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If we trade away all our picks..
How will people complain about who we picked?
Why are people on this board always going over the top and saying things that are just not close to being true?!!!!
Come on man... all our picks  
It seems like some on here dont need an excuse to complain 
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
- Isaac Asimov
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All Pro
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I know my previos explanation about future pick value was apparently fairly confusing (defunct Browns' message board), but I will attempt to explain it here. Year over year, there is a 1/2 round deduction in overall value (you're trading away a year of development and the coaches/GM's would prefer their guys now). Hence the last pick in the 1st round would be worth about pick 48 this year, et cetera. Unfortunately, without the use of a crystal ball there is no way to know how next year's draft is going to pan out. The only thing you can do is devide the league into groups of three; those likely to pick high, the mid ground teams, and those likely to make the playoffs. With that in mind, you can decifer likely value of future picks. As such, the following is my opinion of the value of the two trades. Trade 1: Cleveland's 14th (?) pick in the 4th round for the Steelers 2014 3rd round pick. -Overall Value: B+ Why: The 14th pick in a draft is worth approximately the 29th or 30th pick of the previous round in the next year's draft. If the Steelers make the AFC Championship game or better, they get the value nod here. However those odds are probably less than 20% (between making the playoffs in a division with Baltimore and Cincy, their loses/age and having to ikely win two playoof games). It may be tempting to complain about trading with a rival, but it's still a good move (and I really wanted Phillip Thomas here). B+ The 6th pick in round 5 for the colts 4th (2014): Overall Value: C- Why: The 6th pick in a draft is worth approximately the 21st or 22nd pick of the previous round in the next year's draft. If the Colts make the Playoffs or better, they likely get the value nod here. Those odds are probably about or better than 50% (Between being in a division with the Jaquars and Andrew Luck entering year 2). Heck they picked 24th (?) this year with a rookie QB and a coach in the hospital for half the season. In addtion, unlike the Steeler trade, this is a day 3 pick for a day three pick next year. I cannot give this trade higher than a ho-hum C-. Does any of that make sense? 
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Legend
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Again, it's not just me questioning the draft ability of the Browns dynamic duo...here is another read.
First a couple comments about the previous article I posted ...
....have you ever heard a CEO of the other 31 NFL franchises, say they prefer to trade "within their division" ?...Banner actually said "that".
...I'm sure the Steelers appreciate Banner's help as they got themselves a pretty good safety prospect (who runs a 4.44 and did 28 reps on the bench) with the Browns #111 pick ...Shamarko Thomas was the #4 ranked SS...in exchange, the Browns will pick up a few draft slots in 2014 with the Steelers 3rd round pick.
...what is odd, I thought safety was one of the positions the Browns needed to fill in this draft. Shamarko Thomas was the best available SS and the Browns could have drafted him instead of helping out our division rival, giving the Steelers our #111 pick.
...trying to figure this move our after the Steelers took a Thomas, my thought was, maybe the Safety position is not a priority for the Browns.
Next, the Browns trade away their 5 rounder to the Colts for their 4th rounder next year...I won't comment on that now.
....then with the Browns (#7 pick) in the 6th round, Banner and Lombardi, TAKE A SAFETY...a SS out of ND who is recuperating from a ruptured achilles, suffered in the 3rd game of last season. If we needed a SS in round 6...we sure as hell needed the SS the Steelers took with our #111 pick...why help the Steelers and hurt ourselves at the same time?
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Browns trade away most of third day
April 28, 2013
By MIKE McLAIN - Tribune Chronicle
BEREA - In the rush to put a grade on the Cleveland Browns' 2013 draft class, a common mistake would be to use a letter from 'A' to 'F.'
Too many strange happenings took place during the three-day process to give a normal grade. That's why this draft group needs an 'I' for incomplete.
Mike Lombardi's first draft as general manager proved to be one of the most unique in years. The Browns traded out of the fourth and fifth rounds with no return this year. Instead, they'll get a third-round pick (for the fourth-rounder) next year and a fourth-round choice (for the fifth-rounder) next year.
The deal for the fourth-round pick was with the rival Pittsburgh Steelers, who used the choice on Syracuse hard-hitting safety Shamarko Thomas. If Thomas sacks quarterback Brandon Weeden at all next season, you can expect to hear groans from a fan base that is undoubtedly scratching its head today.
Wait, there's more. Each of the Browns' three day-three choices has issues. Safety Jamoris Slaughter of Notre Dame (sixth round) is recovering from a torn Achilles' tendon. Hybrid defensive end and seventh-round pick Armonty Bryant of East Central (Okla.) was arrested for twice trying to sell marijuana to an undercover cop on school grounds. Chadron State offensive tackle Garrett Gilkey, another seventh-round choice, had minor heart surgery prior to his freshman year of high school and missed time early in the 2011 college season recovering from a ruptured appendix.
Obviously there's a plan involved, but as of today it looks as shaky as owner James Haslam's marketing tactics. CEO Joe Banner views the plan in the wide scope of the future.
"We viewed (receiver Davone) Bess as part of the draft and it gave us the opportunity to trade back a few spots and acquire him and keep the same number of picks and then trade them for future picks," Banner said.
Bess was acquired in a day two deal with the Miami Dolphins. The teams swapped fourth-and fifth-round choices, with the Browns moving down several spots in both rounds.
Bess adds veteran depth at an area of need. He has 321 career receptions for 3,447 yards and 12 touchdowns since joining the NFL in 2008.
The trade with the Steelers opened eyes for obvious reasons. Most teams take the philosophy of rarely trading with a team within its division. Banner follows an opposite approach, pointing out that the Philadelphia Eagles traded aging quarterback Donovan McNabb to the division rival Washington Redskins when he worked in Philadelphia.
