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link ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — Orange County health officials said a baby died from whooping cough last week. This is the first whooping cough death the county has seen in decades. Officials said it's been at least 20 years or more since someone died of the disease.Whooping cough, also called pertussis, and other diseases are making comebacks, because so many parents are deciding not to vaccinate their kids. "It's really unfortunate. We're saddened to hear that an infant died of something like this," said Dain Weister with the Florida Department of Health in Orange County. Officials said the family chose not to vaccinate their child. Some parents are choosing not to fully vaccinate their children because they worry there is a link between the vaccinations and autism. "A lot of people may not know (that) even the person who did that study admitted that study was flawed," Weister said. Health officials said that has caused vaccinations to drop and the number of cases of measles, pertussis and other preventable diseases to go up. Last year, Orange County had one case of measles and 42 cases of pertussis. This year there have already been four cases of measles and 12 cases of pertussis. WFTV spoke to parents at the Orange County Health Department who said they don't want to take any chances. "I feel like it's important so they can stay healthy and get all the shots and care that they need," parent Shaneatria Jones said. Health officials believe the baby that died caught whooping cough from an adult. Now they're urging parents to have their kids immunized to prevent another whooping cough death. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted this because I am 100% against the "anti-vaccine movement" that people like Jenny McCarthy promote. To those who believe vaccines cause autism and all those things, read the medicial literature and you will see that's not true. Vaccinate your kids and avoid tragedies like this.
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
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thank you Jenny McCarthy  if interested, search "Penn and Teller Vaccinations" in youtube. I'd put here but there is some language in it that is not for these boards.
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Babies are choices, right?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Babies are choices, right?
I also would say, as a parent, it is your choice to do what you feel is best for your child. If you feel the benefits of vaccinations don't outweigh the harm, that's your choice as a parent. Or is this going to be something else the government starts regulating? In a way they already do. Theres a lot of things you cant do if you don't have vaccinations.
KING
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I actually believe that unless your child receives all the necessary vaccinations, they should not be allowed to attend public schools and that religious exemptions should not be granted. The entire point of vaccinations is herd immunity which requires significant percentages of the population to be vaccinated. If you allow more and more children to go around without vaccinations, it makes it easier to spread around which is why we've seen the return of measles and the whooping cough.
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When I registered my daughter for kindergarten, I had to bring a list of her vaccines from her doctor before I could register her.
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Quote:
thank you Jenny McCarthy
if interested, search "Penn and Teller Vaccinations" in youtube. I'd put here but there is some language in it that is not for these boards.
Watched it. Pretty much sums up my attitude.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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To what extent?
If I wanted to quiet my crying baby, should I have the freedom to give him Jack Daniels? Rub a little heroin on his gums?
If I thought thar was best for my child, am I entitled to choose that path?
I mean that as an honest question, not as a facetious rebuttal
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Quote:
When I registered my daughter for kindergarten, I had to bring a list of her vaccines from her doctor before I could register her.
Same here, except the Amish kids as it is against their religion.
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Quote:
I actually believe that unless your child receives all the necessary vaccinations, they should not be allowed to attend public schools and that religious exemptions should not be granted. The entire point of vaccinations is herd immunity which requires significant percentages of the population to be vaccinated. If you allow more and more children to go around without vaccinations, it makes it easier to spread around which is why we've seen the return of measles and the whooping cough.
You are right, and that's what I meant when I said they already do. Hell , I am 39 years old. I have worked at the university for a year, for me to attend classes I had to show I had had my MMR vaccinations as a kid, or within the past 6 years. I couldn't find my shot records so I had to go to get a MMR booster.
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Quote:
To what extent?
If I wanted to quiet my crying baby, should I have the freedom to give him Jack Daniels? Rub a little heroin on his gums?
If I thought thar was best for my child, am I entitled to choose that path?
I mean that as an honest question, not as a facetious rebuttal
I take the question as facetious, at all. It is a good question.
I would say the things you mentioned are criminal activities, not choices to make.
Choosing vaccinations is a health choice. Do you think Amish parents who don't believe in vaccinations are being bad parents? They are making a choice based on what they feel is best for their child.
KING
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I posted this because I am 100% against the "anti-vaccine movement" that people like Jenny McCarthy promote. To those who believe vaccines cause autism and all those things, read the medicial literature and you will see that's not true. Vaccinate your kids and avoid tragedies like this.
