DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 3 Browns who hold the teams playoff fate other than the QB.

Any playoff team has a core of players who play at a high level from game 1 to 16
other than the QB in order to make the playoffs a possibility.
I felt 3 was a safe and fair number and obviously their can be more.
But here are 3 that need to play at a elite level to give the Browns a playoff chance.

1. Paul Kruger. He was paid mega millions to plant QBs in the turf. This game is about throwing the ball and negating passing attacks.
anything less than 10 sacks and 30 QB pressures I would consider a failure.
The Browns haven't had a feared pass rusher since Jamir Miller.
to sum up the Browns woes since 1999. They haven't landed a franchise QB or found a feared pass rusher on the other side of the ball.
and Kruger needs to be a force right away and not wait till the 2nd half of the season to compile garbage sacks aka Sheard.

2. The Guards(Greco and ?)
Defenses had no trouble getting a push up the middle. The Browns running game
could not get on track between the OGs in 2012.
It was rare the Browns o-line was able to dominate in the run game and impose its will. There was flashes but that was about it.
and this was a offense that did run alot vs 8 in the box.
the Browns are rock solid at OTs and Mack is consistant. Cameron needs to be able to block but the OGs need to elevate their game and be more punishing.

3. Greg Little.
I feel Josh Gordon will be a future All Pro. He will get his 1,000 yards this year.
But Greg Little needs to make defenses pay for rolling coverage toward Gordon.
Little has underperformed IMO 2 years.
he's a great blocker. But he hasn't been able to become into a end zone threat by any means.
He averages a TD every 19 catches. That has to improve.
His hands have gotten better. But he really needs to be a go to guy in the red zone.

I came up with

Trent Richardson
TJ Ward
Jabal Sheard

Ehhh

Those are good choices, but I'd have a tough time narrowing it down to three players. We have so many uncertainties that many players come to mind to me ...


1. Sheard's transition to OLB? If he's effective, we would be MUCH better off because we'd have some serious pass rushing ability from all over.

2. Buster Skrine/Chris Owens/Leon McFadden ... or whoever wins the #2 CB Job.

3. Bademosi/Gipson ... or whoever wins the FS job.

4. Can Cameron be an effective, consistent threat at TE?

5. Can Trent stay healthy and prove to be an elite back?

6. Will the apparent upgrade at the WR position hold true? Can Bess/Nelson prove to be the upgrades we assume they will be? Can Gordon/Little continue to progress and blossom?

7. Can our guard play hold up?


There are just so many questions that need to be answered for us.

The playoffs are a pipe dream until we are able to win our division, it's as simple as that. And we won't be able to do that, by constantly having sub par drafts. Just like this year, the other teams in out division got grades of A- B+ & B+ to our C-

And asking guys to change positions doesn't get it, because the majority of the time it fails. We are asking four or more guys to do just that and especially when it's the sixth pick of the first round in the draft.

We should have taken the trade and used all of our picks to fill the 8+ holes we had on the team. Banner and Lombardi were not the answer to our problems, but could well end up adding even more to it

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The playoffs are a pipe dream until we are able to win our division, it's as simple as that. And we won't be able to do that, by constantly having sub par drafts. Just like this year, the other teams in out division got grades of A- B+ & B+ to our C-

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Not trying to derail this thread, but how do you know this draft was subpar?. If 3 years down the road we only have one draftee on the team them yes, it will have been sub par. If we end up with 3 hall of famers, then it will be the greatest draft of all time. Lets give it a couple years before we declare this draft a bust, or any draft for that matter.

Nice topic.

1. Trent Richardson- Keeping defenses honest w/ solid running game.
2. Joe Haden- Needs to continue to show he can be that shut down corner against elite WRs.
3. Kruger/ Bryant (tie)- Must get pressure on QBs. Interested to see Horton's pressure using DEs like Bryant.


I think some units are important as well, maybe even more important than a singular player- particularly offensive line.

You need your most talented guys to be playmakers. I think everyone is looking at this all wrong with their selections. The Bademosi's / Gipsons of the world aren't going to make or break us nor will the guys filling the positions where we are weak nor will the guys who are #2s like Little.

We need Haden, Gordon, and Richardson to truly be special. We will make the playoffs if that happens.

Your best guys have to be your best guys not on the team...but in comparison to the rest of the league.

And no matter what anyone says none of those three have truly arrived.

If i am picking 3 that needs to step up and stud out, I gotta go with Big Phil in the middle of that defense. Richardson being the player we hoped for and lastly, Gordon needs to become the Randy Moss type of player. Studs to Stars is what it is going to take.

