|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/08/browns-sign-rashad-butler/"Tackle Rashad Butler has missed 30 of the last 32 games after tearing his triceps twice and he’ll be trying to get his career back on track in Cleveland this season. Butler’s agent Ken Sarnoff tweeted out congratulations to Butler on signing a deal with the Browns. No financial terms have been announced for the deal with Butler, who entered the league as a third-round pick of the Panthers in 2006. He never played for Carolina, joining the Texans the next year and playing in 42 games with Houston. Butler had a shot to become the right tackle last summer after Eric Winston left the team, but wound up being beaten out by Derek Newton during camp. Butler’s injury might have made losing that competition a moot point, but he was ticketed for a backup role all the same. He’ll be trying to land the same role in Cleveland. Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz are set as the team’s starters at left and right tackle respectively, leaving Butler to fight for a job against Oniel Cousins, 2013 seventh-round pick Garrett Gilkey and others."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,950 Likes: 763 |
At the worst, he's a camp body. I'd expect that we got him for league minimum given the injury history, and lack of playing history.
Hope he can help us out.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815 |
Quote:
At the worst, he's a camp body. I'd expect that we got him for league minimum given the injury history, and lack of playing history.
Hope he can help us out.
I would think minimum with possibly some incentives and even possibly some signing bonus money, but that would be minimal if any was given at all.
I like the move. He had some talent. Now we find out if he still does.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,991 Likes: 362
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,991 Likes: 362 |
He tore his biceps, and missed almost 2 whole years? That seems excessive. He played 2 games in 2011, and none last year. He seems like a considerable risk, especially for a guy who is 30, and a "smaller" Tackle at 286#.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36 |
j/c
You can't evaluate a player unless you bring him in to compete. I don't see much downside to the signing. There is a glaring lack of depth behind Thomas and Schwartz. Chud knows something about the guy so I'll keep an open mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Quote:
He tore his biceps, and missed almost 2 whole years? That seems excessive. He played 2 games in 2011, and none last year. He seems like a considerable risk, especially for a guy who is 30, and a "smaller" Tackle at 286#.
30??????????? why would banner do that? he gets rid of everyone that is 30?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Quote:
He tore his biceps, and missed almost 2 whole years? That seems excessive. He played 2 games in 2011, and none last year. He seems like a considerable risk, especially for a guy who is 30, and a "smaller" Tackle at 286#.
As much as it sickens me to admit this, but I think Tony Pashos is a more reliable option and we all know how fragile he was haha. I didn't want to state it in my initial post, but we better have paid next to nothing for this guy. He's been a bench warmer what, 94% of his NFL career?
Seriously unless Lombardi/Banner knows something I don't, this seems like a joke of a signing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 187
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 187 |
Now the FO is already trying to replace Schwartz? You know since he wasn't their pick. Is he on the trade block? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
30??????????? why would banner do that? he gets rid of everyone that is 30?
His birth certificate was as phony as Ansah's? (No facts; merely poking fun...)
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
How is he a considerable risk? What is the downside to signing a guy to the 80 man roster likely for minimum salary before training camp?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Yeah, it's not a risk. But, then again........it probably won't pay any dividends either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
How is he a considerable risk? What is the downside to signing a guy to the 80 man roster likely for minimum salary before training camp?
there is no risk save a little cash... it's a flyer if it works great if not... meh who gives a rats....
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815 |
Quote:
Yeah, it's not a risk. But, then again........it probably won't pay any dividends either.
Probably not, just like putting two $100 chips on green 00 ( I was feeling pretty good if you know what i mean) doesn't pay often, but when it does, it's sweet....I did that once some years back....paid a great deal and more of the weekend I might add......35:1 for those not in the know.
That was a good 4 days....I hit a few slots and had some luck at cards....I made some real money that trip....most ever for me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
He tore his biceps, and missed almost 2 whole years? That seems excessive. He played 2 games in 2011, and none last year. He seems like a considerable risk, especially for a guy who is 30, and a "smaller" Tackle at 286#.
So did DQ.. Not sure it was a bicep he tore,, I seem to think not. But he missed the better part of two years.
I suspect he's camp fodder. Trying to catch lightning in the bottle.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36 |
It's just splitting hairs but DQ tore his pec. Ryan Tucker tore his bicep.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,991 Likes: 362
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,991 Likes: 362 |
Quote:
How is he a considerable risk? What is the downside to signing a guy to the 80 man roster likely for minimum salary before training camp?
I should have said "A considerable risk that he's able to contribute anything".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Quote:
How is he a considerable risk? What is the downside to signing a guy to the 80 man roster likely for minimum salary before training camp?
There is always a downside, leave it to me be the naysayer again.
First, is this financially motivated? Suppose someone just decided they are paying too much for the offensive line, and decided just get rid of them all. Then the voice of reason would step in and say, Hey you have to field an offensive line.
