|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 259
2nd String
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 259 |
I know that football is a dangerous sport, BUT, that is it, IT IS A GAME. I wish I made $450,000 a week for playing a game. Hell, I would like to make $450,000 a year for playing a game. I know I sure as heck would take the chance of getting hurt for that kind of $$$$. I cannot feel sorry for these guys. They know the risks, even in high school. They know the risks when they are getting a full ride scholarship, something we wish ALL our kids could get. And, they know the risks when they sign the first contract. If you don't want to take the risk, become a policeman or fireman or one of the other REALLY important jobs that people do. I think he could SUFFER ALONG with $7 million for one year. Just my feelings though for whatever that is worth. 
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66 |
If Samuel gets injured doesnt he lose all of that money?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Quote:
If Samuel gets injured doesnt he lose all of that money?
Thats what i thought...but Toad says otherwise...i'm too busy to research this topic...so i'll take his word for it...doesn't make any sense tho...i've always thought that only thing guranteed is the singning bonus and nothing else...but i guess i was wrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
If Samuel gets injured doesnt he lose all of that money?
Feel free NOT to take my word for it (that's the definition of the term "critical thinking") but understand that once a player gets hurt during the year while engaged in a football-related activity, his salary is guaranteed.
The Franchise Tag does not include a signing bonus whatsoever, as it's simply the average SALARY of the top-5 players at the relevent position. So if a player gets hurt playing football, his salary is guaranteed.
The bottom line is that they want a BIGGER payday. While Samuel is going to "only" get $7.8 million, other corners are going to get more money in guarantees elsewhere. From the pure angle of being able to get more money if a player is allowed pure and true unrestricted free agency, I get their arguement. BUT, the problem is that the NFLPA agreed to this deal, AND the team that drafts any given player should be allowed SOME recourse in retaining the rights of at least ONE freakin' player 
Greed, envy, jealousy, vanity.......take your pick, but wrong is wrong.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744 |
You can expect to see a 8 yr-80 mil contract out of this guy(or similar) when he hits the open market....(Gawd I hope it's not us that are dumb enough to give it to him)
For 7 mil 1 year I would do my job and shut my mouth, but if they did it again next year that's when I would start to become irate....
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Hehehe.........I wouldn't, and I'll tell ya why 
Most of these contracts that the big players are getting include numbers like $16 million in guarantees over the first couple or few years of the deal. Right?
With the 20% raise that comes with taggin' Samuel again, that makes next year's tag number $9.75 million.
Now take the $7.9 mil this year and add in the $9.75 mil next year and what do we get? $18.65 million over two years
To me, the only REAL beef that a player can have is that he's risking bigger money down the road in case he gets injured this season. Still, we're talking about being set for life, as well as allowing the teams to actually be able to retain at least one players rights once a year.
That's more than fair.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Quote:
Now take the $7.9 mil this year and add in the $9.75 mil next year and what do we get? $18.65 million over two years
Exactly...maybe it's not about the money then as you yourself explained it that he can get paid 18mill in 2 years if he just plays..Ever think about that he wants more money spread out over the years? like say a 10 mill SB which is spread out over the length of his contract? not just his yearly salary? there are lot of benefits to that ex- taxes, more money security, knowing whta hell his FAMILY should do etc...
Since you know more let me ask you this...what if he gets hurt before the season starts in training camp or something? what then does he still make all the money?
Last edited by BrownBuck; 04/06/07 07:54 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62 |
it does not make sense that he would want more money spread out over the years. the signing bonus is paid up front (which is why it's the only portion of the contract that's guaranteed). it's spread out for cap purposes for the team, but the money is paid out when the player signs. also, regarding his salaries in future years, that money is not guaranteed, so why would he want to defer that money if he got injured or underperformed?
this is all about wanting a bigger signing bonus (higher than the $8M he'll get guaranteed this year in salary), and the prestige of a big contract like clements got. and if he gets hurt in training camp, he gets the money!
what i think is ridiculous is that if he played under the *onerous* franchise tag each year over the life of clement's contract, samual would make a ton more money than clements since he'd get a 20% raise each year! i just don't see what the problem is here for samuel! it's almost contrary to your earlier point that he perhaps wants to spread out his money...it actually seems that he could make more over time under the franchise tag, but he wants more now in the form of the signing bonus. that my friend sounds like greed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Well if you take your 7.8 mil, pay your taxes and have like 4 mil left, and invest it wisely instead of buying a 2 mil house, 15 cars, and tons of bling bling, then 4 mil will suffice most people for their lifetime.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Quote:
Well if you take your 7.8 mil, pay your taxes and have like 4 mil left, and invest it wisely instead of buying a 2 mil house, 15 cars, and tons of bling bling, then 4 mil will suffice most people for their lifetime.
