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Browns release senior national scout The shakeup of the Browns’ scouting department has begun. According to three sources, the Browns have parted ways with Pat Roberts, the clubs’s senior national scout. ESPNCleveland’s Bruce Hooley broke the story Monday afternoon on Twitter, and then reported it on “The Hooligans” on 850 WKNR. Roberts had been with the Browns eight years, the last three as the team’s senior scout. Roberts was hired as a national scout by former General Manager Phil Savage in 2005. He survived three management regimes. Prior to joining the Browns, Roberts worked in various roles in the Chicago Bears scouting department. A source told Hooley that Roberts was told by the club not to attend the draft last weekend. Another source told ESPN Cleveland that “a handful of personnel people” also were told not to attend the draft. They are expected to be let go, also. ESPN Cleveland has not confirmed their names. An upheaval was not unexpected. A source told Hooley that the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft. Bob Welton, a college scout for nine years with the Browns, left the club before the draft to accept a position at the University of Tennessee. http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=17271
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Wow. I thought they'd wait until the supplemental draft and UDFA signings and cuts were over.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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Well you can't say they aren't sticking to their plan ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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No surprise. Just as Haslam and Banner wanted their own guys, Lombardi and Farmer want their own guys.
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY". 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Wow. I thought they'd wait until the supplemental draft and UDFA signings and cuts were over.
Contracts for scouts run draft to draft. There is no surprise here at all.
Pretty much May 1 to April 30th. This shouldn't be unexpected.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
Roberts, who was hired by Savage in 2005, served as senior national scout the past three seasons. He was also the Browns director of college scouting in 2009 after spending the previous four seasons as a national scout.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
LOL
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You do realize they got rid of him after the draft, right? OMG, you guys are comical w/all your hate for the FO. It's absurd. You really think we didn't take the 4th and 5th round picks because we didn't scout the players?  This move.......? Well, it will give all you regime haters more ammunition to blast the FO, but I could care less. This guy was here for how long? What's our record been since he has arrived? Do we have a franchise QB? Pffttttt......good riddance.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 04/29/13 08:36 PM.
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You really think we didn't take the 4th and 5th round picks because we didn't scout the players?
Lombardi had a brain freeze and couldn't remember names. Of course they were properly scouted (I would expect), but you as an ex-scout, don't find it "curious" that they were told not to attend the last pre-draft meeting?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I think I would see the writing on the wall. I would understand that they wanted me gone. I would be mad as heck. Very upset. It's the nature of the business. Lovie Smith got fired after winning 10 games this past year. Marty got fired after winning 14 in SD. He got fired after making the playoffs in Cleveland. Look, I get guys like you, Spirit, Memphis, and mac. You loved the previous regime. You hate the new regime. No one is making you stay and root for them. I had the same dilemma when The Big Show was here. I hated the guy. Thought he was a phony baloney. Thought he lied. Thought he was lazy, yet arrogant. I considered not following the Browns until he was gone. I couldn't quite pull it off. It's like I had some stupid sense of loyalty that I could never leave. Hated watching the games last year. I loved the Bye week. Didn't have to watch that trash. For my season tix, I saw all dud games after traveling 600 + miles ONE FREAKING WAY and spending a fortune. I contemplated saying heck w/the Browns until The Big Show was gone. I wish I would have. I could have taken a year or two off and actually enjoyed Sunday afternoons and then I could have jumped back on once his big fat butt was fired. The problem is that too many of us Browns fans are too loyal. We're more loyal than the anyone who works for the Browns. Heck, Al Learner assisted Model in moving the team. He ends up w/the team and we crown him as a hero. There are guys like mac praying that Junior takes the team back over---LMAO---the guy talked to the press through emails because he is so freaking weird. Yet, I stayed. Stupid me. However, you can leave anytime. No one is making you guys root for the Browns. If you really think they are that incompetent, slimy, and clueless, then quit following them. You are obviously bitter that the previous regime is gone. You rip the new guys every chance you get and you always defended the previous regime no matter what. Why stay if you hate them so much? Spare yourselves--and us--the misery. 
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Why stay if you hate them so much?
I stay because I care about the team on the field and the camraderie on this (and other) boards. The FO I don't have to like to enjoy watching a game. But we digress from the thread...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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No surprise. Just as Haslam and Banner wanted their own guys, Lombardi and Farmer want their own guys.
