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I said it earlier and I will say it again.............one can make a strong argument that Luck was more important to his team than any other player in the league last year.
If you take MVP by it's literal definition, I think he should've won or been considered heavily.
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Exactly.
Oh, and I should make this clear. I wasn't bad-mouthing RGIII or Wilson. Both played brilliantly last year. I would love to have either one of them, and no, I was not a proponent of giving up the farm for RGIII and I never said one word about drafting Wilson. But both guys played great and I underestimated them.
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my eyes saw a gifted QB who trusted his arm too much and misread complicated NFL defenses on many occassions. A QB who believed in his own playmaking abilities to the point where he would hold onto the ball too long and throw into too tight of coverage. And, a QB in a QB-friendly offense that tends to bloat statistics not gaining those stats. The overall result being either a spectacular play or a turnover on many occasions.
as mentioned, I believe he will make the step forward this upcoming season (whether or not the Colts win as many games) while Wilson and RGIII suffer through some regression (as DC's better account for their style and offenses). so, it's not like I am "under-rating" Mr. Luck other than that he is not near a top10 QB yet (though he certainly has the skillset to get there - he just needs to learn when to trust his abilities and when to look for another option).
#gmstrong
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2nd String
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The Colts' offense isn't quarterback-friendly, though. That's kind of the point we're all trying to make here.
They have so little talent on offense. His play alone almost entirely dictates whether the Colts are going to win or not since Indianapolis has a terrible offensive line, can't run the ball, and has a poor defense. This hurts his stats, not helps them. If Luck went to a semi-decent team instead of Indianapolis, his stats would be much better than they are now.
All of this makes his leading the Colts to 11-5 even more impressive.
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jc
it's obvious Luck has that one thing we all want to see in Weeden
The "IT" factor.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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By "it" do you mean "horrible beard?"
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Quote:
Quote:
I said it earlier and I will say it again.............one can make a strong argument that Luck was more important to his team than any other player in the league last year.
If you take MVP by it's literal definition, I think he should've won or been considered heavily.
I'm having a hard time figuring out why this is even debatable. I mean seriously, he was nothing short of amazing last season.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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How did Luck and Manning hyjack this thread??  Freeman has the physical tools, but I'm not convinced he's and NFL QB. The consistency just isn't there. And he's had players around him too.
here's to you here's to me, browns fans we'll always be. but if by chance we should disagree, to heck with you and here's to me!
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How did Luck and Manning hyjack this thread??
Freeman has the physical tools, but I'm not convinced he's and NFL QB. The consistency just isn't there. And he's had players around him too.
Don't know,, I guess comparisons were taking place...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
but I'm not convinced he's an NFL QB.
4 year starter in the NFL putting up better than average numbers.....just what is your definition of "NFL QB"?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Quote:
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but I'm not convinced he's an NFL QB.
4 year starter in the NFL putting up better than average numbers.....just what is your definition of "NFL QB"?
In fairness, Freeman has been up and down. He also does struggle with accuracy, especially when he tries to do too much. That said, I would still take a chance on him if he became available.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'd agree, up and down ordeal. Moments of awesome'ness, and moments of  I don't know if I'd want to take a chance on him though. If a QB comes outta free agency, I just hope it's a proven QB that isn't a Jake Delhomme and past his playing days and etc. I am old with this junk-in and junk-out ordeal at the QB position.
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Any QB that hits free agency these days is either:
A) Old.
B) Injured.
C) Flawed, but still with some hope of being fixed.
D) Not very good, a backup at best.
E) Some combination of any of the above.
I cannot think of the last upper quality, healthy QB who became a free agent, at the peak of his career
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Was Drew Brees a FA? I thought that's how he ended up with the Saints. I remember lots of folks wanted him here. I didn't, I was worried about his shoulder. boy was I ever wrong. 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Peyton Manning? He was coming off an injury, but his play told us that he wasn't injured.
I would say your list also applies to the trade market, with Jay Cutler being the last guy to be traded as an "upper quality QB."
