolta was sitting outside the courtroom with opposing council; That attorney asked John what he's seeking. John said he just wants the truth. The attorney said " if you're looking for the truth, you're in the wrong place!". Never has a truer statement, imo, been made. In court, somebody is lying. Your job as juror is to filter thru the crap and determine which side is.
Civil court, guilt is based on a preponderance of evidence. Haslam, guilty! Criminal court, beyond a reasonable doubt. With the evidence as of now and Jimmy's actions, for me GUILTY! Until something materializes to change my opinion, that's where I'm at. Does that mean he'll be found guilty? Not at all my friend. Just like a potential juror, it's my opinion. What I'm looking forward to is how he wiggles his way out.
The statement that an external audit is a colossal waste of money.... you're joking right? Why would you ever consider that in a CYA mode. I guess the person who said that doesn't have auto insurance, homeowners insurance because that's exactly what an external audit is.
Retaining an external audit COVERS YOUR BUTT! Having an external audit will change my opinion that Jimmy didn't know. Plus, he would have legal avenues to pursue against the auditing company. Have we heard anything of the sort pertaining to this? Too expensive....lol....pay me now to protect you or pay somebody else later too defend you. Either way, YOU WILL PAY!
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Was he found guilty.. Did I miss something?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those who have kept up with the reporting must admit...at this time, it does not look good for Jimmy Haslam.
No, we don't have to admit that at all
I don't have all the facts.. Neither do you. So how in the hell can anyone say, with any degree of certainty that this doesn't look good for Haslam?
Daman, have you ever been to court? Ever served on a jury? To borrow a line from the great movie, ' A Civil Action' ..when John Travolta was sitting outside the courtroom with opposing council; That attorney asked John what he's seeking. John said he just wants the truth. The attorney said " if you're looking for the truth, you're in the wrong place!". Never has a truer statement, imo, been made. In court, somebody is lying. Your job as juror is to filter thru the crap and determine which side is.
Civil court, guilt is based on a preponderance of evidence. Haslam, guilty! Criminal court, beyond a reasonable doubt. With the evidence as of now and Jimmy's actions, for me GUILTY! Until something materializes to change my opinion, that's where I'm at. Does that mean he'll be found guilty? Not at all my friend. Just like a potential juror, it's my opinion. What I'm looking forward to is how he wiggles his way out.
The statement that an external audit is a colossal waste of money.... you're joking right? Why would you ever consider that in a CYA mode. I guess the person who said that doesn't have auto insurance, homeowners insurance because that's exactly what an external audit is.
Retaining an external audit COVERS YOUR BUTT! Having an external audit will change my opinion that Jimmy didn't know. Plus, he would have legal avenues to pursue against the auditing company. Have we heard anything of the sort pertaining to this? Too expensive....lol....pay me now to protect you or pay somebody else later too defend you. Either way, YOU WILL PAY!
Blah Blah Blah
Bottom line, he did it, or he didn't. If they can't prove it, then he'll skate. if they can prove it, he'll pay.,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Was he found guilty.. Did I miss something?
Was he ever indicted? Was he ever looked at as anything more than a possible suspect to the FBI -- NOT the media -- the FBI?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Was he found guilty.. Did I miss something?
Was he ever indicted? Was he ever looked at as anything more than a possible suspect to the FBI -- NOT the media -- the FBI?
They literally ruined his life. I don't know if he was indicted or not. I don't think so, But life ruined,, you bet. Therein lies the problem with jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
And that's what many folks on here are doing.
As I said, he's probably well aware, but you still have to prove it.
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/26/13 03:05 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Was he found guilty.. Did I miss something?
Was he ever indicted? Was he ever looked at as anything more than a possible suspect to the FBI -- NOT the media -- the FBI?
They literally ruined his life. I don't know if he was indicted or not. I don't think so, But life ruined,, you bet. Therein lies the problem with jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
And that's what many folks on here are doing.
As I said, he's probably well aware, but you still have to prove it.
No, the FBI did nothing of the sort. They simply investigated based upon a theory. Their one and only unfortunate act was allowing it to be leaked that he was a suspect.
The MEDIA is who ruined his life.
And, for the record, hardly ruined.... the man settled separate lawsuits for libel against CNN, The New York Post, and Piedmont College, each for "an undisclosed sum of money". He also sued NBC for libel and won $500,000. He was also given a letter from the investigating US Attorney fully exonerating him.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The FBI didn't ruin his life, the media did.
The FBI did what any law agency does, and labels anyone involved in the scene as a possible suspect. It's protocol, not accusation. The problem was the media doesn't see it the same way, they just take it and run.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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As far as I'm concerned, the FBI did exactly what they should have done.....identified and investigated a potential suspect then ruled him out.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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So how in the hell can anyone say, with any degree of certainty that this doesn't look good for Haslam?