"I prefer to trade within the division because you don't make a trade you don't think you're winning," Banner said. "Sometimes that can burn you. We try to make the best deal. It doesn't matter who it's with."
Banner revealed that the Browns had multiple offers for their fourth-round pick that were similar to the deal they made with the Steelers.
The Browns ended the draft adding six players. They had six choices prior to the draft (relinquishing a second-round choice for receiver Josh Gordon in a supplemental draft last June), but they gained fifth and seventh-round picks in the trade that sent quarterback Colt McCoy to the San Francisco 49ers.
Making trades for future picks won't sit well with the fan base. While admitting all the holes on the roster can't be filled this offseason, Banner said that the Browns haven't written off the 2013 season.
"We're not asking for any free passes for this year," Banner said. "We expect to improve and we expect it to be conspicuous. When we look at the players and coaches we've brought in, we're not saying we don't expect to be better. We're not going to reach all our goals this year."
The only drafted player that has a solid shot at starting is LSU outside linebacker Barkevious Mingo, the sixth overall pick. Cornerback Leon McFadden of San Diego State has a legitimate chance to start in what will be a battle with Buster Skrine and free-agent addition Chris Owens.
Coach Rob Chudzinski agrees with Banner that no one is writing off wins next season.
"Our goal is to win and always will be," Chudzinski said. "We'll approach it from that standpoint. I want us to progress on a daily basis. That's always your focus as a coach."
Grading this draft in April of 2013 probably isn't the wisest of choices.
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Legend
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With an open mind, ask your self: "'Would the picks traded away have helped the Browns this year more than the extra picks next year will help them."?
I can't answer that. But I do highly doubt that the picks traded away this year will not be seen, come draft time next year, as positives.
Look, even with those picks, we aren't going to the superbowl, or playoffs.
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With an open mind this is the wrost draft in our history. The funny thing for Lomabardi is it not his worst draft ever. The best pick was made by the guys they fired and they are trying to take credit for. Along with saying I perfer to trade within the division. He thinks he got the best of the Stoolers. These guys make Butch Davis look draft gensius. LOL.... Our only hope is the FBI... Do Feds Go.... Clap clap clap.... Go Feds GO...... Clap Clap Clap
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All Pro
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Quote:
With an open mind, ask your self: "'Would the picks traded away have helped the Browns this year more than the extra picks next year will help them."?
I can't answer that. But I do highly doubt that the picks traded away this year will not be seen, come draft time next year, as positives.
Look, even with those picks, we aren't going to the superbowl, or playoffs.
I'm probably not the guy to ask that since Phillip Thomas was still there in the 4th (though that was clearly the better value of the two trades).
As far as the 5th round trade, that is the only argument that is keeping the tattered remnants of my sanity together.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Legend
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Wow I cannot believe how many complainers there are...just amazing.
Point ONE n a Big BUTT point it is.
This was one of the weakest draft classes maybe seen in two Decades??? WEAK!!!
Boo hoo we traded a 4th for a Steelers 3rd. We are doomed really...a weak ass 4th round draft class for a much stronger 2014 3rd round pick??? Really.
Boo Hoo we passed on a GREAT SS of course if we took him the same guys would be saying...WHAT WHY ARE WE TAKING A SS when we got Ward...which would have been much football educated than the whine n lack of differentiating from our possible FS need compared with pretty MUCH ZERO Need for a SS. We passed on nothing.
Steelers have not faired that well over the last few drafts why they got a problem - In years past when they let go of a Harrison they had a stud waiting...where n when is he now?
OL didn't get a shot as the weak class had all the good OL n even 2nd round OL go quick.
2014 is suppose to be a stronger draft class so we are talking Player n talent wise I don't care if it is the SAME pick 2013 to 2014 we will have a better choice of talent...and it is far from SAME PICK...cause you got to add all the Compensation picks at the end of the 3rd.
Same with the 5th for the Colts 4th...who might have a bit tougher schedule this year than last!
Do I know our guys are going to be studs? Funny how some of you know a 4th round pick for the Steelers are going to be a stud. You do realize Palo n he play the same position. Palo going to FS cause of the beatings he takes...btw Loved Sanders where is he know? He took a beating.
I see us having very good players on this team from 2010,11 n 12 27 were on our Roster mostly from those 3 years. We added 5 key players who should all stick unless the DE/OLB Man among boys prospect falls in the cracks due to drugs!
McFadden I see as an excellent Cover Corner...hope he can play the run well. But he was in a Throw first Conference. He can press n play back also saw a lot of good diguise in his coverages as well! But we get Boo Hoo we could have had Honey Badger...pfft. Has a great support system w/Peterson - I hope he makes it. Meanwhile he is what 5'8" ours is 5' 10" and all I here is our guys is too short...lol  love the way that happens.
I've been accused of being a Homer in the past. Well you guys on the other side of the spectrum are so so unrealistic compared to my praises. At least I state - WHO KNOWS.
We did a good job overall. In a weak draft class we came away with: 3rd n 4thd round picks for 2014. Davon Bess a starting slot WR n maybe punt returner. Josh Gordon a #1 WR...n 5 picks who should make our Roster n contribute. The only Pie in the Sky prospect I see is this kid Bryant late round pick from a small school n a dumb arrest.
Risk is MINIMAL but the UPSIDE is Great. The words from some Scouts...real scouts not Pretend scouts were Ware like. Hey he'll be great or out of football in 3 years.
I think we made very key moves from 2012 to 2013 adding to our First Ever drafted Foundation of 27 players.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Dawg Talker
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Hello all....
I signed up just to join this thread. I thought these trades were excellent moves and i'm pretty disappointed by the abject negativity. It seems to be negativity just for negativity's sake...
That was a very well thought out first overall post, impressive. Probably because I agree with just about everything you said. 