I have 4 kids, girl boy girl boy (to give the order). The two boys are autistic, the 1st boy had all his vaccinations on time and didn't say anything till after his diagnosis and we put him on a special diet. The 2nd boy didn't get vaccinated till after his diagnosis, he started to echo what we would say (how much he understood I don't know), it's called echolalia. After he got his shots ALL THAT WAS GONE, and has not returned almost 10 years later.
The first boy is only moderately autistic and can speak (not conversationally) but is not social at all. The second boy is severely autistic (even before the shots) but who knows where things would've gone (sometimes echolalia becomes communication on some level) without the shots?
The other thing of it is, do we have to have ALL THOSE SHOTS ALL AT ONCE? There are some vaccines (MMR for one) that are three diseases being injected into you at once. They can't be spaced out a little more?
Take that for what you will, but that's not some study. Those are my sons.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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I would say the things you mentioned are criminal activities, not choices to make.
Fair enough.
But in your previous post you talked about the fear of government regulation. And I don't think that's far off.
It's not exactly law that you have to get your child vaccinated, but it's pretty close to necessary, really, in terms of life.
Not having a bank account isn't illegal, but if I never open one, I'm going to have a rough time navigating life.
I see your distinction, but the question is -and I don't have the answer, really - at what point is it your freedom and choice and at one point does the commmunity at large put their foot down and say 'no, that's detrimental to your child and you can't do that.
It's a fine line.
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Do you think Amish parents who don't believe in vaccinations are being bad parents?
Since you asked, yes, I do.
But that's really none of my business. It's their child, not mine.
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First, let me share with you my respect for all you do for your kids. One of my best friends is raising an autistic boy, and I've seen first-had (or actually a close "second-hand") how demanding it can be.
Second: there may be something to what you've asked. We all know that the human body needs time to develop antibodies to counter new strains of pathogens... so it's not foolish to wonder whether the mass introduction of these "dead germ cocktails" into a young, developing system is actually wise.
I confess that I have no background in the medicals sciences, but it seems to me that general questions such as these should be asked.... and addressed.
Despite how far we've come since the days of Jonas Salk, we still 'don't know what we don't know.'
Valid points brought up. Dawg. We should know more.... or at least SEEK to know more.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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jc
My brother in law's sister was made extremely mentally disabled from a "bad batch" of vaccine in Cuba as a child. I don't know all the details around it, but she was completely normal prior to the vaccine. She passed away several years ago in her 20's.
There are just so many people with stories like this, it makes me wonder if something being swept under the rug to avoid lawsuits.
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These kind of anecdotes annoy me to no end. You openly admit you do not know the details around the story you're telling but yet you go on to say Quote:
There are just so many people with stories like this
Correlation does not mean causation. There is plenty of medical literature that shows that the seriously adverse effects of vaccines occur in less than 1/1,000,000 people. The minuscule risks are greatly offset by the benefits.
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Quote:
I have 4 kids, girl boy girl boy (to give the order). The two boys are autistic, the 1st boy had all his vaccinations on time and didn't say anything till after his diagnosis and we put him on a special diet. The 2nd boy didn't get vaccinated till after his diagnosis, he started to echo what we would say (how much he understood I don't know), it's called echolalia. After he got his shots ALL THAT WAS GONE, and has not returned almost 10 years later.
The first boy is only moderately autistic and can speak (not conversationally) but is not social at all. The second boy is severely autistic (even before the shots) but who knows where things would've gone (sometimes echolalia becomes communication on some level) without the shots?
The other thing of it is, do we have to have ALL THOSE SHOTS ALL AT ONCE? There are some vaccines (MMR for one) that are three diseases being injected into you at once. They can't be spaced out a little more?
Take that for what you will, but that's not some study. Those are my sons.
I feel ya. I have twins, boy and girl. The boy has autism the girl does not. He was babbling until he got his vaccines, and it stopped. We got him in the early intervention program in our county and the school system. He still has his issues, but he talks. He can carry on a conversation and he is doing great in school.
I've read a lot of stuff from the medical world about there is no connection between vaccines and autism. Their research can say what it wants to say, I know what I saw. My kid was babbling, he had the MMR, and he stopped. And it was almost right away.
