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j/c
So, there's a lot of talk about what might happen and when...
but what is the actual, concrete right or freedom that is so impinged that you'd be willing to risk your life or kill others to hope to improve?
As has been stated by a couple of us, I don't see a rise of the people against the government, but a gradual rise of "have-nots" trying to take from the "haves", which grows beyond government control, and "regions" are forced to take control themselves, which leads to division of the union.
I doubt someone has the charisma to build enough following for people to just rise against the government in military effort until the majority are having to feed and fend for themselves and daily life as we know it ceases to exist. As long as we can still buy food at the grocery stores, go fishing at the lake, hunting in the woods, football games, baseball, etc. There is a little chance we can get enough support for a rebellion.
Empty grocery stores, fear of going outside after dark. common place muggings and robbings and break ins, will then lead to a society a state of marshall law.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Personally, I'm not ever going to take up arms against my fellow Americans.. Are you saying that if I disagree with your beliefs that you would shoot me?
Even if there were people trying to steal what food and supplies you had and the stores were empty?
It seems like there are 2 different discussions going on. People vs Govt and People Vs People.
I believe the People vs People has already started, just most middle class people dont see. Im certainly not suggesting that we are at war, but if you think there arent people out there willing to hurt you just to take what you have and they want you are wrong.
Yeah, there are two different discussions going on.. People Vs Govt: No way it works. Not as an armed revolt. no way..
People Vs People: I hope it never works. as for it already having started,, the haves and have nots were essentially created by the govt. Some will tell you that the have nots are lazy good for nothing and that's not at all 100% an absolute. Have we created a group that is on the public dole and may never come off it,, Yes we have. But WE (as in the govt and those we elected) created it. It can be fixed, we just need people in office to stop pandering to one group over another.
Until our leaders begin to work together for the common good, this situation will be debated.
But as for an armed revolt,, not gonna work out well for those that revolt..
As for no food, I won't be alone but if I have food, you will always be welcome at my home,, I'll share because you are an American, like me.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Threads like these are fun if for no other reason than to explore the what ifs but the reality is IMO something so far removed from this discussion that it is laughable . The machine that is our government is a well oiled beast that simply would not allow these senarios that some have painted to ever happen , barring some global event .
We all are too dependent on everything from grocery stores to cable T.V. to computers ...the list is endless . Shut off the power , water and other creture comforts and it won't be long until your " revolution " fizzles out . It is one thing to talk about but it is a real different event once theboots hit the ground .
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In the sixties, the radicals were on the left.
Today they are on the right.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I have no time for such lunacy.... or those who foster the ideas.
We are much better than this.
Just to give you a historical perspective, this is about the same number that existed at the time of the American Revolution at the founding of the country. Simply something to consider because it won't take much more to reach the same point.
Are we softer than those of the time when we threw off the bounds of tyranny from an oppressive king? I'm not so certain of this, considering the volume of gun and ammo purchases in recent years.
I'm not saying anything will happen (although I think that eventually it will) but that everyone should make sure they are prepared if it does.
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I have a mortgage through a bank the government took over. My child attends government funded schools with a curriculum determined by the government. I watch the Browns over the FCC controlled airwaves. I think government is more than half the equation. They've permeated about every facet of our lives. The lack of independence and freedom we actually have is striking.
Good luck trying to convince those that choose to be uninformed of what the reality is.
They could convince themselves that the government has the constitutional authority to control whether you breathe or not without you ever committing a grave crime.
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That's where the tipping point is, and I, and probably most, believe it would not be long into a conflict that the majority of enlisted men and women would choose the citizen side, as that is their families, friends. If your boss told you to go home and kill your family, your going to quit your job.
In the military, at some point, the enlisted soldiers would turn on their officers giving such orders.
It could very well turn into a civil war as well as a revolutionary one.
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29 percent of registered voters have been reading way too much Ayn Rand.
Rand did not advocate armed rebellion.
Dude (or dudette?), you're a caricature of yourself.
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We have half the country paying taxes to support the other half that wants more benefits. Our government is only listening to the 'I want more' crowd. It looks like we have huge problems in our country right now. Long gone are the days of, 'Ask not what your country can do for you'.
Our government can have a total change of elected people in just 6 short years. We have to get the professional politicians out of office, as corruption is rife within their group. If we don't, the country will collapse, and the revolution will be upon us, if we want it or not.