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Dawg Talker
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I disliked the moves also considering the holes we still have on the team. However in the long run it makes sense. We added a handful of free agents and still have a lot of young guys. If this team goes 5-11 again next year we'll have the extra draft picks to move up to any spot in the draft we need to that ensures we get the Quarterback we want.
Or if we go 8-8 and keep Weeden, we'll be able to use those extra picks next year on luxury picks, which we never get to do. We need to sign a veteran free safety and corner to come in and help us out for this season though.
It was a smart move for next years draft.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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Hall of Famer
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With an open mind this is the wrost draft in our history. The funny thing for Lomabardi is it not his worst draft ever. The best pick was made by the guys they fired and they are trying to take credit for. Along with saying I perfer to trade within the division. He thinks he got the best of the Stoolers. These guys make Butch Davis look draft gensius. LOL.... Our only hope is the FBI... Do Feds Go.... Clap clap clap.... Go Feds GO...... Clap Clap Clap
I wish the Official board had never shut down. 
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Dawg Talker
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With an open mind, ask your self: "'Would the picks traded away have helped the Browns this year more than the extra picks next year will help them."?
I can't answer that. But I do highly doubt that the picks traded away this year will not be seen, come draft time next year, as positives.
Look, even with those picks, we aren't going to the superbowl, or playoffs.
Damit Arch after some of out debates i really hate to agree with you...but this is my feelings on things..Hell i got no problems with our draft of course i'll be doing more deer hunting this yr...need the meat when your on ss...
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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You tell 'em EO. I like the fact that Banner had similar offers from teams outside our division but chose to trade with the steelers to weaken them next year. I like the trades and the first looks at our later round picks. EO check out Garret Gilkey on youtube.
GO BROWNS!
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Legend
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Quote:
This was one of the weakest draft classes maybe seen in two Decades??? WEAK!!!
EO...so there wasn't anyone in this draft worthy of the Browns #4 draft pick?...
Obviously Banner thought the Browns needed a SS...he drafted one in the 6th round.
Obviously the Banner thought we need help at OG...he drafted one...in the 7th round.
If the Browns needed a SS in the 6th round, they sure as hell needed one in the 4th or 5th round...maybe a better prospect than they drafted at the end of the draft, you think?
If the Browns needed a OG in the 7th round, they sure needed one in the 4th or 5th rounds...mabe a better prospect than they drafted at the end of the draft.
Concerning TJ Ward being a SS and the Browns not needing one...we drafted a SS out of ND.
Concerning TJ Ward being a SS and the Browns not needing one...guess what, the Steelers made the same mistake when they drafted SS Shamarko Thomas, with the Browns #111 pick...Troy Polomalu is a Strong Safety too...why would the Steelers draft Shamarko Thomas, another SS?
...just so happens, if you read Thomas' scouting reports, it talks about his versatility, speed and toughness. I'm sure the Steelers see him as nothing less than depth at both FS and SS...he is that good of an athlete.
But no, we didn't need someone like Thomas on the team this year...maybe next year...
It definitely shows a lack of urgency by the Browns new front office, willing to bypass upgrading the team this year...waiting on next year.
Last edited by mac; 04/28/13 03:50 PM.
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Legend
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Mac, you are so far off base it isn't even funny anymore.
This front office has done a great job to this point, yet you and a few of the other trolls continue to pout and moan at everything they do.
I for one am tired of it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
This was one of the weakest draft classes maybe seen in two Decades??? WEAK!!!
EO...so there wasn't anyone in this draft worthy of the Browns #4 draft pick?...
Obviously Banner thought the Browns needed a SS...he drafted one in the 6th round.
Obviously the Banner thought we need help at OG...he drafted one...in the 7th round.
If the Browns needed a SS in the 6th round, they sure as hell needed one in the 4th or 5th round...maybe a better prospect than they drafted at the end of the draft, you think?
Value, n. :: a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged
Obviously the VALUE wasn't there in the 4th/5th. It was in the 6th/7th.
It's a simple concept, really. One I find hard to believe so many of you can't grasp.
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Legend
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peen and the rest...so you think it's just me being too critical on Haslam, Banner and Lombardi???
HERE...
NFL Draft grades: Report card time for all 32 teams
Published Saturday, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:46 pm EDT Last updated 4 hours and 28 minutes ago
They say it takes three years to grade a draft class. That's good in theory, but the NFL is a "win now" league, where quick turnarounds are possible with one good draft—see the 2012 Colts or the 2011 Bengals. That can lead to unreasonable expectations for coaches and general managers, where three years is an eternity to see results from players.
Plus, what's the fun in waiting that long to see how your team did, both in terms of the talent it got and the needs it filled? This year, well before those 254 players drafted in '13 play a down, here's a look at how we think every team graded out during the league's ultimate crash course in personnel:
Grade: A
Pittsburgh Steelers: It's as if they had a checklist for their four biggest needs, and knew the right players to fill all of them. Georgia edge-rushing outside linebacker Jarvis Jones? Check. Michigan State power back Le'Veon Bell? Check. Oregon State speed receiver Markus Wheaton? Check. Syracuse high-energy safety Shamarko Thomas? Check. With nine picks in all they could also load up on depth later, including Oklahoma quarterback Landry Jones to develop behind Ben Roethlisberger.
Philadelphia Eagles: Top to bottom, Chip Kelly had a great first NFL Draft—using his college knowledge, especially from the Pac-12, to the Eagles' advantage. Offensively, Oklahoma left tackle Lane Johnson and Stanford tight end Zach Ertz are ideal athletes for what he wants to do, and he ended up just needing a fourth-rounder to bring USC's Matt Barkley into his quarterback competition. Defensively, with Philadelphia transitioning to a 3-4, it got the key elements of a nose tackle (LSU's Bennie Logan), edge rusher (Utah's Joe Kruger) and a starting-caliber corner (Oregon State's Jordan Poyer) in Round 7.