My problem is not with vaccinces, but too many vaccines at once. I got him all his vaccines. The kids are so small, can't we space it out and give their little bodies time to recover. I don't think that's unreasonable.
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The benifits exceed the risk that much is true .... unless you are the one in a million . It annoys ME to no end when someone who has never walked the proverbial mile spouts off callously about the good outweiging the bad . BTW until the recent past there was plenty of medical documentation to show that smoking and cancer weren't related . The biggest scams in the country involved medicine JMHO .
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It annoys ME to no end when someone who has never walked the proverbial mile spouts off callously about the good outweiging the bad
You know what they say about making assumptions. It makes you look like an ass who has no idea what other people's experiences have been.
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until the recent past there was plenty of medical documentation to show that smoking and cancer weren't related .
We have known for nearly 60 years when the US Surgeon General released the report linking the two. To put that in perspective, that's around the time the polio vaccine was invented. On a happy note, we are on the verge of eradicating polio, just a mere 60 years after discovering a vaccine for it.I like to think that we've come a long way since then.
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unless you are the one in a million
I would much rather take the 1/1,000,000 chance that a vaccine will cause a seriously adverse effect than the MUCH, MUCH realer possibility of serious health issues developing because I didn't get my children vaccinated. It's not a coincidence that essentially all the stories associated with rising measles and mumps rates involve children who were not vaccinated.
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I agree Joker.
Going with the odds is always the way to go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Correlation does not mean causation.
Unless we're talking man made global warming, right?
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Correlation does not mean causation. There is plenty of medical literature that shows that the seriously adverse effects of vaccines occur in less than 1/1,000,000 people. The minuscule risks are greatly offset by the benefits.
First of all, autism happens a hell of a lot more than 1/1,000,000 and what annoys me to no end is people like you who no matter the statistical range ARE COMPLETY OUTSIDE OF IT telling those of us who have these kids that the 'collateral damage' that they become is just something we have to deal with.
The stats are more like 1/50 now.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Quote:
Quote:
Correlation does not mean causation. There is plenty of medical literature that shows that the seriously adverse effects of vaccines occur in less than 1/1,000,000 people. The minuscule risks are greatly offset by the benefits.
First of all, autism happens a hell of a lot more than 1/1,000,000 and what annoys me to no end is people like you who no matter the statistical range ARE COMPLETY OUTSIDE OF IT telling those of us who have these kids that the 'collateral damage' that they become is just something we have to deal with.
The stats are more like 1/50 now.
His odds listed don't pertain to autism.
They pertain to serious adverse effects from vaccines.
I don't know if his numbers are correct, but those are two completely different things.
And I don't think at any point he told you or insinuated that your child was 'collateral damage' and that you had to just deal with it. If he did, that's despicable, if he didn't, that's pretty rude on your part.
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My problem is not with vaccinces, but too many vaccines at once. I got him all his vaccines. The kids are so small, can't we space it out and give their little bodies time to recover. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Same here, there's no need to be filling them up like that so quickly. It's not like they HAVE to have them all that quickly. People survived for thousands of years without them.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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First of all, autism happens a hell of a lot more than 1/1,000,000
I wasn't talking about autism since vaccines cause 0% of autism cases, despite what some people choose to believe despite the entire weight of scientific evidence.
The severe adverse effects which occur in less than 1/1,000,000 cases are (in the case of MMR vaccines which are at the heart of this issue): severe allergy reaction. deafness and death
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telling those of us who have these kids that the 'collateral damage' that they become is just something we have to deal with.
I never said that and never came near to saying that. My direct quote was "
I would much rather take the 1/1,000,000 chance that a vaccine will cause a seriously adverse effect than the MUCH, MUCH realer possibility of serious health issues developing because I didn't get my children vaccinated."
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Correlation does not mean causation. There is plenty of medical literature that shows that the seriously adverse effects of vaccines occur in less than 1/1,000,000 people. The minuscule risks are greatly offset by the benefits.
First of all, autism happens a hell of a lot more than 1/1,000,000 and what annoys me to no end is people like you who no matter the statistical range ARE COMPLETY OUTSIDE OF IT telling those of us who have these kids that the 'collateral damage' that they become is just something we have to deal with.
The stats are more like 1/50 now.
His odds listed don't pertain to autism.
They pertain to serious adverse effects from vaccines.
I don't know if his numbers are correct, but those are two completely different things.