Unless I totally missed something, any time the FBI and IRS gain search warrants and raid your business, accuses you of being directly involved, that doesn't look "good", as you say, for anyone.
It doesn't mean he's guilty, but it certainly doesn't "look good" at any level.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
If you're looking for a simple yes or no, then the answer would be no.
Simple 'yes' or 'no' - does Richard Jewell's name belong in a thread about an FBI corporate fraud investigation?
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Simple 'yes' or 'no' - does Richard Jewell's name belong in a thread about an FBI corporate fraud investigation?
No. Completely not applicable to the situation.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If you're looking for a simple yes or no, then the answer would be no.
Fair enough.
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Simple 'yes' or 'no' - does Richard Jewell's name belong in a thread about an FBI corporate fraud investigation?
Sure. He was considered a suspect in a terrible act. He was investigated by the FBI. The media latched onto it and ripped him to shreds. He was never actually indicted on anything and was released. Regardless of whether he ended up ok financially, his reputation and life were ruined for a long time.
The acts are not, in any way, similar but the behavior of the FBI and the media is certainly a topic that can be discussed.
I don't think the incidences are all that similar and the potential ramifications of being implicated are totally different but if Daman wants to draw some similarities, then that's fine. I just think the differences are great enough that it doesn't really make for a fair comparison... none of that means anybody is stupid, can't read, doesn't comprehend, or has no clue...
The differences are that Jewell was totally unconnected from the incident other than being the person who found the bomb... Haslam is the CEO of the company being investigated, he is therefore, already linked.
Jewell was linked to a very highly publicized, very emotional event that captured the attention of America... Haslam is associated with a corporate event that nobody outside of Browns fans and trucking companies really give a crap about so it's hard to say his reputation will be "ruined" if he is ultimately found not guilty.
Per the previous comment, the media had a huge interest in the Jewell story... how much media attention outside of Tennessee and Cleveland is the Haslam story getting?
So I see some vague similarities but nothing I would hang my hat on.
yebat' Putin
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I think his initial point was that we shouldn't leap to conclusions, citing Richard Jewell as an example of a time the FBI got it wrong.
This is a very weak example.
First of all, they didn't get it wrong with Richard Jewell. They checked him out, and moved on. If they indicted him, that would be getting it wrong.
Second of all ... it was a bombing. This is a fraud case.
Thirdly ... the FBI wasn't announcing from the rooftops that Jewell was the target of their investigation. That was the Atlanta Constitution-Journal. But with Haslam, they are thumping their chests a bit. They've been very clear that they're going to the top with this one.
Really, the only similarity between the two cases is that they are/were both F.B.I. investigations.
The whole thing would have died a long time ago if Damanshot just said 'OK, maybe that's a bad example, but my point is...'
Instead he acted like he was being attacked while accusing people of lacking comprehension skills.
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PDR, I need a simple yes or no answer to the following question...
Did the FBI get it wrong in the Richard Jewell case?
No.
Was he found guilty.. Did I miss something?
Was he ever indicted? Was he ever looked at as anything more than a possible suspect to the FBI -- NOT the media -- the FBI?
They literally ruined his life. I don't know if he was indicted or not. I don't think so, But life ruined,, you bet. Therein lies the problem with jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
And that's what many folks on here are doing.
As I said, he's probably well aware, but you still have to prove it.
No, the FBI did nothing of the sort. They simply investigated based upon a theory. Their one and only unfortunate act was allowing it to be leaked that he was a suspect.
The MEDIA is who ruined his life.
And, for the record, hardly ruined.... the man settled separate lawsuits for libel against CNN, The New York Post, and Piedmont College, each for "an undisclosed sum of money". He also sued NBC for libel and won $500,000. He was also given a letter from the investigating US Attorney fully exonerating him.
Wait, you admit they made the mistake of letting it leak, but you say they did nothing?
Explain to me how letting it leak is doing nothing
If I hire a hit man to commit murder, and they do so, Am I not as guilty of murder as the hitman?
I believe the answer is yes. Yet, I didn't pull the trigger. But I caused the trigger to be pulled.
You honestly think that getting money replaces being respectable. WOW..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Per the previous comment, the media had a huge interest in the Jewell story... how much media attention outside of Tennessee and Cleveland is the Haslam story getting?
Had a conversation with my best friend. We both grew up outside of pittsburgh. He's a steelers fan,, DIE HARD..
Hated the browns..
He didn't even know about the incident. So it doesn't appear it's getting a whole lotta air play out of Tn or Ohio
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, dear sweet 8lb 6 oz Baby Christmas Jesus, ain't barely spoken a word, yet..... is that the crumb you're going to hold onto here??!?!!!???
