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j/c: Lot's of harsh words directed at fellow posters while Godon goes unscathed. Gotta love the irony of it. Did anyone other than PDR, Dawg Lber, and me even take a minute or two to look at that picture? Did anyone check out his face book page? Keep ripping fellow posters, guys. The problem will go away if you get others to agree w/you and rip us. 
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I know some people might scoff at this, but we might need to start thinking about the C-word.
Our roster has had its fair share of arrests and failed drug tests, and the old timers are starting to grumble about late nights and parties.
If we churn out W's, it doesn't really matter. But when you string the L's like we do, it's a bit of a concern.
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You actually did what you're accusing me of.....hating on something with no proof.....and I wan't nearly as nasty. 
Well I owe an apology ... sorry !
I'll say: I'm happy to give the guy a chance, and I disagree with anyone who wants to assume the guy is a serial drug user.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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He is a Browns player that cost a top 40 pick in the 2013 draft. Honestly very few people are going to be unbiased enough to talk about the guy without giving him every conceivable benefit of the doubt.
Imagine if he played for another team, especially if it was one of the other three teams in the division. I bet this thread would be in the Smack Shack.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if it was purple drank, a prescription, both??, or something completely unrelated (NFL can't refute anything.) Why was he suspended in the first place... that is, what happened with the other violation(s) of the policy before this one?
The guy needs to get his act together. He probably has one, maybe two, chances for the rest of his career. He could be a dominant #1 WR or he could be out of the league, a guy who had all the talent and every opportunity in the world but couldn't figure it out until it was too late. We'll see.
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Quote:
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Don't know what planet or country you live in or on - but here, the policy is innocent until proven guilty.
I don't know how many times this has been pointed out already, but no, that is not the policy here.
The Josh Gordon situation is not a legal matter. This isn't a court of law.
The NFL has suspended him for 2 games and 4 game checks for failing a drug test. Their policy - which is a good one - is not to comment on the matter.
Josh Gordon has said it was an honest mistake involving prescription cough medicine.
There's not going to be a trial to decide the matter. So the issue at hand is whether one believes Gordon's story or not.
And he doesn't have the right of innocent until proven guilty in a court of public opinion. No one does.
What you're saying is that in the court of public opinion people are guilty until proven innocent? Why? Explain to me why the onus is on Gordon to prove himself.
Explain why its okay for people to put 2 and 2 together and get 22 and think they can talk about their opinion as if its fact when the truth is no one knows?
Maybe all the posters condemning Gordon for basically being a serial drug user and a bum have lived faultless lives and never did anything dumb. It's a possibility.
For myself I know that if you wanted to pick the 5 dumbest things I ever did at Gordon's age and write them down one after the other and not look at any other event or perspective of my life at that time - just a list of my 5 dumbest moments - I am sure people would be able to jump to all sorts or wild and untrue assumptions about what sort of kid I was. I won't do that to Gordon.
Whether he did weed or cough medicine - I don't care. I'll give him a chance and judge him on his actions going forward.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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C-word? Do you mean controversy? Sorry, I am a little slow, sometimes.
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What you're saying is that in the court of public opinion people are guilty until proven innocent? Why?
No, I am not saying that one is guilty until proven innocent.
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Explain to me why the onus is on Gordon to prove himself.
The onus isn't on Gordon to do anything. He says it was a mix-up with prescription cough medicine. That's it. End of story.
He doesn't have to provide the prescription or prove anything.
Also, I don't have to prove his guilt in order to state that I don't believe him. And you can invalidate the reasons I list as not being proof, but again - we're not in a court of law. I don't have to prove why I believe what I believe.
But if you really want to get into it, there's more evidence suggesting that Gordon is lying than the other way around.
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Explain why its okay for people to put 2 and 2 together and get 22 and think they can talk about their opinion as if its fact when the truth is no one knows?
I haven't seen anyone here try to put 2 and 2 together and get 22.
Here's an equation for you:
A long history of drug abuse + a shaky alibi = I don't believe Josh Gordon
You can run the equation all you want ... the math is correct.
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Maybe all the posters condemning Gordon for basically being a serial drug user and a bum have lived faultless lives and never did anything dumb. It's a possibility.
We're not talking about my life and the poor choices I've made. If you want to start a thread about that, go ahead. It probably won't be all that popular.
