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Speaking of LH relievers, the Red Sox traded for Matt Thornton with the White Sox yesterday. They sent a minor leaguer hitting less than .250. I thought to myself: we have guys like that, don't we?
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Speaking of LH relievers, the Red Sox traded for Matt Thornton with the White Sox yesterday. They sent a minor leaguer hitting less than .250. I thought to myself: we have guys like that, don't we?
chicago is going to ask for more from us than from boston. just how it is.
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We still need a starting pitcher, another bat, and a lefty in the pen. Still not convinced this team could beat playoff contenders. 3-9 against detroit, 6-18 against the top 4 in al east. to realsitically dethrone the tigers, we will need to empty the farm. The talent is still pretty wide, we would need a blockbuster, to get it done. We have feasted on weak teams.
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We still need a starting pitcher, another bat, and a lefty in the pen. Still not convinced this team could beat playoff contenders. 3-9 against detroit, 6-18 against the top 4 in al east. to realsitically dethrone the tigers, we will need to empty the farm. The talent is still pretty wide, we would need a blockbuster, to get it done. We have feasted on weak teams.
That's why I don't want to give up a premium young starter to get a so-so middle reliever in return. If we can send someone a .220 hitter for a decent middle guy, then that's fine. If we can send a .240 guy for a decent reliever who can be used later in the game, then that's fine too. Trading away one of our upper pitching prospects for either type of reliever is unacceptable to me. I just don't see that kind of guy being the difference between winning a World Series or not. Same thing for a decent veteran bat. I don't want to give up a pitching prospect who could help as soon as next year for a short term, so-so rental.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wonder if any team has ever gone with a 6-man rotation? Masterson is piling up innings, but the rest of our starters - with the possible exception of Kluber of late - seem to hit a wall after 5-6 innings. I wonder if Jimenez, Kazmir, and McAllister would be stronger if they worked every 7th day, or would they get rusty? I think the Indians are concerned with limiting the innings of Salazar because of his TJ surgery, and this might be a way to do that while still getting the benefit of having him in the mix. If our starters could give us 6-7 innings instead of only 5-6, it would help save the bullpen too. Just a thought, probably a dumb thought, but it would be interesting to try.
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I'm rather certain teams have used 6-man rotations before, but not for the duration of an entire season. As factors build during the course of the season, teams (for a short period) have gone with six men. Reasons include innings count, maybe young up-n-comers out of minor league options, etc.
I believe the Indians did this back in the 90s briefly but I cannot remember the circumstances but maybe I'm wrong.
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The problem the Indians are facing regarding starting pitching longevity centers around two guys for two different reasons--Jimenez and Kazmir. Jimenez, I guess by his nature/approach just has a very high pitch count and I think Francona now looks to go to his bullpen in the 6th. Kazmir, because of his injury history I think sometimes struggles with endurance and it can hit him at any time. Both these guys, IMO, can be throwing masterful games and then completely fizzle out on the very next batter. To fault Francona, I think he has been victim to leaving these guys, and frankly the entire rotation, out there too long. This isn't to say these guys can't go deep into a game...both have. I think, however, more often than not, you'll see them hit a wall around the 6th. This would be fine if our bullpen hadn't been struggling so much in the first half. I'm actually looking forward to seeing if Brett Myers can come back and be moved to the bullpen. This may help us greatly as we head for the playoffs. 
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According to the Plain Dealer, McAllister might be ready to return after the break, although they also report he still has not thrown his curveball in rehab, so who knows? If MacAllister is ready to return, maybe the thing to do is keep a 5-man rotaton drawn from a pool of 6 pitchers, with everybody skipping a start a couple times over the rest of the season. Or maybe you just keep Masterson in his normal spot, and choose the remaining 4 starters from a pool of 5. It would be like giving the starters a couple more "All Star breaks" to keep them strong. The effect would be the same, no?
