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So, what are you trying to prove/ argue?

Nada, just talking stats and figures, mainly the discrepancy in production and cost between Brantley and Reynolds

JC

A minimum 2 of 3 from the Rangers ain't bad at all.

Is there any more debate on who our ace is? He's left the game 6 times without giving up an earned run; 4 times, 1 run; 3 times 2 runs.

In 22 starts, 13 times he has given up 2 runs or less.

Gross...in a good way.

Indeed. Nothing more satisfying that a 1-0 win in baseball.

...and conversely, nothing more frustrating losing 0-1.

I wonder if they will make a run at Cliff Lee? I would be surprised if philly didn't sell. they need to rebuild in a enormous way. Lee is signed thru 15, he is very expensive, but could make us very formidable against anyone if he was acquired.

If he is traded, Philly is gonna have to eat of a good portion of that giant contract.

Plus, Lee has a no trade clause for 20 teams. Wouldn't be surprised if we're on it. He'd be nice though.

Who would get bumped from the rotation....McAllister?

Probably Mcalister or Ubaldo. I think Lee would wave his no trade clause. He has to know philly is past their prime. I would expect Manuel to get fired at the end of the year. Ryan Howard has a bad contract as well, and he is always hurt. I'm sure the Phillies would want Lindor for Lee. If the Indians want to contend for the world series in the next few years, they just might have to trade him. The only thing I worry about Lee is his age. At some point he will begin to slow down.

It's not gonna be Ubaldo....

...Now that I think of it. What a horrible name.

Cliff Lee likes Philly from what I gather.

Plus the no-trade teams are probably teams that are normally in the mix come this time of year. NY, Bos, LA, Tex., etc. Teams with money that could grab him in a moment's notice without his consent. Baltimore is also supposed to be in the mix, but then again, when the number is 20, that could be anyone. I think Cleveland is on the list because I think he left on bad terms even though it was a trade. Maybe I'm wrong.

When you choose 20 of 30 teams in your no-trade clause, you tend to pigeon-hole yourself. I think that was by design.

I'm sure he likes philly, but he will never win anything the rest of his career there. If winning means anything to him, he should approve a trade to a contender. That window is closed in Philly.

Well then who has a better chance at winning? Philly or the other 9 smaller market/perennial bad teams that normally tend to sell when their team has not shot at the playoffs? PIT, MINN, KC, MIA, SD, CUBS, HOU, MIL, COL? Maybe Cleveland is in there? Maybe not.

They may be older, but there is more of a shot in Philly that I think you give credit...at least against those 9 or so other teams.

Masterson had another quality outing. Joe Smith did what he needed to do and Perez closed it without my blood pressure rising to the point of needing meds. I agree the one run loses are frustrating, but the one run wins are fun to watch. Both pitchers brought their A game last night. I just Swisher would take a swing where he actually hits the ball. He's really struggling.

JC

I think I agree with this ...

**********

Smart play for Tribe at the deadline may be to stand pat - for now

Jul 28, 2013

By: T.J. Zuppe
ESPNCleveland.com

The major league trade deadline presents an opportunity for clubs in contention to get better and teams that are struggling to look towards the future with younger talent. The landscape sets up for buyers and sellers to talk trades, with both sides ideally getting whatever it is they feel makes them a better team – for the present or the future.

However, over the last two years, that dynamic has changed with the addition of a second wild card in both the American and National League.

With far more buyers than sellers, the hope of getting a true difference maker at the deadline without surrendering the very best in your minor leagues is just about gone.

Take a guy like Matt Garza, traded from the Chicago Cubs to the Texas Rangers. The righty is playoff tested veteran arm but is also an injury risk. The Rangers paid the price of acquiring an ace-like arm, when in reality, Garza is a product of a slim market with far too many teams still in contention.

He is probably more in the range of a number two or three starter and likely is not a piece that alone would push anyone into title contention.

With the reality of a rough landscape in front of them, Cleveland Indians general manager Chris Antonetti is faced with a tough decision. Buy all in on a Tribe team hanging on in the Central behind an underachieving Detroit Tiger team? Or would it be better suited to stand pat and readdress the situation next month.

The answer will probably frustrate Indians fans, but very likely, it makes far more sense to hold their position for the time being.

The warts of this Tribe team are obvious. They need help in their bullpen and could probably use another middle-of-the-order run-producer in their lineup.

You could even make the case that another starting pitcher could not hurt.

All are true, but with the way the deadline is shaping up, are those opportunities truly out there to make this club better? I am starting to doubt it.

Names like stud-ace Cliff Lee or slugging outfielder Giancarlo Stanton are a pipe-dream. Instead, the pitchers like Jake Peavy and Bud Norris are being bantered about as the top of the class.

Really? Are they that much better than what the Indians already have?

Even a hitter I have discussed for a while, Alex Rios of the Chicago White Sox, is not exactly a difference-making slugger. But Chicago will be asking for talent in return like he is. And why shouldn’t they?

