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Dude if you're bringing up Charlies Oline which he had for 4 years and his completion percentage never went up but down..kinda tells me it's more than the oline..
Dude, I asked a question,,, and your response was slamming,,you can say it isn't slamming, but it is! But that's fair,, you are certainly allowed,, just don't deny it when someone calls you on it!
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Did his Oline consistenly get worse in College also?
I don't know if you can get consistently worse than horrible.
The line at Akron was dismal.
That's why he's such an accomplished scrambler. It's a good trait to have.
Now, if he can just learn how to throw a spiral............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't care if it wobbles and flops.... I just want results. It'd be nice if it was pretty, but I really don't care if it is or not  Win Pretty or Win Ugly, I don't care: Just Win.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'd mirror that, but when the weather off lake Drerie turns bad, wobblers turn into full-blown quackers.
I'd take a soft-tosser with pinpoint accuracy over a hard thrower without accuracy. As of right now, Frye has accuracy problems, and as long as he does, he's not a viable starter for us. Is it mechanics? Is it purely a physical problem that can't be fixed? I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that he's on his last shot. With all the noise that Savage is quietly making (er......yeah  ) about QB's, Frye may have allready had his last shot.
One more thing I want to add. It's not as though Frye was the 1st pick in the draft. If Savage decides it was a failed experiment, it's not a terrible investment so he can easily change directions without pressure. Frye as a starter: below-average. Frye as a backup: above-average, and in this league, it's important to have a solid #2.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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so let me get this right,, he never had a decent line in College?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Very good points.
I personally feel though that despite all of the noise out of Berea and thelocal news rags on QB's... we're going with Frye for 2007. I also feel that while it won't be said, that it is do or die for him as a starter in Cleveland and if anything, we're looking for a veteran of sorts to put in behind Charlie. If Charlie is struggling halfway through the season and things just aren't clicking, then out comes the hook.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I personally feel though that despite all of the noise out of Berea and thelocal news rags on QB's... we're going with Frye for 2007.
I personally feel we'll draft Quinn (or Russell if he's still there), that this is all dead horse beating. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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and your response was slamming,,you can say it isn't slamming
Ya know I really haven't slammed FRYE..I have not called him a bum or anything like that..I point out the things I see that make me feel he cannot be the long term answer at QB..
You guys who defend him (and I did too before I really looked at him hard) get defensive when someone points out negatives..If I were slamming hem I wouldn't say I like him..I do ..but he's a third round pick..not a first rounder who's floundering..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/03/07 03:11 PM.
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Until he's no longer there I'm holding out hope for Thomas...  nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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I'd mirror that, but when the weather off lake Drerie turns bad, wobblers turn into full-blown quackers.
I'd take a soft-tosser with pinpoint accuracy over a hard thrower without accuracy. As of right now, Frye has accuracy problems, and as long as he does, he's not a viable starter for us. Is it mechanics? Is it purely a physical problem that can't be fixed? I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that he's on his last shot. With all the noise that Savage is quietly making (er......yeah ) about QB's, Frye may have allready had his last shot.
One more thing I want to add. It's not as though Frye was the 1st pick in the draft. If Savage decides it was a failed experiment, it's not a terrible investment so he can easily change directions without pressure. Frye as a starter: below-average. Frye as a backup: above-average, and in this league, it's important to have a solid #2.
Well, I gotta agree with PitDawg about Frye's over 62% being a "trend" too. Not too shabby.... considering!
Like Toad I see the writing on the wall when it comes to the draft. The powers that be may believe that Frye had his chance and/or that there may not be any time soon that there will be a chance to draft a QB this high. If both QBs are gone then Frye gets more support. Then there will be no more doubt If a QB is drafted then Frye starts the season and gets more experience becoming either a better back-up or better starter in case the draftee is a bum. At this point there really isn't any place to go but up.
Last edited by Line Judge; 04/03/07 03:33 PM.
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Just something to think about when Frye's completion percentage is lobbied..
Chuck had a 64% completion rate, and yet many will tell you that his grasp of defenses moved a snail's distance from September to New Year's Eve.
What's interesting is that among those qb's in the bottom half of the league last year, Frye had the best completion percentage. That's the good news.
The bad news is that he and Bruce Gradkowski were the only ones to average less than ten yards per completion.
"I don't know where to go and the rush is coming, so allow me to dink."
So he doesn't go downfield enough and we all discussed that the OC didn't TRUST him enough to make vertical throws..
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I don't know where to go and the rush is coming, so allow me to dink."
So he doesn't go downfield enough and we all discussed that the OC didn't TRUST him enough to make vertical throws..
How can you throw down field while laying on your back
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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When he wasn't hit and had time what happened?
He wasn't hit on every single play..
