DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Owens feels system changes affecting Frye

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Some people will call me biased....I think that is a crock....I have been consistant in my opinions and what I look for

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Consistently bias? Just having fun with you Pete,,, that just struck me as funny is all!

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and frankly, more people have been switching their tunes on Charlie...and it hasn't been to the side of support.

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I don't know how true that is, but there isn't any good way to verify it either way. I tend to think that we were pretty much split down the middle when we drafted him and I don't think it's changed much since..

Except in the Media! They hate or love on players for reasons that have nothing to do with ability,, For them it's all about stirring the pot to get attention... and yeah, there have been a ton of comments in the press about the Browns needing a new QB! So that in turn fuels public opinion on charlie amoung the casual fan..

I'd be way more likely to believe something you wrote than what Tony Grossi wrote in the Plain Dealer... you have knowledge and no axe to grind,,, Tony is an idiot and proves it every week (is it ok to call a reporter and idiot,,I know it's name calling, but he's not here so is it ok )

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Between them, Leon and K2 ran the wrong route on 19 plays.

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Does anyone else think that maybe this is why CF was holding the ball too long? If your QB doesn't know where his recievers are going, he sure can't hit a spot.

JJ came alive at the end of the season. Maybe DA knew that Joe was the only one he could trust to be where he was supposed too.

Learn the playbook guys. It might actually make this O better.

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My god, you especially, make up the most insane excuses for the kid.

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There were more than a couple of articles about it. I can't give you links or anything, but I think the article about Joe J. talked about it.

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Are you just making things up again?


I remember one of those articles and will try to find it later.

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None of them had success here thus it must be them and not something else right?

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That's crazy talk Toad... It's all the O-Line's fault...

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This is nothing new with the Browns receivers, as this team has been plagued with lack of concentration both in catching the ball as well as route running

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4) There was a play in the third period Sunday when the Ravens' Chris McAlister intercepted an Anderson pass intended for Braylon Edwards. Here are three versions of that play. Anderson: "I'm throwing it to a spot, let him go get it. The corner jumped in front of it. It's an anticipation route. It's got to be on the numbers.'' Edwards: "Chris McAlister was waiting for that ... He was waiting for that all day, especially after the post route we caught for a touchdown. As soon as I stick my foot in the ground, he bit hard on it. DA put it in the spot and (McAlister) was already in the spot.'' Romeo Crennel: "The second interception was a pretty good throw and the receiver should have been inside a little more. The defensive back beat him to the ball.'' Who was responsible? Bernie Kosar once informed me that a quarterback's job is to throw to a spot, that there's too much chaos to sit and think or look around. He has to drop, plant, read and throw to the spot. The receiver's job, Kosar said, is to win, and get to that spot. In this case, Edwards not only didn't win, he didn't try to get to the spot to break up the pass. Result: McAlister made a good play, but the Browns had a turnover they maybe could have avoided.

5) Two plays prior, Anderson saw his streak of 13 completions in a row end when he threw to just about the same spot and Edwards was not there. Edwards made an out move; Anderson threw inside, where he thought Edwards would be. Crennel didn't say it was that specific play, but he described one play this way: "I know one time the receiver made an outside fake and then came back inside and the ball was already there.'' As Kosar might say, there's no time for outside fakes; the receiver's job is to win and be where he's supposed to be.

6) Edwards also said that the Browns had to burn timeouts on offense because plays were not getting to Anderson on time. He said there was something wrong with Anderson's earpiece. Crennel was asked if that happened: "He never complained to me about not being able to hear the call,'' Crennel said. As for the timeouts burned, Crennel said: "I think the plays were going in on time. There were one or two times where guys might not have lined up correctly and then we had to get them back to where we wanted them. That became a problem.''

7) If this is picking on Edwards, so be it, but football is a precise game. Teams practice continually so players know the plays and know where to be and are where they are supposed to be. Small mistakes lead to big problems, and it's evident that Edwards' attention to detail was missing at times in Baltimore. He came through with some plays, yes, but imagine how good a game he could have had -- and the team could have had -- had he paid attention to detail for the entire game.

8) Here's another example of precision and youth making errors. The Browns ran a screen pass to Lawrence Vickers in the first half. Cosey Coleman cut underneath Vickers and blocked his man outside. For some reason, Vickers chose to run outside -- right into the tackler. Instead of following his block to a decent gain, Vickers and the Browns got next to nothing.

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There isn't (read: shouldn't) be a question as to whether or not Edwards had issues with route running. He did. Having said that, it's fair to judge Frye based on when all the factors in a play were as they should have been.

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I mean as far as I can tell I'm the only one who seems to think we can be good this coming year.

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Well I for one hope your right about that... But Good is a relative term,, means different things to different people,, Good to me would be a .500 season,,,, others think that nothing short of a Superbowl win is good,,,

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Everyone is tired of arguing about Frye, but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to stop. After all, it’s essentially the end of free agency and the draft is 30 days away –so why not look a little closer? What can it hurt?