MORE: Complete draft board | Trade tracker
Green Bay Packers: The highlight of another good Ted Thompson haul was doubling up on running backs with Alabama's Eddie Lacy and UCLA's Johnathan Franklin. After their recent injury mess at the position, the powerful fresh legs the Packers now have sets them up for a much stronger committee approach. They also nailed the first round with UCLA defensive end Datone Jones, a versatile player ready to be a productive pass rusher in their 3-4. Then they went for two offensive tackles—Colorado's David Bakhtiari and Cornell's J.C. Tretter—who will end up helping on their line somewhere.
San Francisco 49ers: They didn't waste their final tally of 11 picks. It was highlighted by replacing key veterans (LSU safety Eric Reid for Dashon Goldson, Rice tight end Vance McDonald for Delanie Walker) and stockpiling speedy pass rushers (Florida State's Tank Carradine, Auburn's Corey Lemonier). Because of the volume, they added another receiver to help Colin Kaepernick (Louisiana Tech's Quinton Patton) and stash the ideal if-healthy successor to Frank Gore (South Carolina's Marcus Lattimore).
Jacksonville Jaguars: New GM David Caldwell aced his first test. The Jaguars have the luxury to put Texas A&M athletic first-rounder Luke Joeckel at right tackle. They shored up their secondary with a much-needed cleanup safety (Florida International's Jonathan Cyprien) and strong all-around cover corner (Connecticut's Dwayne Gratz) to start right away. For an offense and special teams short on playmakers, that quotient was raised by South Carolina's Ace Sanders and Michigan's Denard Robinson back to back. Caldwell also was smart not to reach for a quarterback when the value was never quite there, and got an intriguing undrafted free agent in Arizona's Matt Scott.
Grade: A-
Cincinnati Bengals: Welcome to the Jungle, where the Bengals have buried their bungling, and done it with offense. See Notre Dame mismatch-creating tight end Tyler Eifert and North Carolina speed back Giovani Bernard. Andy Dalton and A.J. Green got it going in '11, and Mohamed Sanu and Marvin Jones were good follow-ups in '12. Eifert and Bernard are great options for Dalton to further break out of his Green dependency. They also made their defensive strength stronger, as SMU's 6-8 Estonian end Margus Hunt fits right in with their pass rush. Georgia's Shawn Williams fills free safety.
Minnesota Vikings: The thing about their three first-rounders taken in the 20s—Florida defensive tackle Sharrif Floyd, Florida State cornerback Xavier Rhodes and Tennessee wide receiver Cordarrelle Patterson—is that they all were considered top-dozen picks at some point. Floyd fits as a run stopper in their 4-3 to a tee, and likewise, Rhodes' size and zone coverage ability works just as well on the back end for Leslie Frazier. After having no scary outside threats last season, the Vikings go to a Patterson-Greg Jennings combination. They've come out aggressive to boost their playoff status.
Arizona Cardinals: Their most-talked about pick was LSU cornerback Tyrann Mathieu, who is a wild card on and off the field. But they should get more attention for their sure-fire selections. North Carolina guard Jonathan Cooper fills a huge need for interior blocking help. LSU inside linebacker Kevin Minter brings sound tackling to their 3-4, and Texas end/outside linebacker Alex Okafor gives them more pass-rush pop for it. Stanford running back Stepfan Taylor can be a short-term feature option with Rashard Mendenhall and Ryan Williams trying to shake off injuries. Texas A&M quick slot receiver Ryan Swope is a good late-round flyer.
Houston Texans: They started with a bang to complement two future Hall of Famers, a wide receiver opposite Andre Johnson (Clemson's DeAndre Hopkins) and a hard-hitting strong safety to support Ed Reed (South Carolina's D.J. Swearinger). They also got an option to solidify right tackle (North Carolina's Brennan Williams) opposite Pro Bowler Duane Brown. With Connor Barwin gone, they had to restock their pass-rush quiver behind J.J. Watt, and Wade Phillips' coaching should boost what LSU's Sam Montgomery and Connecticut's Trevardo Williams can do as 3-4 outside linebackers.
MORE: Complete draft board | Trade tracker
Grade: B+
Baltimore Ravens: So much for getting their defense raided in the offseason. They reloaded and recovered well in the draft. Florida safety Matt Elam, Kansas State inside linebacker Arthur Brown and Ohio State outside linebacker John Simon are the right type of players to be respective replacements for free-agent departures Ed Reed, Dannell Ellerbe and Paul Kruger. The Ravens know their schemes, and thanks to general manager Ozzie Newsome, always seem to know the ideal personnel.
Indianapolis Colts: Sporting News executive of the year Ryan Grigson took care of the offensive skill players in '12, starting with Andrew Luck. This April was all about nuts and bolts, led by giving Chuck Pagano a top edge pass rusher (Florida State's Bjoern Werner) and promising nose tackle (Tennessee-Martin's Montori Hughes) made for his 3-4. On the not-as-sexy-but-still-effective front, they gave Luck two solid interior offensive linemen in Illinois guard Hugh Thornton and USC center Khaled Holmes.
Miami Dolphins: They didn't find their left tackle, either, whether drafting him or trading for Kansas City's Branden Albert. But the Dolphins get a break for how much they upgraded their pass defense. Moving up for Oregon defensive end Dion Jordan got them a daunting edge pass rusher to play off Cameron Wake. Speedy Boise State second-round corner Jamar Taylor can make big plays on the ball. Tennessee third-rounder Dallas Thomas can compete to start on the offensive line. Michigan State tight end Dion Sims and Florida running back Mike Gillislee are good complementary skill players.