Oh okay...so i guess it's okay for an avg joe to dream about having a big house and 15 cars because our chances of getting that aren't realistic...but as soon as someone CAN live that life we should tell them to stop being greedy?
Please it's human nature to want more and if he can get more i think he should ask for it...who are we to tell him how to live his life? Do i like players holding out for more money? HELL NO i'm a fan and i don't want to see my team get hurt cuz some SOB wants more money...but i'm not going to think of him as a greedy low life for wanting more...we aren't talking about billions of dollars here it's just millions...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Quote:
the signing bonus is paid up front (which is why it's the only portion of the contract that's guaranteed). it's spread out for cap purposes for the team, but the money is paid out when the player signs. also, regarding his salaries in future years, that money is not guaranteed, so why would he want to defer that money if he got injured or underperformed?
Wait wait wait...you are saying singing bonus is paid up front and thats it? i thought it was prorated and it's guranteed money...
Say a player gets 10 mill in SB and his contract is 5 years then he should see 2 mill every year of his contract guranteed...so that means if he goes down in year 3 he still gets the 2 mill for year 3(at which point he should have recieved 6mill)..and if the team cuts him he still gets the other 4 mill for year 4 and 5(that is where the term "dead money" comes from)
I hope i'm right...if i'm wrong please correct me....
Quote:
i just don't see what the problem is here for samuel!
There are other factors that makes him want a long term deal over ton of money each year...he has to think about his family(does he even have family? lol i'm just assuming he does) If you are a single guy you can move whereever the hell but if u have kids n such u can't jus pack up n leave....it's called JOB SECURITY
Quote:
it's almost contrary to your earlier point that he perhaps wants to spread out his money
I don't understand how its contrary to anything i said....if he doesn't want a lump sum of money then he wants it spread out? don't see anything wrong with that logic...
Quote:
it actually seems that he could make more over time under the franchise tag, but he wants more now in the form of the signing bonus. that my friend sounds like greed.
I'm pretty sure nobody gets all of the signing bonus up front...but then again i could be wrong..if that is the case then i'm wrong...but as far as i know SB is usually guranteed money spread out over the length of the contract...
![[Linked Image from fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net]](https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/276870_6711658857_1403067853_q.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Wait wait wait...you are saying singing bonus is paid up front and thats it? i thought it was prorated and it's guranteed money...
Seriously, no offense BrownBuck, but it would benefit you greatly to take about an hour and research how all this works.
Franchise tag money is a salary with no SB and it's guaranteed unless you retire, hold out, or hurt yourself in a non-football related activity.
Signing bonuses are paid out all at once upon signing you're contract. The CAP HIT is spread out over the length of the deal. That's on the teams books and has nothing to do with the player.
Do some research. You'll be very glad you did.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62 |
Quote:
Wait wait wait...you are saying singing bonus is paid up front and thats it? i thought it was prorated and it's guranteed money...
Quote:
Say a player gets 10 mill in SB and his contract is 5 years then he should see 2 mill every year of his contract guranteed...so that means if he goes down in year 3 he still gets the 2 mill for year 3(at which point he should have recieved 6mill)..and if the team cuts him he still gets the other 4 mill for year 4 and 5(that is where the term "dead money" comes from)
I hope i'm right...if i'm wrong please correct me....
Quote:
I'm pretty sure nobody gets all of the signing bonus up front...but then again i could be wrong..if that is the case then i'm wrong...but as far as i know SB is usually guranteed money spread out over the length of the contract...
