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If you want to argue that Clark or Davis were worse than Mangini, then I can see that point of view. That's a valid argument.

But you can't shine a turd. Mangini's draft was atrocious.

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Mangini did not break the trend of Bleh drafting, but he did draft contributors, and long term NFL contributors at that.

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So those guys are 'contributors', but guys like Andra Davis are 'overrated'? KJ is 'average at best' and Northcutt is 'so-so'?

you have been granted troll status...

I will say goodbye. hopefully others will figure that out.

Banner and Lombardi did not inherit a hole, or have to dig out of a canyon.

The biggesst problems they inherited, the closest things to digging out of a hole they had when they first arrived, were Phil Dawson, and Sheldon Brown.

They basically inherited a solid roster, a put together team that needed to figure out how to get some more wins.
All of this talk, going back to 99 doesn't matter anymore. I only want to look back to 2006 and beyond, the rest is becoming ancient history.
It's been a whole new level of bad since 2006 anyway.
Well 06-11 anyway.

Andra Davis was the epitome of a LB who made a lot of tackles, but few plays. He was a 5th round pick, so he's probably a plus level pick considering where he was picked. I would put Maiava in the same category. He was also a so-so, low impact type LB, who was a value because he was picked so low. He was highly overrated though.

Northcutt and KJ were each decent receivers, but neither became that premiere play maker that the team so desperately needed. Each guy was a 32nd overall pick, which would be a 1st rounder today. They were somewhat productive ..... maybe even fairly productive ..... but not productive for their draft slot. They were an example of what went wrong in those early days of the team. I don't mean to say that they were horrible players, because they weren't. They simply were never as good as they should have been based on their cost.

Northcutt's average season in the NFL was about 490 yards and a TD. Massaquoi's average season has been about 436 yards and almost 2 TD per season. Neither guy was a huge impact. Cutt played on some better teams than Massaquoi did. Massaquoi was a 50th overall pick. Northcutt was a 32nd overall. KJ really had 2 solid seasons, and then a bunch of so-so years. Was he worth the high 2nd round investment? Consider that Drew Brees was also a 32nd overall pick. Sure the Brees pick is a special case, but it really does show how our picks compare to picks made by some other teams. We really needed better to catch up, and we did not get it.

My point was that your evaluations here are pretty slanted.

In defense of Mangini's draft, you cited that he did draft 'long term NFL contributors'. When it came to other drafts, that wasn't enough, and you were harsher. I mean, weren't Northcutt, Davis, etc. also 'long term NFL contributors'?

I thought your argument was well thought out up until that point.

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Northcutt's average season in the NFL was about 490 yards and a TD. Massaquoi's average season has been about 436 yards and almost 2 TD per season. Neither guy was a huge impact.

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Stats don't tell a whole story.

This is nitpicking a bit, and it's not really my point, but Northcutt was absolutely a huge impact at one time.

He was one of our most important - if not the most important - weapons in our playoff year, and turned out one of the most efficient seasons for an NFL WR in 20 years.

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Not even close. Dwight Clark wins that one hands down, running away from the field.

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Have to agree. Heckert was the 1st that did a reasonable job. The jury is still out pending what TRich, Weeden and Gordon do but Clark was by far the worst and really put this organization in a deep deep hole that we are still trying to dig out of. Agree 100% that he is the wort ever. Definitely for this franchise but possibly of any GM ever.

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He was one of our most important - if not the most important - weapons in our playoff year, and turned out one of the most efficient seasons for an NFL WR in 20 years.

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I'd love to know what you mean by that. I loved that season Shame he had the massive drop in that game.

I always remember Northcutt as a great punt returner with the holdingest special teams squad that ever existed.

Andra Davis in the 5th round is a steal in my mind. He had success beyond Cleveland. Even Andre Davis had his niche role and talent in the league for a few years beyond Cleveland. Daylon McCutcheon was a capable starter for a long time as well. A lot of these guys ended up being "starter" material, but never the elite kind of player we remember as good in hindsight. Certainly better than the Robiskies and Veikunes of the world.