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It seems to me that you're right about the Indians with a 6 man rotation. I cannot remember which year though. I thought that it was around the time we had Jarret Wright up, but that's probably not right. Cool number of the day: This year the Indians have won 50 games in their first 94. Last year they won 68 total games. We have 68 games left this year. I think (and hope, and pray) that we'll improve over last year.  If we win half of our games the rest of the way, we'll have our best record since 2007. That would be a huge step in the right direction.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Unless I am missing someone, we shouldn't need a 6-man rotation after the break. Carasco and Salazaar both sent down. McAllister will slide right into the five man rotation unless I'm missing someone.
Masterson
Jimenez
Kluber
McAllister
Kazmir
McAllister pitched either yesterday or the day before that and thought I read he did well but didn't see types of pitches thrown-- so I'll defer to your better info on that. I feel like he'll be ready as his rehab schedule since being injured had been targeted for after the break, and up to this point, everything has been on schedule.
The most difficult thing for McAllister may just be mentally focused after being out of sync since the injury.
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I think the Indians are concerned he not become another Adam Miller, whose career was basically ended by a finger injury.
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I think the Indians are concerned he not become another Adam Miller, whose career was basically ended by a finger injury.
They have all but said that.
They are concerned about not letting him throw many curveballs as he works his way back.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The question is whether he can be effective without a breaking pitch. IIRC, that leaves him with a 2-seam & 4-seam fastball, and a change-up. Not sure thats gonna cut it.
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Oh he has to throw his curve if he's going to be a Major League pitcher. The question seems to be whether or not he can throw the curve without doing damage to his finger.
I'm not sure what you can do to prevent damage to a ligament or tendon. (I think that's what he had a problem with) I don't know if you can "stretch" it out like you would a muscle ..... or what?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know either - I'm not even sure what his injury is - but I always thought that the problem with ligaments is that they get torn, or frayed, or stretched out to the point that the joint becomes unstable. Maybe it just needs time to heal. Why rush a promising young pitcher?
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I also wonder if they can stabilize his finger, with tape, for example, before he pitches? I really don't know. I'm not an expert, by any stretch, on finger injures but it seems logical that it might work. Maybe? lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree. Take it slow with McAllister. Make sure he heals. If he doesn't pitch until August, fine by me. THe other guys are holding up okay. Then when he returns he will have a fresh are down the stretch while all the other pitchers in the league are losing a mph or 2 off their fastballs because their arms are getting tired.
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I think that our starting pitching is fine if the bullpen pulls things together. If we make the playoffs we go with a 3 man starting rotation. Obviously we go with Masterson. I would have Kluber as our number 2. A fresh armed McAllister would be #3 if he is able to come back and regain his form. If not, then Ubaldo or Kazmir. Kazmir to the bullpen would solidify the lefty relief situation but Francona might want to go with a lefty starter to match up against a team with a strong left-handed lineup.
Once McAllister comes back, moving Kazmir to the bullpen now might not be a bad idea. The bullpen needs help, especially from the left side. And this would get him used to that role come playoff time. The problem with that is we still need someone to step up into the 5th starter role. I think Bauer has gotten into his own head and I have no faith in Carrasco. I am encouraged by Salazar but one start does not a pitcher make.
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Haven't they already been taking it extremely slow with McAllister since the injury? I thought that was the whole part of the plan. Then when he's ready, he'll go.
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CC Lee made his debut today. 1.1 innings, 18 pitches, no runs, 1 walk, 1 hit batter. Solid enough debut. Jimenez kept giving the lead back every time the Indians gave it back to him.  Indians are back up 5-4 with Cabrera at 2nd, 1 out, and Kipnis at the plate. Kipnis is rapidly becoming one of my favorite players.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've been saying this for at least a month now, but we need to get more innings out of Jimenez. 5 innings or less ain't gonna cut it. Took the kids to the pool, so I missed C.C. Lee's debut. Hopefully, we'll see more of him and he gets rid of the jitters!
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Sounds like a fan at the game today caught 4 foul balls, and we won, yay
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Long-term extension radar as far as I am concerned....
- Jason Kipnis
- Michael Brantley
- Justin Masterson
- Joe Smith
My sense is they will, if they haven't already approached these guys. Lock 'em up young before they get even better and price themselves out of Cleveland.
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Kluber can also be added to this list but just has a smaller sample size of success then the aforementioned. He is however 27 yrs old.