Kruger, Richardson, and Mingo.

Thought about adding in Haden but I expect him to have a huge year... also I think as a whole the WRs need to have a good season...

Haden, Richardson, and Gordan ...

The goal is to make the playoffs, right? And you want 3 guys who need to play at an "elite" level to get us there, right? But, you don't want to include the QB?

I understand that your argument will probably be that we ALL KNOW that Weeden needs to play much better, but man, I don't care what those other guys do............if Weeds sucks again.......we are not going to the playoffs.

I will be nice and play. I am just going to assume that Weeden plays at least decent and doesn't suck eggs like last year.

---TRich needs to be a stud. Not just solid. But---you know---play like the 3rd overall pick who cost us picks and come w/in a solar system of what fans and media projected him to be---Adrian Peterson.

---Joe Haden finally needs to live up to his draft status and the opinion of many Brown's fans. He needs to be a true #1 CB who limits/negates the other team's best WR. Thus far, he has only played on the left side of the defense. He doesn't follow the best receiver. He gives up too many plays. He is good, but he needs to be as good as most fans around here think he is.

---We need one pass rusher [Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, Bryant] to become a dominant guy who teams try and game plan around. Last year, before all the junk happened, most people agreed that getting an edge rusher was our number one need. Well, that switched once we really tried to doing that to getting a FS and a CB, but the fact remains that while those two positions are lacking, an edge rusher was our biggest weakness on defense and we need one--or more--of these guys to step up and draw a lot of attention from opposing offenses, which will open up a lot of other guys in Horton's attacking defense.

But, one more time.................it pretty much all begins and ends w/Weeden.

Trent Richardson
Josh Gordon
Joe Haden

I won't break it down to three guys, but the defense as a whole holds our PO fate other than QB. Namely the run defense!! This is the other constant other than QB since the return that has been down right embarrassing! If we can hold teams to an average of <= 90 yards a game, we have a chance, even with Weeden.

I agree with you, but I would switch Haden with Josh Gordon. If we get a 1000+ yard 8+ TD season out of him I will be thrilled.

Man, I can't pick 3 ...... because I feel that a lot of guys have to step up in order for this to be a playoff team.

1st, even though you excluded him, is Weeden. (or Campbell) He must show major improvement for us to be a playoff team.

Given that Norv has had the leading rusher in the NFL on several occasions, it seems likely that Trent will get a lot of work, and have a lot of responsibility. He's also a good receiver, making him an even more important player.

Gordon and Little need to continue to improve. If they do, that will dramatically improve the offense. If we can take shots down the field effectively it will help us score more often than constantly riding Trent in both the run and passing game.

Cameron is vitally important to the team's prospects. If he can take a big step forward, and stay healthy, he will help open things up for the receivers and the backs. If not, then he'll be an anchor on the offense.

I don't worry too much about the OL and the DL. I think that we have talent and depth on both units.

The LB corps is filled with talent, and questions. Mingo, Kruger, and Sheard could all be top flight pass rushers. Any of them could really blossom ... or flop. Hopefully at least 2 of them come through successfully. Groves is an effective backup, and has proved to be a capable OLB.

The ILB corps has DQ, and questions. DQ played better last year than previous years, but he really started out like a house on fire, and then his play tailed off considerably. I hope that Horton's defense will fit him, but if we are honest, he is a question at this point. Other than DQ, we have a ton of youth inside. Youth and question marks. We need someone to step up beside DQ.

The secondary has the most questions of any unit on the team. Could be good, could be fair, and could be an absolute disaster. Hard to say what will happen here. This unit will be important to the team's success ... but can be hidden to a degree if the pass rush comes through as we all hope.

I cannot narrow things down to just 3 players. There are entire units that are keys to whether we have a successful or failed season. We need more than just 3 individual players to come through in order to make the playoffs.

1. They need to get their 3rd down conversion percentage up.
2. They need to find a way to get 4 touchdowns a game as often as possible.
3. They need to win the turnover battle, they need to be as positve as possible in the + - ;, hold onto interceptions and force fumbles.

I don't know how Dqwell Jackson has escaped most of the lists so far.

If Dqwell, Phil Taylor, and TJ Ward, can overachieve. they can effect the outcomes of games. This is assuming that Haden will continue to show excellence.

On offense, I'm gonna go with some unknowns. TE Barnidge, WR Nelson, RB, Lewis, and Gilkey. If they all have big years in support roles then this team could really be going places.