Because information on a suspect's name was leaked, they are now responsible and THIS is your rationale for holding onto such a poor and weak example?
Dude.... seriously, that's beyond reaching. You are so far off track with this now that it is approaching the absurd. We get the point you were attempting to make, but your choice of example to put forward doesn't apply at all. Period.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Oh, dear sweet 8lb 6 oz Baby Christmas Jesus, ain't barely spoken a word, yet..... is that the crumb you're going to hold onto here??!?!!!???
Because information on a suspect's name was leaked, they are now responsible and THIS is your rationale for holding onto such a poor and weak example?
Dude.... seriously, that's beyond reaching. You are so far off track with this now that it is approaching the absurd. We get the point you were attempting to make, but your choice of example to put forward doesn't apply at all. Period.
Hey,, you were the one that brought it up, I just wanted to show you how absurd your thinking was..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those who have kept up with the reporting must admit...at this time, it does not look good for Jimmy Haslam.
No, we don't have to admit that at all
I don't have all the facts.. Neither do you. So how in the hell can anyone say, with any degree of certainty that this doesn't look good for Haslam?
Daman...you are right......you don't have to admit it !
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Oh, dear sweet 8lb 6 oz Baby Christmas Jesus, ain't barely spoken a word, yet..... is that the crumb you're going to hold onto here??!?!!!???
Because information on a suspect's name was leaked, they are now responsible and THIS is your rationale for holding onto such a poor and weak example?
Dude.... seriously, that's beyond reaching. You are so far off track with this now that it is approaching the absurd. We get the point you were attempting to make, but your choice of example to put forward doesn't apply at all. Period.
Hey,, you were the one that brought it up, I just wanted to show you how absurd your thinking was..
LMAO!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
In a situation of extreme violence or possible terrorist acts, the FBI is forced to move swiftly to help try to avoid further violence upon more victims.
In this situation and many in regards to white collar crime, they are slow and methodical. They take far more time and are much more thorough as with this long investigation.
I believe it was posted they are 241 out of 242 in such cases? When it comes to extreme violence, you simply don't have that kind of time.
They are two completely separate animals and rightfully so.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Wait, you admit they made the mistake of letting it leak, but you say they did nothing?
Explain to me how letting it leak is doing nothing
If I hire a hit man to commit murder, and they do so, Am I not as guilty of murder as the hitman?
I believe the answer is yes. Yet, I didn't pull the trigger. But I caused the trigger to be pulled.
You honestly think that getting money replaces being respectable. WOW.
Your examples and comparisons are getting weaker and weaker.
Your analogy here is telling someone to pull the trigger = the FBI letting it leak.
The biggest problem among many in this example is that the FBI didn't 'let' anything leak.
Releasing Jewell's name wasn't a tactical move by the FBI. Someone went rogue and talked to an ACJ reporter, who actually overstated what the FBI was believing internally.
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Wait, you admit they made the mistake of letting it leak, but you say they did nothing?
Explain to me how letting it leak is doing nothing
If I hire a hit man to commit murder, and they do so, Am I not as guilty of murder as the hitman?
I believe the answer is yes. Yet, I didn't pull the trigger. But I caused the trigger to be pulled.
You honestly think that getting money replaces being respectable. WOW.
Your examples and comparisons are getting weaker and weaker.
Your analogy here is telling someone to pull the trigger = the FBI letting it leak.
The biggest problem among many in this example is that the FBI didn't 'let' anything leak.
Releasing Jewell's name wasn't a tactical move by the FBI. Someone went rogue and talked to an ACJ reporter, who actually overstated what the FBI was believing internally.
The only thing around here that is getting weaker and weaker is your rejection of my analogies.
Once again, you are comparing actual acts rather then then the true message..
You say my examples are getting weaker and weaker and Purp just laughs.
The truth is, neither of you can give me an rational explanation as to why you feel my thoughts are off base.
So you laugh and you just say it ain't so. that's brilliant, but not convincing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The truth is, neither of you can give me an rational explanation as to why you feel my thoughts are off base.
So you laugh and you just say it ain't so. that's brilliant, but not convincing.
I've done far more than just 'say it ain't so'. I've done a pretty rational and thorough breakdown as to why your example of Richard Jewell has no place in this argument.
The only resemblance between the case of Jimmy Haslam and Richard Jewell is that they were both investigated by the FBI.
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OK If Jimmy was guilty hang him high. If Jimmy was not guilty then not only don't hang him but quit finding him guilty in the press and in the public's opinion. Almost everybody I talk to has already claimed that Jimmy is guilty already and this is a damn shame. People today are to damn stupid to wait till all the info is available before they make a decision and it's really 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I can't say whether Jimmy is guilty or not. He hasn't even been indicted yet.
