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I thought I read that Miggy has been playing a little hurt this whole season. If that's true, I don't want to see a healthy version of him in the Tigers lineup.  But yes, if he's out a week or so, we might be able to close the gap in the standings. As for last night, I'm not sure what else we can expect from Ubaldo. He didn't pitch deep into the game, but he only gave up two runs. That's about all we could dream for from him on a given night. Too bad the bats are ice cold. I'm also hoping that the looming suspension of Jhonny Peralta drops soon. He's hitting over .300 and the Tigers don't have another SS that can fill in and be productive. There is a rumor that the Tigers might trade for Alexi Ramierez if they lose Peralta for the season, which would stink, but that would also mean they would be losing a young talent for the future.
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Indians have lost 3 of 4 since the break, and are only 2-1/2 behind in the Central. I don't know if thats more encouraging or discouraging. We seem to be dropping out of the wild card race, if we were ever in it. Another wasted pitching performance last night as the bats stay cold. I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't be looking for bat rather than starting pitching. There's rumors that the White Sox are dangling Alex Rios ... I wonder if they'd consider trading Konerko ( lets forget for a minute that we probably wouldn't want to pay Konerko).
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we had plenty of opportunities to put across more runs last night (and vs. Twins). it's not even that the bats are so cold, it's that they just do not seem to be able to operate small-ball when necessary (which is really weird because the roster constructed looks like a small-ball lineup).
note: yes, stranding Santana at 3B w/ 1 out is the first thing that I thought of when writing the above.
very frustrating because the pitching has been good and we are playing the bad teams. definitely need to start winning these 1 run games.
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I think that the Indians need a solid hitting outfielder (someone who is having a season like Brantley or Bourn but with more power over speed) because Swisher hasn't been getting it done, and a better hitting 1st baseman. Reynolds is a liability at the plate and when Santana plays 1st our catcher spot is a struggle.
If we can find some pop out of 1st base and RF we'd be able to get it done.
Stubbs and Swisher don't get on enough, and Stubbs although fast, doesn't get on enough to be dangerous.
and Reynolds KOs too much and has too low of an OBP
"It has to start somewhere
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What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Depending on the next few days, I would seriously consider selling. The mediocrity the past 3 seasons is very hard to watch. It will probably take 90-95 to win the division. The tigers mess around for the first 4 months, and they usually take off in august and september. Unless the indians plan on spending again in the offseason, or depleting the farm system, there really is no point in fielding a team that only could win 80-85 games. I just don't understand what they are doing from year to year. It's like they don't want to rebuild again, but they're not close to winning a world series... I would much rather be in the cubs or twins situation, where they are stacking the farm with top 50 talent.
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Right or wrong, having another fire sale is not good pub for an organization still trying to repair a damaged relationship.
You can tell me all about the ins and outs of how major league baseball works, and how mid-markets operate, but when you sell off players and get fleeced in deals (here's looking at you, Matt Laporta) the general feedback from fans is not going to be good.
I'm not saying don't look for a deal. I think there are certain players on this team that you can look to deal, but I don't think you can just close down shop.
I'm also against a move for a rental. I think the flip side of my argument against selling, is that you also can't unload your minor league system for a guy who is gone at the end of the year. As was the case with Garza. That's just bad business. Even us Tribe fans understand that.
The bottom line is as this division stands, the Indians are going to have to buck up more money, or get very lucky with prospects if they want to beat Detroit out for the division.
They have Verlander, Cabrera, and Scherzer. We don't.
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Quote:
Unless the indians plan on spending again in the offseason
the Indians (as stands) do plan on spending. but, the spending is on the internal team. internal raises for next year eat up ALL of the contracts expiring.
unless we ship Asdrubal or C.Perez, the team we have is the one we'll get next year (w/o trades and minus Reynolds, Ubaldo).
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I understand what you're saying, but attendance is still awful, 27th out of 30 teams. That is after we spent quite a bit, and are only 2.5 out. I just don't want to be the atlanta hawks of the mlb. Bourn, SWisher, were good signings, but like you said, we will never beat detroit, unless we spend more, or develop our own via trade or the draft. Present day I see us maybe 6th or 7th best in the al.