St. Louis Rams: The Rams added more exciting receiving pop for Sam Bradford with the West Virginia duo of Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey, who are built to remain fine complementary playmakers on St. Louis’ fast indoor track. Jeff Fisher also got a speedy linebacker who can cover (Georgia's Alec Ogletree) and the slobberknocking safety (USC's T.J. McDonald) he covets. Alabama guard/center Barrett Jones was quite a steal in Round 4, but Vanderbilt running back Zac Stacy can be a bigger one in Round 5.
Grade: B
New York Giants: With GM Jerry Reese, the Giants tend to draft for beyond the current year, but they ended up with three strong, athletic linemen who can make an immediate impact. Offensively, Syracuse first-rounder Justin Pugh is too smooth not to win a job at guard or tackle in '13. Defensively, they got a needed run-stuffing tackle (Ohio State's Johnathan Hankins) and pass-rushing end to help replace Osi Umenyiora (Texas A&M's Damontre Moore). Also watch out for Richmond's Cooper Taylor, a big linebacker-like safety with the speed to develop into a big playmaker.
San Diego Chargers: The Chargers hit on their desperation for an offensive tackle with Alabama's D.J. Fluker in the first round, but their next two picks, Notre Dame linebacker Manti Te'o and California wide receiver Keenan Allen, are good fits with what they want to do in the Mike McCoy era. Playing next to rangy, big playmaker Donald Butler in their 3-4, there's less pressure on Te'o, who can focus on his strength as an instinctual upfield tackler. Some of what Allen will do should remind offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt of his best Cardinals wideouts.
New Orleans Saints: The Saints got their key components for Rob Ryan's new 3-4 defense, a terrific all-around safety with good blitzing pop (Texas' Kenny Vaccaro) and an ideal nose tackle (Georgia's John Jenkins). But this is the Saints, so we look to their offensive steals. They should feel good about turning athletic Arkansas-Pine Bluff Terron Armstead into a rock of a left tackle given their small-school history with linemen (see Jahri Evans, Jermon Bushrod). Oklahoma wide receiver Kenny Stills has the skills to thrive with Drew Brees, too.
Atlanta Falcons: The Falcons went in looking for more pass defense, and wasted no time in replacing Brent Grimes and Dunta Robinson at cornerback with Washington's Desmond Trufant and Southeastern Louisiana's Robert Alford with their first two picks. They also added a couple more options at end, Clemson's Malliciah Goodman and TCU's Stansly Maponga. With Tony Gonzalez coming back for one more season, they found an underrated Pac-12 tight end to groom behind him, Stanford's Levine Toilolo.
Detroit Lions: They weren't in position to get an elite left tackle, but otherwise, Martin Mayhew and Jim Schwartz hit on important areas. BYU first-rounder Ezekiel Ansah has freakish pass-rush potential, and later, they got more a polished complementary defensive end in South Carolina's Devin Taylor. They didn't forget their offensive line, as Kentucky guard Larry Warford can start to boost their running game. Mississippi State cornerback Darius Slay has the size and speed to start outside in coverage right away, too.
Grade: B-
New England Patriots: For not having a first-rounder, they had a decent haul in the No. 52-102 range. They needed to hit on outside receivers to better stretch the field for Tom Brady, and Marshall's speedy Aaron Dobson and TCU's physical Josh Boyce did the trick. After taking Chandler Jones last year, Bill Belcihick got another talented sack artist in Southern Miss' Jamie Collins. Belichick is in tune with Rutgers, but the Scarlet Knight secondary combination of Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon were reaches.
Carolina Panthers: The Panthers wasted no time in taking care of their greatest hole at defensive tackle, and did it twice. They can plug in Utah's Star Lotulelei and Purdue's Kawann Short as complementary impact players inside to help free up 2012 first-round linebacker Luke Kuechly—the reigning rookie of the year—to have a bigger second season inside. With only three other picks, however, they didn't get the extra receiver they could have used.
Seattle Seahawks: Having already taken care of their major immediate holes in free agency, the Seahawks could just take intriguing projects with all 11 picks, including two running backs, Texas A&M's Christine Michael and LSU's Spencer Ware. Elsewhere offensively, Kansas State's Chris Harper can develop into a good possession receiver. They did come away with needed defensive tackle depth (Penn State's Jordan Hill, Alabama's Jesse Williams).
MORE: Complete draft board | Trade tracker
Grade: C
Dallas Cowboys: They're down here because they didn't get either an offensive tackle or defensive lineman, and didn't get in on the run of top safeties. Wisconsin center Travis Frederick could have been had after Round 1, and although San Diego State tight end Gavin Escobar and Baylor wide receiver Terrance Williams have bright futures, it was a case of the Cowboys adding to what they already had. William and Mary slot corner B.W. Webb may end up helping them most in '13.
Buffalo Bills: The Bills were all about going back to the drawing board with their passing game. The centerpiece is Florida State quarterback EJ Manuel, but coach Doug Marrone and his staff have their work cut out to turn him into a polished, athletic passer. They also will try to get Manuel on the same page with the receivers they took for him, USC possession-type Robert Woods and Texas speedster Marquise Goodwin. Their best pick for the present was on defense, Oregon inside linebacker Kiko Alonso. Offensively, there's a lot of potential but more shaky unknown.
Chicago Bears: The Bears did go after needed offensive line help, but ended up with a couple of projects there, including their first-rounder, Oregon’s Kyle Long. Long, however, might need to start out inside as he's still growing as a tackle. Their fifth-rounder, Louisiana Tech's Jordan Mills, is closer to being able to aid them at the position. Florida second-rounder Jon Bostic, with his tacking ability and upfield instincts, is a textbook replacement for Brian Urlacher. Likewise, Rutgers' Khaseem Greene has the range and coverage skills to fight to replace Nick Roach on the strong side.
