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Quote:
Oh dear God ..... Weeden did not put up a "truly terrible year". He broke the rookie record for yards by a Browns rookie QB.
Dear God, indeed!
The previous poster said DA's game was all stats and knocked him for it. You come back w/stats to bolster Weeden. 
You guys are so full of crap.
I really wasn't trying to talk about DA. I was talking about Weeden. You guys slam DA. You slam Colt. And yet you make excuses for Weeden.
I call BS.
The guy sucked last year. He should have never been picked that high.
I am calling it for what it is. BS.
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He should have never been picked that high.
This much I definitely agree with.
DA deserves to get slammed, though. He did plenty of good, but there was plenty of bad as well. I will never forget the ball he threw into the dirt 4 yards in front of JJ and JJ was just so dumbfounded that he stopped dead in his tracks staring at the ball as it wobbled up to him and he glared at DA. That play and the 140mph fastballs he had, to me, epitomized his pathetic short game.
Ditto for Weeden, he's got a LOT of work to do, but where I think Weeden is ahead of DA is in the short game. One thing Weeden really needs to have fixed by like... tomorrow.. is his penchant for getting his passes batted back into his face. If he does that, and get faster at recognizing where he needs to go with the ball (and then does it), I think that he'll be Ok. The good news is that those things can be coached up, and they should improve simply from him being more comfortable back there and hopefully things slowing down for him.
If he does it... that'd rock, because then we're going to be Ok.
If he doesn't... well, we're likely picking Top 5 and getting a new QB. It's a year for evaluations, anyway...
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Good post.
Look, I ain't championing DA here. I shouldn't have used him as an example due to past debates. I was simply trying to point out expectations for a 1st rounder vs a guy who came from a practice squad.
For example. I have an old pick-up truck. Bought it used. I also have a Cadillac XLR that cost over $85,000 new. The freaking Caddy better darn well be better than the truck. Not sure if that makes sense, or not?
You made two comments that I wanna address:
The batted balls comment: I think it's because he has a long, baseball wind-up. It's not low, but it takes a long time and defenders know when he is getting ready to throw. He doesn't move it straight up by his ear and then go through the motion. He reaches his arm back, then rises it, and then starts the forward motion. Takes a long time. Additionally, he really locks on to receivers.
A year for evaluations comment: Yes, I think you are dead-on about that. It's going to make some people unhappy and others will use it to slam the FO, but it's probably a better alternative to blowing everything up again.
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I was actually one of DA's strongest supporters, until the bottom fell out from under him completely. My statement about Weeden breaking the rookie record is accurate.He was also thrown into an offense that, in no way, fit his skills and abilities. Let me ask you a question. Russell Wilson, in Seattle, was allowed to play from the shotgun. He was allowed to use some of the spread, which he was familiar with, in games last year. How much of a difference would it have made in his game if he'd had to play in a straight drop back from Center, strictly regimented offense? Wilson had a spectacular rookie season. Would that have happened in Cleveland, in a strictly run offense? How about RG3? Again, the Redskins ran a lot of shotgun/spread stuff. He had a really great rookie season, but he was also put into the best situation for him to succeed. DA was also put into an offense that fit his abilities. Weeden was put into an unfamiliar offense last year. He did not get to work from the shotgun, where he was most comfortable. He did not have any of the routes and plays with which he was comfortable. He still set the rookie record in passing yards for a Browns rookie QB. He wasn't perfect, and I have never said that he was. He still has things to work on. Maybe he'll never improve to the point that he needs to get to. Maybe he will. Turner seems to think that he will. As far as McCoy, I disliked him because he couldn't create a big play even without a defense on the field. He had only 26 pass plays of 20+ yards out of 463 attempts in 2011. Weeden had 48 such plays on 517 attempts. He has far better at getting guys into position to make plays with the ball. He wasn't perfect. He missed far too many plays down the field. He looked confused at times. He had issues that he has to improve upon this year, or he'll be a former QB. Now I'll sit back and enjoy your rant.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not going to rant, but nice insult.
When you start a post with "Good God," it's not a rant, but if I reply to that post...it is a rant, right?
