Now let's be honest for a second. If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms. I personally think it's just a crazy thug but on a week with the whole Zimmerman trial going on I think it's at least worth a discussion.
Is it possible that this man choose this house because he knew a small white women lived there making it easier for him to rob? Is that not profiling?
Quote: If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms
Hm.... the classic anti-PC argument "if x was y, then z." I don't see the relevance.
As for punishment, life in prison is disproportionate to the crime. But if that was my wife, I'd definitely hunt this guy down and give him more than a concussion.
Quote: If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms
Hm.... the classic anti-PC argument "if x was y, then z." I don't see the relevance.
As for punishment, life in prison is disproportionate to the crime. But if that was my wife, I'd definitely hunt this guy down and give him more than a concussion.
Wrong. It doesn't take letters to figure out the guy is a thug and needs to be punished, color be damned.
Also, if it were a white guy doing that to a black woman, he'd get punished AND have to deal with a race crime conviction as well. Sad to say, but it's true.
Life in prison is NOT disproportionate to the crime. We need thugs like this, white, black, hispanic, or martian........out of our society.
Did you watch the video?
I don't know where, or if, race gets involved. I do know a brutal beating as shown in the video makes me feel life in prison is too good for the thug.
I did watch the video. His actions are deplorable. But the rule of law demands a punishment commensurate with the crime, not simply for the symmetry of justice, but for the sake of maintaining a well ordered society. When the citizens believe the rule of law is irrational, things start to break down.... Or, perhaps this is only a matter of taste, and I'm the irrational one. I don't know... but life in prison for this crime strikes me as unjustified. Personally, though, I share your disgust and would desire as much revenge on this individual as possible.
I felt it was relevant considering other events going on. I've seen others discuss race pertaining to this heinous act and felt like it was worth a conversation. That's what message boards are for right? If it was a white dude beating on a black woman like this then everyone would be talking race.
It is astonishing how little value some people put on the lives and property of others. What a revolting crime.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
It was taken by a camera disguised as something else and as I recall, it was placed on a mantle. Pretty neat little obscure cam. The husband and cops actually watched the vid together at the scene.
As for the actions.............disgusting, but they all pretty much are.
Wonder if she/he now wish they had a small firearm hidden within 15 feet of where this happened? Or did they and she couldn't get to it?
If caught this thug will do time, probably 8-15 years, more if he has previous felonies.
The crime is horrendous, but these things happen around the world on a daily basis. Does this justify life in prison? No, not in my opinion but had she killed him in the act it would have been justified...
SO, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?
Simply because the attack ended and he left, the law now protects HIS life? In a "JUST" society, the husband would have the right to track him down and beat him, or kill him for this. BUT that would be chaos and only the strong and those with the most criminal mentalities would survive or thrive in that kind of society.
I can see how some think this should be a hate crime. I personally believe we are all racists to a degree. I'm white. I also have life long black friends. We all have used the "N" word, still do and probably always will. Is it an ugly word? ABSOLUTELY! But so is "white boy", "cracker", "honky" and a plethora of other words when used in a racial or otherwise aggressive context. But at the end of the day, they are just words.
I feel racism can be translated into words and actions, but true racism is felt on a more primal level. The fear of difference. He is not like me, so he is ______.... Rather you fill in the blank with bad, better, richer, poorer, evil, good... it all boils down to being different. And we are ALL different.
The old hermit guy up the road is different because he has separated himself from the herd and prefers to be alone. SO HE MUST BE EVIL! Not really but you get what I'm getting at.
Personally I think all these laws defining "HATE" crimes are a farce. The crime is a crime. We can never truly know what any individual is feeling when they commit a crime. If they use words in a racists or anti-gay way while committing the crime it somehow makes it more brutal? What about black on black crime where the "N" word is used by one or more parties, is that a hate crime? Or two gay guys in a fight calling each other names, is that a hate crime?
The REAL problem in this country is the thought that you can legislate away your problems. People will always be different from each other, therefore there will always be some degree of racism or bigotry. Laws meant to protect the weak always seem to somehow empower the criminal.
If you want to reduce crime, force people to be parents again. Let parents beat their kids butts without shame. Reinforce old morals like respecting your elders, acting civil at all times, showing manners, etc....
You will never end crime. Not as long as basic needs are not being met, financial inequalities exist or people interact in any way with each other.