Grade: C-
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: The Buccaneers didn't have many pressing needs left, and took care of finding their No. 2 corner with Mississippi State second-rounder Johnthan Banks. Other than that, it was ho-hum between getting NC State's Mike Glennon to be a backup quarterback and Miami's Mike James to be a backup running back with a mix of questionable defensive linemen in between.
Kansas City Chiefs: They couldn't miss on can't-miss Central Michigan left tackle Eric Fisher first overall, but otherwise, what Andy Reid and John Dorsey did was underwhelming. Overrated Arkansas running back Knile Davis was a wasted third-rounder. It wasn't exactly a "worst to playoffs" weekend for the Chiefs.
Denver Broncos: They started with a bang, North Carolina defensive tackle Sylvester Williams, but the rest of their haul included plenty of reaches. Wisconsin's Montee Ball is a good runner, but he wasn't worthy of a second-rounder based on what they had. They also threw darts at South Florida cornerback Kavyon Webster and Western Kentucky defensive end Quanterus Smith. It's good they can win a Super Bowl with their established veteran core.
Oakland Raiders: So much for going after defensive line help for Dennis Allen after clearing the decks at end and tackle. That's a big knock, but the blow is softened by two talented cover men for their back seven, Houston cornerback D.J. Hayden and Connecticut outside linebacker Sio Moore. Then, in old Raiders fashion, they took a chance on a boom-or-bust raw athletic left tackle (Florida State's Menelik Watson) and a once high-rated QB (Arkansas' Tyler Wilson).
Tennessee Titans: Let's start with the good. The Titans kept up their interior offensive line upgrade theme, adding Alabama guard Chance Warmack and California center Brian Scwhenke to join free-agent addition Andy Levitre. But getting wide receiver Justin Hunter from Tennessee is a boom-bust proposition, and both Connecticut cornerback Blidi Wreh-Wilson and Missouri linebacker Zaviar Gooden need more polish to be impact players.
Grade: D
New York Jets: Their entire draft will ride on just how good West Virgnia's Geno Smith will be as their starting quarterback, and there's reason to believe the pairing will be quite bumpy. In essence, they swapped out Darrelle Revis for Alabama's Dee Milliner at cornerback, but wasted the No. 13 they got for Revis by taking Sheldon Richardson, a tackle better suited for the 4-3, not Rex Ryan's 3-4. It was a shaky start for John Idzik.
Washington Redskins: The Redskins knew this might happen after trading for Robert Griffin III—a weak class with no first-rounder. NC State's David Amerson is a huge coverage risk in Round 2, Florida tight end Jordan Reed had a big lack of production for Round 3. They'll hang it all on Fresno State's Phillip Thomas becoming a starting free safety for them.
Cleveland Browns: For a young team with multiple issues, it's odd the Browns worked their way down to just five picks. LSU first-rounder Barkevious Mingo is a high-risk, high-reward edge pass rusher for their 3-4. They needed a corner for the outside, yet took one, San Diego State's Leon McFadden, better suited for the slot. The biggest head-scratcher was the fact Cleveland officials, not all in on Brandon Weeden, didn't at least take a chance on one of the quarterback prospects after most of them slid.
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Legend
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Legend
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 at grading drafts one day after the draft is over.
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Legend
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Legend
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And I can post up A grades......big deal.
I like exactly where we are, and think Banner and crew did a fine job.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
...I'm sure the Steelers appreciate Banner's help as they got themselves a pretty good safety prospect (who runs a 4.44 and did 28 reps on the bench) with the Browns #111 pick ...Shamarko Thomas was the #4 ranked SS...in exchange, the Browns will pick up a few draft slots in 2014 with the Steelers 3rd round pick.
...what is odd, I thought safety was one of the positions the Browns needed to fill in this draft. Shamarko Thomas was the best available SS and the Browns could have drafted him instead of helping out our division rival, giving the Steelers our #111 pick.
...trying to figure this move our after the Steelers took a Thomas, my thought was, maybe the Safety position is not a priority for the Browns.
Next, the Browns trade away their 5 rounder to the Colts for their 4th rounder next year...I won't comment on that now.
....then with the Browns (#7 pick) in the 6th round, Banner and Lombardi, TAKE A SAFETY...a SS out of ND who is recuperating from a ruptured achilles, suffered in the 3rd game of last season. If we needed a SS in round 6...we sure as hell needed the SS the Steelers took with our #111 pick...why help the Steelers and hurt ourselves at the same time?
Free safety and strong safety aren't the same position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28American_and_Canadian_football_position%29
We have a starting SS in Ward. It's not a glaring need.
We needed a FS, which is the position we think Slaughter will play in the NFL if he gets the chance and progresses.
Thomas doesn't really translate as a FS in the NFL. Were we to draft him, he'd either sit behind or replace Ward, and we'd still have nothing at the FS position.
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Legend
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Hall of Famer
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jc
I loved these trades. This is the first time in a long time I had real confidence that there were smart and methodical people in charge of the Browns. Yeah you have to wait a year and you can go through all kinds of different scenarios but picking somewhere between 65-96 is better than picking 111. Sometimes it really is that simple.
Instead of just looking at only 2013, or only 2013 and 2014, try looking at the big picture... or at least 4-5 years.
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Dawg Talker
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My first take away from that is that I have no idea who the author is and if he is even qualified to wash a pro football teams jockstraps let alone grade a draft. Funny that he gave the Browns a D because we essentially traded a mid fourth and fifth for Devone Bess ,a third and a fourth round pick.
What is it that he is so high on Detroit for selecting a nine game starter( for BYU) in Ansah yet is down on the Browns for selecting Mingo.