Whatever.
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"You guys are full of crap" is a rant.
You might want to open your eyes, and see what it is that you, personally, do. You whine about "football posts" ..... but then you throw garbage like that around.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
"You guys are full of crap" is a rant.
You might want to open your eyes, and see what it is that you, personally, do. You whine about "football posts" ..... but then you throw garbage like that around.
bottem line. when was the last time we had a QB in the probowle?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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You know, I paid you a high compliment. Tried talking some football w/you a few days ago. And this is what you give me.
Fine, man. Let's not talk. No problem.
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For example. I have an old pick-up truck. Bought it used. I also have a Cadillac XLR that cost over $85,000 new. The freaking Caddy better darn well be better than the truck. Not sure if that makes sense, or not?
.
Depends on what you are trying to do haul dirt or a night on the town?
So I would say depends how you use the QB you have to his strengths.
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I figured the analogy would be wasted.
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I figured the analogy would be wasted.
Just a poor analogy.
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You know, I paid you a high compliment. Tried talking some football w/you a few days ago. And this is what you give me.
Fine, man. Let's not talk. No problem.
Look at what you threw first. You act all blameless when you just bash people who disagree with you. I quoted a specific example, and you just disregarded that, instead playing the innocent party. Sorry, I don't know how it was on the Browns board, but you can't get away with that crap here. You're gonna get called on it.
I don't mind talking football when you talk football, but when you just bash away, then you have to expect to get bashed back.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Russell Wilson, in Seattle, was allowed to play from the shotgun. He was allowed to use some of the spread, which he was familiar with, in games last year.
Actually, YT, this is about as bad of an example you could have made. Wilson started at two different colleges, NC State and Wisconsin. At both schools, he played in a WCO, and learned the terminology quickly at both places. In fact, IIRC, he transferred out of NC State so he could stay in a pro-style offense. He probably would have been more comfortable in our offense than what they did in Seattle. That's a big reason I had him rated as the third-ranked QB for us.
So, in this case, yeah... You're kind of full of crap.
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Look at what you threw first. You act all blameless when you just bash people who disagree with you. I quoted a specific example, and you just disregarded that, instead playing the innocent party.
For the record your "specific example" was a retort to the post starting with "good god". It was pointed out rather obviously but no one on this board can be wrong. Spaghetti monster forbid someone admit to being wrong. Besides men insult. Get over it. Otherwise put on a dress and go play soccer. Freaking ridiculous. I can't even get on here anymore and read news. It's a freaking reality TV show anymore.
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Sorry, I don't know how it was on the Browns board...
Somewhat more, let's say, "volatile" than this board, but we're working on it... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Look at what you threw first. You act all blameless when you just bash people who disagree with you.
What the heck are you talking about? I never addressed you in my first post. I was wondering why Weeden got so much leeway w/fans when other qbs haven't.
You come back w/your "Good God" comment like I was completely off my rocker. Sorry man, but it was you who started it.
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Sorry, I don't know how it was on the Browns board, but you can't get away with that crap here. You're gonna get called on it.
LOL............did you forget I was on here before? Boards are the same. Too many people worried about looking right rather than being right.
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... looking right rather than being right.
I'm sure you remember the old saying, Vers: "If it don't go, then chrome it!"
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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You said: Quote:
A guy like DA, who cost us nothing, put up one of the best years in Brown's history [not since '99, but history] and got slammed repeatedly. Yet Weeden, who cost us a first round pick and is the same age as DA is NOW, puts up a truly terrible year----and people make excuse after excuse after excuse for him.
Wonder why that is????
I replied:
Quote:
Oh dear God ..... Weeden did not put up a "truly terrible year". He broke the rookie record for yards by a Browns rookie QB. He had a historically bad 1st game, and then threw 14 TD and 13 INT from there out. That's not great, and it's not "truly terrible". It's somewhere in the middle. He had issues, and like most rookie QB, he had problems on the field that need to be corrected. He also played in an offense that was about as far away from playing to his strengths as noon is from midnight. We'll see how he does this year.