But it is a fair assumption to say that it doesn't look good for him, legally.
The FBI is public about gunning for him in a fraud case. That's a bad sign.
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Blah Blah Blah
,
Classy
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As for me I don't trust ANY government agency so I will wait till the dust clears before standing up for him or throwing dirt on his grave.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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and Purp just laughs.
Yes, because not only have we shown you quite clearly how the things you are stating have no bearing whatsoever, your further attempts to back your position make absolutely no sense at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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As for me I don't trust ANY government agency so I will wait till the dust clears before standing up for him or throwing dirt on his grave.
I don't trust any government agency, either.
But I do trust that when the FBI shuts down a corporate HQ with a warrant and a public release of an affidavit with federal witnesses and estimated numbers ... you're probably screwed.
And again ... Jimmy could get off. Highly unlikely but a distinct possibility.
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I can't say whether Jimmy is guilty or not.
Then quit arguing the point. Geesh..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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and Purp just laughs.
Yes, because not only have we shown you quite clearly how the things you are stating have no bearing whatsoever, your further attempts to back your position make absolutely no sense at all.
Purp,, Come on already..
Is he Guilty? Do you know that? Can you prove it?
Once again, you are looking at the examples and taking them verbatim,, instead, look at what thy represent. That might help you understand.
If not, then we should drop this.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Purp,, Come on already..
Is he Guilty? Do you know that? Can you prove it?
Once again, you are looking at the examples and taking them verbatim,, instead, look at what they represent. That might help you understand.
If not, then we should drop this.
It's not like you to give up so easily! 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Purp,, Come on already..
Is he Guilty? Do you know that? Can you prove it?
Once again, you are looking at the examples and taking them verbatim,, instead, look at what they represent. That might help you understand.
If not, then we should drop this.
It's not like you to give up so easily!
thank you 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I can't say whether Jimmy is guilty or not.
Then quit arguing the point. Geesh..
When have I argued that he's guilty or innocent?
I've said that it does not look good for him.
And it doesn't.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
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I can't say whether Jimmy is guilty or not.
Then quit arguing the point. Geesh..
When have I argued that he's guilty or innocent?
I've said that it does not look good for him.
And it doesn't.
I'm with ya.. it does not look good for Jimmy.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
jc It's amazing how you can recognize soap opers fans by reading this B.S. 
GO BROWNS!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871 |
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KNOXVILLE -- A judge has denied the request of a Georgia attorney to keep Pilot Flying J officials from contacting the customers who may have fallen victim to an alleged rebate scam.
The motion for a temporary restraining order was filed last week, by the attorney for a Georgia trucking company that has filed a lawsuit against Pilot Flying J. The attorney claimed that C.E.O. Jimmy Haslam was contacting the companies, getting releases from them and settling claims before the companies even know the full extent of their claims.
Attorneys for Haslam and Pilot Flying J argued they were only trying to make things right and rebuild the damaged relationships.
In court Monday morning, the plaintiffs claimed that Pilot Flying J was attempting to influence witnesses in their desired lawsuit. They also claimed Pilot Flying J was trying to pay people off.
Pilot attorneys countered that they were doing the right thing, to "make things right" for the customers and pay them what they were owed, no more or no less.
The judge seemed to favor Pilot Flying J's actions in this case, saying "Why would I not be delighted that these cases be settled out of court?"
With that, the judge denied the injunction.
We're also learning more about what the government claims Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's Pilot Flying J company did to warrant a federal investigation.
The Associated Press says Haslam's team was secretly recorded on how they scammed hundreds of thousands of dollars from clients.
Investigators gave immunity to one former Pilot Flying J employee who laid out how the alleged scheme worked.
If a client questioned the mistake, the report says they were told to blame it on a computer glitch.
It's alleged Haslam was aware of the rebate situation.
WKYC-TV / WBIR
http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/297222/...cting-customers
IMO This is a good decision. I think the only reason to tell a company not to contact his clients is so he can't settle the case out of court thus costing the attorneys a boat load of cash from a lawsuit.
I predict:
1. This is going to take a year or better to sort itself out
2. Haslam will be exonerated
3. Or, if not exonerated, he will turn ownership of the Browns to his wife/family
4. I don't care about PFJ so what happens to them is of no concern of mine.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
Quote:
I think the only reason to tell a company not to contact his clients is so he can't settle the case out of court thus costing the attorneys a boat load of cash from a lawsuit.
Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner!
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... FBI/IRS raid on Jimmy Haslam's
company..(continued)
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