Josh Gordon plays for the Cleveland Browns. He was a risky pick, because he had a history of drug abuse that's kept him off the field.
He just failed a drug test, and won't be on the field.
And I've never called him a bum. And, yes, he is a serial drug user. That's a fact, not an opinion.
Personally, that doesn't bother me at all if he's on the field making plays. When he's not on the field making plays, because he failed a drug test, then it starts to become an issue.
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I'll give him a chance and judge him on his actions going forward.
I think I said something very similar when we first drafted him.
Then the reports came out that he failed a third test at Utah.
Then he admitted to lying about failing a test.
The he got suspended for failing a drug test.
And that's the Cliff Notes list.
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C-word? Do you mean controversy? Sorry, I am a little slow, sometimes.
Character.
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Oh wow! The roster. I was thinking about that awhile ago when I was responding to Clem on another thread about our expectations for this year. Guys like Haden, Taylor, Ward, Little, TRich, etc are all questionable.
Like you say, if we win........no big deal. But, if we start losing a lot, it could become a big issue.
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Personally, once they walk in the door, I don't bother much with their pasts as long as they stay there.
So guys like Little, Sheard, Taylor, etc. I haven't been too concerned with.
But this offseason alone we've had a character risk player get a DUI and another land on drug suspension.
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J/C
I think I know why the 'Official" site Dawg Chat was closed. There is nothing but bickering here anymore. 
Which is why I've grown weary of this place and make fewer and fewer visits here.
As for Gordon, I hated that desperate pick when we made it and feel no better about it now. I didn't trust anything that liar said when he came out and don't trust him now. It was a risky, risky pick...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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J/C
I think I know why the 'Official" site Dawg Chat was closed. There is nothing but bickering here anymore.
Which is why I've grown weary of this place and make fewer and fewer visits here.
As for Gordon, I hated that desperate pick when we made it and feel no better about it now. I didn't trust anything that liar said when he came out and don't trust him now. It was a risky, risky pick...
It did appear to be a reach at the time.. one made of desperation.
But, when you look at his production last year, given his time away from the game, he was pretty good. I'd almost say a bright spot in an otherwise bleak season.
That's not in any way excusing him from his conduct off the field. If indeed he did take a Med his Dr told him to take, he's dumb for not checking with the league or at least the Dr for the Browns. But certainly not a criminal.
If he didn't take that med and was caught using Mary Jane again, then damn, that is just stupid. he's got the whole world ahead of him.. He has the skills to be top shelf. But if he's willing to give it up for some smoke, he's an idiot.
I honestly don't know which is true... Not sure we ever will..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
I don't see a scenario where a kid with his background doesn't know what codeine is, or that it's a banned substance.
People can pick apart my opinion if they want. It doesn't really matter. My version or Josh Gordon's doesn't change the fact that the next failed test is a year's suspension, and probably his walking papers.
I really like him on the field. No one's going to question that. But don't let that cloud your judgment - he is a huge liability right now, and at the present moment cannot be counted on for the future.
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C-word? Do you mean controversy? Sorry, I am a little slow, sometimes.
Character.
i thought you meant Cincinatti
#gmstrong
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C-word? Do you mean controversy? Sorry, I am a little slow, sometimes.
Character.
i thought you meant Cincinatti
We're starting to resemble them, rap sheet wise. 
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
Check out the article I posted on page one of this thread. I think it was early on. It's about Purple Drank. It's a cocktail that gets you wasted. Has codeine in it. Very popular in Texas.
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Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
Check out the article I posted on page one of this thread. I think it was early on. It's about Purple Drank. It's a cocktail that gets you wasted. Has codeine in it. Very popular in Texas.
So it's not codeine in and of itself, but mixed with something else.. Ok
Are they saying that's what he did? Or is that speculation?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
Yes, it gets you high.
Codeine cough syrup mixed with Sprite or juice is very popular among the hip-hop and youth culture in Houston, where Gordon is from. He hangs out with people who rap about it. He posts songs that talk about it.
As far as use by NFL players is concerned, JaMarcus Russell flunked tests for it and was eventually arrested for it.
None of that shows that Gordon is a fan of purple drank, but it's extremely doubtful that he wasn't aware of what it was at the time he claims he failed his test.