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I've been saying this for at least a month now, but we need to get more innings out of Jimenez. 5 innings or less ain't gonna cut it. Took the kids to the pool, so I missed C.C. Lee's debut. Hopefully, we'll see more of him and he gets rid of the jitters!
I feel like an idiot for thinking one day he might turn it around.
I don't think that day is coming. What a waste.
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Quote:
I've been saying this for at least a month now, but we need to get more innings out of Jimenez. 5 innings or less ain't gonna cut it. Took the kids to the pool, so I missed C.C. Lee's debut. Hopefully, we'll see more of him and he gets rid of the jitters!
I feel like an idiot for thinking one day he might turn it around.
I don't think that day is coming. What a waste.
same here.
at this point, if he's not going deep into games, if he's not reliable to give a consistent effort, then I don't think there's much chance we pickup that option for next year. and, we still are pretty desperate for veteran pitching who can pitch late into games (our youngsters will be on pitch-count and IP-counts).
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Didn't we already figure out the money he's getting and what he's giving the Tribe on the mound is about the league average for that salary? Meaning, for what he's being paid, he's right where he should be. Obviously we would want better, but that's not likely to happen. Plus, the guys we sent to the Rockies haven't set the world on fire, right?
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Didn't we already figure out the money he's getting and what he's giving the Tribe on the mound is about the league average for that salary? Meaning, for what he's being paid, he's right where he should be. Obviously we would want better, but that's not likely to happen. Plus, the guys we sent to the Rockies haven't set the world on fire, right?
it's opportunity lost though. those prospects were thought well enough at the time and still have cheaper contracts and a longer leash to eventually become okay guys (well, at least Pomeranz).
Gio Gonzalez went for about the same price that offseason from the A`s to the Nats (as one example). No idea of Beane and the A`s would have valued our guys the same way, but it just stinks to have wasted prospects (and time and money) on Ubaldo.
and, he has a negative WAR and an ERA over 5 since being a member of the Tribe. he's been better this year (though the less than 6IP/start is annoying), but there are better uses of $6mil/year.
then again, we spent $7mil on Myers, so Antonetti may not have spent it wisely anyway (though if you put those 2 sums together, then we could have had Kyle Lohse or someone else of a similar ilk).
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Didn't we already figure out the money he's getting and what he's giving the Tribe on the mound is about the league average for that salary? Meaning, for what he's being paid, he's right where he should be. Obviously we would want better, but that's not likely to happen. Plus, the guys we sent to the Rockies haven't set the world on fire, right?
That doesn't make me feel all that much better, however, at least we aren't the butt of jokes because we traded away the next great thing.
I really feel that if Tito and his guys can't get to Ubaldo, there's no hope for him.
He's an average pitcher with all-star type stuff. That's why he's looked at as such a disappointment.
I'm impressed with how this team has done up to the half. Take away their play versus the Tigers, and that really bad stretch where they lost 8 in a row, they have been good.
+50 wins, and less than 2 games out. That's a good spot for a final push. I really hope the team looks to get better before the deadline.
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and, he has a negative WAR and an ERA over 5 since being a member of the Tribe. he's been better this year (though the less than 6IP/start is annoying), but there are better uses of $6mil/year.
Not that I'm asking you to do it, but I'd like to see his WAR just for this year. The 2nd half of last year was a throw away for everyone in a Tribe jersey, nobody looked good. I seem to remember him getting completely rocked in August and September when the whole team rolled over too. While those awful starts are important in a way, they aren't "this season".
If he can keep us in the game and go 5-6 innings, that's all I care about. Sure it's not what we wanted out of him at the trade, but comparing him to last year, he's a lot better (only because he was terrible last year - from my memory at least).
And yes Sperg, with the record and position in the standings they have, I take that with a smile. 60+ games to go. Time to make a push.
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http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jimenub01.shtmlUbaldo's WAR this season = 0.3 (which a 0.6 WAR for the year he's about paid right....but we did pay him last year and 1/2 the season the year before, which is why he's overall overpaid in a Tribe jersey) Sadly, we really need Ubaldo & Masterson to go 6-7 innings almost every start. With the amount of youngsters we run out there and Kazmir (likely inning-count due to coming back from injury) we need our main guys to log solid innings and save our bullpen, which they are not doing.
