Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 1
K
kwhip Offline OP
Dawg Talker
OP Offline
Dawg Talker
K
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 1
Brandon Weeden, Cleveland Browns' offense poised to surprise

By Bucky Brooks
Analyst, NFL.com and NFL Network
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...sed-to-surprise

Hit the link for the video clips.

The Cleveland Browns' offense has been short on surprises in recent years. The unit has finished among the NFL's worst in each of the past three seasons, ranking a dismal 25th in total offense (and averaging just 18.9 points per game) in 2012.

Such woes certainly should have been expected, given that Cleveland, which was fielding the third-youngest roster in the NFL a season ago, wound up getting a combined 87 starts out of its rookies. Moreover, first-year starters included the quarterback (Brandon Weeden), running back (Trent Richardson) and No. 1 receiver (Josh Gordon) -- which is to say, the core of their offense.

Of course, it also should've been expected that the following bold proclamation from Gordon would raise eyebrows:

"Defenses will be shocked, to say the least, with how much we're running downfield," Gordon recently told the Akron Beacon Journal.

Folks will be forgiven for doubting both Gordon's excitement and expectations that new head coach Rob Chudzinski and coordinator Norv Turner will establish an "attack" mentality in Cleveland. However, after studying the marriage between personnel and scheme, I think the Browns might be on to something.

Here are four reasons to believe Cleveland will take off in 2013:

1) Trent Richardson will be the bedrock of the offense.

For all of the credit Turner gets for his innovative passing game, he is a run-first play caller who prefers to build his offense around a dynamic running back.

In his accomplished career as a head coach and offensive coordinator, Turner's systems have produced the NFL's leading rusher five times: Emmitt Smith (1991-93), Ricky Williams (2002) and LaDainian Tomlinson (2007). Turner prefers a downhill running game built upon the lead draw and power, which allow his running backs to hit the hole with their shoulders square at the point of attack. This reduces the number of negative runs, while also setting the table for a lethal play-action passing game built around downhill run fakes and vertical routes.

In Richardson, Turner inherits a dynamic young runner who has the strength, power and physicality to excel between the tackles, as well as the quickness and burst to get to the edges. Although a host of nagging injuries prevented him from maximizing his potential as a rookie, Richardson still managed to rush for 950 yards and 11 rushing touchdowns in 15 games last season. Most importantly, he showed the stamina and fortitude to handle a heavy workload as the team's primary ball carrier. Richardson notched at least 17 rushing attempts in nine games, including a stretch of five straight in the middle of the season in which he carried the ball 20 times or more.

Thinking about how Turner might want to use Richardson leads me to believe the Browns will feature the draw and power from a variety of one- and two-back formations. The utilization of one-back sets will eliminate some of the clutter in the box, while the traditional two-back formations will give Richardson an escort between the tackles. As far as using the draw, Richardson is a patient runner with the vision, anticipation and instincts to find creases in the middle. The delayed handoff slows the linebackers who are attacking the box, allowing the Browns' blockers to lock on to defenders in the hole.

In the video clip above, taken from the Browns' Week 3 game against the Buffalo Bills, Richardson scores a 6-yard touchdown on a draw. He slide-steps to his right before taking the handoff and finding a crease on the backside. Most impressively, he slips out of a pair of tackles in the backfield on the way to the end zone. Richardson should be very comfortable with what I expect will become one of the bread-and-butter plays of the offense, given Turner's penchant for those kinds of runs.

Richardson is also adept at running the Power-O play between the tackles, which is another play that requires patience. The running back is instructed to take delayed steps or counter steps to give his lead blockers (the back-side guard and fullback) enough time to get into the hole.

The clip to the right shows Richardson running the Power-O against the Pittsburgh Steelers in Week 12. Notice how he patiently takes his counter steps before following the path of the guard through the hole. Most young runners lack the discipline to wait for their blockers, but Richardson already has shown he has the poise to let plays develop. This should help him notch big gains in Turner's system.

2) Brandon Weeden is a perfect fit for Norv Turner's vertical attack.