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Mac, you are so far off base it isn't even funny anymore.
This front office has done a great job to this point, yet you and a few of the other trolls continue to pout and moan at everything they do.
I for one am tired of it.
Sorry but the truth is they haven't done anything to make this team better.
backup QB - worse.
TE - worse.
OL - no change
WR - no change
DL - over paided for an average DL - no change
LB - Kruger seems good. Mingo - good
DB - worse.
K - worse
KR - worse
so besides 2 linebackers over-all we are no better then last year. I assume we go 2 and 14 and pick first over-all. At best we win 4 games
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Legend
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Man, where is the crybaby smiley when you need one.  Draft grades are generally all over the place. Hell, Fox Sports alone gave us a B, a C-, and a B+. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/201...;photo=31720567CBS Sports (Prisco) gave us a C. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22160...-like-em-or-notRang gave us a C. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/22153257/2013-nfl-draft-afc-north-gradesWhat does it all mean? Nothing, other than one particular sportswriter's opinion. Every year there is a draft that is panned, that turns out OK, and another team's draft that they rave about, that winds up with a bust headliner.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I disagree Norm.
Colt sucked. Campbell is way better. Weeden is becasuse he beat out the Coltmeister.
You might be Mac.... but a troll for sure..
Go away.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Quote:
DL - over paided for an average DL
Ladies and gentlemen, the 43rd President of the United States, Mr. George W. Bush.
Mr. President, did Condi Rice turn you onto the Browns?
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Mac, you are so far off base it isn't even funny anymore.
This front office has done a great job to this point, yet you and a few of the other trolls continue to pout and moan at everything they do.
I for one am tired of it.
Sorry but the truth is they haven't done anything to make this team better.
backup QB - worse.
TE - worse.
OL - no change
WR - no change
DL - over paided for an average DL - no change
LB - Kruger seems good. Mingo - good
DB - worse.
K - worse
KR - worse
so besides 2 linebackers over-all we are no better then last year. I assume we go 2 and 14 and pick first over-all. At best we win 4 games
OK , seriously .......
Backup QB is much better having a QB like Campbell, who fits the offense, and has a better track record than our former backup.
TE: Who knows? Watson was a concussion waiting to happen last year. He had 3 of them last year alone. That's kind of scary. Other than that, we dropped Smith ..... and that was no major loss.
WR: We dropped Cribbs and Massaquoi. We added Nelson and Bess. This should be an upgrade on the receivers end of things. Cribbs has yet to sign anywhere. I think this is an upgrade. You see it as no change? Why? We added a receiver with 321 catches in 5 seasons, and another who had 61 catches 2 years ago, and had 31 last year while battling an injury. Given that these 2 players played in Miami and Buffalo, hardly bastions of exceptional QB play, makes their accomplishments even more impressive AFAIC.
DL: Bryant, average? Wow, you are losing credibility with this statement. Bryant will be a very good 3-4 DE for us. There is nothing average there. What do you see about him that you consider "average"?
DB: We dumped Young, and let Brown walk. Who else did we lose? We added Barnes, Owens, and drafted Slaughter. How is this worse? Please explain. I'm really curious.
K: Well, this is probably a downgrade. OK, you get this one.
KR: Who knows? Cribbs was great at one time, but he has been slowing down. Again, he has yet to be signed by anyone. Who knows if he will be?
We are switching to a new offense and defense. The offense should better suit the talent we have, and we have upgraded our front 7 in a big way. How, exactly, will we be worse?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Quote:
backup QB - worse.
TE - worse.
OL - no change
WR - no change
DL - over paided for an average DL - no change
LB - Kruger seems good. Mingo - good
DB - worse.
K - worse
KR - worse
Seriously? Must be a big McCoy fan.
Backup QB-Push
RB's- better (Dion Lewis gives Ob a run for 3rd down back)
WR- WAY Better! Not only is it an extra year for the young guys, I'd take Nelson over MoMass and smile. Throw in Bess as possibly the best slot guy we've had and this group becomes our best WR core in 14 years (14 very long years)
TE- Worse- No denying.
O-line- a slight plus from depth alone, though ultimately a push.
D-Line- Push. Seriously? Des Bryant for Frostee Rucker? Yes, please. But Sheard may now be out of position...push
Linebacker- ROFLMAO! Not even close. B-E-T-T-E-R. Even if Sheard doesn't work out here, I'd still take Groves and Mingo (and Bryant) over...an injured Gocong and a retired Fujita??
D-Backs- A bit better! We gained McFadden, Owens and possibly Barnes in the dime. We lost Sheldon Brown?? Osama Young was already outplayed by Tashaun Gibson, so for safety the addition of Slaughter was (though possibly a slight lose) closer to a push.
K- Worse! No sane man would argue that.
Returner- Worse, but only on kickoffs. Cribbs has been on the decline for the last couple seasons and I was anticipating Benjamin taking alot more punts this season regardless.
Sooo...
Clear improvement for LB's and WR's. A slight improvement for RB's and DB's. A push at O-line (only depth), D-line, and QB. And a lose at TE and special teams.
Does that honestly sound like a "downgrade" to you?
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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OP
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So, you are saying all the teams that picked on the 4th and 5th rounds have a wrong concept of value? That the Colts and Steelers both excellent drafters have it wrong and we have it right?
Regarding the question of this year draft being weak, I think the consensus was regarding the top of the draft, not the bottom. Actually if you take a look at draft grades this year, past the 2nd round they are similar to other years.
Its also a very bold claim, saying we cannot find a player worth of a 4th or 5th round pick this year. No valid prospects, no players with potential... Tyler Wilson, Webb, Khaseem, Patton, the FB from Harvard, Jesse Williams, Randle, etc etc etc
One year its very important on developmental picks, I'm sure if any would pan out they would be much more valuable then the picks next year.