I'm assuming that Gordon, Little, Richardson, Cameron, and the starting O-line from last year, are all gonna show excellence again anyway.

I kind of have a heart to see both players from Stephen F Austin make the cut, but the db, Aubrey could/would probably be destined for the practice squad even if they liked him.

I'm just assuming that with all the downfield running that they will have to have some kind of rotation for the wideouts, and with that, I hope Roberson makes it and produces. (Or one of these prospects).

I think, if Cameron, Smelley, and Gronkowski, all make the roster, (maybe Smelley as a FB,) that it will be unusual how that happened from the start.
I gotta think, if Cameron, Smelley, Gronkowski, and Barnidge, all develop and produce great things, while starting out kind of as carbon copies, that would have people looking back wondering how they did it.
They ain't gonna win unless they play as a team.

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I cannot narrow things down to just 3 players. There are entire units that are keys to whether we have a successful or failed season. We need more than just 3 individual players to come through in order to make the playoffs.

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Very good post. I agree w/almost--if not all--of it.

I'm not worried about Haden, Joe Thomas or any of the guys that have shown us they can play. They've played well, we've stunk.

Its the holes and question marks that will either dog us again or propel us.

The #2 CB.
Starting FS.
TE

If we can get a surprise starter at these spots and turn a weakness into a strength, it will go a long way.

Like others have stated, difficult next to impossible to pick and single out three players. The team needs to do good to be good, including everyone.

Key contributors:

Kruger, Gordon/Little (I will count them as one, b/c I think they're going feed off each other), and maybe I dont know... Shread? Shayne Graham? Camerion? Whoever takes over the free safety spot as it will be required to help cover a lot of space and ground. Hard to pick...

j/c

Rob Chudzinski

Norv Turner

Ray Horton

with all the holes in the roster they are the ones that are going to have to do it. some real coaching is our only hope of playoffs this year.

j/c

Been thinking this over since yesterday...

Jabaal Sheard- if he has an exceptional season that also increases the effectiveness of Kruger whose best production has come when there is a formidable pass rusher opposite him. If Sheard and Kruger are meeting or exceeding expectations that implies that the DL is getting after people. Another benefit will be the secondary having more opportunities to make plays because of increased pressure up front.

Gordon & Richardson- if these two have great seasons when combined with the QB you would have a Cleveland Browns version of "the triplets". Both these guys will have a significant role in the passing game. Turner's previous success with Smith, and Tomlinson suggests that the ground attack will potentially be more dynamic.

This is a team sport, in order to win everybody has to do their job.

hmmmm your posting style reminds me of somebody.

j/c

1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Special Teams

You can change the order!

1) Weeden: If Weeden is a playoff caliber QB then it stands to reason the offense was pretty good. Weeden's play directly affects the play of the WRs and indirectly affects Richardson. The better passer Weeden is the more running lanes will open for Richardson.

2) Paul Kruger: Pass rush is going to define the Browns defense. Live by the rush die by the rush. Therefore the pass rushers hold the browns playoff fate in their hands. If Kruger has a 20 sack season it would be safe to say the browns defense was pretty dominant.

3) I'm split between Richardson and whoever ends up playing FS. Richardson is important because he will keep defenses honest and open up the PA pass. Additionally it sounds like Norv is going to make Richardson a focal point of the offense. However, with the high pressure "attack" defense Horton is going to be running the corners are going to be left on islands or in the case of zone blitzes the safeties are going to be important to stop blown coverages. I think TJ is a darn good football player when healthy leaving the question mark as the FS. If the safeties play well it probably means the pass rush worked and they helped clean up the coverage.

I don't think I can think of just 3.

But: 3 on Offense are: TRich, He's gotta produce. The Left guard whoever that turns out to be and Jordan Cameron.

On D: Sheard has to adjust and do well.. Then whoever plays opposite of Haden at CB and whoever plays opposite of Ward at Safety

Those 6 positions get solid and Weeden comes along.. this could be fun to watch

It is impossible to name three players in order to achieve a winning season. On D alone we have many players that will be changing positions and playing in a scheme that they have never played in before. To put pressure on opposing QB's, they will all have to step up and adapt or our secondary will be shredded.

So the D unit as a whole will have to step up. Especially the secondary. Because say what you will, a D, even a great one, doesn't get that pressure on the QB on "every down". There will be a lot of plays where pressure can be accomplished, but there will also be many plays that pressure will be stopped. I mean I like all of the positive talk about pressuring QB's, but to believe it will happen all of the time is a fools dream.