Turner has earned a sterling reputation for developing quarterbacks throughout his career. Utilizing an intricate passing game that features a variety of timing-based vertical routes, Turner helped Troy Aikman garner Hall of Fame accolades with the Dallas Cowboys and transformed Philip Rivers into a perennial Pro Bowler with the San Diego Chargers.

In Turner's system, the quarterback is instructed to quickly work to the top of his drop (normally a five-step drop) and throw the ball to a designated spot on the field. The quarterbacks who are most effective in this system are those who can let the ball go without hesitation, anticipating the open window and trusting their receiver to get to the spot. Additionally, the emphasis on the vertical portion of the route tree requires quarterbacks to possess above-average arm strength. Passers must be able to connect on the comeback and the "Bang-8" (skinny post) on the outside. When thrower and catcher are in sync on the perimeter, the intricate timing and rhythm of this passing game makes it nearly impossible to defend against.

To execute effectively within those parameters, a quarterback must have a strong arm, unshakeable confidence and superb anticipation. Both of the Browns' starting quarterback candidates -- Weeden and Jason Campbell -- have shown glimpses of these skills.

Weeden flashed fine potential as a first-year starter in 2012, completing 57.6 percent of his passes for 3,385 yards with a 14:17 touchdown-to-interception ratio. Those numbers might not pop off the page at first glance, but it should be noted that he averaged 34.5 attempts for an offense that, in addition to lacking experienced players on the perimeter, was routinely in "catch-up mode." Weeden constantly faced exotic blitzes and stacked coverages that were designed to force hurried throws and take away the downfield passing game.

After breaking down Weeden's performance as a rookie, I came away impressed with his arm strength, awareness and anticipation. He can make every throw in the book with zip and velocity. Most importantly, Weeden will let the ball go on time, trusting his receivers to get to their designated spots down the field. In the video clip to the right, from the Browns' Week 15 loss to the Washington Redskins, Weeden does just that on a superb throw down the sideline to Travis Benjamin. After fielding the snap from the shotgun, Weeden quickly reads the safety hanging on the hash in "quarters" and takes the deep shot down the boundary to Benjamin against one-on-one coverage.

These are the kinds of throws that Weeden will be asked to routinely make in Turner's system, which plays to his strengths as a playmaker from the pocket.

Weeden also shows promise as an efficient passer on play-action passes. He is clever with his ball handling and fakes in the backfield, and displays impeccable timing, getting the ball out of his hands quickly after the set-up. This is an overlooked aspect of quarterback play, but one that is critical to success in Turner's system. Given the fact that the Browns will build their game plan around Richardson's dynamic running skills, the utilization of play fakes should create big-play opportunities for Weeden downfield, assuming opposing linebackers and safeties will be lured to the line of scrimmage to stop the run.

This was a part of the Browns' game plan a season ago, but it will become a focal point with Turner taking over the offensive controls. The video clip to the right, from the Browns' Week 7 matchup against the Indianapolis Colts, showcases Weeden's effectiveness in the play-action game. He takes the snap and fakes a stretch handoff to his left before executing a half-bootleg rollout to set up deep in the pocket. The perfectly executed play fake induces an overreaction from the Colts' front seven, leaving Gordon in a favorable one-on-one matchup on the right. Weeden makes a pinpoint back-shoulder throw away from the defender for an easy 33-yard touchdown.

With Turner slated to implement a vertical passing game that should play to Weeden's strengths as a passer, I expect the Browns' quarterback to make significant strides.

3) Josh Gordon and Greg Little could form an impressive 1-2 punch.

If the Browns are going to field an explosive offense in 2013, the young receiving tandem of Gordon and Little will play an instrumental role. Each receiver is an intriguing talent with the combination of speed, athleticism and skill that coaches covet in playmakers on the perimeter. They should be key to Turner's offense, which places an emphasis on getting the ball to big, athletic players in space.

