|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I have said all along that my first option was to pick Milliner. I think he is special.
My second option was to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return.
But again, I am not complaint too much. Mingo is a good player. I think he'll be dynamic in Horton's defense. It's not exactly what I wanted, but it's better than our usual picks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361 |
J/C
One thing about Milliner as well ..... is that he's a zone CB ...... and we don't play zone. I'm sure that came into play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117 |
Quote:
I have said all along that my first option was to pick Milliner. I think he is special.
My second option was to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return.
But again, I am not complaint too much. Mingo is a good player. I think he'll be dynamic in Horton's defense. It's not exactly what I wanted, but it's better than our usual picks.
You are correct in your thinking, but Mingo went too high. No surprise since Lombardi is calling the shots. 
Last edited by SuperBrown; 04/25/13 10:55 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
me too, that was pretty much what I was hoping for.
.....but they went Mingo. I'm not excited but believe he"ll be a plus player for us...and could be dominant one day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 68
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 68 |
Was this a good pick? I don't know for fact, but Mingo makes sense. The Browns have been missing pass rushers for a long time. This defense will now have pass rushers on both sides of the QB. The DL is already very solid with solid depth and now this defense has some OLBs that can get after the QB and create problems.
When you think about the new bookend pass rushers and combine them with the DL the front 7 are looking pretty good.
Don't think for a second that this front office is going into the season with the current DBs, they will add another CB and safety.
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
This is going to be a dynamic front 7.
.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18 |
Many expected the Browns to pursue Alabama cornerback Dee Milliner, and that position remains a glaring need, but you can't have enough pass rushers in this league. It's arguably the most important position on the field outside of the quarterback, and Cleveland has grown stronger adding Mingo to the fold.
Did anyone see Milliner's ball skills on display at he Combine. Horrific. I would rather have had Hayden all day long over Milliner. Pass rushers are much more important in today's NFL. Mingo will be a beast once Horton unleashes him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 149
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 149 |
Just clicking, Not sure how many of you watched the presser with Chud and Banner, but Banner stated exactly what he said in his interview for the Browns Report "We will probably go into this season with a few holes, fans won't like it, but we are not taking a player just to fill a hole, we are taking a player "we think" will be superior for years to come". He followed up a question stating that Horton was involved with the decision of "BARK" (sounds better than KeKe  ). I don't get all wrapped up in the draft like I used to, so I am pretty happy that the FO went with the BPA (a PASS RUSHER finally) they have slotted for the spot they selected at. Looking forward to tomorrow, Saturday, and next week when they go after all the UDFA's. We will get another solid CB in this draft or in free agency before TC, we don't need a first rounder at every position. Relax everyone, it cannot get any worse than what we have already seen, unless we go 0-16, but the bright side there is we pick first overall. 
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
One things for sure, there will be fresh bodies on D in the 4th quarter!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,844 Likes: 107
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,844 Likes: 107 |
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
i said that..and he admitted it openly..they valued the player more than the tradedown..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 123
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 123 |
I do not think it was a reach. Many mocks had Mingo in the top 10.
I would have takem Milliner because of the need for CB. Some scouts say he is a zone corner but if you don't have man skills Saban would not have started him for 3 years.
As far as Mingo goes. If he is an elite pass rusher then it does not matter if he is not a 3 down player. Look at Seattle with Irvin. Speed on defense is very important and one would played at an elite level like the SEC West for LSU is a solid pick. BPA kinda pick. The FO said they want to be an attack style defense and he fits that mold.Props for staying true to the philosophy they want to employ.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361 |
This front 7 really has the potential to be our strongest front 7 in decades.
I look at our team back to 1993 ...... and I cannot think of any Browns team that has had a stronger and deeper front 7. (potentially, anyway)
The 1993 team had some really nice pass rushers ..... MDP, Pleasant, and Burnett ...... and a veteran LB corps ..... but I love the speed on this defense. However, aside from that 1993 team, I really don't think that I see another defense since that I like as much as this one.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,844 Likes: 107
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,844 Likes: 107 |
Priceless. Hate myself for laughing. Priceless. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,191 Likes: 13
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,191 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
We also signed Groves, so we already were 3 deep at pass rushing OLB...as Vers said, I just didn't see the need and obviously disagree on the evaluation of Mingo. He's just not a day 1 ready 3 down player and at 6 overall I want more than a project/backup who will play only half the snaps at a position where we already had a big FA signing and a pretty good high 2nd rounder invested in...it just doesn't make much sense?
Yea I thought we took care of our LB needs in FA. I really thought they would take Milliner. Must have been scared off by his 5 surgeries.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
One things for sure, there will be fresh bodies on D in the 4th quarter!