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Codeine is an opioid, like heroin or morphine. It's also a Schedule II Controlled Substance by the DEA.
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https://www.nflplayers.com/about-us/history/Player-Policies/Drug-Policy/NFL Drug Policy. If Gordon was on strike number 2 - I don't see anywhere a 2 game suspension is even an option. Now I will freely admit to spending less than 5 minutes scanning and trying to find the relevant disciplinary action(s) for players in Stage Two ... so I may easily have missed something.
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You missed about 97% of the policy, some reports from Browns beat reporters, and Gordon's own statement about the NFL not imposing the maximum punishment allowed (which is pretty common for violations of the substance abuse policy, as opposed to violations of the PEDs policy.)
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Page 35, Appendix E, Section 2.
Which all but confirms that Gordon failed a test prior to this incident.
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Page 35, Appendix E, Section 2.
Which all but confirms that Gordon failed a test prior to this incident.
Good catch. It's the last page of the policy.
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APPENDIX E
ABUSE OF PRESCRIPTION AND
OVER-THE-COUNTER DRUGS
Under the Policy, the abuse of prescription and over-the-counter drugs is prohibited.
Abuse of prescription drugs is defined as either:
a. the use of a prescription drug without a prescription issued to the player
by a licensed healthcare provider; or
b. the use of a prescription drug issued to the player by a licensed healthcare
provider more than thirty (30) days after the expiration date of the
prescription.
Abuse of over-the-counter drugs is defined as the use of an over-the-counter drug in
disregard for the directions for use.
The NFL and NFL Players Association have agreed that, effective July 15, 2009, the following
will apply with respect to positive test results based on the impermissible use of these drugs:
1. Any player who tests positive due to the abuse of a prescription or over-the-counter drug
during Pre-Employment Testing (Section I.C.1.a) or Pre-Season Testing (Section I.C.1.b) shall
enter Stage One of the Intervention Program by Behavior pursuant to Section I.D.1.b.
2. A player who is in the Intervention Program and who tests positive a first time due to the
abuse of a prescription or over-the-counter drug will be eligible for a reduction from the
applicable discipline unless his entry into the Intervention Program was due to the abuse of a
prescription or over-the-counter drug.
3. A player who tests positive a second time due to the abuse of a prescription or over-thecounter
drug shall not be eligible for a reduction in discipline.
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Wasn't his first suspension from his college days?
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
\\\
Boy does it... we used to be given almost pure codeine in colege by the dispensary when we got what we called the " Emory Crud" This was in the mid 70's.... back then it was a liquid 714.
I know little about this Purple Drank sounds like a bunch of amateurs to me... pfft .. pusses having to mix it with something.. 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Wasn't his first suspension from his college days?
It's possible/likely that he could've been put into Stage One as an incoming rookie, but that lasts 90 days. After that, the supervising doctor can add another 90 days if they so choose. After the six months is up, the supervising doctor can extend the stay in Stage One, under 'unusual' or 'compelling' circumstances, so long as the Director agrees.
It's unlikely that he stayed in Stage One so long without failing the initial undisclosed drug test.
Also, reading through the policy ... you kind of have to be an idiot to get suspended for drugs.
It's entirely possible for a player to fail a drug test, stay clean for 3-6 months, fail a drug test, stay clean for 3-6 months, etc., etc. and never be suspended. You pretty much have to fail a test within 3-6 months after failing a test to get suspended.
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Quote:
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
\\\
Boy does it... we used to be given almost pure codeine in colege by the dispensary when we got what we called the " Emory Crud" This was in the mid 70's.... back then it was a liquid 714.
I know little about this Purple Drank sounds like a bunch of amateurs to me... pfft .. pusses having to mix it with something..
Don't knock it till you try it.