We did get hosed in the Lee trade, I don't think the Cc was a total disaster, as Brantley is a real good player for us. I don't think you could let past history dictate what you do as an organization. Who knows we could hit the jackpot and trade for phillips, lee, and sizemore again. I know I would much rather gamble again, then sit around and watch .500 baseball every year.
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I know this is an Indians thread, but I have to say, as a Red Sox fan, I'm really annoyed by the fact that the Rays just don't lose baseball games.
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Quote:
I understand what you're saying, but attendance is still awful, 27th out of 30 teams. That is after we spent quite a bit, and are only 2.5 out. I just don't want to be the atlanta hawks of the mlb. Bourn, SWisher, were good signings, but like you said, we will never beat detroit, unless we spend more, or develop our own via trade or the draft. Present day I see us maybe 6th or 7th best in the al.
We did get hosed in the Lee trade, I don't think the Cc was a total disaster, as Brantley is a real good player for us. I don't think you could let past history dictate what you do as an organization. Who knows we could hit the jackpot and trade for phillips, lee, and sizemore again. I know I would much rather gamble again, then sit around and watch .500 baseball every year.
That attendance problem isn't going to be fixed in a year. The organization needs to show some consistency. They took a nice step this year. Although the total payroll number isn't much different than last year (with Hafner, Sizemore and others off the books) the fact remains that they went out and spent the money wisely. I can't knock any of those signings other than Meyers. I just don't think that's enough to win the division. While some of these young guys can get better, does anyone see this group being good enough to be the best in the central next year? Unless Detroit breaks their team up, then it's not happening. So then you're 2 years in. Us Tribe fans know that 2 years in, eventually the team is going to start selling pieces again. That's how it works. I think a lot of Tribe fans see this window as a few years before they start another rebuild, what seems like umpteenth in 10-12 years.
What can change everything is the 2 or 3 pitchers they have in the minors. If they find a stud in there, then I think things change.
As far as attendance goes, it's not going to change if they have fire sales every 3 or 4 years. You give yourself such a small window when you do that and fans aren't going to buy it.
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Red Sox and Rays look like the class of the AL to me. Too bad one will have to win a sudden death play-in game. I sure wish we could steal whoever is making decisions for Tampa in the amateur draft.
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If the Indians are within 2-3 games as the trade deadline approaches, and they decide to be "sellers", imo they would do irreparable damage to their already tenuous relationship with the fans. Doing nothing might be the best course if your two choices are trading top prospects for a rental or being sellers. The pitching is going well and who knows, maybe Reynolds and / or Swisher gets hot again.
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They also need a power hitter from the minors or via trade. Very hard to win in the al, when you don't have a guy to hit 30-35 home runs. It's amazing Chris Davis was had for an 8th inning set-up man. You look at our farm system, there is no one that is even close to helping out as far as hitting goes. Lindor is still in high a ball.
If we get 4-5 games out by next week, I'm in all sell mode. Outside of the draft, it's the only way for this organization to get all-star type talent to win world series.
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It seems as though we have 6-7 starter quality guys right now since Salazar killed it in his debut, and McAllister being back...we have more starters than we have rotational spots...
I feel like theres gotta be an NL team that's looking for pitching that has a hitter that can send the ball deep (especially an outfielder or 1st baseman as where hitters are the most powerful). Nats, Cubs, Brewers, Jays, Royals, Twins, White Sox, possibly Seattle and the Angels could be sellers when the time comes.
There has to be someone that needs a pitcher and would be willing to part with a power hitter.
The whole, don't trade for a rental...sometimes that's the move that can put you over the top for a season. Then when that guy leaves you can go to FA to get a different guy that is a better full year fit.
If you trade someone you wont necessarily use in the next year or two...why not rental someone...
"It has to start somewhere
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What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I know he's limited, but I still love Yan Gomes.
That is all.
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Caught in a run-down between third and home when you're the tying run, and taking a called third strike to end the game. Awesome.