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Until he's no longer there I'm holding out hope for Thomas...
nordawg
As you should... he's got to be in our top 3, saying our board looks something like this:
CJ
Russell
Thomas
Quinn
If the Raiders take Russell and the Lions take Thomas, we probably take Quinn over CJ, drafting need over BPA. If the Raiders take CJ and the Lions take Russell, we take Thomas? (Man, I can't wait to find out. )
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Haven't we have also discussed the lack of time the OL gave him for the opportunity to throw futher down field? and I can't understand why you would even mention an OC not trusting Frye. Didn't Mo get fired? Did we discuss how awful Mo was and that this team would not improve with Mo as the OC? I'm not a "Frye Guy" , but I'm solidly in the camp that Marino may not have done any better in the circumstances handed to Frye. Prove me wrong! BTW I can't prove myself right either!
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Attack,, did you see this on my first response to you It's a laughing guy,, meaning I'm kidding around with you,,, do you get it now or do I have to come up in your face See, there,,, I did it again,,, wanna see it again
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I was referring to Davidson ..he didn't instill any downfield plays either did he? But when Anderson came in they went vertical.. Whats wrong with that? Damanshot
..sometimes I foget to throw icons in my responses..here's one for ya..  i gotta go now..I'll be back tomorrow.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/03/07 03:53 PM.
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the browns need to draft peterson. we need to be able to run the damn ball, and jamal lewis and peterson would be a one two punch. plus a running game will help frye. petersons a stud, the complete package. we have not had a running game in 20 years!!
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As much as I think Thomas is the better guy long term, I would NOT be at all upset if we took Peterson,,, That kid has skill,,, no doubt about it1
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Frye was the 7th most sacked QB in the league last year, and he only played 13 games. Out of the top 7 sackees, Frye had the best completion percentage. Looks to me like the boy can take a beating and keep going, at least until something is broken. Of the top 10 sackees, he's 2nd in completion percentage. He is also 12th in the league last year for completion percentage for all QBs. This includes the backup QBs that threw a couple balls in relief.
That being said, I still think it's too early to get a good picture of Frye's ablility. I have more problems with his INTs than his completion percentage, which is pretty good. I think Frye could excell with a few line improvements and RB improvements.
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OK .... let's include Davidson in last season's failure.NO PROBLEMO....
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hmmh, didn't know that. . . got a linkydink?
![[Linked Image from s84.photobucket.com]](http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k4/okphi1124/th_untitled.jpg) WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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I saw some stats and that sounds about right, in fact I thought Frye was sacked more than that IIRC? Can you look for stats too? We are in this together , right ?
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I think there's a LOT of "presuming and assuming" that Savage evaluates both Quinn and Russel as franchise QB's.
None of us know that to be the case. He may only see one of them as franchise type QB's or neither. It will be an interesting time come draft day. That much is for sure..........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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When he wasn't hit and had time what happened?
He wasn't hit on every single play..
By my count Frye had 91 completions that were over 10 yards. That is out of 252 completions. I counted them up on game play by play from NFL.com
Those completions due include yards after catch because I had no way of breaking it down further. If I had to guess I would say that he probably threw around 240 passes out of 393 attempt for more than 10 yards. What does this mean? I really don't know unless I compare him to other QBs. I did notice a lot of receptions for 3 yards or less. That does lower his yards per completion quite a bit.
#gmstrong
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Clicking, pdawg.
I hope charlie makes it as much as most people here do, but I have my doubts.
I would be good if we went into the season with him as the starter to give him one last chance to prove himself. I would also be fine if we took Brady Quinn at #3. I don't see the point with getting Trent Green, don't want him at all.
Instead of Green, we may as well just draft BQ and be done with it.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Does anyone remember how long it took Drew Brees to get good in San Diego? I remember he sucked it up his first two years, then they picked Rivers, and he was solid, then the next year he (Brees) was great. That was on a better team than charlies been on.
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Not correct.
First year on the bench.
Second year starter. 8-8, not bad all things considered. Brees did not "suck"
Third year problems Bad OLine. He tries to do too much and tosses some ints and fumbles and gets set down. Chargers Draft Rivers.
4th year. 5 new OLine starters.. Brees goes to the Pro-Bowl.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Frye's work ethic is unbelievable and he will be the starter next year.. He is a good QB who just has a few things he needs to work on.. doesn't every new QB in the league?
I have confidence in the guy.. It would be nice to see him as the face of the Cleveland Browns.. Glad he is on the team..