People forget that DA was here before 2007, and actually played in 2006. He threw 5 TD and 8 INT and looked fairly awful. He gave little indication that he would be a superstar for a year. (even though I got blasted at the time for saying that I would prefer seeing what he had over seeing more of Frye)
We'll see what happens with Turner and Chud working with him. Frankly I hope that he has a tremendous season, and takes us to the Super Bowl. I don't necessarily believe that we'll make it there, not this year, but that's what I'll hope for until it's proved that we can't get there.
To which, You replied:
Quote:
Dear God, indeed!
The previous poster said DA's game was all stats and knocked him for it. You come back w/stats to bolster Weeden.
You guys are so full of crap.
I really wasn't trying to talk about DA. I was talking about Weeden. You guys slam DA. You slam Colt. And yet you make excuses for Weeden.
I call BS.
The guy sucked last year. He should have never been picked that high.
I am calling it for what it is. BS.
In your response to my comment that Weeden did not have a "truly terrible year" in historical context, you say "you guys are full of crap".
Whatever dude. Go enjoy your $85,000 Cadillac XLR. Have a nice day. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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 I read the previous page n clicked on the next to read some GOOD OL DISCUSSION regarding the Bozo article praising Greco. I come to read a Deadbate of gosh knows DA involved 
Come on lets get back to discussion I know its tough in a Dead Zone as our anticipation is mounting. Lets get off the Tit for Tat stuff -  Unless I'm involved then its OK...lol 
So this Bozo is totally enamored with Greco's STATS not once did he mention him watching on film n liking what he saw...just stats upon stats - supporting his claim. Stats are nice but probably Least relevant on OL play. Oh some grading system was brought up but sorry there are like 250+ OLmen playing and Interior has to be looked at individually several times each play to properly assess. I find it hard to believe that was done by these ratings. These are not Coaches grades that get done after each game.
I am happy btw that Greco is on our team. I see him improving by getting stronger n that seems to be the rep our new Strength n Conditioning guy has. So I hope he studs out.
But I also thought is was interesting that the article noting that we have a new regime that gives him an opportunity to be assessed by a new organization than the last which had him as a Backup to Pinkston. Ummmm hello Bozo speak without really knowing our Browns. The OL coach has not changed. I don't see his opinion changing much. Just Greco's work at being better.
Btw...I never was a big need at OG guy I did think LG was our weak link so if we made an investment HIGH it would be for the LG position as I did not think a late round pick could make any immediate headway into beating out Greco as a backup or Pinkston as a starter. or vice versa. I am very curious how this plays out during Training camp...I could be very wrong. I have not heard anything mentioned about Greco coming into camp Stronger n bigger. Only one actually was Marecic which could be a good thing. Who knows we might have a decent FB the kid is smart. Him stronger n got the knowledge/experience hey we could have a BREAK OUT SEASON from MARECIC!
That should open up some new Doors of Discussion  ...lets not have all roads lead to ROME (QB).
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c Browns notebook: Greco guns for starting role BEREA — Guard John Greco kept his mouth shut when he wasn’t starting, but the gate is open for him this spring, and he intends to run through it. A sixth-year pro, Greco is in the second year of a two-year contract with the Browns. Greco was a third-round pick out of Toledo in 2008, by the Rams. That year’s Sporting News NFL Draft guide rated him as the top guard available; yet, he started only four games in his first four NFL seasons. He started 10 games in 2011 only after Jason Pinkston was derailed by a blood disorder. Did Greco believe all along he could be a productive starting guard? “Absolutely,” he said. “Maybe I didn’t do something. I wasn’t starting for a reason.” Browns general manager Michael Lombardi, who provides almost no specific information on the team’s players, raised some eyebrows during a stop in Canton when he said Greco was “a pleasant surprise” in his work as a starter last year. “I’m hungry for a starting spot, no matter where it is,” said Greco, who is being scrutinized at both left guard and right guard. Greco let slip some insight on how coordinator Norv Turner’s attack might be leaning. “Every O-lineman loves this offensive system,” he said. “For the most part, it seems it’s going to be run-oriented, and that’s what we like. Pound it out. Go for play action. And we have talent all over the field, so ...” Greco, who played high school ball at Boardman, hopes Cleveland becomes a long-range home. “I’d love to stay,” he said. Head coach Rob Chudzinski, relying on game tapes, said Greco “did a really nice job last season ... he’s a valuable guy.” http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/x1884772...le?rssfeed=truepink started lg and Greco started rg. lava with the second team today.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
Browns general manager Michael Lombardi, who provides almost no specific information on the team’s players, raised some eyebrows during a stop in Canton when he said Greco was “a pleasant surprise” in his work as a starter last year.