Well, I'm beyond the point of caring what the folks in DC or Albany (I'm in NY state) do. I couldn't care what laws they pass. No weapons I own now or ever will own in the future shall ever be registered with a state or federal government authority.
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Threads like these are fun if for no other reason than to explore the what ifs but the reality is IMO something so far removed from this discussion that it is laughable . The machine that is our government is a well oiled beast that simply would not allow these senarios that some have painted to ever happen , barring some global event .
We all are too dependent on everything from grocery stores to cable T.V. to computers ...the list is endless . Shut off the power , water and other creture comforts and it won't be long until your " revolution " fizzles out . It is one thing to talk about but it is a real different event once theboots hit the ground .
You seem to be of the view that the federal government is in full control of events. Like North Korea.
I've got news for you, they aren't. And that's the good news.
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Threads like this make me more and more convinced in the movie Idiocracy.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Is Baruch Spinoza a philosopher?
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....oh, and speaking of caricatures -- you starting this thread?....yeah.
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Back to the subject at hand .... A minority of 29% is a rather disturbing number to me .. What if it jumped to 33% ? That would be a 1/3 rd of Americans !!.. Not healthy .
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Back to the subject at hand .... A minority of 29% is a rather disturbing number to me .. What if it jumped to 33% ? That would be a 1/3 rd of Americans !!.. Not healthy .
I don't like that it got to 29 but I understand it. It's frustration with the Govt. And not just this administration either. This has been spinning up for a long while and is sort of reaching the boiling point.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Is Baruch Spinoza a philosopher?
I laugh at you.
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Back to the subject at hand .... A minority of 29% is a rather disturbing number to me .. What if it jumped to 33% ? That would be a 1/3 rd of Americans !!.. Not healthy .
Don't bother Mantis. He or she can't look past an unhealthy concoction of mixing philosophy and theology.
I hope for Mantis' sake, they have something to protect themselves when the crap hits the fan. And I'm not recommending that they try to talk about whether some altruist's philosophy is going to protect them or if some government law against something has the force of reality.
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Back to the subject at hand .... A minority of 29% is a rather disturbing number to me .. What if it jumped to 33% ? That would be a 1/3 rd of Americans !!.. Not healthy .
I don't like that it got to 29 but I understand it. It's frustration with the Govt. And not just this administration either. This has been spinning up for a long while and is sort of reaching the boiling point.
You're right. It isn't just this administration. I think it has been an accumulation of injustices that as gotten us to this point and with each and every bad move and misdeed against the people, it will only get worse.
The implementation of Obamacare has been called (by Democrats that voted for it) as a train wreck. They will still try to forcibly implement it and it will not go over well. The majority of people were against it's passage. It was forced upon us and it's proving to be difficult (if not impossible) to implement. TARP (passed under Bush) was another wrongheaded move. The overwhelming majority of the people were against it. They knew that it was inherently wrong and bad. Their concerns were simply rejected by the politicians. Gun control is the next battlefield. Due to tragedies (none of which would have been prevented by the new laws), politicians have sought to usurp more freedoms that Americans have. It is proven disastrous everywhere they are implemented. Not because they aren't enforced well enough, but because they are bad laws to begin with.
What will be the next non-issue to be turned into an issue? Recognizing polyamorous relationships? A man marrying two (or more women)? Six men and 8 women? Entire towns married to each other? Age of consent laws? Bestiality laws? Where does it stop?
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What will be the next non-issue to be turned into an issue? Recognizing polyamorous relationships? A man marrying two (or more women)? Six men and 8 women? Entire towns married to each other? Age of consent laws? Bestiality laws? Where does it stop?
Pretty soon the government's going to mandate centaur-conversion-surgery.
It's a slippery slope.
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What will be the next non-issue to be turned into an issue? Recognizing polyamorous relationships? A man marrying two (or more women)? Six men and 8 women? Entire towns married to each other? Age of consent laws? Bestiality laws? Where does it stop?
There is the problem with the right of today... Take a problem and conflate it to the level of absurdity and hyperbole.
If I have a choice between someone who is actually trying to address an issue and another who won't admit an issue exists or takes it to the level of the absurd, I have no choice but to go with the lesser choice.
Pick your issue, immigration, gun violence, healthcare, equal rights, taxes, deficit.... we see nothing but angry people yelling to hear themselves and cursing at those who disagree at them. Ideology is far more fun than pragmatism, or problem fixing, and you don't have to do anything except take your principled position.
And now the talk of armed revolution... the right can't win an argument on its merits, so now it wants revolution and big government is out to get us... Big government has its only value when the right wants to bomb another country to smithereens...