....yeah, to rush the passer...but we will be trailing because we get run over as all our LBs suck vs the run. We put the cart before he horse. Outsmarting at its finest and exactly what I expected
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
I'm fine with the pick as well. And I agree it was BPA. But from another viewpoint we've lacked a strong Front 7 for years and seeing a FO focus on that is encouraging to me. No aging FA LB'ers, No 5th round pass rusher. I'm good with it. Banner even said in one of the interviews last week that after the draft some fans might be uncertain that some holes do not get filled. But he justified that by saying they are trying to build for the long term rather than the short. Of course, many before him said the same thing. But focusing on the Front 7 as they have it says a lot about how they're approaching it. If this pick and the FA's, (Kruger, Bryant, Groves), work out then at their age our Front 7 will be formidable in a year or two and for years to come. I still don't think any team is willing to draft and pay two top 10 CB's. So I never really thought Miliner was a real option. I know it's Haslem's money but Banner's holding the wallet and I just can't see him investing that much money on the two guys at that position. I have confidence they'll get someone in the 3rd. (Damn Rhodes just went to the Vikes. Wouldn't have gotten him in the 3rd anyway and obviously). I know Skrine is everyone's favorite whipping boy, but between he, the others on the roster and a draft pick I'm sure we're going to make there will be plenty of competition for the #2 CB. One of them just might surprise. If not they play it out with what they have. At any rate this team looks much better so far. Not because of the Mingo pick but because of all things considered. There's still the rest of a deep draft, Free Agency and June cuts to add to the team. Or did the world just come to an end and I missed it? You'd think so by some of the posts. 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 123
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 123 |
You missed 1 he had 15 career sacks playing Defensive End. He will paly OLB here in Cleveland. At defensive End he did not get as much of a chance to use his 4.5 speed. At OLB it will be on display much more often. Mingo also had over 30 TFL's in his college career. He has also shown the ability to run down RB's down the line of scrimmage. Brings much needed speed to the linebacker position the Browns have lacked for years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,191 Likes: 13
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,191 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again
Don't worry about not enough sacks in college. Miles didn't use him like that. Mingo dropped back in pass coverage alot. He didn't pin his ears back and rush the passer much. When he did, he was a monster.
He does need to bulk up a little and develop a pass rushing move.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Quote:
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
Everything I watched on him, which was not a lot, and everything I read about him, which was not a lot, I saw and heard said that he played with his hand on the ground and was typically used in containment and not primarily as a pass rusher standing up.
He played on both sides of the defense and like Ansah he didn't get the opportunities to rack up big stats.
I'm not about to join the double-digit-sack-totals-in-his-rookie-year-club, but I think he has more to show that was not being used in College.
Just my guess.
We went from having only one pass rusher (Sheard) with no one on the other side to loosten him up to having three pass rushers. One or the other of them ought to shine game to game depending on the opponent.
I like having a loaded Front 7. I'd think that other than an ILB we may be set there for the next few years.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
FWIW, this site has him at 14 sacks and 29 TFLs http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/365/1024481/tackleforloss/gamelog.htmlI agree on the conversion though, he DOES project very good to 34 OLB considering his size/speed, but there are a lot of questions marks involved. He's extremely raw, not many moves, he has to learn to drop into coverage AND learn how to finsih. Sound like a lot? Well, it is... That said, I think he was no1 in terms of pure pass rush ability and I guess that's what sold them on Mingo...they better hit here as they just took a BIG project at 6 overall, they better be right or they will never hear the end of it. I would have liked more of a 3 down player with that high a pick and a higher floor...the consensus opted to swing for the fences on a 3-0 pitch...they better hit it good or they'll look stupid
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
This coming from the guy who wanted Ansah?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
4 pass rushers if Groves keeps his *nose* clean
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
This coming from the guy who wanted Ansah?
Yes, and I've explained at lengths why, it's not my problem if you didn't read it. Can Mingo play 34 DE too? Be effective as a DE in a 43? Ansah is als a BEAST vs the run at 270 which Mingo isn't at 240...Mingo pretty much is restricted to 34 WOLB, Ansah is the hybrd defender...but I guess that doesn't matter and they're the same player fo you?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,609 Likes: 239
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,609 Likes: 239 |
Quote:
Quote:
This coming from the guy who wanted Ansah?
.Mingo pretty much is restricted to 34 WOLB,
maybe we will put him inside next to DQ?
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361 |
Yet Ansah lacks that explosion off the snap that Mingo has.
It's a trade off ...... a better run defender or a better pass rusher ..... which is the bigger value? Obviously the Browns see the pass rusher as the bigger need.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 65
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 65 |
Quote:
Yet Ansah lacks that explosion off the snap that Mingo has.