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Quote:
I disagree Norm.
Colt sucked. Campbell is way better. Weeden is becasuse he beat out the Coltmeister.
You might be Mac.... but a troll for sure..
Go away.
Whatever Campbell sucks as best. He should have been out of the League except for the Oakland Raiders and now us... LOL. What a joke. So your pumped we got Campbell. LOL...
Our Only Hope is the FBI......
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
So, you are saying all the teams that picked on the 4th and 5th rounds have a wrong concept of value? That the Colts and Steelers both excellent drafters have it wrong and we have it right?
I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I'm simply saying that our guys didn't feel the value was there.
Now, in 4-5 years, if the guys we passed over become All-Pros, we were wrong.
If in 4-5 years the guys we passed over still aren't contributing and the guys we pick up in next years 3rd/4th are, then we had it right.
I don't know the answer, neither do you, neither does anyone else.
The panic about not drafting a guy in the 4th and 5th rounds on this board is just ridiculous.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
I disagree Norm.
Colt sucked. Campbell is way better. Weeden is becasuse he beat out the Coltmeister.
You might be Mac.... but a troll for sure..
Go away.
Whatever Campbell sucks as best. He should have been out of the League except for the Oakland Raiders and now us... LOL. What a joke. So your pumped we got Campbell. LOL...
Our Only Hope is the FBI......
Is Kendall Storm back??
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Quote:
Quote:
backup QB - worse.
TE - worse.
OL - no change
WR - no change
DL - over paided for an average DL - no change
LB - Kruger seems good. Mingo - good
DB - worse.
K - worse
KR - worse
Seriously? Must be a big McCoy fan.
Backup QB-Push
RB's- better (Dion Lewis gives Ob a run for 3rd down back)
WR- WAY Better! Not only is it an extra year for the young guys, I'd take Nelson over MoMass and smile. Throw in Bess as possibly the best slot guy we've had and this group becomes our best WR core in 14 years (14 very long years)
TE- Worse- No denying.
O-line- a slight plus from depth alone, though ultimately a push.
D-Line- Push. Seriously? Des Bryant for Frostee Rucker? Yes, please. But Sheard may now be out of position...push
Linebacker- ROFLMAO! Not even close. B-E-T-T-E-R. Even if Sheard doesn't work out here, I'd still take Groves and Mingo (and Bryant) over...an injured Gocong and a retired Fujita??
D-Backs- A bit better! We gained McFadden, Owens and possibly Barnes in the dime. We lost Sheldon Brown?? Osama Young was already outplayed by Tashaun Gibson, so for safety the addition of Slaughter was (though possibly a slight lose) closer to a push.
K- Worse! No sane man would argue that.
Returner- Worse, but only on kickoffs. Cribbs has been on the decline for the last couple seasons and I was anticipating Benjamin taking alot more punts this season regardless.
Sooo...
Clear improvement for LB's and WR's. A slight improvement for RB's and DB's. A push at O-line (only depth), D-line, and QB. And a lose at TE and special teams.
Does that honestly sound like a "downgrade" to you?
Yes, Honestly we are not a better Football Team today then we where at the end of last season...except for Mingo and Kruger... All others are a push at best if not worse... The only change we have to improve is from within from the players we have.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Yes, Honestly we are not a better Football Team today then we where at the end of last season...except for Mingo and Kruger...
So your current argument is that if you take away our biggest free-agent signing and our first round draft pick...
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Legend
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Legend
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It would be great if you guys don't quote his posts. If you quote them I end up reading them.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Jason Campbell career stats :
60.9% completion percentage. 190.67 yards per game. 76 TD's, 52 INT's (0.99TD and 0.68INT per game). 6.73 yards per attempt. 82.5 QB Rating.
Colt McCoy stats -
58.3% completion percentage. 182.83 yards per game. 21 TD's, 20 INT's (0.85 TD and 0.83 INT per game). 6.25 yards per attempt. 74.8 Quarterback Rating.
Just saying.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, Honestly we are not a better Football Team today then we where at the end of last season...except for Mingo and Kruger...
So your current argument is that if you take away our biggest free-agent signing and our first round draft pick...
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
This is the first time the Steelers have given away a future pick since the 1970s....there is something they must like about this player and we gave it to them on a silver platter. I don't like that one bit.
Gee, another agenda post from memphis. 
We fleeced the Steelers and you turn it around and make another ridiculous bash against the FO. Meanwhile, you never once criticized the previous regime. This was the worst draft class I have ever seen. Heck, even the top picks have question marks. I can't even remember the name of the first overall pick. A guy like Ansah goes top five. Jordon goes top five. Mingo top 10. I can't even remember most of the top picks. It was a putrid draft. We move out of the fourth and fifth rounds and move up a round in next years draft, which will be stronger. We screw the Squeelers and you complain!?!? GMAB!
Psssttttttt----I have a secret I will share w/you and mac. Heckert and Holmgren are gone and are not coming back.
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Hall of Famer
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I dont know vers. I liked Holmgren and Heckert and I also liked the idea of trading for an upgrade for next year. I dont like trading anything with the Steelers. I did absolutely love Banner's answer but I am still having a tough time swallowing the trade.
Banner's answer was basically that we saw an opportunity to screw a division rivalry and we took it.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
I dont know vers. I liked Holmgren and Heckert and I also liked the idea of trading for an upgrade for next year. I dont like trading anything with the Steelers. I did absolutely love Banner's answer but I am still having a tough time swallowing the trade.
Banner's answer was basically that we saw an opportunity to screw a division rivalry and we took it.
So, what is the big deal?
I like it myself.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Steelers and Colts Trade
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