With so many teams craving roster improvements, holding out to the highest bidder is exactly what they should do.

So what is Antonetti to do? This team, as currently constructed, is not good enough to take down the Tigers without Cleveland playing above their heads, and Detroit playing well below their means.

But sitting within striking distance of the division crown, can you afford to do nothing? For now, yes.

At least until August. By the middle of next month, the number of sellers could more than double. Clubs more than eight games out of a playoff berth will be forced to raise the white flag. And at that point, the waiver trade deadline comes into play.

Teams will dangle players and trades can be made while clearing waivers. Conceivably, Cleveland will be near the bottom in terms of teams contending. That means clubs like the Tigers would be unable to block any deals made next month.

The only teams that could would be ones below the Tribe in the standings.

Sure, holding on until next month seems like an eternity. And to some, it will feel like Antonetti has given up on making this team better.

But with the way the landscape has changed over the last two seasons, it may truly be the smartest play.

*T.J. Zuppe covers the Cleveland Indians for ESPN 850 WKNR

I agree .... plus, I don't know if the pitching staff is stable and deep enough right now to win it all right now.

We really need to find another starting pitcher, and maybe 1 or 2 relief guys we can truly count on. We could also use another bat, Tough to fill all of those holes through trades.

We have some interesting guys in the Minors who should probably be our focus right now. Let's see what Salazar can do the rest of the way. If he pans out, then we could have a rotation led off by Masterson, McAllister, Kluber, and Salazar. That could be a young, and potent top 4. Add in the potential of guys like Carrasco and Bauer, and there's some really interesting possibilities for the future.

The bullpen had issues this season, but we have quality arms in there who, hopefully, will recover their previous form over the rest of this season. Having Smith, Pestano, and Perez was as close to automatic as anything in baseball, and hopefully whatever issues have found their ways into this section of the bullpen will work out over the rest of the season.

I actually kinda like our chances to stay in this if we can get the bullpen straightened out. I don't want to give up a guy like Salazar, though, to get a so-so bullpen guy.

Our starting pitching is fine. Masterson is an ace. Kluber is a number 2/3, McAllister when healthy is a 2/3 and Kazmir is a 2/3. If we stop thinking of Jimenez as the #2 pitcher on the staff and realize that he is really #5 then you can accept that our starting pitching is fine.

Our lineup could use a little help but it is adequate. I would not use any top prospects to get a bat. We have some good hitters who are struggling. We have had some bad games but we put up enough runs. A couple guys get hot and ...

Our bullpen is our achilles heel. If we want to make the playoffs we need help here. It looks like Perez is coming around. Personally, I think Pestano needs time on the DL. I don't have much faith in Smith this year. Allen is solid. The rest are pretty worthless imo.

I would hope that we could get a good middle relief guy for some 2nd tier minor leagers. Heck, I would give up Jimenez in a heartbeat to upgrade the bullpen.

j/c
Eight innings and 2 hits for Jimenez is what I've been hoping for lately, Gomes called a good game. It was good to see him work through a tough spot in the 5th. And, he's getting a little run support, albeit later in the game. Swisher looked like he remembered how to swing a bat today. And, WHAT A CATCH by Raeburn in the 8th!!!!
Go Tribe!!

That writer is clueless in my opinion. The indians have one of the best assets in baseball in Lindor. The Tigers got Miguel for 3 bozos that never amounted to anything in baseball. Maybin was decent for a bit, but he has bounced from several teams. Miller was a huge bust. Everything Ive read says Lindor is can't miss. If we traded him and a few low level prospects to Miami, I'm sure we could trade for Stanton. A lot of these teams are selling prized players with years of control for multiple prospects. JUstin Upton and Gio Gonzalez were traded just to name a few. Unless LIndor could help this team in the next year or so, I would have his name out there. I would pass on Lee however. Too damn old.

It's a seller's market right now.

I want the Tribe to get better, but they need to be smart about it.

The way it is shaping up, they are going to be one of the top teams in terms of waiver wire, right? What I mean by that is that they will be one of the first in line for claiming someone, because of all the contending teams, they are the ones with the lower record?

I personally don't think they should have to give up Salazar, Bauer, Lindor, etc... to get a little better.

I have absolutely no idea who will be put on waivers, maybe nobody, but I think that's probably where we will look.

that might be true at the the deadline, but you may be able to do something in the offseason, or next trade deadline if we are in contention. I know I would really be calling the marlins for Giancarlo. He would easily be our cleanup hitter, and the offense would be world series caliber.

j/c

Indians Interested In Josh Outman

he Indians have held serious talks with the Rockies about pitcher Josh Outman in their pursuit of a lefty reliever, writes Joel Sherman of the New York Post.