Weeden too will have to step up. There can be no success if he doesn't.

Our G play overall will have to step up. While we see flashes from them, there is no consistency in their play.

Our entire receiving core will have to step up. Running good routes, catching the ball.

Let's face it, we have as many or more questions than we have answers at this point. As has been pointed out, football is a team sport. Without solid play in all aspects of the game, we won't be making the playoffs.

And we won't strike 1000 everywhere. I expect some surprises and some disipointments.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer with this one. All of these guys need to contribute. For me though, the big ones are

1. Jordan Cameron - Since we let Watson go, he's gonna be depended on more. He's gotten a lot of hype, and he will get even more this summer. He has to come through on it. Chud's offense is pretty heavily involved with tight ends. He has the athleticism, he has the QB with the big arm, now he's got the coaches who have him in mind, no excuses this year.

2. Jabaal Sheard - I don't know about you guys, but if Ray Horton can find a place for Jabaal Sheard, I think we will all be thrilled. I hate getting rid of good players, and this is a big change for him. I think he will get some situations where he's got his hand down, and he goes after the QB, but he will also probably be asked to do some other things, and that's where we will find out his value to the team.

3. TJ Ward/Joe Haden. If these 2 stay healthy (and out of trouble) that will sure help all these new guys in the front 7 with their transition into the new defense.

nice idea for a thread.


(1) Mingo - I think we need a great pass rush with Horton's scheme. This could be DQ (ILB rush alot for Horton) or Sheard or Kruger, but I'll go with our pass rush specialist.

(2) Ward - We need TJ to continue getting better and elevate the guys around him. Haden may be our most popular DB, but I think TJ is our best.

(3) Richardson - Lots of WRs on the roster can pick up the slack if one of them fails. If Trent isn't the RB we hope he can be, then we don't really have another answer that can be as big a part of the offense as we need.

1) Shayne Graham

Kickers usually end up with 1-4 games on their shoulders every year.

2) Trent Richardson

If he can play like a Top 5 RB (which one should expect from such a high investment), then it takes a lot of pressure off of Weeden

3) Kruger/Sheard/Mingo

Take your pick, but without a bonafide pass rusher, we're going to get torched all year long.

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3 Browns who hold the teams playoff fate other than the QB.

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1. Rob Chudzinski
2. Trent Richardson - He needs to stay healthy and run like a top 5 RB.
3. Kruger/Mingo/Sheard/??? - I agree with PDR, one needs to step up and be a stud pass rusher and at least one other needs to be good enough so that the stud can't be constantly double teamed.

I did like his idea of the kicker as well but decided to go with the coach... if his system is sound and he can get these guys believing they can win, then that will do wonders for us....

OK I will play.

Josh Gordon. The Browns have to have a number one receiver. Josh has the potential to be a home run type player. If the Browns are going to make a move Josh has to come up big.

Sack Master. One of Browns OLB's has to bring it, and bring it big. Either Kruger, Mingo, or Sheard or all in combo. In order for the Browns to win games pressure will be key.

Trent. He has to be the bell cow. Defenses need to game plan on a guy and Richardson needs to be that guy. He was a huge investment and he has to pay big dividends.

1) CB # 2

2) FS

3) TIE: Starting TE & Pass Rusher (DE, LB, whoever)

1. TRich/Davone Bess. A quick strike, vertical passing game predicates on the success of the RB to keep the defense in tight. It also relies on a short threat in the offense, guys that can move the chains. TRich and Davone Bess will have similar roles in that they will be guys that get the little yardage and move the chains with blue collar work. This will draw the defense in, which will make the long ball more effective. If these guys are successful, or one in particular, our offense improves tenfold.

2. Tashaun Gipson...Our defense is going to involve TJ Ward being everywhere. I don't so much think that he holds the keys to our defense as much as Gipson. With Ward being asked to spend more time around the LOS and doing more in terms of being everywhere. Gipson needs to be disciplined and be top notch help over the top. TP43 is so good because Ryan Clark is terrific help over the top, a great complement as a FS...Gipson needs to be the same.

3. Paul Kruger...Sheard had a down year because we had no one on the other side that was any threat to get to the QB at all...If Kruger has a good year, and is a big threat (much like T-Sizzle was to help him) it will make life for Mingo and Sheard easier. They're both transitioning, so it will benefit the defense more if Kruger is good, than if Sheard or Mingo are good. He is experienced as a 3-4 OLB, he needs to be good...it will ease the transitions of our guys that much more.