Wonder why that would raise eyebrows? The guy played very well last year. He is athletic. He gets to the second level. He has good feet. He did a very good job in pass blocking [thank God w/the qb we had back there].
I thought he played better than any guard on the team. I am saying he will start at LG this year.
I missed this part:
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pink started lg and Greco started rg. lava with the second team today.
Not sure what they are doing? Greco's feet are way better than Pinkston's. What the heck are we going to do----bring in a left handed qb? Just joking..........don't bust an artery, haters.
I would like to see Greco win the LG position and let the best man win between Pinky and Lava Man at RG. I think Lava is better, but it would be interesting.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 05/23/13 08:57 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
"You guys are full of crap" is a rant.
You might want to open your eyes, and see what it is that you, personally, do. You whine about "football posts" ..... but then you throw garbage like that around.
bottem line. when was the last time we had a QB in the probowle?
2007.
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Really? Heck, I thought Weeden made it last year. 
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If I may throw out my thoughts between you v. YTown here...
YTown is correct. Weeden did not have a 'truly terrible' year.
But he certainly did not have a good or promising year. The forecast on Weeden looks grim.
YTown is shaping arguments around the fact that he didn't like McCoy and put his stamp of approval on Weeden. He likes Weeden because he has a gun for an arm. So he'll use stats to defend him, where he would do the opposite for McCoy. He would attack Colt's stats with a microscope (oh, this is garbage time, it doesn't count), but he will use Weeden's stats as a defense of him.
But ... outside of that bias, he's been pretty fair to Weeden.
And I do understand your analogy, though it could have been said better.
If we somehow inserted Thad Lewis into Weeden's performance last year - same stats, same actions, everything to a T - but Thad, not Weeden. Well, then that's a huge success, and a bright star that hopefully could guide the future.
When it's a 29 year old that you made a heavy investment in (and that's goes beyond the #22 pick. That pick was a reward for giving up a lot of draft ground) ... it does not look good.
I can think Weeden has a chance to light it up. I don't think it's going to happen, but last year doesn't tell me 'No way'.
Chud can make offensive weapons look better than they are.
I know people don't like stats ... but he has a track record of taking offenses from bottom to top. He's done it twice now. If anyone can help Weeden out, Chud has to be high on that list.
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You seem like a reasonable poster. I am searching for them. LOL You made a lot of good points and I agree w/most, but disagree w/this one: Quote:
If we somehow inserted Thad Lewis into Weeden's performance last year - same stats, same actions, everything to a T - but Thad, not Weeden. Well, then that's a huge success, and a bright star that hopefully could guide the future.
I get why you are saying and even trying to support me, but man, there are things about Weeden's game that seriously bother me. I am NOT talking stats. I am talking things like these:
---reading coverages
----holding the ball too long
----zero anticipation
----very few signs of "it."
---poor pocket presence
Hard things to overcome. I would never feel good about any qb that had those issues.
But anyway...........thanks for the post. It was good. Those are few and far in between.
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I see what you're saying.
But...let's say we drafted Weeden last year in the 3rd or 4th round.
That - fair or not, correct or incorrect - changes everything for me.
It doesn't mean that I suddenly have hope for Weeden, but there's a better chance of payoff in the investment, so to speak.
Part of me disagrees with that as I type it, but I think it remains true... I don't like the idea of Weeden as our starting QB. But what bothers me more is what we spent to get him.
And I'm actually elated that we stayed put this year instead of drafting a QB. We could debate Alex Smith, but I'm sick and tired of getting a QB because we need a QB.
That's how we landed Weeden, McCoy, Frye, Quinn, etc.
