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"My thoughts on the QB situation are these: If we go into the season with Campbell as the best option at QB we are in trouble. By this I mean that if Weeden cannot beat out what amounts to an average journeyman QB then we really have no QB at all. "
True statement.
I hope Weeden proves me wrong. However, so far he is what I thought was.
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"Expectations"?
Defensively - the Browns have made a large investment. It should pay off. They have a lot of depth along the front seven.
Mingo was not my pick of choice. Hopefully, he will prove worthy of being selected as the sixth pick in the draft.
Offensively - My expectations for Weeden are not very high. He should improve. It is his second year. I am not buying into how he "fits" in the Norv offense. I just hope he learns how to throw the ball accurately to the right person at the right time. I have my doubts.
Overall the offense should be better.
No idea how it will all translate into wins. In the end the Browns will be back to square one. Finding a quarterback.
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Legend
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I expect to win the SuperBowl. I do every year because anything less then a SuperBowl win is a failed season.
I feel bad when we lose 10-12 games. The funny thing is that I feel worse when we lose the AFC Championship game, so the only way I'll feel good at the end of a season is to win it all.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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I am with you man.
But as the program says:
Sometimes you have to: "Curb Your Enthusiasm".
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I just want to be competitive.
I want to see progress this year followed by more the next year and on and on.
I want to be in the playoff conversation every year. with a superbowl trip from time to time.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Legend
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I really expect us to push for a playoff spot ... it all depends on how we start, a fast start will give this young team alot of momentum ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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My expectations are: Move the ball, move the chains and start resembling something that looks like there is hope of scoring more than 13 points a week. Actually, 7 wins is what I expect.
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When I read or watch one "expert" say that we over paid for second string players I can discount that as one man's opinion. When I hear or read it from two sources, I think twice. But, when I keep hearing or reading it over and over from guru's all over the place, I tend to believe that we screwed the pooch in free agency and botched the draft again. Once again we are back to second guessing F.O. decisions. And I've heard, "But maybe a different environment....blah blah blah.." or "He wasn't used right in the scheme of the previous club....blah blah blah..." Or one of my favorites things to read about draft picks, "Raw but talented player." Oh boy. Going to take three or four years to teach this guy to play in the NFL. And this entire board is correct. We did nothing for our offense. Gordon is a good pick if you have someone to throw to him. We have a bunch of good blocking tight ends. We do have Richardson and hope he is healthy and stays healthy. And of course we still have that lame Montario Hardleyworthetsy. I'm not going to kid myself into believing this will be a .500 season. Heck, I'm not even going to expect a .250 season. Defense might win us a couple of games. But we sure are going to miss our top scorer. sigh. 
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Legend
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jc...
Given the overwhelming opinion of the new offensive and defensive coaching staffs, plus the offensive and defensive talent returning and added, I see no reason to lower my expectations.
My expectations will remain the same...
By all reports, Chud is a better teacher of offense than the guy he is replacing, therefore it is hard to see the coaching change as a negative. Especially when we consider the help Chud is going to get from Norv Turner on the offensive side.
Those complaining that we didn't do anything to help on the offensive side of the ball...WR Devone Bess was added. The offensive needs were addressed by Heckert in the 2012 draft, with 4 offensive starters added last year. Those guys now have a years experience and should be better in their second year, especially if the team added a better offensive coaching staff...better teachers.
With better coaching and a year of experience for the young offensive unit, I expect to see a better performing offense than the 2012 unit. It might take a few games to gel, but I expect the offense to produce more points than the 2012 unit.
On the defensive side, the Browns have made a huge investment in talent for the defensive coach, Ray Horton. Free agency focused on the defensive needs of Horton's new 3-4 scheme as did the Browns draft, spending the #6 pick on a pass rusher and adding a CB and safety via the draft.
The opinion of most seems to be that Horton's defensive coaching skills are superior to Dick Jauron's and the front office made a huge investment in defensive personnel to help Horton's 3-4 defense succeed.
If Horton is as advertised...and with the talent he has to work with, Horton should be able to produce a better defense than the 2012 defensive unit.
Folks need to realize just how close the 2012 team was to a 8 win season. They lost to the Eagles by 1 point, the Colts by 4 point and to the Cowboys by 3 points in overtime.
Chud inherits a young team that won 5 games in 2012 and he and his offensive and defensive coaching staffs should be able turn those 3 narrow defeats into 3 victories...finishing with an 8-8 record for 2013.
My expectations for the 4th year of the 5 yr rebuilding plan, even before the coaching changes, was somewhere within a game of an 8-8 record. If the new coaching staff only does as well as the previous coaching staff, they should be able to produce an .500 record.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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For possibly the first time ever, I agree with Mac. I think we are and will be quite a bit better than last season.
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Quote:
When I read or watch one "expert" say that we over paid for second string players I can discount that as one man's opinion. When I hear or read it from two sources, I think twice. But, when I keep hearing or reading it over and over from guru's all over the place
You do? When n where. When we made our FA signings we were praised by just about ALL THE BOZOS n TALKING HEADS. Oh cause the praise stopped n shifted over to Ozzie has he got an unexpected find in Dummerville? All of a sudden the buzz on what we did was never heard of again. The fact that some Bozos were stating we should have spent MORE (not that what we did spend was bad) n of course OVER SPEND in doing so means nothing except that we did not give them enough NEWS to talk about.