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j/c: I feel the need to address some things that were said that I feel are not true. ---Frye throwing behind or in front of receivers all the time. I don't think Frye is the most accurate passer. In fact, I think it might be his biggest weakness. However, it has been well documented that some of his receivers were not running proper routes. They rounded them off...they ran the wrong routes....they went outside instead of inside or just the opposite...they didn't know the plays.....etc. I would say that has a little to do w/Charlie throwing to the wrong shoulder. *L* Charlie has an incredibly weak arm. Charlie does not have a gun, but his arm isn't as weak as most of his naysayers make it out to be. Not even close. LOL.....some of you act like he throws every pass like a wounded duck. The Browns did not throw deep w/Charlie, but did w/Anderson.  If anything, it was just the opposite. The Browns threw more deep passes then their opponents in almost every game. To say otherwise is a load of crap. Having different offensive coordinators doesn't hurt a QB. Another gem.  That used to be a valid reason for Timid's problems, but it isn't even a factor for Charlie. Okie dokie.  Charlie has not shown any improvement. Another stupid statement. First off, he hasn't played all that long to even make that comment. Secondly, he did show some improvement, especially in the KC game. Finally, it's hard to not make mistakes when you are asked to carry the offense. And Charlie was asked to do that, because the talent that Savage put around him was putrid. I can't remember how many times I would say ...man, they are putting a lot of pressure on that kid. You are supposed to protect young QBs, the Browns did just the opposite. Charlie has peaked. He cannot get any better. LMAO......there were a lot of dumb statements, but that one is probably the dumbest. Hmmmmm...wait. Let me take that back. Leave out the "probably." I would like to know how the hell anyone can make such a statement? Go ahead and explain it for me. I'll be waiting for you.  One last thing. I am not sold on Charlie Frye. However, there are too many people throwing him under the bus for problems that were not his doing. Kinda reminds me of the Mo situation. Savage gets a pass and the innocents get blamed. That offense was one of the worst ever assembled. True genius. I wonder how many of the guys bashing him were the same guys calling for Dilfer's head and screaming to give Charlie a chance? 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Damn, vers, we agree on something agian, good post. Know if I could just get you to say you like Peterson................... 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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I like Peterson. He would look great in a Vikings, Texans, or Giants uniform.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I must admit, you got me.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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good points verse.,
This is the time of year when the emperor has no clothes.
People seem to remember a lot more about a player than is actual fact, perception is more convienent than reality.
One of the things that I have done is go back and watch some of the taped games. Frye has some faults, and may not be the answer but his play was not that bad considering the lack of a run game and an OL.
The biggest issue I had with the Browns was the number of check downs because of the lack of OL protection. PDawgs stat says it all.
Last edited by ChargerDawg; 04/03/07 10:20 PM.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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However, it has been well documented that some of his receivers were not running proper routes. They rounded them off...they ran the wrong routes....they went outside instead of inside or just the opposite...they didn't know the plays
Where has this been documented??? I have never seen it... I saw it once when all this talk was about Tim Couch and we had 2 rookies starting at WR.....But I have not seen it since. I could have easily missed them...but I swear the ONLY place I have ever seen it documented is right here on this board through user opinion and peolple saying it was documented....
Now, we were given insight that was saying that Charlie did not know the plays and was taking 5 and 7 step drops when the play asked for 3....But I have yet to see an article claiming that his receivers were running the wrong routes. I mean I am not saying it is not true.....I just haven't seen the articles.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I have confidence in the guy.. It would be nice to see him as the face of the Cleveland Browns.. Glad he is on the team..
How confident are you.....would you be willing to bet a years salary on it???? Oh and here is the kicker...if he does develop, you don't get anything. You just get to keep your money. Would you like to make that bet???? That is the very bet that faces Crennell and Savage.
I personally have no confidence in him to lead this team where it needs to go. I have confidence in him that he will fight to his last breath...but if you are a duck going up against a lion, all that fight isn't really going to change the outcome.
And people say he has lost the confidence of his teamates or that his teamates support him completely...I don't know which is correct. But I do know that the receivers were excited for Anderson because he got the ball to them quickly.(will do what I can to find a link). It wasn't a big thing...and maybe you could look too much into it...but the implication was that they were excited to get the ball on time for once.
After scrounging a bit..I found this.... http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/16265337.htm
It wasn't what I was looking for....but for now it will have to do. will keep looking tho...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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hmmh, didn't know that. . . got a linkydink?
I got my stats off the NFL.com stats page.
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When he wasn't hit and had time what happened?
Our defense was on the field.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Pete, Pete, Pete *sigh* your using the term "receivers" being excited but you post an example with only Edwards speaking, and in the same article RAC says this about Abderson "``He still threw some interceptions and missed some guys and got trapped into sacks trying to make a play,'' coach Romeo Crennel said. ``And that's not good enough.''
Now don't take this as me bashing Anderson because I think he is in the same boat as Charlie. He has not played enough nor had the time to prove or disprove anything.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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