And I don't think at any point he told you or insinuated that your child was 'collateral damage' and that you had to just deal with it. If he did, that's despicable, if he didn't, that's pretty rude on your part.
Give me a better way to put it if you can. I have a 10 1/2 year old boy who can't talk, still in diapers-do the math on the rest of that.
Every one of you will 'play the odds' but I call foul on that unless you've actually experienced this, really felt how it COMPLETELY turns your entire families life inside out, watched friends you thought you could count on conveniently fade out of your life and contemplate how you're going to provide for their future care when you're too old and feeble to do it yourself.
That's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Tell me all, which one of your kids do you sacrifice to the ODDS?
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Same here, there's no need to be filling them up like that so quickly. It's not like they HAVE to have them all that quickly. People survived for thousands of years without them.
Except for the some 20% of kids who died before age of 5 before vaccines and the like were invented. In 1900 in the US the infant mortality rate (born alive, died before age 1) was 16.5% -- and the majority of that was due to diphtheria, pertussis, and measles.
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/timeline/dmortality.htm
Basically, that means almost every family (or if not yours the one next door), had a kid born alive, who then died before age 1. It's amazing how quickly we forget how dangerous these diseases used to be.
I suggest you all read the CDC site - "What would happen if we stopped vaccinating children"
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm
And, of course, you aren't sacrificing any kids to the ODDS of vaccines, because vaccines DON'T cause autism:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/
http://www.parents.com/health/autism/vac...t-cause-autism/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/vaccinations-autism-research/63699/
Look, everybody worries about their kids, and want to make them safe. When something bad happens, it's natural to look for answers. It turns out that you get a lot of vaccines around age 1, and autism is never apparent at birth, it becomes visible about age 1. But vaccine's don't cause autism, they just DON'T. Every study over the past decade has confirmed this, hundreds of them, involving millions of kids and billions of dollars.
Meanwhile kids really do die when they aren't vaccinated.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 04/28/13 06:26 PM.
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Quote:
Give me a better way to put it if you can. I have a 10 1/2 year old boy who can't talk, still in diapers-do the math on the rest of that.
Every one of you will 'play the odds' but I call foul on that unless you've actually experienced this, really felt how it COMPLETELY turns your entire families life inside out, watched friends you thought you could count on conveniently fade out of your life and contemplate how you're going to provide for their future care when you're too old and feeble to do it yourself.
I'm very sorry to hear that. It sounds like a very challenging day-to-day that requires a lot of patience and courage and I wish you the best of luck.
But none of that has anything to do with the fact that he didn't call your child 'collateral damage', nor did he tell you that you just had to 'deal with it'.
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I have had to re-think my position about vaccinations.
At one time it was an obvious choice. But now, I am beginning to wonder if there is a correlation.
I can't criticize the parents for not wanting to have an infant vaccinated. That used to not be true.
I have a good friend that has an autistic adult now. The rate of autism is increasing at an alarming rate. Although we are told that there is no correlation, we have no information on what the cause is, and until we have a better understanding it may be more risky, but prudent to let the child's immune system develop a bit more before vaccinating the child.
The advise to the parent is sound.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
I have had to re-think my position about vaccinations.
At one time it was an obvious choice. But now, I am beginning to wonder if there is a correlation.
I can't criticize the parents for not wanting to have an infant vaccinated. That used to not be true.
I have a good friend that has an autistic adult now. The rate of autism is increasing at an alarming rate. Although we are told that there is no correlation, we have no information on what the cause is, and until we have a better understanding it may be more risky, but prudent to let the child's immune system develop a bit more before vaccinating the child.
The advise to the parent is sound.
The cause could be a multitude of things that didn't exist years ago. Think of all of the artificial crap we ingest in our food now as one example. To me that could be just as much of a source as vaccinations.
I agree with what Joker said above - if your kids have not been vaccinated they should not be permitted in public schools.
#gmstrong
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It's easy to say 'play the odds' now that you have played the odds and won. You might be singing a different tune had you lost. I have read all the research too, but I know what I saw. I hear all the scientific evidence that everyone else hears, but they've been wrong before. For example, according to 'scientist' bees should not be able to fly, their body weighs too much for their wings, but I see bees flying all the time.
My point is, the research may say one thing, but I have seen evidence in the real world that does not jive with the research. But I'm not going to argue with you anymore about it because you are going to believe what you want too and I can't change that.