Gordon, a second-year pro from Baylor, showed glimpses of immense talent and potential in 2012, finishing with 50 receptions for 805 yards and five touchdowns. Most impressively, he averaged 16.1 yards per catch and amassed 12 receptions of 20-plus yards. Those are strong numbers for a rookie wideout, particularly one who joined the team relatively late following his selection in the supplemental draft last July.

Looking at the tape, I believe Gordon is an explosive athlete with sneaky speed and acceleration -- an excellent deep-ball playmaker with a knack for sneaking past defenders on vertical routes. Although he still needs to refine his route-running skills, he is such a talented athlete that he consistently finds a way to create separation. Considering the additional repetitions and tutelage he'll get in offseason workouts, I expect that Gordon could develop into a solid No. 1 receiver in Cleveland.

Little is also a dynamic pass catcher with outstanding speed and running skills who excels at making things happen with the ball in his hands. The Browns started to capitalize on those skills in 2012 by routinely getting him the ball on the move, and Little started to show more polish and consistency as a route runner. He utilizes various stems and change-of-pace moves to create space from defenders out of the break. Additionally, he started to show better hands and ball skills in traffic.

In the video clip to the right, from the Browns' matchup against the Colts, Little puts it all together. Aligned on the right prior to the snap, he sneaks past the defense on a short post route, then displays outstanding concentration while pulling down a high ball in the shadow of the goal post for a 14-yard score. Little can expand Weeden's strike zone with his athleticism and ball skills, and the Browns could use him as a primary weapon in the red zone.

This offense struggled to score points last season; the identification of a dependable playmaker could pay huge dividends in 2013.

4) Jordan Cameron is the X-factor to the Browns' offensive success.

For all of the attention that is given to running backs and receivers in Turner's scheme, the presence of a dangerous tight end in the middle of the field could take the Browns' offense to another level. This is an aspect of Turner's scheme that goes largely unnoticed, despite the illustrious careers of Jay Novacek (in Dallas) and Antonio Gates (in San Diego) under Turner's direction.

With his unique combination of athleticism and ball skills, Cameron could assume the role of between-the-hashes difference-maker in Cleveland. As a former collegiate basketball player (Cameron played basketball at BYU before transferring to USC to play football), he has a knack for using his body to create separation from defenders. Additionally, he is a terrific pass catcher with a penchant for pulling down tough grabs in crowds. This should be a huge asset to Weeden, because it will give him a safe, dependable receiver to target in the middle of the field.

With defenses forced to decide between using eight-man fronts to stop Richardson or some form of two-deep coverage to defend Little and Gordon, the area between the hashes should be vulnerable to frequent tosses to Cameron. Based on his impressive physical tools, that could lead to more big plays from the Browns' passing game.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
A
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
We can only hope. I try to stay positive, but we see articles like this every off season. That being said, something does feel different this year.

Last edited by Arps; 05/29/13 07:07 AM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,115
Likes: 134
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,115
Likes: 134
I watched the vids and yeah, they were the most exciting plays from last year.. Problem was, that was about it.

If they can find a way to just do that on a consistent basis, then yeah, we got something.. I sure hope they do.


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,838
Likes: 107
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,838
Likes: 107
Sounds like deja vu all over again. We had some big plays last season. but they were too few and too rare for a majority of wins. I would love to see the smokin', attackin' offense going vertical compared to the fer crap playcalling we had with Shurmy.
Go ahead, make me cheer! I dare you.


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
This all sounds wonderful, but I have a few points of contention.

Quote:

Turner prefers a downhill running game built upon the lead draw and power, which allow his running backs to hit the hole with their shoulders square at the point of attack. This reduces the number of negative runs



That doesn't sound like TRich to me. He isn't very decisive. In fact, the author later mentioned TRich's patience a couple of times. TRich did not demonstrate the decisive, quick, one-cut to the hole ability last year.


Quote:

After breaking down Weeden's performance as a rookie, I came away impressed with his arm strength, awareness and anticipation. He can make every throw in the book with zip and velocity. Most importantly, Weeden will let the ball go on time, trusting his receivers to get to their designated spots down the field.