This isn't a big deal. Their contracts were about to end May 1st anyway. 
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You do realize they got rid of him after the draft, right?
OMG, you guys are comical w/all your hate for the FO. It's absurd. You really think we didn't take the 4th and 5th round picks because we didn't scout the players?
This move.......?
Well, it will give all you regime haters more ammunition to blast the FO, but I could care less. This guy was here for how long? What's our record been since he has arrived? Do we have a franchise QB? Pffttttt......good riddance.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts about it.
Any of us on this board which are unemployed? Now is your chance to put in an application and earn an extra dollar or two, even if it is just attending games at Div 2 and Div 3 schools. 
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
This might be the biggest reach I've ever seen on this board.
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What an enormous non-story.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Wow. I thought they'd wait until the supplemental draft and UDFA signings and cuts were over.
Contracts for scouts run draft to draft. There is no surprise here at all.
Pretty much May 1 to April 30th. This shouldn't be unexpected.
THIS
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#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
This might be the biggest reach I've ever seen on this board.
OK, Cap. Do you not think our "braintrust" making the picks would have been better positioned if the scouting staff was on hand for resource purposes? You're telling me that Banner/Lombardi were better off not having the scouting personnel on hand?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Hmmm...when this group of scouts worked for Holmgren/Heckert, the Browns had some of the best drafts since returning to the NFL in 1999...
...but the new boys, Banner/Lombardi managed to put together one of the worst drafts in recent history.
Can't blame the scouts...boys.
Last edited by mac; 04/30/13 07:25 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
This might be the biggest reach I've ever seen on this board.
OK, Cap. Do you not think our "braintrust" making the picks would have been better positioned if the scouting staff was on hand for resource purposes? You're telling me that Banner/Lombardi were better off not having the scouting personnel on hand?
Once the board is set, what purpose would having the scouting personnel on hand serve?
Once players are ranked up and down, and side by side, what is the scouting department going to tell them? If the team has players ranked by ability and positional need, there really isn't any reason to have the scouts on site. Their work has already been done. What more are they expected to do at that point? What purpose would they serve?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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...were told not to attend the draft.... the Browns’ scouts were not permitted to participate in the team’s last round of meetings leading up to the draft.
This is just assinine! No wonder we didn't make selections in the 4th and 5th rounds this year...there was no proper background. "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
This might be the biggest reach I've ever seen on this board.
OK, Cap. Do you not think our "braintrust" making the picks would have been better positioned if the scouting staff was on hand for resource purposes? You're telling me that Banner/Lombardi were better off not having the scouting personnel on hand?
I would hope that by the time we were on the clock all of the scouting was done, and the team's board was in place.
Just curious, how many teams are you aware of that have their scouting department sitting at the table or on call during the draft? I would be surprised if any do.
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Hmmm...when this group of scouts worked for Holmgren/Heckert, the Browns had some of the best drafts they since returning to the NFL in 1999...
LOL......that is why they were 14 and 34 in their time here. You guys act like we improved a lot, like teams such as Seattle, SF, and Washington who were right there w/us 3-4 years ago. They got better. We didn't improve by even a single game in their 3 years here.
Yeah, great drafting. 
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Yeah, great drafting.
The (little) action and words of Banner himself, you know, the guy you've already built a shrine for, suggest the opposite of what you just "argued".
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Expected? Yes
Good? No
That's a huge assumption, DJ. For all we know at this point, the new scouting staff will be better evaluators. We can't assume it's a bad move just because they made the move. After all, they weren't necessarily that impressive under Savage or Mangini.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Banner/Lombardi managed to put together one of the worst drafts in recent history.
This is also a huge assumption, we don't know anything about this draft, only that whiners and moaners don't like it. Not exactly useful criteria.
You must not be a true fan, mac, not supporting the FO and all. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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My bad, I thought they fired Spytek too, who's draft team I think highly of....just "some" scouts? Strange....Banner should be familiar with Spytek from their time together in Philly. I don't think it will take long until he's fired too, but Banner has already surprised me, so who knows
#gmstrong
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I think there is some talent here. I have NEVER said that Heckert was terrible. I just think that you guys way overrate him.