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He was a free agent, and fell into the severely injured category. Many people were unsure whether or not his arm would hold up to a complete season ever again.
The Saints took a big risk, and it paid off.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Any QB that hits free agency these days is either:
A) Old.
B) Injured.
C) Flawed, but still with some hope of being fixed.
D) Not very good, a backup at best.
E) Some combination of any of the above.
I cannot think of the last upper quality, healthy QB who became a free agent, at the peak of his career
Maybe you don't think that Flacco was an upper quality QB, but he got paid like one.
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Quote:
Was Drew Brees a FA? I thought that's how he ended up with the Saints. I remember lots of folks wanted him here. I didn't, I was worried about his shoulder. boy was I ever wrong.
Yes with major questions about his shoulder - Sabah wanted him in Miami but their FO worried he was too hurt....
Manning could be pointed at as another big name qb to hit the market but hes a bit older and also had injury issues
I agree with ytown - very unlikely you see a good qb hit the open market without major injury questions
<><
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Quote:
Quote:
Any QB that hits free agency these days is either:
A) Old.
B) Injured.
C) Flawed, but still with some hope of being fixed.
D) Not very good, a backup at best.
E) Some combination of any of the above.
I cannot think of the last upper quality, healthy QB who became a free agent, at the peak of his career
Maybe you don't think that Flacco was an upper quality QB, but he got paid like one.
Flacco didn't hit free agency, so I'm not sure why he would be in the discussion. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
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but I'm not convinced he's an NFL QB.
4 year starter in the NFL putting up better than average numbers.....just what is your definition of "NFL QB"?
In fairness, Freeman has been up and down. He also does struggle with accuracy, especially when he tries to do too much. That said, I would still take a chance on him if he became available.
So have numerous other NFL quarterbacks.....I think starting for 4 consecutive seasons would qualify one as a legitimate NFL quarterback. He didn't say "elite NFL quarterback". All I'm saying is that a person who performs a job at a professional level for 4 years is deserving of the job title.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Any QB that hits free agency these days is either:
A) Old.
B) Injured.
C) Flawed, but still with some hope of being fixed.
D) Not very good, a backup at best.
E) Some combination of any of the above.
I cannot think of the last upper quality, healthy QB who became a free agent, at the peak of his career
Maybe you don't think that Flacco was an upper quality QB, but he got paid like one.
Flacco didn't hit free agency, so I'm not sure why he would be in the discussion.
Alright. Terminology. He was slated to become a free agent but his deal was worked before the new NFL year began. He would have been a free agent minus the end of deal reached after the season and the beginning of the new NFL year in March.
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I thought that the Ravens were committed to franchising him if they hadn't worked out a deal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought that the Ravens were committed to franchising him if they hadn't worked out a deal.
Fair enough.
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Yes with major questions about his shoulder - Sabah wanted him in Miami but their FO worried he was too hurt....
True - except that Brees was going to go on the market even if he hadn't been injured. Going into the last game, it was clear that Rivers was starting next year, and Brees was gone.
~Lyuokdea
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Yes with major questions about his shoulder - Sabah wanted him in Miami but their FO worried he was too hurt....
True - except that Brees was going to go on the market even if he hadn't been injured. Going into the last game, it was clear that Rivers was starting next year, and Brees was gone.
Yes, that's what I remember also,, The Chargers were making a commitment to Rivers and Brees was going to be history anyway.. Injury or not.
So I think he's the exception.
#GMSTRONG
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Didn't Brees only really have 1 good year before leaving SD? Which was the year they picked up Rivers, and had he not held out, Brees most likely would not have seen the field that year.
So when he hit FA, he had 1 good year and an injury, hardly top tier QB in FA perspective at the time. Looking back we see it, but at the time he was a risk.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Didn't Brees only really have 1 good year before leaving SD? Which was the year they picked up Rivers, and had he not held out, Brees most likely would not have seen the field that year.
So when he hit FA, he had 1 good year and an injury, hardly top tier QB in FA perspective at the time. Looking back we see it, but at the time he was a risk.