Did this guy really study Weeden? Awareness? Anticipation? Letting the ball go on time? Sheesh...these were probably his three biggest weaknesses.


Quote:

With his unique combination of athleticism and ball skills, Cameron could assume the role of between-the-hashes difference-maker in Cleveland. As a former collegiate basketball player (Cameron played basketball at BYU before transferring to USC to play football), he has a knack for using his body to create separation from defenders. Additionally, he is a terrific pass catcher with a penchant for pulling down tough grabs in crowds. This should be a huge asset to Weeden, because it will give him a safe, dependable receiver to target in the middle of the field.



I hear a lot of hype about this guy, but I really can't seem to remember him making many catches. The guy is saying he has a penchant for pulling down tough grabs in crowds and will be a dependable target? Wait a second........let me look something up.

Back---------Jordan has 26 catches in two years. Averages around 10 yds. a catch. Has 1 TD. Dependable, indeed.

Bet this author won't be called a bozo, but I'm sure I will get ripped for "not knowing football" because I question some of the things this "expert" wrote about.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Quote:

Bet this author won't be called a bozo...



But Vers, it's NFL.com/NFL Network so they have to pump the hype/PR. You know, it's the same place Lombardi came from...j/k


When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
Are you saying they write gushing pieces like this for every team because of marketing reasons?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Quote:

Are you saying they write gushing pieces like this for every team because of marketing reasons?



Not necessarily, but they do have a vested interest to promote the game, rather than being unduly negative...


When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,768
Likes: 1341
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,768
Likes: 1341
Quote:


Not necessarily, but they do have a vested interest to promote the game, rather than being unduly negative...




Which can often lead to slight fabrications that seem unduly positive.



Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528
Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528
Likes: 6
After reading that, your farts may produce rainbows and leprachauns lol. Some i definitely agree with. Richardson is a very patient back and some times it is to damn patient especially when you are needing a foot and he is looking for a hole to gain a mile. I think he will stud out especially with his skills as a receiver in a system that should be able to put him in many one on one situations. Remember DA overthrowing everyone with no defender within 20 yards?

Weeden is great at throwing to the spot, that is what he did in college. He does lack the anticipation right now but to be fair these guys had never worked together and they were learning the system as well as learning each other. Last years timing based offense will help in that area going forward.

Little was a beast down the stretch. Honestly, if Weeden did a better job, Little was a 1200 yard receiver last year. There was a lot of wide open plays that for some reason went ignored. Through the first 6 games, Little sucked. Last 10, he studed out.

Gordon was a stud early but he sure wore down fast at the end of the season. Lets fact it, if the guy dedicates himself, he can be ELITE. Now having the tools and having the dedication are two vastly different things. The jury is out but everyone is excited about this kid for a reason.

TE I like Cameron but I dont trust him to stay healthy. I dont think we are finished with this position.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
P
PDR Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
If Jordan Cameron is #4 on your list, and your list isn't 'positions that should be upgraded'...

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124
Likes: 222
W
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
W
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124
Likes: 222
I'm no Xs & Os guy...but for what it's worth:

I could never understand why we didn't utilize the delayed-handoff play more often last year. Maybe it was the Bud Light, but it seemed to be an effective play for us that was not used enough.

I also thought we did not try to play-action enough. I understand that we would have to have a threatening running game to make this effective, but how much extra time does it take to play-action fake? This author found Weeden to be good at it when we did run it. Who knows?

I'd like Weeden to learn the Ben Roethlispuke pump fake. With deeper drops on the agenda, a very good pass-blocking line, and a cannon like Weeden's...he needs to add that to the mix.

I have a lot of confidence that Gordon & Little will be what we need at WR...I have enough confidence in Weeden to give it another year and Campbell could be decent-enough in this offense and for this year if need be...I have very little confidence in our TE's.

I can get on board with the eotab-like positive vibe...but I can also get on board with the let's-wait-and-see-if-they-can-actually-do-it-in-a-game-vibe that vers has mastered on here.

