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My wife and I are considering taking our children out of the "progressive-style" public school systems and putting them in a "classical-style" setting instead. I am interested in if any DTers have considered (or done) a similar move or what thoughts some of you might have in the "progressive" vs. "classical" education debate. Here is one table that hits on some of the differences between them in an easy to read format: http://www.txcscopereview.com/2012/traditional-vs-cscopes-progressive-education/-------------------------------- There are alot of reasons we are considering it, but the tipping point is summed up pretty well here: Quote:
In the last 20 years this progressive movement has
continued to play out, with some new twists. Philosophical
relativism (no universal truths or moral standards) now reigns
without rival in the popular culture and in education. Its close
cousin, philosophical skepticism (nothing can be known with
certainty) also maintains a strong presence. As a result, we have
seen increasing antagonism for any viewpoint that challenges
this modern orthodoxy by daring to declare that any one fact or
ethic is actually true or normative. Early programs like “Values
Clarification” have continued and multiplied, programs which
assume and teach moral relativism. The only real sin in many
modern schools is to disagree with the notion that everyone
determines his own “truth” and his own morality.
This relativism has given rise to egalitarianism—that doctrine that no one can really
be superior to anyone else (which makes sense when there are no
universal standards). Egalitarianism in turn has resulted in grade
inflation, the lowering of academic standards (so everyone can
get an A) and a hesitancy to recognize outstanding achievement
http://www.geneva-school.org/Intro%20to%20Classical%20Education%20(CEP).pdf
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That comparison seems biased in its wording to me. But I imagine a progressive style education done in a public setting would stink. Almost as much as a classic education in a public setting stinks  As a somewhat informed, but childless dude in my 20's my opinions are pretty meaningless to parents But here they are anyways. My neighbor growing up was obsessed with cars, as was his dad. He wasn't very sharp and might have had a learning disability. He struggled in school the entire time he was there. When he was finally out ...guess what... he worked on cars. And now owns his own shop. Whole lot of good that education did him. I favor a progressive education in the sense that the kid is allowed to pursue their interests and can eschew anything else. Largely based on examples I have seen growing up where I saw education to simply be a boring form of babysitting and squandering of potentially productive capacities and interests. I don't plan on having kids. But if I do it is child-interests directed homeschooling all the way. Teaching as little state mandated stuff as possible so as to pass whatever requirements (unless the kid really wants to learn whatever it is) So my hunch is. Whether you choose progressive or traditional you are just wasting the kids time. 
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Legend
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That comparison is biased in it's wording at places though the only other sites I could find are also biased in one direction or the other. I see merits in both but I do see more benefit in the classical approach. I could also see it as being better in either approach on a child by child basis and we are going to revisit everything as we see how our children do with whichever direction we decide to go.
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the opposite of your example is someone wants to be an actor, athlete, dancer, or musician and they spend all of their formative education towards that end. if they suffer an injury that precludes them from achieving that goal or they just end up not being good enough for a career there, then they do not have a background to do even some of the more remedial mid-level jobs.
depth in an area is fantastic, but breadth is also important. IMO.
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great that you brought up the homeschooling aspect. there are social concerns and other factors to consider there, but you do get the most directed education through that system.
the school we are considered is actually a middle ground. it is 2 days a week at a school and 2-3 days at home (where my wife has to take classes to teach the information and the kids come home with a lesson-plan packet for those days everytime they come back from school).
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I don't see where a lot of those have to be mutually exclusive... but then the list, as others have pointed out, was developed by somebody who is obviously very anti-progressive...
I prefer the more classic approach but then you also don't need to totally ignore what we've learned about children, learning, teaching, etc over the last 50 years and some of that is embodied in the progressive... but I think those elements can be brought to the classic without abandoning what it's about...
Now that would be my ideal.. if I had to choose between the two, I'd take classic.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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I agree that as with most things, the best idea is to try to get them to work together.
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Are public schools automatically "progressive," and what institution(s) offer a "classical" education?