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Going off numbers I am guessing at so my thought could change if his salary is higher than I think it will be, but I think that we do pick up the option on Ubaldo. My understanding is that he will not be getting paid an exorbitant amount of money.
In my mind he is a #4 pitcher on a staff. With a fairly club friendly salary, I think that he is worth it. I just don't think that the youngsters are quite ready to take over yet. I think we keep Ubaldo next season but 2014 is his last as an Indian.
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If the site I am looking at is right, (rotoworld) then he will make $8 million next year on a club option, or else he receives a $1 million buyout.
It also has a note saying that Jimenez may void 2014 if traded ...... so I'm not sure if that means when he was traded to us, or if he's traded again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Going off numbers I am guessing at so my thought could change if his salary is higher than I think it will be, but I think that we do pick up the option on Ubaldo. My understanding is that he will not be getting paid an exorbitant amount of money.
In my mind he is a #4 pitcher on a staff. With a fairly club friendly salary, I think that he is worth it. I just don't think that the youngsters are quite ready to take over yet. I think we keep Ubaldo next season but 2014 is his last as an Indian.
depends what we think about McAllister and Kazmir and who we might be able to get on the FA market for his salary.
next year, the rotation looks like:
Masterson - lock
Kluber - lock
McAllister - lock
Kazmir - if his arm is holding up, then yes. if not, then no. I think we get him back on a decent deal but he could bolt.
Bauer?
Salazar?
Carrasco?
Tomlin?
So, the need for Ubaldo is if we lose Kazmir or don't trust those last 4 (or anyone else that we can get for Ubaldo's salary). Personally, I think they just wash their hands of him and move on. And, I have liked him more than most (always thinking he can rebound to be a marginal guy, which he somewhat has but not with the innings-eating too).
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I think Ubaldo and his contract are purged in an effort to make room for Kipnis, Brantley, and Masterson extensions. I don't think he is worth 8mil although we are paying Myers 9mil to do nothing and Reynolds may be overpaid a tad. We'll see but if I had to choose now, Ubaldo would be gone.
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I think Ubaldo and his contract are purged in an effort to make room for Kipnis, Brantley, and Masterson extensions. I don't think he is worth 8mil although we are paying Myers 9mil to do nothing and Reynolds may be overpaid a tad. We'll see but if I had to choose now, Ubaldo would be gone.
and let's not forget the Swisher and Bourn contract kickers (the first year of their deals were less than the rest)
Myers was a $7mil bar tab (because Antonetti must have been drunk)
and I'm okay with Reynolds for what he has done on the year as a whole
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I'm okay with Reynolds for what he has done on the year as a whole
Agree....Reynolds is doing exactly what we expected & paid him to do....Occassionaly hit the long ball like 25 -35 times a year...fill in at first and 3rd and DH...We all full expected him to strike out alot and hit for a low average, but we needed someone with some pop in thier bat....Reynolds is doing what we signed him for...I'll take that everyday with a FA.
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I'm okay with Reynolds for what he has done on the year as a whole
Agree....Reynolds is doing exactly what we expected & paid him to do....Occassionaly hit the long ball like 25 -35 times a year...fill in at first and 3rd and DH...We all full expected him to strike out alot and hit for a low average, but we needed someone with some pop in thier bat....Reynolds is doing what we signed him for...I'll take that everyday with a FA.
looking at the numbers (as he's a hot or cold hitter):
Apr 2nd - May 12th
.291BA/.372OBP/.624SLG 36SO/16BB, 11HR, 6x2B
May 13th - July 14th
.173BA/.265OBP/.241SLG 77SO/22BB, 4HR, 1x2B
much worse than I would have thought. those first 6 weeks still count though and he helped our offense when many of the bats hadn't woken up yet.
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This is Reynolds in a nutshell. He'll have another insanely hot streak like he did to end last season, finish at .230-.240 with 25-30 HR, and be worth the $6 million that he got.
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This is total first-world-problems, but this week of the sports year sucks so bad.
I don't like any of the mlb all star stuff. The MLB all star game is so freaking boring.
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