You take a QB because he's special. Not because you need a QB.
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Yes, I agree w/that.
I remember making a post to tab on a pre-draft thread WAY before the draft. I mentioned Weeden as a guy we might want to target in the 4th round if we couldn't trade up for RGIII.
LOL bro, we are both kinda having the same problem here.
I think he would be a fine pick if we got him in the 4th, but I still wouldn't want to turn my team over to him because of the issues I described earlier.
Since he was a 1st round pick, he will get at least part of this year to prove he can overcome his problems. I hope he can, but man, he has some issues that are not really the kind of things you "coach up."
I know this sounds polar to what I have been preaching, but I really hope the guy makes it. We need a freaking break. Goodness....................how many freaking bad qbs do we have to endure?
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Quote:
I get why you are saying and even trying to support me, but man, there are things about Weeden's game that seriously bother me. I am NOT talking stats. I am talking things like these:
---reading coverages
----holding the ball too long
----zero anticipation
----very few signs of "it."
---poor pocket presence
Hard things to overcome. I would never feel good about any qb that had those issues.
Ah yes but having trouble reading coverage also causes holding the ball too long
----zero anticipation
----very few signs of "it."
---poor pocket presence
I believe if Weeden improves on reading the coverage that he will also improve in those area's bro.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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More of a general comment than a specific reply to you ..........but as I have said all along this off-season ...... if Weeden doesn't improve on his weaknesses, then he'll be replaced. He should start this year to see if he can become the QB we need him to be, and if he can't, then he should be replaced.
As far as last year, I think that Weeden got "be careful" drilled into his head so often by the coaching staff we had that it took away some of his aggressiveness in the 2nd half of the season, and made him doubt some of what he saw. Despite that though, he did have a strong year throwing the ball in yards, he was close to TD vs INT which is often difficult for a rookie, (and he had Trent run in a bunch of short TD instead of being allowed to throw them in) and he helped put the big play back into the passing game.
As I have said, he has plenty to work on, and if he doesn't show improvement, then he'll be on the bench and eventually out of the game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
I get why you are saying and even trying to support me, but man, there are things about Weeden's game that seriously bother me. I am NOT talking stats. I am talking things like these:
---reading coverages
----holding the ball too long
----zero anticipation
----very few signs of "it."
---poor pocket presence
Hard things to overcome. I would never feel good about any qb that had those issues.
Ah yes but having trouble reading coverage also causes holding the ball too long
----zero anticipation
----very few signs of "it."
---poor pocket presence
I believe if Weeden improves on reading the coverage that he will also improve in those area's bro.
I agree with this statement. I think that Weeden has all the physical gifts you want in a QB. Most of Weeden's problems stem from his difficulty in processing what the defense is doing and going through his progressions. That's something that comes with effective coaching and experience. I'm not a fan of booting him after 1 season, however, he now has a good coaching staff that will work with him. I'm convinced between the struggles of Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden, Pat Shurmur had to play a part in their poor performance. With Norv Turner, Weeden has the best shot to succeed with some solid tools around him. I hated the pick last year in a West Coast system but in the Run and Gun, I think we'll see a different Brandon Weeden on the field.
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YTown is correct. Weeden did not have a 'truly terrible' year.
But he certainly did not have a good or promising year. The forecast on Weeden looks grim.
Grim? How so?
In this Offense we're gonna be hearing alot of this. Grim my ass.
Good Progress for Weeden: Last week, QB Brandon Weeden said he had a bad day on the day that practice was open to the media. This week, he looked very sharp. He hit WR Travis Benjamin streaking down the sideline for a 45-yard touchdown and completed passes to WR Davone Bess and Greg Little in setting up a field goal in the two-minute offense.
“You guys are out here one day,” Chudzinski said. “I’ve seen a progression with Brandon. With these quarterbacks it’s not going to be about one day. It’s over a course of time. They’re all doing a good job.”
http://cle.scout.com/2/1294025.html
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Legend
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Ah yes but having trouble reading coverage also causes holding the ball too long
True enough.
However, you do realize that reading coverages is very different from reading defenses? Even announcers seem to mix them up.