We certainly haven't been this well-positioned for offensive success in a very long time.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839
Likes: 11
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839
Likes: 11
I'll be impressed if both Gordon and Little even come close to 1000 yard receiving.. Gordon has all the potential in the world, but if LITTLE gets 1000.. then kudos to Norv for getting the offense going.


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:

If Jordan Cameron is #4 on your list, and your list isn't 'positions that should be upgraded'...



Yeah, I found it interesting that they made room for Cameron but not a single mention of the real strength of the offense-- the O-line. JT has been the model of consistency for 6 years now, Mack is a good center, Schwartz was one of the top 2 rookie tackles last year along with Kalil, and depending on who you believe, we have at least one good guard in the mix somewhere.

If the Browns get even average play from the QB and skill positions, this will be a good offense.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
It's all talk, all just words until we can finally see the product on the field.

I am getting extremely anxious to see both offense and defense, that I do know lol.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
A
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
A
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Of course. If they suck, it's no suprise. If they manage to score more points, it'll be a surprise.

You're usually not spoken of if you're poised to disappooint again.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839
Likes: 11
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839
Likes: 11
I think they put Cameron on there bc Chud loves his TE's. So essentially, if Cameron gets the starting spot, he could be a great asset to our offense. We already know he has the ability. Now he just needs the playing time, and to get the ball.


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
jc

here is some old USC banter about Cameron;

Jordan Cameron looks like a tight end now.

He's wearing No. 84 instead of No. 23. He's carrying 250 pounds on his 6-foot-5 frame. And his blocking, while still a work in progress, is much improved.

Cameron's eight-catch, 96-yard performance in USC's Sunday scrimmage was no fluke. His transition from wide receiver to tight end is past the experimental stage.

The former varsity basketball player at BYU looks like a real football player now.

"He had a great offseason," USC coach Lane Kiffin said. "He's really bought in to playing tight end."

Cameron never had trouble with the pass-catching portion of the job. But, as Kiffin noted, Cameron's blocking "was a disaster in the spring."

When he first moved to tight end, Cameron weight about 220 pounds. He described himself as "weak" and "looking like a duckling out there." But under the supervision of new strength coach Aaron Ausmus, Cameron got bigger and stronger -- without sacrificing his speed or vertical jump.

(For proof, look no further than Cameron's 39-yard reception Sunday. He caught a pass in the right flat, spun away from would-be tackler T.J. McDonald and sprinted to the 3-yard line.)

He also has responded well to ramped-up competition. Cameron basically had no competition in spring. Rhett Ellison was out, Blake Ayles had a variety of injuries and freshmen Xavier Grimble, Randall Telfer and Christian Thomas -- who all look like ready-made NFL players -- hadn't arrived yet.

Now the tight end battle is a six-man scrum.

"There's only two ways to go," Cameron, a fifth-year senior, said of the competition. "You can shy from it or you can get better. I'm trying to get better. My goal here is to play, and this competition is making me better. These guys are really good."

So is Cameron, who at worst is carving a role as the pass-catching half of a TE platoon with expert blocker Ellison.

"He wants to play," quarterback Matt Barkley said of Cameron. "Whatever way that is, whether that's lining up in the backfield or splitting out to receiver or playing tight end, he wants reps."


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/strong-473407-cameron-usc.html


GO BROWNS!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
I'm pretty sure Millcreek's account got hacked. There are no unprompted political smacks in that post.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
P
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
not sure if I can take any more surprises. last time I heard that Holmgren said it about the west coast offence. Surprise is not the word I would have used. more like shocked.


being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Likes: 26
BpG Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Likes: 26
From really terrible to slightly not terrible, surprise!

We lost a couple of close games to bonehead coaching the past two years, that alone will prove surprising to people outside Ohio.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Quote:

The Cleveland Browns' offense has been short on surprises in recent years.