I remember posters going off in their mocking of what Seattle was doing. They were right there w/us when both teams made new hires a few years ago. Well, look at where both franchises are now. I actually think SF and Seattle are the two strongest teams in the ENTIRE NFL. It's pretty crazy that they are in the same division.
Banner? I haven't built a shrine. I love the fact that he is a smart guy who works his butt off and lives his life like he always has something to prove. That's a great combination. He gives me hope for the Browns. Whether or not he will succeed, I can't say. We'll see.
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Hmmm...when this group of scouts worked for Holmgren/Heckert, the Browns had some of the best drafts they since returning to the NFL in 1999...
LOL......that is why they were 14 and 34 in their time here. You guys act like we improved a lot, like teams such as Seattle, SF, and Washington who were right there w/us 3-4 years ago. They got better. We didn't improve by even a single game in their 3 years here.
Yeah, great drafting.
vers...the Browns, under Holmgren and Heckert, started rebuilding their roster via the draft in 2010 and explained that the rebuild would take 5 yrs. They only completed 60% of that rebuild before Banner took over the team.
Not many NFL teams even attempt to rebuild their roster via the draft these days, because they know the team is going to lose for at least 3 seasons. But the roster that Holmgren and Heckert inherited in 2010 was dominated by under performing and overpaid free agents...who Mangini just loved. Over 50% of the Browns roster was a player drafted by another team..not the Browns.
Those fans like you, who expected instant winning, don't know much about doing a complete rebuild, via the draft.
The best example I have been able to find...a franchise that experienced many of the same issues the Browns had since returning in 99....the 1969 Steelers.
The Steelers were losers most of their first 33 years, making the playoffs only once. Under Art Rooney, there were few winning seasons and many, many changes at headcoach..every 2 or 3 yrs, a new HC....sound familiar?
The Steeler roster at the time they started their rebuild, via the draft, was dominated by free agent players, drafted by other teams and signed by the Steelers. The Steelers had already endured 5 losing seasons when their franchise made a major commitment to rebuild the team, via the draft, in 1969.
In the first 3 years of the Steelers rebuild, the team won only 12 games...losing 30 games...very near what the Browns record has been since we started our rebuild in 2010.
But, after 3 seasons and 4 draft cycles, the Steelers turned the corner and became a winning franchise.
The Browns now find themselves in the same situation...after 3 seasons and 4 draft cycles, we will find out if the Browns begin to turn the corner. We must recognize the fact that management and the coaching staff changed this season. CHANGE, is the enemy of a football team that is rebuilding and trying to establish continuity over the long term.the new management and coaching staff.
If the new management and coaching staff stick to script, making good draft choices and do a good job of coaching/teaching the young talent...it will pay dividends over the long term.
If management breaks from the script, going back to building the team around the free agent market...well, we have been down that road and it does not work.
The Browns were 14-34 after 3 yrs rebuilding via the draft...
The Steelers were 12-30 after 3 yrs rebuilding via the draft...
The fact is, teams doing a complete tear down and committing to rebuild their team via the draft, do not win much in their first 3 seasons. Those of you complaining that the Browns didn't win under Holmgren/Heckert, didn't realize what rebuilding the Browns roster via the draft entailed.
Now it's up to the new management team and coaching staff to make this work...sticking with the plan.
Also, the plan the Browns started in 2010 is not a short term fix, meant to produce a couple of winning seasons. It is a long term fix that endures the test of time...setting a franchise up to be a winners over the long term, decade after decade.
As for the other teams you mention...no comparison because their rosters were not void of talent like the Browns were...when these teams began to rebuild their rosters via free agency and the draft.
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Banner should be familiar with Spytek from their time together in Philly. I don't think it will take long until he's fired too, but Banner has already surprised me, so who knows
He's gotta be familiar with Sandusky too, and it wouldn't shock me to see them both stay. As far as the scouts go, with Shiner and Kovash on board they likely want scouts steeped in the analytics system. Probably looking for guys coming out of SF, Dallas, Philly, New England, etc.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Look, I get guys like you, Spirit, Memphis, and mac. You loved the previous regime. You hate the new regime. No one is making you stay and root for them. I had the same dilemma when The Big Show was here. I hated the guy. Thought he was a phony baloney. Thought he lied. Thought he was lazy, yet arrogant.