It's a trade off ...... a better run defender or a better pass rusher ..... which is the bigger value? Obviously the Browns see the pass rusher as the bigger need.
Or maybe they like Ansah more, but had a hard time picking him since he was already picked?
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,987 Likes: 361 |
LOL Or it could be that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 Likes: 26
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 Likes: 26 |
Like the pick, he is a bit undersized but he has better counter moves than Jordan and Ansah. Seems like a perfect fit for this system, we might have ourselves a pass rush. He was the best pass rusher in the best conference in college football. Our front 7 on defense should be formidable now for the first time in a long time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 65
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 65 |
Went back and watched 4 games worth of film here: http://www.youtube.com/v/dIms6ImVG6wI like him more than I did before (might be rose color glasses). Some impressions: Positives: 1.) Great first step when he is asked to pin his ears back 2.) Is often asked to seal the edge (especially against Manziel in game 1) this affects his numbers 3.) Knocks down a lot of balls at the line (I believe 6 in 4 games) - has long arms and times his jumps well. 4.) Has all of the OLB skills, comes out to cover TEs occasionally, or RBs out of the back field. 5.) Seals the edge against he run very efficiently, is asked to do this a lot, and RBs never really get outside. Negatives: 1.) Is completely unable to come off blocks and make tackles against the run game. Doesn't wrap up well. Overall, dude needs to go to a weight room and do about a million curls. He kind of pigeon arms when wrapping up. 2.) Doesn't have a dominant pass rush move to go to, utilizes the spin - but doesn't use his hands well in order to move around contact. There are a lot of positives here, he really just needs to add strength. Moving to OLB in a 3-4 will help minimize the impact of his biggest negative (the idea is that the DL takes up some blocks and lets your OLBs move freely).
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again
Don't worry about not enough sacks in college. Miles didn't use him like that. Mingo dropped back in pass coverage alot. He didn't pin his ears back and rush the passer much. When he did, he was a monster.
He does need to bulk up a little and develop a pass rushing move.
So he CAN drop back in coverage? He will be able to actually play the linebacker position off the ball? I like hearing that. Hope that's accurate.
Bulking up means slowing down. Harrison played at 240. Hell Lawrence Taylor played at 240. I'll be happy if he stays a little smaller and keeps his speed.
We are supposed to be changing to a mirror defense of the Steelers. We already have that big strong sider in Kruger. We need a Harrison type that can get pressure, but can also play in coverage, tackle a RB in space(blow UP a running back), maybe get a few interceptions.... you know play linebacker. If this kid can do all that and get double digit sacks then this was a good pick.
The Steelers took Jarvis Jones. So forever more KeKe and Jarvis will be linked. Which one turned out better?
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13 |
Quote:
I wonder if the Rams offered that package to the Browns???? I would have been all over that
I was thinking the very same thing and then use the 16th pick for Xavier Rhodes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,210
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,210 |
Just watched that video as well, and was coming here to post it.
Came away with basically the same things you did. One thing to remember, in two of those games (A&M and Bama) he lined up across from two of the best RT in college football in Fluker and Jake Matthews.
Last edited by 214dawg; 04/26/13 12:31 AM.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
J/C,
I don't hate this pick. Were there bigger needs? You bet. But, I said in another thread that the one thing that would drive me up the wall was a panic pick. To me, it doesn't look like they did that, they took the BPA on their board. We have plenty of time to debate the accuracy of their board, but at least they stuck to the work they did coming into the draft. If they thought Bark was the best guy available, then I'm glad took who they thought was the best guy. Need be damned. Just me tho.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Just watched the same video, wish I would have seen it before I made my final decision on Mingo.
He does have surprising strength that he gets because his burst is so fast and he just leverages the tackle out of his way. Hell, half the time, Fluker was struggling to keep himself from being pushed into AJ.
He sorely needs some real coaching. He has all the physical talent, it's clear. He needs to get thicker, not too much more, and he needs to play with more attention to detail.
But still, I don't want to put cart before the horse. He'll be a good situational pass rusher at the beginning. I won't say double digits, but he'll get his fair share. He has the potential, though, to be something incredibly disruptive and a front 7 animal. His motor never quits and he doesn't give up on plays, and I really like it.
Still, it's a little too boom or bust for me. Given the options, I'd say it's about a B pick. I would have been much more upset if we took Mingo with Jordan on the board.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
I just jumped through about 5 minutes of that video, dude missed A LOT of tackles.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Agreed.
He has surprising strength for his look, but he either needs a massive weight training regime or learn proper tackling technique.
To be fair, though, his goal in the first season is going to be tackling the QB, and that doesn't always require perfect form.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Round 1 Pick: Barkevious Mingo
|
|