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Gordon running around with the wrong people: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...the-wrong-crowd" Josh Gordon reportedly running with the wrong crowd 16 By Chris Wesseling Around the League Writer Published: June 24, 2013 at 12:19 p.m. Updated: June 24, 2013 at 12:44 p.m. Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon "sincerely" apologized for his suspension earlier this month, but the two-game ban apparently has not served as a wake-up call. A source told ESPNCleveland.com's Tony Grossi that Gordon has been partying in South Beach, running with a "different crowd" and being "influenced by the wrong people" since the end of the 2012 NFL season. Brooks: Why Browns will soar People are used to expecting little from the Browns, but Bucky Brooks says their offense is poised to surprise. More ... Gordon has also displayed immaturity and poor judgment in waging a Twitter war with Cleveland fans over his support for LeBron James and the Miami Heat during the NBA playoffs. Gordon's bumpy offseason led Terry Pluto of The Plain Dealer to reveal that Browns executives had told him they were concerned about the "entitlement mentality" of some of their players. Part of the problem is that the game comes too easily for Gordon, who possesses a legit No. 1 wide receiver skill set. Last year's coaching staff was less than thrilled with Gordon's lackadaisical approach in training camp, and CEO Joe Banner called Gordon out in March. Former Denver Broncos tight end Nate Jackson once estimated that there were 100,000 people in the world who are physically talented enough to play football in the NFL, but most don't have what it takes mentally. Even the gifted players wash out of the league if the light never flips on. Gordon's case has an extra layer of intrigue because the Browns' new vice president of player personnel Mike Lombardi labeled him a "waste" of a supplemental draft pick last summer."
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has he been partying with those people in South Beach since the suspension?
Grossi had reported that is where he was in Feb. is he still doing it now? seems like the article is trying to stretch what Tony said and make it a continuing problem. it might be, but I just want to know rather than inherent speculation.
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has he been partying with those people in South Beach since the suspension?
Grossi had reported that is where he was in Feb. is he still doing it now? seems like the article is trying to stretch what Tony said and make it a continuing problem. it might be, but I just want to know rather than inherent speculation.
He just posted a video of Greg Little and himself drunk at the club with the Miami Heat after they won the title.
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Other pics have been posted too. Makes you wonder if he was sincere about his apology? And even to get more juicy, makes you wonder if he can grow up and escape what we all know of him and what has been documented? I got a bad feeling about this and him. 
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has he been partying with those people in South Beach since the suspension?
Grossi had reported that is where he was in Feb. is he still doing it now? seems like the article is trying to stretch what Tony said and make it a continuing problem. it might be, but I just want to know rather than inherent speculation.
He just posted a video of Greg Little and himself drunk at the club with the Miami Heat after they won the title.
well, thanks for the info. good to know what we are dealing with at least.
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Quote:
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If I had to take a guess, I would say that he probably failed a test for weed last year, and then failed another for codeine, but I doubt it was for medical reasons.
Could be,, although, I'm not sure why someone would take Codeine for any reason other them to help with a health issue.. But then, I'm not sure what effects Codeine has on the body other then as a cough supprecent. (sp)
Does it do something else. does it get you high?
\\\
Boy does it... we used to be given almost pure codeine in colege by the dispensary when we got what we called the " Emory Crud" This was in the mid 70's.... back then it was a liquid 714.
I know little about this Purple Drank sounds like a bunch of amateurs to me... pfft .. pusses having to mix it with something..
Don't knock it till you try it.
I have friends who have tried it.. punk ass drink used by a bunch of wannabees,
Last edited by texaslostdawg; 06/24/13 04:51 PM.
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I mean it is the off season... and they BOTH are still young.. i'm sure they want to have some kind of fun.. so idk..
as long as he doesn't get into any trouble and have any more suspension.. i dont have much to say about it
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Are they saying that's what he did? Or is that speculatio
Pure speculation on my part.
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as long as he doesn't get into any trouble
Come on, man. He's already gotten into trouble. He has been kicked out of two universities and suspended by the NFL.
It's time to change the life style.
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i thought the suspension was related to medications tho.. not out partying causing havoc
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Gordon said that he was taking a prescription med. That doesn't make it true. The NFL is not allowed to state the real reason.
Did you look at the picture that PDR posted? Have you checked out his Face Book page? Twitter? Have you read the articles? Did you listen to Banner's warning back in March? Do you not know his history?
Look, I know we are all stating opinions here. I am not arguing because I need to be right. But, I am not a fool. Gordon has a problem. He is also a very talented player. He needs freaking help. He needs intervention. I don't want to see him get kicked out of the league because people are continua
He cost us a second round pick. He is big. Strong. Fast. He can even catch. He can be a difference maker, but this cat is on a path of self-destruction. I really could care less about him, but the Browns need him to produce. And he ain't going to produce while he is suspended or banished for life.
Stop the nonsense! Get him help!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon suspended two games
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