I don't see this big negative on what we signed. I saw negatives spouted by the Bozos regarding the fact we didn't sign like 5-7 guys that on paper would start - So they might not be cohesive on the field...ON PAPER n in MADDEN its would be good. Yeah that's the ticket. Then of course the draft. How dare we trade 4th n 5th round picks of a weak 2013 draft class for a supposedly stronger 2014 class. Of course if we were the Pats we would be hearing the words "Brilliant" being used by the biased Bozos.
Banner/Lombardi told us from the get go we were probably going to sign around 2 impact players we wanted to pace ourselves with FA not spending all this year we would as also next year. I believe the thought process was to have some ebb n flow of FA coming n going. We stuck to the plan n stayed discipline with it. So the Bozos don't run the show...there are reasons why they are bozos.
But I really don't remember a universal negative charge that we over spent on our FA signings...basically Kruger n Bryant...Actually when made we were praised...how does it become bad?
JMHRecollection of what just happened a couple of months ago
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
The opinion of most seems to be that Horton's defensive coaching skills are superior to Dick Jauron's and the front office made a huge investment in defensive personnel to help Horton's 3-4 defense succeed.
"Opinion of most"? I disagree. I don't think "most" entertain Horton's coaching skills are superior to Jauron. In fact, I'd argue both are equally talented in their schemes. It might be more prefer an attacking defense over a read-react style.
Regardless who ran the FO huge defensive investment was needed. If Jauron was still the DC, stronger secondary and pass rusher would have been priority. In Horton's 3-4 schemes, linebackers and pass rusher is priority. Stronger depth is needed across the board.
Last year it was obvious a bigger push needed on offense. It became obvious after last season defensive side needed a lift. Looking at the two draft years it made sense on the direction. On paper, it appears now both sides of the ball are balanced as far as draft round level. Talent is still needed, but I believe keeping talent quality balanced provides stability over the long run.
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Legend
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Yeah, Jauron is a quality coach. He wasn't my choice for the DC job, mainly because he preferred smaller, faster defenses over players who could hold up to the pounding theu would take in the AFCN, but he did a solid job while in Cleveland. I have always been a 3-4 guy, and I love an attacking defense. Plus, even though we may give up some big plays as a result of all of that attacking, I think that we will create more turnovers and negative plays against the offense that will help us more than it hurts us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah I'm with you Bugs...I didn't get that perception at all with posters.
I think Jauron was an excellent coach n got decent execution from his Defensive scheme.
I do think Hortons Defense (my personal favorite if I was the guy in charge  ) but not about me...I truly think Horton's D is more Applicable to the Offenses that we are seeing around the league. Offenses are going Wide open a lot of spread not much Smash Mouth football. If offenses are going to put max WRs out there n eliminate their FB n RB who are not sound in blocking but are more pass catchers. QBs Running the Pistol - sitting back in READ n REACT is ARCHAIC they will tear you apart. Got to Attack these offenses. Got to HIT these QBs Often n hard (within the rules) but pound them never the less!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I do think Hortons Defense (my personal favorite if I was the guy in charge ) but not about me...I truly think Horton's D is more Applicable to the Offenses that we are seeing around the league. Offenses are going Wide open a lot of spread not much Smash Mouth football. If offenses are going to put max WRs out there n eliminate their FB n RB who are not sound in blocking but are more pass catchers. QBs Running the Pistol - sitting back in READ n REACT is ARCHAIC they will tear you apart. Got to Attack these offenses. Got to HIT these QBs Often n hard (within the rules) but pound them never the less!
You and me both. I'm a big fan of the 3-4 attack scheme. Closest thing we had was Rob's ameba defense. It was exciting to watch. QB's had to think. Last year Jauron did an excellent job. Considering his forte are DB's. He really had to scheme disguising major secondary weaknesses and all that without a pass rusher. After last season, Jauron earned my respect one hell-heva DC!
I can care less what people say Rob and Dick get gold stars. Both did an outstanding job considering the talent. I'll venture to say there isn't a DC in the league who can take garbage and make it respectable. Horton's will need to earn his stripes, and I really do like Horton. Given he will have two pass rushers, two more than the Browns have had in the last 13 years, I have high expectations!
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Noone ever highlights the players and coaches who leave during an offseason. There is no continued reference to the departure of Alex Smith, and Ben Watson from the tight ends, or Massaquoi and Cribbs from the wideouts.
I don't think Juron, or Childress were doing a bad job, and they would be returning at least, ( not first year), and would have that year+ familiarity with the veteran players on the team.
Frostee Rucker, and Juqua Parker, weren't terrible holes needing fixed, and they won't be back, there will be new veteran players in their place.
There will be a whole lot of new, and in the past that has meant low results.
This time, we just don't know, we'll have to wait and see.
In the end, they just need to get it right, and then decide to stick with some group, any group, and let that group develop, to really move forward and be a better team.