No, he had 2 good years (but yes, both after they drafted Rivers). And SD was sitting Rivers for both of those first 2 years as a top4 pick and getting antsy to see the field.
As it turned out, Brees ended up being better, but it's not like Rivers was terrible either. It was an incredibly difficult decision that was seemingly made before the injury.
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You are 100% correct on Luck.
Hard to even imagine a better rookie year. He took a team to the playoffs on his back when the previous year they won 2 games. Not only did they win just 2 games but they got blown out
In week seven, the New Orleans Saints walloped the Colts 62-7, the most lopsided game of the 2011 NFL season and the first time a team had allowed 60 or more points since January 2000.
The Colts offense had weakened rapidly in 2011. They were 30th in the league in yards gained (compared to 4th in 2010), 27th in passing yards (compared to 1st in 2010), 29th in receiving yards (compared to 2nd in 2010), 28th in scoring (compared to 4th in 2010), and 28th in total touchdowns (compared to 2nd in 2010).
Andrew Luck will be one of the giants in NFL history when it is all said and done.
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Quote:
You are 100% correct on Luck.
Hard to even imagine a better rookie year. He took a team to the playoffs on his back when the previous year they won 2 games. Not only did they win just 2 games but they got blown out
In week seven, the New Orleans Saints walloped the Colts 62-7, the most lopsided game of the 2011 NFL season and the first time a team had allowed 60 or more points since January 2000.
The Colts offense had weakened rapidly in 2011. They were 30th in the league in yards gained (compared to 4th in 2010), 27th in passing yards (compared to 1st in 2010), 29th in receiving yards (compared to 2nd in 2010), 28th in scoring (compared to 4th in 2010), and 28th in total touchdowns (compared to 2nd in 2010).
Andrew Luck will be one of the giants in NFL history when it is all said and done.
We just had to play a little less horrible than the Colts.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
You are 100% correct on Luck.
Hard to even imagine a better rookie year. He took a team to the playoffs on his back when the previous year they won 2 games. Not only did they win just 2 games but they got blown out
In week seven, the New Orleans Saints walloped the Colts 62-7, the most lopsided game of the 2011 NFL season and the first time a team had allowed 60 or more points since January 2000.
The Colts offense had weakened rapidly in 2011. They were 30th in the league in yards gained (compared to 4th in 2010), 27th in passing yards (compared to 1st in 2010), 29th in receiving yards (compared to 2nd in 2010), 28th in scoring (compared to 4th in 2010), and 28th in total touchdowns (compared to 2nd in 2010).
Andrew Luck will be one of the giants in NFL history when it is all said and done.
We just had to play a little less horrible than the Colts.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMO Heckert set us up nicely to make a run at Luck or RG3. Just bad fortune that the year Luck and RG3 come out, Manning has surgery and the Colts suck for Luck. Without the Colts in the mix, we would have had a great shot at Luck.
Story of this franchise.....
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I agree. And his plan worked out even better because there were two franchise QBs instead of just Luck.
I would be afraid that if we did get Luck or RGIII they would have been Shurmured anyway.
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It hurts so bad that Luck is not a Brown that I can't even talk about it.
As the Browns muddle along I have decided to also watch Luck as often as possible. Just for the pure joy of watching a quarterback play the position.
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What's annoying about the Colts is that by sucking in two particularly well-timed years (1997 and 2011), they ensured themselves about thirty years of success.
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LOL......I was thinking the same thing.
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They also drafted John Elway.
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Just unfair and unreal how that happened that way.
I remember watching the last game of the Colts against the Jags. Just praying that Jones Drew would break a toe.
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LOL......I was thinking the same thing.
we can also throw the steelers in the mix too... see Big Ben.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Hi guys 
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Quote:
What's annoying about the Colts is that by sucking in two particularly well-timed years (1997 and 2011), they ensured themselves about thirty years of success.
And it's not like they couldn't have gotten a better QB than Painter. So I think in these cases, it was more by design than by circumstance.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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