Reading coverages and anticipation are two things that really aren't taught. You can teach a guy how to read defenses by breaking down the game tapes over and over and over. You can improve his motion. You can improve his footwork. You can coach him up to throw the ball quicker by doing drills where he gets rid of it w/in a set time, such as the 2.1 second rule. However, throwing w/anticipation and reading coverages are a different animal. We'll see.
Look, I think we should give him at least another year to prove himself. I am not saying he can't improve. Perhaps Shurmur's insistence that he could not throw picks caused him to hold the ball longer and longer as the year went on? Then again, if he isn't being "checked," it could lead to a huge number of interceptions.
I don't think he is as accurate as most say he is. And again, his decision making is a huge weakness in my eyes. I also don't see him as a gutty qb who will stand in there and deliver the ball in the face of a rush.
I hope he makes it. I think he could. I just don't feel very confident about it.
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Legend
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On the Guards n article regarding Greco.
Hope the kid became a gym rat this off season.
I see a bona fide competition as they are rotating the 3...I have not read about Pinkston playing RG yet nor Greco playing LG yet.
What I do know...OTA's nobody is being evaluated...totally impossible unless its which one is slower than the other picking up on the new Offense.
I just hope there is enough Hitting in Training Camp to be able to make a proper analysis of the 3 OGs to determine who is best starting n where?
I love OL competition - it brings out the best of them. Can't wait for real useful reports about hitting with shoulder pads. Right now is just enough info to pick which one can compete on Dancing With The Stars...
I am happy with whoever Warhop goes with! Oh n btw I think all 3 this is their Last year of Contracts with us...WOW - maybe why all the rotation???
JMHO - I'm like well let Lava play RG n whoever wins the LG spot so be it... 
Last edited by eotab; 05/24/13 11:25 AM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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tab.....there was a post in this very thread that stated that Greco was at LG and Pinky at RG, w/Lava man backing up Pinky.
I am not saying that it will work out that way. Not at all. But man, it is in this very thread.
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However, you do realize that reading coverages is very different from reading defenses? Even announcers seem to mix them up.
I sure as hell do and Brandon needs a lot of work at both.
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Reading coverages and anticipation are two things that really aren't taught. You can teach a guy how to read defenses by breaking down the game tapes over and over and over. You can improve his motion. You can improve his footwork. You can coach him up to throw the ball quicker by doing drills where he gets rid of it w/in a set time, such as the 2.1 second rule. However, throwing w/anticipation and reading coverages are a different animal. We'll see.
I have to both agree and disagree with that statement bro. While it is almost impossible to teach it's not impossible to LEARN.
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Look, I think we should give him at least another year to prove himself.[/quote} agreed 110 percent 
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Perhaps Shurmur's insistence that he could not throw picks caused him to hold the ball longer and longer as the year went on? Then again, if he isn't being "checked," it could lead to a huge number of interceptions.
Perhaps Shurmurs idiotic offence would have made Peyton Manning look bad (and yes I believe it would have had as that bozo was just that bad}
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I don't think he is as accurate as most say he is.
I have no clue either as throwing 90 percent of your passes into a box doesn't allow you to give Weedon a fair shake, like it does to Shurmur sure has proved time and time again that he is an idiot.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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tab.....there was a post in this very thread that stated that Greco was at LG and Pinky at RG, w/Lava man backing up Pinky.
I am not saying that it will work out that way. Not at all. But man, it is in this very thread.
And it doesn't mean crap  You know just all as anybody that guys practice at different positions
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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He should have never been picked that high.
This much I definitely agree with.
DA deserves to get slammed, though. He did plenty of good, but there was plenty of bad as well. I will never forget the ball he threw into the dirt 4 yards in front of JJ and JJ was just so dumbfounded that he stopped dead in his tracks staring at the ball as it wobbled up to him and he glared at DA. That play and the 140mph fastballs he had, to me, epitomized his pathetic short game.
Ditto for Weeden, he's got a LOT of work to do, but where I think Weeden is ahead of DA is in the short game. One thing Weeden really needs to have fixed by like... tomorrow.. is his penchant for getting his passes batted back into his face. If he does that, and get faster at recognizing where he needs to go with the ball (and then does it), I think that he'll be Ok. The good news is that those things can be coached up, and they should improve simply from him being more comfortable back there and hopefully things slowing down for him.