That's not true, we scored more than 20 points 5 times last year... SURPRISE!!!!!


yebat' Putin
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
the Brian Daboll tackles-wide TD pass to Alex Smith was pretty sweet.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
I believe that Weeden's main problem was the complexity of the WCO and him not knowing exactly what he wanted to do at times. That coupled with a growth curve that flattened after Shurmur blasted him in the media about preventing interceptions. And a lack of shotgun plays which plays to his strengths.

I think Shurmur and his coaching really did Weeden a disservice.

This was a rosy column that focused on the positive. But Weeden does have positives that you refuse to consider from his rookie year.

1. He's a top 10 arm talent in the NFL.
2. Weeden had a 79 rating from the shotgun his rookie year.
3. He can fire the intermediate post route like DA but can also hit checkdowns unlike DA.

It's logical to be positive about Weeden this year in the new system.

It's illogical to bash and bash and bash a rookie QB for mistakes when the vast majority of his weapons were first and second year players making mistakes right along with him.

Did you ever stop to consider that part of the problem was receivers running the wrong routes or not getting proper depth on routes or not recognizing hot route responsibilities?


[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Quote:

Did you ever stop to consider that part of the problem was receivers running the wrong routes or not getting proper depth on routes or not recognizing hot route responsibilities?



Hel, this has been hypothesized for every single struggling QB we've had in the last 15 years... to deflect some of the blame onto the WRs, the system, the coaches, the youth, the lack of running game, etc... I'm not saying it's not true now and I'm not even saying that some of our past QBs couldn't have been a lot better if some of those things were better...

The new staff allegedly has a plan that suits our players better, Weeden has a year under his belt, as do Little and Gordon, Bess is a veteran, the TEs have another year, the OL is in pretty good shape, if Richardson can stay healthy we should be able to run the ball better... I'm optimistic and hope that it all comes together and Weeden takes a big step forward... but if the offense fails to come together and take big strides, Weeden is going to take the brunt of the blame.. fact of life.


yebat' Putin
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946
Likes: 763
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946
Likes: 763
Quote:

Quote:

Did you ever stop to consider that part of the problem was receivers running the wrong routes or not getting proper depth on routes or not recognizing hot route responsibilities?



Hel, this has been hypothesized for every single struggling QB we've had in the last 15 years... to deflect some of the blame onto the WRs, the system, the coaches, the youth, the lack of running game, etc... I'm not saying it's not true now and I'm not even saying that some of our past QBs couldn't have been a lot better if some of those things were better...






It's true until it isn't true any longer.
When we're constantly changing schemes, and coaches, and players, etc... ad nauseum, you're never going to get anything settled. SOME DAY we'll actually change the one thing we haven't changed.... which is to stop freaking changing everything every two years, and we might actually gain some traction and be able to truly objectively evaluate things.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398
Likes: 280
Can I get an AMEN?!?!?!


yebat' Putin
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
N
Legend
Offline
Legend
N
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Quote:

objectively evaluate things




no matter the stability, I don't see this happening


#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
Quote:

Did you ever stop to consider that part of the problem was receivers running the wrong routes or not getting proper depth on routes or not recognizing hot route responsibilities?




Of course I did. And I am sure it happened. I am sure they ran a lot of poor routes. I am sure they didn't make sight adjustments and hot reads on many occasions. So, do you wanna go back and bash the author for praising our WRs? Oh wait, Heckert brought those guys in too.....Can't do that. LOL

Let go of your hate for a bit and think. Btw----did you really send my pm to you to other posters? LOL......there was a reason it was private. What a man, you are. Hey----look guys at what Vers wrote.

Anyway.......of course the WRs lack of experience and intelligence hurt Weeden. However, in my OPINION, Weeden had issues of his own. When I went to the games, I saw receivers open. Weeden did not. There were a couple of games on TV where you could see certain routes develop and our WRs breaking wide open, but Weeden never showed a glimpse of anticipation, and would check it down. To make matters worse, he made BS excuses later. You had announcers like Gannon and Martz ripping him....and man.....that is unusual. They were appalled by how terrible his field vision was.