Outside of a couple of Triple-A stints, Outman has compiled a 4.50 ERA, 9.7 K/9, 3.1 BB/9, 0.47 HR/9, and 46.8% groundball rate in 38 relief innings for the Rockies. Lefties have hit .218/.274/.303 in 84 plate appearances against the 28-year-old this year, and Outman has struck out almost 36% of them. Drafted by the Phillies in the 10th round in '05, Outman went to Oakland in the '08 Joe Blanton deal. The Rockies acquired Outman and Guillermo Moscoso for Seth Smith in January 2012. The Rockies, currently six games out, would have to decide whether they could part with Outman, who is under team control through 2015. The club also has southpaws Rex Brothers and the recently-recalled Jeff Francis in its bullpen.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/indians-interested-in-josh-outman.html

At least he has a very appropriate relief pitcher last name.

A-Rod never was suspended for ped's I don't believe, so I think it would be ludicrous from mlb to think they could get a lifetime ban. Braun has been lying for the past 18 months, and only got 65 games, but they say A-Rod's situation is much worse as far as evidence.

You're right, kinda. For positive tests the suspensions are 50, 100 and then lifetime. But those are tied directly to testing results. There is writing in the CBA that allows MLB to impose their own PED-related penalty regardless of a positive test (but they better have REAL evidence to back it up).

And yes, from everything we hear, MLB has ARod under their thumb with the amount of evidence. And on top of that, they also have evidence ARod tried to interfere with their investigation (rumor is he tried paying off a few witnesses).

Plus, ARod was already caught lying before. Didn't be admit to Katie Curic that he used before? I'm sure MLB wants to hit him a little extra for that one. Plus, they know his age and don't want him geting near Hank or Barry's all time HR mark.

If you follow the 50-100-lifetime model, I can see why they hit Braun the way they did. He got 50 for his role with Biogenesis and then 15 on top to round out the season and maybe for that fake-but-real-test he skipped over on a technicality. And while 65 agmes doesn't sound like a lot, it really comes out to a $3.3 milllion fine and a complete destruction of his reputation. That's HUGE. Sure, not as large as the Brewers organization would like, since they still need to pay the guy for another 5-7 years, but that's their mess.

5 in a row thanks to a towering walk off HR by Giambi and a solid outting by ZMac. Man this team is fun to watch. They get in a slump that makes you scratch your head every once in a while, but all in all they have been right in the thick of things with heavily favored Detroit all season.

If we can solve Detroit and take those upcoming series, things could get really interesting...

The bad thing is that it almost always seems like whenever we win, so does Detroit.

The good thing is that it seems like every time we lose, so does Detroit.

Tonight Detroit was off, so we gain 1/2 game on the Tigers. We have to start beating the Tigers when we play them though.We have a 4 game series coming up with the Tigers (at home) starting August 5th ... and we need to take that series.

0.5GB of Baltimore for the 2nd wild card slot (as we passed Texas over the weekend)

2nd Wild Card hunt: TB, Baltimore, Cleveland, Texas, NYY

NYY - always dangerous but injuries catching up with them.
Texas - falling apart right now and their hitting has been subpar all year

TB & Baltimore both have more talent then us, but they also play in the AL East in September and will be beating up on each other (and have NYY and Boston and Toronto).

It's actually feasible we could fight for that slot. I wouldn't have thought that a month ago.

Yeah, our September looks very winnable. I know you probably shouldn't say that because sometimes those easy games don't turn out easy, but both the Tribe and Detroit set up nice for that last month.

If you told me in March that this team would be a few games out in August, and half a game out of the WC, we all would have taken it.

Yeah, hoping we can keep in the thick of it. Didn't we hit Detroit in August last year around August, and that's where we went into a tailspin for the rest of the season? Hopefully we can hang with them.

At any rate, this team sure is streaky!

September is incredibly winnable.

Only 6 games against teams with winning records, and 3 of them are against Detroit.

If the windians can make it past August still in the hunt...its going to be an exciting September

Quote:

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we beat Verlander on July 26th last year. after that game, we went into a tailspin from which we didn't recover (11 game losing streak to start it with the Twins, Royals, Tigers, and Twins again. After that streak, we started a 15 losses in 16 game streak less than a week later. Overall in that stretch we went 5-28. It was bad. Berry, berry bad).

---

Talk about a punch to the gut. A guy I work with is a huge Indians fan like I am, we talk Tribe every day at work almost year round, I remember the high we were on that day after we beat Verlander, so excited that this was not going to be a repeat of the previous summer....and then the floor completely dropped.

The Sox scratched Peavy from today's start. Peavy out Looks like he'll be traded today or tomorrow. It would be funny if he only had to walk across the field to pitch for the Tribe (not saying I want him, but I've never seen something like that happen).

In place of Peavy, the White Sox will call up and start 25-year-old Andre Rienzo. When he takes the mound, Rienzo will become the first native of Brazil ever to pitch in a major-league game.