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my takeaways from the game:
(1) Gomes is doing his best to become our starting catcher (and move Santana to 1B/DH)
(2) Chisenhall has figured things out at the plate lately
(3) We might be the best team in MLB at finding ways to lose. Terrible decision-making on the basepaths and just not being able to move guys along when needed. Ugh.
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So you're saying we have the best team at finding ways to lose in the MLB, NFL, and possibly even the NBA?
Because nobody blows 20+ point leads like the Cavs, and the Browns are legendary in the finding ways to lose department.
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that was hyperbole as we likely aren't even it in MLB. the Astros have found quite a few ways to lose games.
i'm just really frustrated with losing all of these 1 run games since the break to teams under .500.
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Quote:
that was hyperbole as we likely aren't even it in MLB. the Astros have found quite a few ways to lose games.
i'm just really frustrated with losing all of these 1 run games since the break to teams under .500.
I know in sports, especially baseball, you never take anything for granted, but these games you almost had to bank on.
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This was the part of the schedule where we were supposed to make hay. What we need is to face a CY winner - is King Felix pitching tonight?
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This was the part of the schedule where we were supposed to make hay. What we need is to face a CY winner - is King Felix pitching tonight?
lefty Joe Saunders
and our pitchers are making hay, it's just that our defense and hitting is putting that hay inside the house and setting it on fire.
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(2) Chisenhall has figured things out at the plate lately
Now if he could just learn to catch ground balls and pop up he might be a everyday 3rd basemen....Sorry he's made me pretty angry over the last week.....LOL..between his defence and Swisher swinging with his eyes closed at every pitch, I swear the other game the pitcher tried to pick off the runner at first, the pitcher threw to first and Swisher swung at home plate...He's tring to hard....GO TRIBE
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well, Chis is only 24yo. so, i'm willing to cut him more slack than 29yo Reynolds.
anyway, gotta love that when we have a "must win" game that we show up and make sure to win it. but, it sure would have been nice to get some of these runs sprinkled across the last few games (same thing happened in Minny with that 7-1 win)
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I don't know if anyone heard this, but watching Yan Gomes today made me think about a highly stupid remark that White Sox announcer Hawk Harrelson said after Gomes got another hit against Chicago, he said that "he's gonna get a chance to play every day...for someone." So it's not gonna be here, huh? But it is after all the Hawk saying it. Gotta suck for him having to call games for his last place team.
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bats came today....
2 straight series we play dead at the plate for two games and blow up for two...idk how I feel about that.
7 against Minnesota after straight games with 2, and then 10 against Seattle after 1 and 3...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
I don't know if anyone heard this, but watching Yan Gomes today made me think about a highly stupid remark that White Sox announcer Hawk Harrelson said after Gomes got another hit against Chicago, he said that "he's gonna get a chance to play every day...for someone." So it's not gonna be here, huh? But it is after all the Hawk saying it. Gotta suck for him having to call games for his last place team.
You gotta figure he doesn't follow the everyday news with the Tribe. Obviously since they are in the division he has to know a good deal though. My guess is he figures Santana is still part of the future at catcher.
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Boy, I completely missed the trade of Garza to the Rangers ... asleep at the switch.
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Boy, I completely missed the trade of Garza to the Rangers ... asleep at the switch.
and the Indians get to miss Garza (since he pitched last night) 
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I don't think I mind missing out on Garza. A look at the Indians record in July puts them at 9-10 for the month so far. In the 9 wins they averaged just shy of 6 runs per game. In the 10 losses, they averaged 3 runs per game. If they had averaged 4 runs per game, they would have (conceivably) gone 12-7 in July, and trail Detroit by 1/2 game right now. If they had averaged 5 runs per game, they would have (conceivably) gone 14-5 over that stretch, and be ahead of Detroit by 1-1/2. I know you can't assume victories using stats in hindsight, but doesn't it follow that our pitching - for the most part - has been doing its job and what we really need is a bat?