I don't know how this can be considered year 2, or 3 of a multi year plan, this has to be year 1 again, (or 1 and a half), because of all the new people in charge, from the top, to the middle, all the way to the roster.
We'll see what happens, the 3 division opponents don't have quite this much turnover, advantage them.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
Noone ever highlights the players and coaches who leave during an offseason. There is no continued reference to the departure of Alex Smith, and Ben Watson from the tight ends, or Massaquoi and Cribbs from the wideouts.
I don't think Juron, or Childress were doing a bad job, and they would be returning at least, ( not first year), and would have that year+ familiarity with the veteran players on the team.
Frostee Rucker, and Juqua Parker, weren't terrible holes needing fixed, and they won't be back, there will be new veteran players in their place.
There will be a whole lot of new, and in the past that has meant low results.
This time, we just don't know, we'll have to wait and see.
In the end, they just need to get it right, and then decide to stick with some group, any group, and let that group develop, to really move forward and be a better team.
I don't know how this can be considered year 2, or 3 of a multi year plan, this has to be year 1 again, (or 1 and a half), because of all the new people in charge, from the top, to the middle, all the way to the roster.
We'll see what happens, the 3 division opponents don't have quite this much turnover, advantage them.
Very well said. Thank you.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Quote:
Quote:
When I read or watch one "expert" say that we over paid for second string players I can discount that as one man's opinion. When I hear or read it from two sources, I think twice. But, when I keep hearing or reading it over and over from guru's all over the place
You do? When n where. When we made our FA signings we were praised by just about ALL THE BOZOS n TALKING HEADS. Oh cause the praise stopped n shifted over to Ozzie has he got an unexpected find in Dummerville? All of a sudden the buzz on what we did was never heard of again. The fact that some Bozos were stating we should have spent MORE (not that what we did spend was bad) n of course OVER SPEND in doing so means nothing except that we did not give them enough NEWS to talk about.
I don't see this big negative on what we signed. I saw negatives spouted by the Bozos regarding the fact we didn't sign like 5-7 guys that on paper would start - So they might not be cohesive on the field...ON PAPER n in MADDEN its would be good. Yeah that's the ticket. Then of course the draft. How dare we trade 4th n 5th round picks of a weak 2013 draft class for a supposedly stronger 2014 class. Of course if we were the Pats we would be hearing the words "Brilliant" being used by the biased Bozos.
Banner/Lombardi told us from the get go we were probably going to sign around 2 impact players we wanted to pace ourselves with FA not spending all this year we would as also next year. I believe the thought process was to have some ebb n flow of FA coming n going. We stuck to the plan n stayed discipline with it. So the Bozos don't run the show...there are reasons why they are bozos.
But I really don't remember a universal negative charge that we over spent on our FA signings...basically Kruger n Bryant...Actually when made we were praised...how does it become bad?
JMHRecollection of what just happened a couple of months ago
Funny thing. If all you watch is FOXNEWS then the Democrats are socialists robbing the rich and giving away our freedoms. If all you watch is MSNBC, then Republicans are money hoarding bazillionaires bent on sending more people into poverty and misery.
My point? If you read nothing but positive columnists, or historically positive periodicals, websites ect concerning the Cleveland Browns you will inevitably think that the F.O. walks on water. If you read nothing but negative then you'll be ready to burn the Brown and Orange gear and move on. However, if you read a well balanced mix, you'll find out the truth. And the truth is, more of the pundits are saying negative things than good about our roster moves.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Quote:
"Opinion of most"?
bugs...The entire quote was ..."The opinion of most seems to be"...
It is "my opinion" and it is based on the majority of posts on the board, overwhelmingly in favor of the switch at DC...bringing in Ray Horton to replace Dick Jauron.
I believe this was before you joined the board, wasn't it?
There may have been a few that didn't like the move, but...as I said...the opinion of most seemed to be that hiring Horton was an upgrade at DC.
As for the huge investment on the defensive side...more was needed due to the fact that every player Heckert drafted on the defensive side, was drafted to play the 4-3 defense.
I agree that the 2012 draft focused on the offensive side and the 2013 draft was going to focus on the defensive needs, regardless of the defense played...with the focus most likely on LB and CB if the 4-3 defense was played.
Switching to the 3-4 required more investment at outside LB.
Back to the subject of the thread...my expectation are not going to be lowered...but will remain the same. I expect the 2013 record to be within a game, either way, of .500 record. Anything less will be disappointing...
Last edited by mac; 05/11/13 07:30 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Mac, at least we agree on expectations. I can't see why this team can't get at least 7 wins.
I guess we'll find out later when final roster is made, but I don't believe Heckert made strictly 4-3 decisions. B/L released two Frosty and Parker and picked up two Kruger and Groves. Otherwise, roster looks the same. One player in questions is Sheard, and I think he can work either scheme. Technically Bryant (DL) helps either system. In my opinion, he is the prize in this years FA.
Regardless of systems Browns needed a pass rusher DE or OLB. As we both agree, Heckert needed DB's for Jauron and B/L needed LB's for Horton.
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