But with a proper "old fashion" upbringing a lot of these new shocking crimes would go away. JMHO
I see it as a crime against a women too. Once again there is a point behind this. My sister lives in New Jersey and knew nothing about this because no one is discussing it. I find that disturbing. White man attacks a black women like this and we are on the verge of a race riot. I never bring the race card into anything in my life and have not 1, not 2, not 3 but quite a lot of black friends so I don't have a personal agenda. I'm just tired of double standard ALL the time.
Quote: I see it as a crime against a women too. Once again there is a point behind this. My sister lives in New Jersey and knew nothing about this because no one is discussing it. I find that disturbing. White man attacks a black women like this and we are on the verge of a race riot. I never bring the race card into anything in my life and have not 1, not 2, not 3 but quite a lot of black friends so I don't have a personal agenda. I'm just tired of double standard ALL the time.
I think we're all tired of the double standard the media has when it comes to ignoring crimes perpetrated by young black males.
Quote: I see it as a crime against a women too. Once again there is a point behind this. My sister lives in New Jersey and knew nothing about this because no one is discussing it. I find that disturbing. White man attacks a black women like this and we are on the verge of a race riot. I never bring the race card into anything in my life and have not 1, not 2, not 3 but quite a lot of black friends so I don't have a personal agenda. I'm just tired of double standard ALL the time.
I saw this on Inside Edition last night, so saying that it's not reported is outrageous. Maybe your sister is just uninformed of it.
All I want to say about this that the Mother was very strong and I'm glad neither the daughter nor the baby was hurt.
It was taken by a camera disguised as something else and as I recall, it was placed on a mantle. Pretty neat little obscure cam. The husband and cops actually watched the vid together at the scene.
As for the actions.............disgusting, but they all pretty much are.
Wonder if she/he now wish they had a small firearm hidden within 15 feet of where this happened? Or did they and she couldn't get to it?
And if she could have, the perp would have killed both her and the daughter with it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Quote: You are determined to spur this argument aren't you ? We get that you are against the gun culture in this country . Got it !
He's not actually wrong. Clearly the dude had the jump on her and having a gun within 15 feet would not only be poor gun safety, would have also costed this woman her life.
I fail to understand how the statement could possibly be more clear.
The lack of desire to defend oneself is a tendency that is likely to result in siring fewer children, and/or to not be around to teach them this philosophy.
You may notice that the word "gun" is not used anywhere in that statement.
Quote: You are determined to spur this argument aren't you ? We get that you are against the gun culture in this country . Got it !
He's not actually wrong. Clearly the dude had the jump on her and having a gun within 15 feet would not only be poor gun safety, would have also costed this woman her life.
Except, being pro-gun as you say, those of use with weapons, don't just leave them out exposed on the table. The perpetrator didn't know he was being video taped, so I presume when he went upstairs she could have easily retrieved a firearm had she had one hidden nearby, that is the key though, MOST people put them in the nightstand or closet. Which in this case may have been too difficult to get to.
Another point, isn't New Jersey anti-gun? Which I believe is where this took place, therefore the perpetrator probably had little concern that he would be facing the wrong end of a barrel.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Looking at the inside of the house, it looks like the kitchen is the next closet room. So within a 15 foot radius she either has to hide a gun in her family room or kitchen, neither very good places to hold a weapon as any responsible gun owner would know. I also believe there's too many variables to truly predict what would happen, but my guess would be she doesn't use the gun because of her daughter in the same room, or since she's visibly shaken if she does go to get the gun he hears her and this becomes even worse.
Now let's be honest for a second. If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms. I personally think it's just a crazy thug but on a week with the whole Zimmerman trial going on I think it's at least worth a discussion.
I don't consider myself a racist.. but unfortunatly, I think you are correct, if the colors were the other way around, we'd have riots in the streets...
I actually hate suggesting this, but maybe,, just maybe it's time to turn the tables and maybe white folks should start riots when a white person is beaten down like this by a black person.
Damn, I hated saying that.. I mean, I really hated even thinking it. I'm disgusted with myself for thinking it much less writing it down.
But is that what it's going to take to get this whole thing on a more even level?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Now let's be honest for a second. If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms. I personally think it's just a crazy thug but on a week with the whole Zimmerman trial going on I think it's at least worth a discussion.
I don't consider myself a racist.. but unfortunatly, I think you are correct, if the colors were the other way around, we'd have riots in the streets...
I actually hate suggesting this, but maybe,, just maybe it's time to turn the tables and maybe white folks should start riots when a white person is beaten down like this by a black person.