So they go out and get someone to fill a roster spot, undersized, and with almost no experience, because of injury history. Now suppose they decide to just waive 4 of the top 8 linemen, for various reasons, and yet this guy stays on the roster.
Well they'll have someone to fill the roster spot, and best case scenario, this guy gets healthy, and you have an undersized inexperienced depth player, or a guy that they can claim is much more than that, even if hs isn't.. or is.
So the downside is if they use this signing as manueverability to waive a concieveably better player, or two, or more and mess with the cohesion of the line that has worked together for a while.
Suppose there was a pre-decision to waive Jon Greco, Ryan Miller, Oneil Cousins, and Jason Pinkston.
"Well, who's gonna play guard?"
" Gilkey, the draft pick."
"Well, who's gonna be the backup?"
"Go sign Butler."
In the end, they'd be worse, but they can spin it; they can always spin it with their explanations and verbal assurances.
Now! Did any of this happen? NO! Do I think anything like this is happening? I Hope NOT!
But you're asking for a downside. We have seen a roster get dismantled before because it happens to the Browns, often.
If this guy, or these guys, are good enough to win the job because they are the better player, and the team in the end is better, then great
Any other reason, then not so great.
Even if there are 100 roster spots, low upside roster moves are nothing to cheer.
That's just the downside. The Upside is they signed a player, maybe he'll work out.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 68
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 68 |
He has a chance to fill a role in the DL rotation. I hope he works out, if not, no harm no foul.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,853 Likes: 953
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,853 Likes: 953 |
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 Likes: 5
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 Likes: 5 |
LOL
You could spin a anvil between your fingers couldn't you?
Absolutely hilarious reading you!!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Whatever increases the chances of getting Cousins off the roster as a swing OT is good for me...I hope him or Faulk, or both, are better than Cousins. We need someone who can adequately play RT if Schwartz or Thomas should miss snaps...all I know is that Cousins isn't that someone
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
J/C
I see this as a low risk signing. If he doesnt pan out no real big deal. Its not like we are tight on cap space.
We should spray some antler growth Ray Lewis stuff on his arm.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
...you're asking for a downside. We have seen a roster get dismantled before
I don't see any apparent downside. They won't touch the OL except to further strengthen it....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
Every OL signing should be prefaced with a report: Oniel Cousins still on Browns roster. Set to make $725,000 this season.
Owen Marecic still on Browns roster! Set to make $465,000.
Do we have anyone else embarassingly bad? Browns keep Buster Skrine. Still embarassingly short!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36 |
j/c
The following is an observation, not to be confused with a criticism...
I don't mind the attention being paid to the OL. Although it's one of the strongest units on the team the FO seems to be trying to tweak it somehow. I am not opposed to trying to improve a strength; the logic behind it is just not obvious to me unless some of these OT's they are bringing in will be tried at guard. They aren't saying this publicly nor do they have to. It just leaves questions hanging out there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
It just leaves questions hanging out there.
Outside of Greco, we are perilously thin for depth that exhibits experience, talent, potential. Any significant injury leaves us exposed...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
Quote:
J/C
We should spray some antler growth Ray Lewis stuff on his arm.
Or Windex.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
How is he a considerable risk? What is the downside to signing a guy to the 80 man roster likely for minimum salary before training camp?
There is always a downside, leave it to me be the naysayer again.
First, is this financially motivated? Suppose someone just decided they are paying too much for the offensive line, and decided just get rid of them all. Then the voice of reason would step in and say, Hey you have to field an offensive line.
So they go out and get someone to fill a roster spot, undersized, and with almost no experience, because of injury history. Now suppose they decide to just waive 4 of the top 8 linemen, for various reasons, and yet this guy stays on the roster.
Well they'll have someone to fill the roster spot, and best case scenario, this guy gets healthy, and you have an undersized inexperienced depth player, or a guy that they can claim is much more than that, even if hs isn't.. or is.
So the downside is if they use this signing as manueverability to waive a concieveably better player, or two, or more and mess with the cohesion of the line that has worked together for a while.
Suppose there was a pre-decision to waive Jon Greco, Ryan Miller, Oneil Cousins, and Jason Pinkston.
"Well, who's gonna play guard?"
" Gilkey, the draft pick."
"Well, who's gonna be the backup?"
"Go sign Butler."
In the end, they'd be worse, but they can spin it; they can always spin it with their explanations and verbal assurances.
Now! Did any of this happen? NO! Do I think anything like this is happening? I Hope NOT!
But you're asking for a downside. We have seen a roster get dismantled before because it happens to the Browns, often.
If this guy, or these guys, are good enough to win the job because they are the better player, and the team in the end is better, then great
Any other reason, then not so great.
Even if there are 100 roster spots, low upside roster moves are nothing to cheer.
That's just the downside. The Upside is they signed a player, maybe he'll work out.