The signing bonus is received at the time the player signs the contract. The proration of the signing bonus over the life of the contract is purely for salary cap purposes. The money is already out the door. You are right about dead money though, in your example above. If he goes down in year 3 and the team cuts him before year 4, the remaining $4M counts against the team's cap in year 4. It's "dead money" because even though it's already been paid and the player is not on the team anymore, it still counts against the current year cap. It does not mean that he gets $2M per year for the next two years or $4M when he gets cut; he has already received the $10M when he signed the contract.
I copied the following portion of a Q&A from a thread in the Information section of this message board. This might help to clear things up a little better than I can explain.
Q: If that is true, why would any player be willing to sign such a back loaded contract if they will most likely never see the big money at the end of the contract?
A: Ah. That is where signing bonuses come into play. In order to convince the player to sign such a cap friendly contract, the team will fork over a large signing bonus. The signing bonus is guaranteed, so that money is the player's to keep if the team decides to release him later.
Q: That's cheating! How can you have a real salary cap if all you have to do is give a player a signing bonus to get around it?
A: Now we come to the tricky part. The signing bonus IS part of the player's salary. So it counts against the cap. When determining team and player salary, the signing bonus will be prorated over the length of the contract.
For example, if a player signs a four-year deal with a $1 million signing bonus, $250,000 of that bonus will count toward team salary for each contract year ($1 million divided evenly over the four-year contract is $250,000 per year). If a team releases a player, the unamoratized bonus money (the remaining prorated bonus money) counts immediately against the cap. In our example above, if the player is released after Year 1, the remaining $750,000 (the prorated signing bonus money for years 2-4) counts against the cap in year 2 -- even though the player is no longer on the team's roster.
Dawgtalker archive
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845 |
Very good research and info. And if you think about it, Samuels/his agent knows that there are only so many years to max a players money. Since the ONLY guaranteed money in the NFL is the upfront bonus money, that is why they do not want to get franchised. Yes, he will make some decent money this year but if he gets hurt in training camp he does not get the rest of his contract money for the term of the contract. I'm trying to look up if they get the money due them for the year but I remember hearing that he players do not get all of that contracted money for the year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Quote:
Quote:
Wait wait wait...you are saying singing bonus is paid up front and thats it? i thought it was prorated and it's guranteed money...
Seriously, no offense BrownBuck, but it would benefit you greatly to take about an hour and research how all this works.
Franchise tag money is a salary with no SB and it's guaranteed unless you retire, hold out, or hurt yourself in a non-football related activity.
Signing bonuses are paid out all at once upon signing you're contract. The CAP HIT is spread out over the length of the deal. That's on the teams books and has nothing to do with the player.
Do some research. You'll be very glad you did.
We were talking about actual contracts i suggest you read my posts bro....you already made this point clear to me earlier in the thread and i agreed
PS- why do research when ppl on this board know their stuff...i don't have time to do research i have better stuff to do...this is why i was asking questions in this thead so you can impart your wisdom on me 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Makes sense...well i was under the impression the player actually recieves the money every year instead of up front...in that case i was wrong...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 282
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 282 |
Quote:
PS- why do research when ppl on this board know their stuff...i don't have time to do research i have better stuff to do...this is why i was asking questions in this thead so you can impart your wisdom on me
Better stuff to do, huh? Like argue with the people you claim to be asking for help -- while simultaneously ignoring the answers they took the time to post? 
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Just clicking... Redskins | Team to inquire about Samuel Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:53:50 -0700 Ryan O'Halloran, of the Washington Times, reports the Washington Redskins are expected to call the New England Patriots about the availability of CB Asante Samuel. KFFL Wow... Skins at it again... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
PS- why do research when ppl on this board know their stuff...
Because these people don't always do, hehe.
Besides, maybe I'm not remembering one of your posts correctly, but I thought it was rather combative/arguementitive in nature. If that was the honest case, I'm just trying to save you from having to do what you've done earlier: Say sorry It's much funner to tell someone to go screw themselves *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,333 |
Indeed it was...the first one...when you informed me that franchise tag is guranteed money as long as the player doesn't pull a K2....after that i was talking to another guy about SB and regular contract when i learned that SB is always paid up front   see...ppl kno their stuff
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Asante Samuel Unhappy in New
England
|
|