Stop posting this garbage and telling me what I like or don't like.
I liked Heckert. Didn't like Holmgren or Shurmur. I like Haslam and Banner. Don't like Lombardi.
Why do you continue saying this childish nonsense? Grow up.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Wow. I thought they'd wait until the supplemental draft and UDFA signings and cuts were over.
I don't think this is unusual timing at all, I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that scouting staff contracts run from May 1st to April 30th each year.
Maybe that's why he's gone now.
Or maybe he's gone because he vocally opposed the direction Banner and Lombardi were taking.. Dunno
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Wow. I thought they'd wait until the supplemental draft and UDFA signings and cuts were over.
I don't think this is unusual timing at all, I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that scouting staff contracts run from May 1st to April 30th each year.
Maybe that's why he's gone now.
Or maybe he's gone because he vocally opposed the direction Banner and Lombardi were taking.. Dunno
Or maybe because he was better at scouting for the WCO and 4-3 defense ... neither of which we use anymore?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Or maybe because he was better at scouting for the WCO and 4-3 defense ... neither of which we use anymore?
Doubt that was the issue, he was here under both Savage & Mangini. Likely has more to do with wanting guys familiar with analytics, and who come from the SF, Philly, New England and Dallas scouting trees. That's my logic anyway, FWIW.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Maybe I don't know enough about it (I probably don't), but if these scouts were never the guys they wanted, why did they not just bring Lombardi in sooner instead of floating the rumor around for so long, so that he could then hire them while the season was going on?
They hired Lombardi in what, January? They absolutely had to use the scouts who were here, after they put in all that work for the April draft.
I totally understand that the contracts weren't up until this week, but when has that ever stopped this organization or any other?
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Those guys are under contract until after the draft sometime. Not sure of the date. But the thing is, all the work they have done up to that point, goes away with them if you fire them in January when Lombardi was hired. And most likely, the guys that Banner and Lombardi would want to hire are employed elsewhere and under contract until this time of year anyway so we couldn't get them in January (unless they were unemployed that is)
So basically, the new regime is stuck with the guys that the former regime put in place until after the draft.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Those guys are under contract until after the draft sometime. Not sure of the date. But the thing is, all the work they have done up to that point, goes away with them if you fire them in January when Lombardi was hired. And most likely, the guys that Banner and Lombardi would want to hire are employed elsewhere and under contract until this time of year anyway so we couldn't get them in January (unless they were unemployed that is)
So basically, the new regime is stuck with the guys that the former regime put in place until after the draft.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It seems like Banner had Lombardi in mind the entire time, and if that was the case, they should have brought him in immediately.
However, you're right, that maybe the scouts they do want are with other teams. If that's the case, then it makes total sense.
I bet that plays into why they flipped a few picks into 2014 picks.
I think the most shocking thing is that a lot of our scouts have been in place for what, 8 years? That surprises me the most considering the amount of regime changes we've been forced to witness.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Besides their contracts, they've been scouting all year. They were best suited to help build the big board and get them to the draft.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
No New Regime that I know of ever came in n Fired the Scouts before the draft...even if they came late January. Just not done. Some times a right hand man is brought in after the GM is hired...we did this btw by hiring Farmer did we not?
Actually this is not news...we were told a lot about this when it broke out that the majority of the scouts were not invited to the last draft meeting finalizing the Boards. Contracts for this portion of the FO fiscally begin May 1st.
We actually did a class thing by letting go who we were letting go (note we kept some scouts) so they could get some jobs...as was noted some already did.
Not having them in the final discussions n board meant little. I see no evidence that we were unprepared. I don't specifically like the guy (but he can turn me around easily) but nobody works harder than Lombardi on this - He was prepared with info!
Again....nobody fires the scouts after they are hired in Jan. Feb. for a new Regime. Possibly replace a head guy for a new head personnel guy - that is almost always done. But the Foundation of scouts don't turn over till after the draft. Again that is when other scouts contracts are up...etc.
JMHO - this was expected n basically announced a couple of weeks ago.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
The best example I have been able to find...a franchise that experienced many of the same issues the Browns had since returning in 99....the 1969 Steelers.
Clearly the most applicable comparison.
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