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you are being played for a fool....
believe in that stuff, and you will fulfill your destiny.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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You deserve respect for sending your kids to a school you prefer rather than trying to change the public school system to meet your specific needs and beliefs.
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Legend
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Quote:
Are public schools automatically "progressive," and what institution(s) offer a "classical" education?
Not at all. The public school my kids are in is. The one I went to as a kid was closer to classical actually.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
you are being played for a fool....
believe in that stuff, and you will fulfill your destiny.
Care to elaborate?
#gmstrong
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I agree that people interested in acting, dancing and music should be punished with years of education I want to second Rock. The concept that you are looking into changing your kids public education is pretty neat. I didn't even know that option existed. And you're not just harassing a teacher or going to PTA meetings  If you have the option I would consider asking your child which they prefer. Either before making the switch or a while after. And then weigh that against which you believe they benefited more from. I tend to think in terms of actual acquired knowledge schools are fairly useless beyond 5th grade, so I would go with things like teacher quality, child happiness, access to extra circulars, and convenience of transit.
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Thank you to you and rock. We are not quite decided yet but are leaning towards making the leap. We definitely will continue reevaluating things to make sure our choice is working out.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 05/18/13 12:57 AM.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Are public schools automatically "progressive," and what institution(s) offer a "classical" education?
Not at all. The public school my kids are in is. The one I went to as a kid was closer to classical actually.
How do you find out which schools are progressive and which are classical?
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Quote:
Quote:
you are being played for a fool....
believe in that stuff, and you will fulfill your destiny.
Care to elaborate?
I don't think that public schools are intentionally set up as progressive or classical from a philosophical approach. I think it is a bit of a false choice that has political undertones.
So, I think you need to go there..... yes there... abstinence education, evolution versus intelligent design and all the other hot buttons that are associated with the conservative movement to figure out if this is a real philosophy or a false choice.
I know that in Texas there is a movement to re-write a bit of our history to some of the not so pretty things about our past. I wonder if this is one of the groups pushing the revisionist history. You have to wonder when their first action is to "pray"
Quite honestly, I have a masters degree, and it took me three times to read that wording even to begin to comprehend what is being stated. That is a red flag to me.. I look at overly wordy things as being not necessary to make a point.
Last edited by ChargerDawg; 05/18/13 11:30 AM.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Yes, It is a Christian school (as are most private schools). Those questions do need to be asked and were among others.
I'm not worried about my school preaching abstinence. It is not their job to teachmykids about sex. I can handle those discussions.
They teach evolution in science class and creation in theology. Yes, you can believe in both. I do.
No, they are not pushing for any rewrites of history. I have gone through several texts from several subjects and they are about what I had (with obvious more texas history thanohio).
The teaching at the public school is what caused us to look around. We prefer a focus in this style and it does not seem to be in line with our public school.
Also, understand that praying for most Christians its similar to reflecting for others. Saying to pray is their way of saying to take some time to make sure this is the right option foryour family.
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I believe there can be religious based education that strikes a balance that is healthy.
I have a friend that works in the administration of such a school.
I also have knowledge of others that pulled their kids from school to provide them "faith based home schooling". I would consider them ill equipped to provide such an education at any level, and I have little doubt that the children would be far better off in a public school.
What they are effectively doing is ruining their children's lives.
That is why I asked you about those difficult questions... It does provide some insight as to their approach.
I still have a problem with the characterization of classical versus progressive education. I think it has bias built into the concept.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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No worries. One of the reasons I posted this is to make sure I didn't miss any questions to ask as this is obviously a pretty serious decision.
We have also asked about test scores, college admittance rates, talked with students who have graduated, those still in school, et cetera. In the end, this particular school is a private school that happens to give parents the lesson plans to do at home for 1/2 of the time for elementary students (until middle school, when it becomes a full private schooling and the parents are merely the guidance counselors helping pick out the classes --- that transition was one reason we liked it).
As far as progressive vs. classical, I understand there are some political overtones to the terms (as I couldn't find just a non-biased source on either despite both having some positive aspects).
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