The right dislikes anyone with an opposing opinion, let alone facts, we are told that it is unAmerican to oppose the president and follow him blindly into a war that was based on a factually incorrect information.
I'm not happy about this. I wish we had better choices. But as long as the right continues to act like spoiled children and spew nonsense, like cutting taxes increases revenue, I will continue to shake my head and go the other way.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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j/c I'm still seeing statements about injustices, stolen liberties, tyrannies,etc. Most of what I hear and read is just different political points of view hyperventilated to drama. How can things be SOOOO worse when this administration a lot of what the previous administration does, the congress has pledged, and it could be argued succeeded, in guaranteeing he passes nothing, the health-care act he does pass is based on the republican plan from way back and now he's even liking NAFTA. My memory might not be great but I don't remember this level of manufactured hysteria during any repub presidency. 
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So many people are so bleeping focused on defending their favorite political party that they refuse to see the looming problem. They just insist of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titannic.
It's the total DEBT, caused by spending. Both parties do it.
The rioting, anarchy, and violence will come from those who have been trained to be fed and cared for by government. When this support is no longer available, all hell will break loose.
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The debt is a political smoke and mirror game. Any party dem, repub, inde, libert, can make the debt numbers look like what ever they want. The debt is another political point of view being hyperventilated into drama. And a third of the nation wants to over throw the rest of the nation based on political hyperbole? 
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The debt is a political smoke and mirror game.
Any party dem, repub, inde, libert, can make the debt numbers look like what ever they want.
The debt is another political point of view being hyperventilated into drama.
And a third of the nation wants to over throw the rest of the nation based on political hyperbole?
You've made a lot of good points in the past even though I typically do not agree with them. But saying the debt of our country is political hyperbole? Really? Our country is toast unless we get it under control. I do not see how people cannot see that. Please explain to me how the debt is not the #1 reason that this country will fail in the not so distant future. The debt coupled with the feds relentless printing of money is going to be our downfall. The stock market is only going up because, guess what, our money isn't worth what it was even a year or two ago. Inflation is hitting and people don't even see it. It's crazy. I'm not saying there will be a revolution or anything like that, but things are going to change for the worse. Bank on it.
#gmstrong
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We are reaching the point where debt service outpaces anyything else we spend money on.
This is with interest rates being at historic lows as well. Imagine if we were still at 5 or 6% rates. (where ordinary people could actually save for retirement and have something when they got there) Instead the government manipulates our currency, (both parties) and holds interest rates at artificially low rates, and the debt still explodes.
This country is heading for ruin, and as other economies grow and expand over the years, other countries will have less need to finance our massive debt.(and certainly not at the ridiculously low rates we have today)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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As frustrated as I am with the direction our country is going in and as much shouting from the rooftops as I did on the 'new old board' to support my opinion and DREAD the day I might have to say 'I told you so' I will not take up arms against my countrymen.
I know this might be a stupid 'illustration' of what our country would be like in the aftermath of such a situation but how do we show up at CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM next to someone we'd actually had in our sights sometime in the not too distant past?
I've thought about this a lot, and the only way we come out as Americans on the other side of the approaching catastrophe is to just let it come down around our ears, love our neighbors and let it reboot.
Might even be a good thing.
America, the rebeautiful.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
my two cents...
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Rockdog, either you are confusing the total national debt with the yearly deficit, or there is something very seriously wrong with your grip on reality.
The numbers are frightening and unrelenting. We are going to run out of money, at least money which still has any value. One of the very few choices we as a nation have left is how we are going to expend our remaining capital. We are a business on the verge of bankruptcy.
Unfortunately, our Board of Directors is incompetent and many of the stockholders are delusional. Most of the rest have no freaking clue what is going on.
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Debt is very real.
There is a political football game that shapes how it's discussed and reacted to, but the actual debt itself is very real.
We have some things in our favor in that regard that some fail to note - in large part, our creditors cannot survive without us, nor can they currently overpower us.
But those are not static advantages.
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Debt is very real.
There is a political football game that shapes how it's discussed and reacted to, but the actual debt itself is very real.
We have some things in our favor in that regard that some fail to note - in large part, our creditors cannot survive without us, nor can they currently overpower us.
But those are not static advantages.
They are definitely not static.