You make my brain hurt.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,592 Likes: 815 |
I was hoping I wouldn't have to see a reposting of that.  At this point, any players of this type are moves to possibly strengthen the bottom of the roster. Building the bottom of the roster is as important as building the top of the roster. I don't see any negatives.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,153 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
I was hoping I wouldn't have to see a reposting of that.
At this point, any players of this type are moves to possibly strengthen the bottom of the roster.
Building the bottom of the roster is as important as building the top of the roster.
I don't see any negatives.
And to do it with little to no risk,, tell me that isn't a BIG + 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 11
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 11 |
Another no name veteran with a ton of injury history. Great!
Isn't Brandon Moore still a free agent!? He would be way better than any of the Guards we currently have on the team.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
Isn't Brandon Moore still a free agent!? He would be way better than any of the Guards we currently have on the team.
If that was true I doubt he would be unsigned as of yet. Again we got OGs that can be upgraded on but not as easily as one will think. We seem to be signing a heck of a lot of OTs not OGs. Although I have maintained that OTs can move to the Interior a lot easier than OGs going outside. But it looks like we are looking to upgrade on our depth...possibly one of these kids can surprise in the development n upgrade on Greco, Pinkston or Lava. But they got to be a heck of a player to do so.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
If that was true I doubt he would be unsigned as of yet.
Charles Woodson, Kerry Rhodes, Dwight Freeney, John Abraham, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Eric Winston are all unsigned. There are good players that are unsigned because A) They haven't got the deal they want B) They haven't got an offer from a team they want C) They haven't got the deal they want from the team they want.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
It's just splitting hairs but DQ tore his pec. Ryan Tucker tore his bicep.
And this guy tore his tricep... twice.
I would imagine with the push and arm extension required of an OT, tearing a tricep is about as debilitating an upper body injury as a guy can have... probably rushed back too soon which is why he tore it again...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,610 Likes: 240
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,610 Likes: 240 |
Quote:
Quote:
It's just splitting hairs but DQ tore his pec. Ryan Tucker tore his bicep.
And this guy tore his tricep... twice.
I would imagine with the push and arm extension required of an OT, tearing a tricep is about as debilitating an upper body injury as a guy can have... probably rushed back too soon which is why he tore it again...
I don't know... I think tearing both of your pecs would be pretty bad injury... see DQ on that one.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...r-of-the-month/
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Talking about OG FA not on the top tier. If so he is asking for way more than what we are looking to spend. Also is he over 30...Where's Mac when you need him...lol 
The other guys are mostly players over their prime n looking for way too much - most will sign probably for one year contracts. Moore not sure where he played NY? But OG not on the top tier are usually good bang for the buck in FA. Why I made my comment. Others are in positions of Payment...OT, Pass Rushers, etc. OG, TE, LB are the grunts of football.
JMHO - again not so easy to upgrade on what we got.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,038 Likes: 15
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,038 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Talking about OG FA not on the top tier. If so he is asking for way more than what we are looking to spend. Also is he over 30...Where's Mac when you need him...lol
The other guys are mostly players over their prime n looking for way too much - most will sign probably for one year contracts. Moore not sure where he played NY? But OG not on the top tier are usually good bang for the buck in FA. Why I made my comment. Others are in positions of Payment...OT, Pass Rushers, etc. OG, TE, LB are the grunts of football.
JMHO - again not so easy to upgrade on what we got.
So true! I guess that is why Banner/Chud/Farmer/Lombardi felt OG was not dire need during the draft getting small school OT Gilkey in late rounds and UDFA injured LSU OT Chris Faulk. If I had to guess, Butler is insurance if Gilkey and Faulk don't make the team. Anything is better than relying on Cousins as depth.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,419 Likes: 1371
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,419 Likes: 1371 |
Insurance for a 7th rounder.... Never heard that before.  He's just another body in training camp. Won't be surprised if he is cut sooner rather than later. Good luck to the guy. Stay healthy.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 05/09/13 01:58 PM.
Tackles are tackles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,038 Likes: 15
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,038 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Insurance for a 7th rounder.... Never heard that before.
He's just another body in training camp. Won't be surprised if he is cut sooner rather than later. Good luck to the guy. Stay healthy.
Insurance for a 7th rounder!! I hear ya! Cousins is the guy needing replaced. So much need at other places, it is hard to get good depth. You hope drafted later rounders with potential fill the roster. Cousins is getting paid to watch football, if he ever plays, 2008 here we come!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
I don't know... I think tearing both of your pecs would be pretty bad injury... see DQ on that one.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...r-of-the-month/
Well, I wasn't really comparing the severity of this guys injury to the severity of DQs injury.. I was comparing the severity of an OT tearing a tricep with the severity of other OT injuries because of the nature of the position.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign tackle Rashad Butler
|
|
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