So yeah, Mr. Football......I have considered--and accepted--that the WRs deserve part of the blame. I was the first one on the other board to say that Shumur's comments about not throwing picks would hurt him. No one else was even thinking about that at the time, and I am almost certain it was the same over here.

Yes, he does have some excuses, however he also sucked in his own right. You can prance around here telling people I don't know football and sending them private messages, but that doesn't change the truth. It might delay it......but, it doesn't change it.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,567
Likes: 147
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,567
Likes: 147
Quote:

I believe that Weeden's main problem was the complexity of the WCO and him not knowing exactly what he wanted to do at times. That coupled with a growth curve that flattened after Shurmur blasted him in the media about preventing interceptions. And a lack of shotgun plays which plays to his strengths.

I think Shurmur and his coaching really did Weeden a disservice.

This was a rosy column that focused on the positive. But Weeden does have positives that you refuse to consider from his rookie year.

1. He's a top 10 arm talent in the NFL.
2. Weeden had a 79 rating from the shotgun his rookie year.
3. He can fire the intermediate post route like DA but can also hit checkdowns unlike DA.

It's logical to be positive about Weeden this year in the new system.

It's illogical to bash and bash and bash a rookie QB for mistakes when the vast majority of his weapons were first and second year players making mistakes right along with him.

Did you ever stop to consider that part of the problem was receivers running the wrong routes or not getting proper depth on routes or not recognizing hot route responsibilities?




HEL YEA!!!


Let this sink in..... On 12-31-23 it be will 123123.
On the flip side, you can tune a piano but you can't tune-a-fish.


Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558
Likes: 814
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558
Likes: 814
Quote:

I think Shurmur and his coaching really did Weeden a disservice.






I agree, Rat Shurmer was a joke. Without a question the least equipped head coach this team has ever had.


That guy was coaching for his job and threw Weeden under the bus. He had the guy afraid to play the game. That isn't coaching your guys up.


We gain 2-3 wins simply by not having that simpleton around.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,719
Likes: 174
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,719
Likes: 174
Quote:

We can only hope. I try to stay positive, but we see articles like this every off season. That being said, something does feel different this year.




Something certainly does feel different: Our new owner and a few of his employees are in hot water.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Just to let you know I received quite a few PMs in support from long time posters here. I told a couple of them about you private messaging me and using profanity. But I didn't forward the messages in full.

You so badly want to be the BMOC here. Well guess what...a lot of people know their football here and can debate you successfully strictly with football discussions. Once that happens, and people disagree with your position, you go into your personal tirades and it makes you look like a petulant child.

I love this btw...

Quote:

I was the first one on the other board to say that Shumur's comments about not throwing picks would hurt him. No one else was even thinking about that at the time, and I am almost certain it was the same over here.






You are so astute! Your astuteness even amazes yourself!

50% of me wishes you'd hang your keyboard up. The other 50% of me would miss you.

Type away BMOC!


[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Quote:

I agree, Rat Shurmer was a joke.



Well he certainly was ineffectual, but to call him "rat" is more than a disservice, it is insulting. I really don't think he deserved that moniker, 'peen....


When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558
Likes: 814
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558
Likes: 814
I like both of you. It would please me if Ya'll found a way to end this on your own time.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528
Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528
Likes: 6
Just a general reply.

This is an incredibly young team, especially on offense. These kids played hard every game out last year and was in pretty much every game untilt he final whistle. What I felt was missing wasn't talent nor horrible coaching although I disagreed with a lot of Shurmur's decision. I felt we were missing experience and chemistry.

Under Chud and Norv we will get better coaching, (i think both are just brilliant). These kids are more experienced. The chemistry lacking was due to Weeden not fitting the scheme and just so much youth and inexperience.

I really feel this roster is better suited for Chud's offense especially Weeden and Richardson than it was for Shurmur and Chilly. There was a reason Chud had the Browns in 5 primetime games. Hell we havent had 5 since he left lol.