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I meant that we don't have to face him. He pitched last night and we have a 3 game set against Texas this weekend.
as for the trade, I feel that the Rangers paid way too much for a short rental. I'm surprised they were so willing to do it after the Cliff Lee deal backfired a bit (they thought for sure they'd re-sign him and he left anyway).
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I knew what you meant - I was just making the point that I have just about done a 180 on what we should focus on if we are "buyers" at the trade deadline. I had been thinking SP, now I'm not so sure.
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ok. certainly our rotation has been pretty stable recently. hopefully, it lasts. though, we still aren't getting great IP out of many of them per start, it's still good to see how well they've pitched.
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could use another lefty arm in the pen.
We only got one in Hill and he's spotty at best
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I would still go after another starter. I like Masterson and Kluber, but Ubaldo and Kazmir usually only go 5 innings, and its hard to put your faith in them, even though Kazmir has been on fire of late. If Mcalister turns it around, he will have a chance to be the 3rd. Either way the farm system is so thin, especially in Columbus, it's hard to imagine the indians making a big splash. I don't see them giving up LIndor or Salazar in any deal. I think LIndor has a chance to be playing with the team next summer, he is really tearing it up at Akron in his first 9 games. That Asdrubal trade will probably happen with St Louis at some point. Maybe we could get some pitching through Asdrubal.
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So just looking at salaries this year,
Michael Brantley $527,000
Mark Reynolds $6,000,000
A bit of a crime if you ask me
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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The Indians new what they were getting into.... Here's his breakdown from the first four months in 2012: April .143 (9-for-63) with no homers and three RBI; May .306 (11-for-36), two homers, 11 RBI; June .217 (17-for-78) four homers, 21 RBI and July .207 (82-for-17) four homers, 21 RBI. In the first four months of last season, Reynolds hit .208 (54-for-208) with eight homers and 32 RBI. Here's what he's hitting in the first four months of this season: April .301 (25-for-93), eight homers, 22 RBI; May .218 (22-for-101), five, 19; June .187 (17-for-91), two, five, July: .106 (5-for-47), zero homers, zero RBI. Overall, Reynolds is hitting .214 (19-for-322) with 14 homers and 46 RBI. http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2013/07/have_the_indians_thought_about.html
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I hear you with the big bat, but the batting average surprises me, bear with me on the statistical clutter.
Indians by batting average
Jason Kipnis 91 348 57 103 25 3 15 62 179 47 86 21 .296 .376 .514 .891 4.2
Michael Bourn 74 304 42 88 14 1 3 28 113 18 73 13 .289 .333 .372 .705 1.5
Michael Brantley 97 354 48 100 14 2 7 51 139 29 43 10 .282 .338 .393 .731 1.7
Ryan Raburn 58 161 27 44 12 0 11 31 89 22 45 0 .273 .371 .553 .924 1.7
Carlos Santana 95 331 43 90 26 1 11 45 151 57 69 1 .272 .380 .456 .836 3.6
Yan Gomes 42 141 22 38 7 2 7 22 70 8 29 2 .270 .303 .496 .799 1.0
Mike Aviles 77 229 40 61 10 0 5 27 86 11 29 7 .266 .298 .376 .674 0.9
Asdrubal Cabrera 78 301 47 77 22 2 8 39 127 22 73 5 .256 .315 .422 .737 1.8
Nick Swisher 86 320 47 78 16 1 11 33 129 47 83 0 .244 .346 .403 .749 1.6
Drew Stubbs 97 301 40 73 16 2 7 37 114 26 95 10 .243 .305 .379 .684 1.3
Lonnie Chisenhall 52 183 17 44 12 0 6 25 74 9 35 1 .240 .284 .404 .688 0.8
Mark Reynolds 94 322 40 69 7 0 15 47 121 41 117 3 .214 .306 .376 .682 0.4
Jason Giambi
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Also a plug fort the transplanted fans, mlb at bat app, $2.99 a month you can listen to every tribe game
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What I am saying is Reynolds' production has been the almost exactly the same last year as it was this year up to this point. Yet, the Indians signed him to that contract.
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