When I look at other smaller (compared to us) but growing economies like China, India, and Brazil (and even Mexico) ..... all having fits and starts ..... but growing, and if not potentially putting the US' traditional position at the top of the heap at risk, at least minimizing our influence and power in the world economy. When our power in the world economy lessens, then so does our ability to dictate that our monetary policy just be accepted by the rest of the world. (and I don't know if I really explained what I mean all that clearly there, but right now that's about the best way I can put it) Sooner or later, (and not this week, or maybe even in the next couple of decades, but sooner or later, and probably sooner than some think) we are going to find our economic power in the world reduced to the point where other countries may just find themselves in position to dictate to us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Of course debt is a problem.
My point is one party could be in office running up debt with nary a worry, but when the other party comes in debt is suddenly the apocalypse.
Yes there were conservatives disturbed by Bush's debt accumulation, but they were over-shadowed by the enormous support for simultaneously fighting 2 wars AND cutting taxes.
Tax cuts that were supposed to provide jobs and increase our economic stability, but the economy tanked and jobs left for cheaper wages, while profits at the top increased.
Don't write me off as a "Bush Blamer" either.
What was necessary then is suddenly a cause for armed revolution now??
Politics as usual.
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j/c
I hope no one takes the poll in the OP seriously...
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Yes there were conservatives disturbed by Bush's debt accumulation, but they were over-shadowed by the enormous support for simultaneously fighting 2 wars AND cutting taxes.
There were/are a substantial number of conservatives disturbed by Bush's debt accumulation. They weren't overshadowed and it showed in the elections. They had the balls to not accept what the republican party tried to shove down their throats. (I'm a conservative and I haven't voted for the republican nominee in the last two elections.) As much as libs are trying to paint the picture, this isn't a case of people only becoming disgruntled because there's now a democrat in office. This problem's been festering for quite some time, and it's approaching the breaking point.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Debt is real, but any position that states spending is the sole problem fails math.
We cut taxes because we had a balanced budget?
We can add the wars and Medicare part D.
There is a revenue side to spending, but Norquest et al, won't go there because of ideology.
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This country has a spending problem, not an income problem.
Wars, while they cost a lot no doubt, are not the problem.
We've not had a balanced budget in decades.....don't let the Clinton years fool you.
Plus, a balanced budget doesn't decrease our debt anyway.
This country has a spending problem. R or D, it IS a spending problem. And no one will do anything about it. THAT, folks, is how this country will sink/is sinking.
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Even those who don't really rely on the government to provide for them in a nanny fashion ... do you have a mortgage? Do you have a family? Do you enjoy watching the Browns on Sunday? What would it take for you to risk that?
IMO, if we have a rising up, it will start with those on assistance when we reach a point we can no longer provide for them. Then they become desperate, and self-security becomes a bigger issue as those in need start looking to take from those who have.
This would continue to build and grow as the problem becomes bigger than the authorities can handle and people become responsible for securing themselves and their familes. At which time some of us will be thankful for our 2A rights.
I really don't see an organized rebellion on Washington per se, as much as I do just a growing anarchist view and possibly marshall law scenario by those who can not provide for themselves without taking from others.
This.
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You failed the math test.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Wars, while they cost a lot no doubt, are not the problem.
Not sure how this can be true, especially when one of the wars was a complete SANFU.
Don't ask me to provide documentation to back up this thought, but I'm pretty sure the Iraq war wasn't planned out with a budget in mind.
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You failed the math test.
The only part I won't agree with arch on is the wars - they certainly had an impact. Saying we have a spending problem and not and income problem is 100% true IMO. Revenues have been pretty consistent:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200
But lets just tax some more, that'll fix it. 
Make some meaningful cuts, show the population they are serious about righting this ship. If I knew for certain that my money was not being frivolously spent I wouldn't have a problem with paying a bit more in taxes.
#gmstrong
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YOU have failed the reality test.
Have you not been paying attention? You want to give these clowns in Washington MORE money? Do you enjoy watching your hard-earned wages being wasted and spent stupidly?
Will they pay down the debt, or borrow less, if they have more money? If you think so, please cite an example from the last 40 years or so.
Give them more to spend, and they will spend that, and still borrow more.
Cut OFF the cash flow. There is no other way.
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Cut OFF the cash flow. There is no other way.
Who is John Galt?  This ought to send folks like Rockdogg, Mantis and PDR into a hissy fit.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,093
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,093 |
I already answered that question a few months ago. Look it up.  And I'll save you some keystrokes ... I'm a "he." We wouldn't want those typing fingers to get tired. 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Poll: 29% of Registered Voters
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