I am excited to see what these kids can do and I have very little confidence in Weeden but I also believe that his backup will either push him to be better or push him to the side. I like Campbell and think this team would compete for the playoffs with him at the helm.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941
Likes: 69
Quote:

....you private messaging me and using profanity



'peen: Personally, I would be shocked if that was actually the case. I have to date seen nothing in your posts that would lead me to believe this to be factual. Say it ain't so, bro....


When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 27
O
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
O
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 27
Quote:

Quote:

....you private messaging me and using profanity



'peen: Personally, I would be shocked if that was actually the case. I have to date seen nothing in your posts that would lead me to believe this to be factual. Say it ain't so, bro....




You might want to go back and look who Heldawg is responding to...

Last edited by CribbsHero; 05/29/13 10:11 PM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,606
Likes: 239
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,606
Likes: 239
Quote:



Weeden is great at throwing to the spot, that is what he did in college.
\





no offense but that's false...

The kid didn't even have a playbook in college. How could he possibly throw to a spot if he didn't know where the WR was going to be? all the offense was designed to do was throw to the open guy.
I guess you could say... he knew that one WR was running a go route and one was running a crossing pattern but none of them were timing plays. that's what killed him in the NFL last year.

I agree with everything else you had to say


Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 1
K
kwhip Offline OP
Dawg Talker
OP Offline
Dawg Talker
K
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 1
Quote:

Just a general reply.

This is an incredibly young team, especially on offense. These kids played hard every game out last year and was in pretty much every game untilt he final whistle. What I felt was missing wasn't talent nor horrible coaching although I disagreed with a lot of Shurmur's decision. I felt we were missing experience and chemistry.

Under Chud and Norv we will get better coaching, (i think both are just brilliant). These kids are more experienced. The chemistry lacking was due to Weeden not fitting the scheme and just so much youth and inexperience.

I really feel this roster is better suited for Chud's offense especially Weeden and Richardson than it was for Shurmur and Chilly. There was a reason Chud had the Browns in 5 primetime games. Hell we havent had 5 since he left lol.

I am excited to see what these kids can do and I have very little confidence in Weeden but I also believe that his backup will either push him to be better or push him to the side. I like Campbell and think this team would compete for the playoffs with him at the helm.




That was a pretty good fluff piece, wasn't it. LOL. But it's also true. The writer should have gone 5 deep and mentioned how big BESS will be for this offense.

For those mentioning the OL. Other than TE since Cameron is in fact the question mark, the OL may just be our weakest link. You read that right. Outside of a top notch tandem at Tackle and a solid center, our Guard play is going to be the biggest question mark going into the season. We MUST be able to run the ball better than we have in order for Turner to be able to do his thing.

I'm pretty confident that outside of a potentially needed QB next year if Weed's fails, we'll be addressing the TE and Guard spots next year.

I'm not the least bit surprised that a writer that actually LOOKS at this team comes up with a piece like this. And I mean look deep at this team. There's alot of talent all over the place here. Now comes the good part.

COACHING and specifically Chudzinski.

This is why I say we are on our way folks. Chud's here to stay. He's at the TOP of the food chain and he wants to go NOWHERE but Cleveland. Unless he totally is overwhelmed and bombs out (Which I'd bet the house doesn't happen), he's here for a long ass time. And it's HIM who wants an Attack-Style both offensively and defensively. That's why we are set up for big things going forward.

When Horton finally gets a HCing gig, Chud's gonna keep the D going with someone else running the same exact thing tweeked a bit. I still say watch for Cioffi to take over for him when he leaves. Sure Cioffi could follow Horton but I'm betting he takes over HERE and keeps this going.

And I really don't see Turner getting another HCing gig at his age with his past record. And even if he did I could easily see CHUD taking the Offense under his own wing. Yet again keeping it going.

This all bodes well for us going forward whether we determine we need a QB or not. Weeden will have some huge games this year. Consistency is the key to our winning. If we need a QB we'll get one and be able to concentrate on adding pieces to what we have now. Thank HECKERT for that.

TE, OG, ILB, CB, S will be pieces we will attack next year.

Page 1 of 2 1 2
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden & Offense Poised to Surprise

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5