It was taken by a camera disguised as something else and as I recall, it was placed on a mantle. Pretty neat little obscure cam. The husband and cops actually watched the vid together at the scene.
As for the actions.............disgusting, but they all pretty much are.
Wonder if she/he now wish they had a small firearm hidden within 15 feet of where this happened? Or did they and she couldn't get to it?
And if she could have, the perp would have killed both her and the daughter with it.
Sorry. I meant a well placed, hidden firearm. So your thinking us gun nuts keep our weapons.............1 on each endtable, another on the coffee table, etc.
Hopefully this never happens to you or a loved one. But in the rare event it does, just turn the other cheek and hopefully, you can be thankful that this punk didn't beat your wife and daughter to death.
After the crying stops, generally in a year or 3, AND your family can get somewhat of a good nights sleep, you should be well versed in your firearm you purchased while your wife was in the hospital.
Most look at this vid as "HORRIBLE", and it is. Actually seeing the act instead of hearing it on the news(no vid) or reading it in the paper is always "MORE HORRIBLE" on the eyes and soul. They're muchmuch easier on the eyes and soul when you only have to hear a quick news clip or read about em, AND you or your family weren't the recipients. However, ALL ASSAULTS are like this, and in reality, from what I gather, she got off OK.
Quote: I fail to understand how the statement could possibly be more clear.
The lack of desire to defend oneself is a tendency that is likely to result in siring fewer children, and/or to not be around to teach them this philosophy.
Okay, I was just wondering if there was anything more than speculation to this claim, something like a scientific study that demonstrates that a higher proportion of the population is willing to defend itself now than at any time previous and that this is trending upward.
Quote: You may notice that the word "gun" is not used anywhere in that statement.
But wasn't self defense with a gun the premise of the argument to which you were responding? Come on, don't invent these red herrings. I get enough of that from a2d.
Listen I don't even think this is a race issue but I was making a point that no one can deny would happen. This Robert Zimmerman trial has got me thinking about this more and more. The Black community see him as a white racist where as I see him as a Hispanic man with a superiority complex. The man is a wannabe cop that calls 911 at any sign of danger and thinks he is the law in his own world. That was his downfall if you believe it wasn't in self defense.
Regardless even though some of you think it's unrelated I personally don't see it that way. If black people can call racism every time it's white on black crime then it's only fair to discuss the issue when it's done in reverse. Trust me I usually stay away from race related topics because I live my own life and everyone is a potential friend to me. I don't care who you are. However if I see something that I feel needs to be addressed I'll throw it out there and see how others feel. I think by having the old "here we go the old if X was Y" mentality only tells me one (or both) of two things: Your are either black or your a type of liberal that won't even consider the issue. Either one is fine with me but ignoring the issue is not going to make my feeling of living in a double standard society go away.
Self-defense, With A Gun, is what I was responding to, correct.
However, the statement about the lack of desire to defend oneself stands alone, I would think it would be self-evident that such a tendency is likely to "die out" over time.
It is You who "inserted" the gun into the statement as an unnecessary and misleading item - the use of any particular tool is too specific to relate to the general concept, and would, in and of itself, invalidate it. At least on the genetic end. I suppose a child could be taught to never defend themselves with a gun, but a baseball bat would be OK.
IMO this tendency has both a genetic and an environmental component.
Have you ever considered that African Americans and other minorities get these type of cases more publicity and have riots because they're very well organized and have leaders like Rev. Jackson (Your thoughts on him don't pertain to this talk), Julian Bond the entire NCAAP organization and organizations like it. Also George Zimmerman is just as white as he is hispanic.
Now let's be honest for a second. If the skin color was the other way around this would be considered a race crime and the black community would be up in arms. I personally think it's just a crazy thug but on a week with the whole Zimmerman trial going on I think it's at least worth a discussion.
I don't consider myself a racist.. but unfortunatly, I think you are correct, if the colors were the other way around, we'd have riots in the streets...
I actually hate suggesting this, but maybe,, just maybe it's time to turn the tables and maybe white folks should start riots when a white person is beaten down like this by a black person.
You guys did. Remember?
I'm not at all sure what you mean
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I think by having the old "here we go the old if X was Y" mentality only tells me one (or both) of two things: Your are either black or your a type of liberal that won't even consider the issue.
It's not about race or politics or an unwillingness to consider issues.
It's that you're forcing race into an issue that it really doesn't belong in.
You don't find it odd that when you watched that video, your most prominent thought was 'If it was a white guy and a black girl...'?
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