A lot has been made of the fact that Frye had 10 TD's to 17 INT's. Is that bad? Yes, it’s horrible. One thing we can all agree on is that it needs corrected. Another thing we can all agree on – a hail mary at the end of a half that’s picked is just a stat and nothing more – it does no harm. Frye had 1 hail mary interception – so the reality is he had 10 TD’s to 16 INT's. Still sucks, I know. Now let’s take a closer look at the other 16 INT's and see what situations they came in.

What do most teams in the NFL do when they are down by 10 or more points in the 4th quarter? Everyone all together now --- THROW. Yea, we all got the answer correct. 7 of his INT's came when we were down by 11 or more points. (5 of those we were down by 17 or more in the 4th quarter). Do you think they knew we were going to pass? I know when I watched I was surprised teams weren’t stacking 9 in the box. For those counting, that leaves 9 INT's left. I couldn’t remember every game with a “drop” that turned into a pick. 2 stick out for sure, the infamous Edwards vs. the Saints and Northcutt vs. Carolina. Two guaranteed passes that were off WR hands. That leaves 7 INT's left. Right now the Frye haters are saying, “Soup loves Frye – he’s making excuses". The logical people are saying, “That’s a horrible situation for a QB to be in.” How many QB's have success down by 17 in the 4th? Back to the other 7 INT's:

Vs. Saints – trailing by 6 in the first half.

Vs. Baltimore – up by 2 in the 4th. He was blind sided as he threw.

Vs. San Diego – up by 3 on a 1st down.

Vs. Oakland – down by 7 and the infamous one up by 3 in the 4th, quite possibly the worst idea by a QB in NFL history. 2nd and goal from the 6 he basically threw a hail mary that was picked off. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not that this is an excuse – but what idiot of an OC is going to throw on 2nd and goal from the 6 in the 4th while up by 3 when you are having a great day running the ball? By the way, we won the game – Frye threw 3 TD’s.

Vs. New York Jets – up by 7 in the 2nd Q. We won the game and Frye also threw a TD

Vs. Houston – tied at 0, 2nd down in the red zone. Hurt wrist, he was supposed to be out for the year.

Without watching game film of those 7 that are left, the blind side can’t be blamed on Frye. 7 INT's in a bad situation, 2 off WR hands, 1 off a blind side and 6 that are his fault. 6 to truly blame in 13 games, how bad is that?

Everyone is thinking, “but Frye sucked vs. the Bengals in game 2 why isn’t that on here. It’s because Soup loves Frye so he won’t bring up that dismal performance.” The second Bengals game was by far Frye’s worst statistical performance with 0 TD’s and 4 INT's. I looked at play by play to get a better understanding of the game. Here’s what I found. Frye was 8-13 in the first half. His 14th pass was intercepted – it was a hail mary at the end of the half, we were down by 17. Frye then threw 2 INT's when we were down by 24 points. His final one, this is the one that cost us the game – we were down by 30 with 3 minutes left and it was 4th down from our own 12. Yep, Frye sure cost us that game. What a bum, huh? Too much is being made of Frye’s 4th Q INT's, especially when you need 3 scores in the 4th for the comeback.

Frye completed 64% of his passes on the year and was 9-12 on 3rd and short for 1st downs. Something that really stuck out (I preface this by saying Frye’s stats were removed by me); of the 13 games – 5 of them we had 17 or less carries, in 5 we had 21 to 24 carries, in the other 3 we had 26 or more carries. Can anyone guess which 3?

“OOOH, OOOOH, OOOOH, ME, ME”!

“Yes, Soup?”

“Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets and Oakland Raiders.”

“That’s correct, in 3 of our 4 wins we ran the ball 26 or more times.”

We carried the ball 23 times vs. Atlanta – we played great defense and Frye was mistake free. By the way, Reuben Droughns was 2nd to LAST in the AFC in YPC (yards per carry) on 1st down. Again, not a situation you should put any QB into. Bottom line, Frye wasn’t as bad as his stats show. The truth is the offense lacked a game plan and had a retarded OC ruin the first 7 games of the year. Not something you can blame on the QB.

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good points verse.,

This is the time of year when the emperor has no clothes.

People seem to remember a lot more about a player than is actual fact, perception is more convienent than reality.

One of the things that I have done is go back and watch some of the taped games. Frye has some faults, and may not be the answer but his play was not that bad considering the lack of a run game and an OL.

The biggest issue I had with the Browns was the number of check downs because of the lack of OL protection. PDawgs stat says it all.

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Good Point!
Frye did keeps us in many games, that should have been complete blowouts.

How many times did Frye run for first downs and drive down the field in the last few minutes? Yes it would end in the end zone throwing an interception , but he did get us down the field and lived to tell about it.

If we have a Stud LT, and a Star RB I think we would win many games.

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and I think that should be the honest answer of every Brownsfan at this point....I´ve seen enough improvement in the ATL and KC game..even the 1st PIT and BAL games

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Terry Bradshaw
G A C % YDS YPA TD INTs
13 218 83 38.1 1,410 6.5 6 24

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Thats almost 2 INT's per game.

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J/C

I think we should focus less on our QB and more on our running game...

I'd feel a lot less concerned about Charlie with a bona fide ground attack.

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