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For example, according to 'scientist' bees should not be able to fly, their body weighs too much for their wings, but I see bees flying all the time.
What??
Edit: http://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 04/28/13 08:21 PM.
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It's easy to say 'play the odds' now that you have played the odds and won. You might be singing a different tune had you lost. I have read all the research too, but I know what I saw. I hear all the scientific evidence that everyone else hears, but they've been wrong before. For example, according to 'scientist' bees should not be able to fly, their body weighs too much for their wings, but I see bees flying all the time.
My point is, the research may say one thing, but I have seen evidence in the real world that does not jive with the research. But I'm not going to argue with you anymore about it because you are going to believe what you want too and I can't change that.
I'll let that speak for me and join Spawn and leave it at that.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Jc The current autism rate is 1 in 50, and increasing exponentially. This is old, but the chart is frightening. http://blog.autismspeaks.org/2010/10/22/...cience-staff-2/Clearly there is something at work here rather than random bad luck.
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OP
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The answer you are looking for is awareness People now know that autism exists and what to look for and therefore children who were going undiagnosed before (i.e. the explanation for the huge jump from the 1970s to now) are now getting diagnosed and receiving treatment and the help they need earlier and earlier. "much of the prevalence increase from 2007 to 2011–2012 for school-aged children was the result of diagnoses of children with previously unrecognized ASD." It doesn't explain everything, but it helps to understand what's going on.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
I have had to re-think my position about vaccinations.
At one time it was an obvious choice. But now, I am beginning to wonder if there is a correlation.
I can't criticize the parents for not wanting to have an infant vaccinated. That used to not be true.
I have a good friend that has an autistic adult now. The rate of autism is increasing at an alarming rate. Although we are told that there is no correlation, we have no information on what the cause is, and until we have a better understanding it may be more risky, but prudent to let the child's immune system develop a bit more before vaccinating the child.
The advise to the parent is sound.
The cause could be a multitude of things that didn't exist years ago. Think of all of the artificial crap we ingest in our food now as one example. To me that could be just as much of a source as vaccinations.
I agree with what Joker said above - if your kids have not been vaccinated they should not be permitted in public schools.
Beef. Injected with steroids, all kinds of anti disease drugs. Poultry, same thing. "Fresh" fruits and vegetables, chemical laden. The "pre cooked" meals? More chemicals than food. If it comes wrapped in plastic, may as well eat the plastic with the food.
Even salads - we eat them loaded up with fatty dressings........the dressings are chemicals, fat, and processed flavoring.
Preservatives, chemicals, they're in almost everything we eat.
"Baby" carrots? I don't believe there is such a thing, is there? Aren't "baby" carrots just regular carrots, run through a cut and grind process, then soaked in chlorine? Just read an article last week about them.
No, I'd say vaccines aren't the problem. It's what we eat that's more of a problem. That, and most people don't "work" anymore, in the physical sense.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 17,438 |
Awareness contributes but is not the driving factor in the increase. There is something else going on. At that rate of increase how long will it be before 1 in 5 children are diagnosed with ASD? Awareness doesnt cause that. Something external is causing this.
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From here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/us-autism-idUSBRE82S0P320120329Quote:
There is no brain-imaging test for autism, let alone a blood test or other rigorously objective diagnostic. Instead, physicians determine whether someone fits the criteria laid out in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, or DSM.
The manual has undergone significant changes over the years, including in the diagnostic criteria for autism. In its current version, someone must fit at least eight of 16 criteria, including symptoms involving social interaction, communication, and repetitive or restricted behaviors and interests.
The previous version was stricter, describing one diagnostic criterion as "a pervasive lack of responsiveness to other people." In the current manual, that became "a lack of spontaneous seeking to share .... achievements with other people" and friendships that appear less sophisticated than the norm for a child's age.
The earlier manual also required "gross deficits in language development" and "peculiar speech patterns" for a diagnosis, while the current one lists difficulty "sustain(ing) a conversation" or "lack of varied . . . social imitative play."
Morton Ann Gernsbacher, a professor of psychology and autism researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and others have cited these changes to question the reality of the reported autism increase.
The article also talks about the possibility that rates really are increasing, it's worth a read overall.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 04/28/13 09:35 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Baby Dies From Whooping Cough.
Parents chose not to vaccinate the
baby
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