If he does it... that'd rock, because then we're going to be Ok.
If he doesn't... well, we're likely picking Top 5 and getting a new QB. It's a year for evaluations, anyway...
Anderson played great one year then fell on his face and not just in Cleveland. Weeden was a rookie playing with many other rookies and second year players. I expected Weeden to struggle last year and he did, but I also saw him do some good things at time as well.
As of right now I do not know if Weeden is the final answer as starting QB, but I do believe he deserves every opportunity to prove himself as the starter. He does not need to put up huge numbers he only needs to win games and show everyone that they can win games with him at QB.
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Are you saying the 22nd pick in the draft should be a game manager? Not sure I agree w/that.
The guy is older. He needs to improve. I think he needs to be more than a game manager. We need a talent at qb. He deserves another shot, but settling for mediocrity at the qb position in today's NFL is not acceptable.
Personally, I don't have high hopes for him. He may improve a great deal this year. It's also just as likely he won't. Hard to say whether he becomes decent or not. But, what I really don't see is a guy who is going to become a QB who makes plays to get you in the playoffs and wins in the playoffs. Rather, I see a guy who throws the crucial pick in either scenario. And I am saying that w/the assumption that one day he will have a very good team around him.
Hope I am wrong. We'll see.
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Are you saying the 22nd pick in the draft should be a game manager? Not sure I agree w/that.
The guy is older. He needs to improve. I think he needs to be more than a game manager. We need a talent at qb. He deserves another shot, but settling for mediocrity at the qb position in today's NFL is not acceptable.
Personally, I don't have high hopes for him. He may improve a great deal this year. It's also just as likely he won't. Hard to say whether he becomes decent or not. But, what I really don't see is a guy who is going to become a QB who makes plays to get you in the playoffs and wins in the playoffs. Rather, I see a guy who throws the crucial pick in either scenario. And I am saying that w/the assumption that one day he will have a very good team around him.
Hope I am wrong. We'll see.
Oh my gosh this is doublespeak. I want to try to break this down, because, I just did and I STILL don't know what  you are trying to say.
" Hope I am wrong. We'll see," What is that line refering to?
Refering to the fact that some day he will have a good team around him, OR,
Refering to the prediction he is likely to throw a pick rather than make a play in both situation 1, a game that gets you to the playoffs, and situation 2, a playoff game to win.
( I hope he learns to make a play. )
" But what I really don't see is a guy who is going to become a Qb who makes plays to get you in the playoffs and wins in the playoffs. "
( Wow that is hard to understand.) hmm.
"But what I really don't see"
" But what I don't see"
But what I don't see is a guy who is going to become" hmm
" I don't see a guy who is going to "
I do see a guy who is Not going to... hmm
He is not going to. (whew)
become a QB who makes plays...
I Got It !
As You See It, He Can't develop into THE GUY, Even with a very good team around him, ( someday).
But you hope you're wrong!
( As I see it. The guy he is now, is just gonna have to make some freakin plays, or Campbell's gonna take his spot.)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Vers, I think he needs to make plays and be a game manager, meaning the players around him have got to make plays as well. I don't know if Weeden is going to become the type of QB we all would love to have, I don't know if he will ever be good enough to win us the playoff games, but I don't think he was put in position to succeed last year and feel he deserves a chance to play in a system that fits his talents.
If he fails in Chuds and Turner's offense then I would welcome a top 5 pick at QB to replace him. I just don't think that its fair to judge Weeden on last years performance. Lets remember that Gordon, Benjamin, Cooper were rookie WRs and Little and Cameron were second year players. We really don't know if these guys were running correct routs when some of these INT's happened. I am not putting the blame on the WRs alone, but to expect any rookie QB to succeed with rookie WRs is asking a bit much.
Weeden needed some leaders around him and there just was not any around. The addition of a seasoned vet like Bess is really going to help Weeden a lot, Bess is not going to run a five yard rout on 3rd and 9.
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