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Shouldn't there be a thread on this guy already?!? 
Picture today from an off-site practice session.
Held...maybe this will put to rest the assumptions some have made about Weeden's work ethic...
Anyone know who is pictured here?...
The guy to the left of Weeds looks like Justin Blackmon. So this might be guys from the Oklahoma State team.
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???
Reginald Smith
Greg Little
Brandon Weeden
Keith Toston
Hubert Anyiam
???
Deji Karim
???
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He is throwing when noone is rushing him.
I don't think that was the point. Pressure on Weeden last year was not an over whelming issue. It was the system, it required a lot of experience n quick decisions in a crowded triangular area - combined with the fact the Coaching staff (Shurmur in particular) was in a panic mode on losing his job. Demanded Weeden to NOT Make a mistake resulting in an INT. This made him hesitate and hold onto the ball. Lets face it criticize him all you want fact of the matter he was so so uncomfortable in the system and the situation laid before him...along with many rookies n youngsters starting.
He is very comfortable in this system. It doesn't make it 100% assured he will be great. Actually it eliminates any excuses. We will see him in his best environment.
JMHO for all us fans I hope he KICKS IT! 
Great post. I'd have to agree with it really. Our pass protection was very stable and consistent, but maybe it's the thought of getting hit/the fear (kind of like a Braylon Edwards crossing the middle or a pass attempt to MoMass after he get laid. Fear can cause a millisecond delay in decision making, and a millisecond is all that is needed it seems this day in the NFL for something bad to happen.
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He is very comfortable in this system. It doesn't make it 100% assured he will be great. Actually it eliminates any excuses. We will see him in his best environment.
So true! Excuses will be limited, to maybe not even ANY, if he doesn't take leaps forward and improves. In any case, we should be able to truly evaluate Weeden around mid-season or a lil sooner IMO.
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which might be what banner and Lombardi want anyway.
They would not have made our D Front 7 into a strength. And get us the best slot/possession WR since possibly Sid Vicious (07).
i would argue that our DL was a strength before they got here and we already had a strength in DQ and Robertson. We just needed one other OLB to have a great front 7.
Bess was a great pickup! I hope he is our steal of the draft.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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OK so maybe i am wrong.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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Camp. One week away. 
Can't wait!!! Light it up, Weeden!
Here is my view on Weeden:
He was a terrible pick for the team last year. He was not at all what we should have looked for in a QB based on the type of offense we ran. Luck, RG3, or Wilson would have been ideal (esp RG3 or Wilson) IMO Weeden was water and our team was oil. We picked the one guy out of the top 6 QB's that we had no business picking. (Actually, we had no shot at Luck) so 1/5. This is also why we had to install a new offense.
Weeden has a lot of flaws and he was a very old rookie however...
Hopefully- the offense we install this year is build around Weeden's strengths. If, we do that he could end up being a really good system QB. I don't expect him to ever be a pro bowl type QB on his own merits but I could be wrong.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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J/K Who's the reciever with the seeing eye dog ? 
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We had no shot at Luck, and blew any chance we had at RG3. (Though most people said I was nuts for wanting to trade for him even at the high price)
No one knew that Wilson would be what he turned out to be. (Though I did say that I wanted to draft him if we didn't draft a 1st round QB) Even I didn't expect Wilson to be what he turned out to be though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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(Though most people said I was nuts for wanting to trade for him even at the high price)
Does it help any if I still say that you are/were nuts for that?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/K
Who's the reciever with the seeing eye dog ?
Looks like Benjamin.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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You started a new thread for this? This couldn't have went in one of the several existing Weeden threads? Man, you got it bad! 
I hope we can trust you that Weeden was actually working out on his own recently. I have not heard of him doing so previously and questioned his work ethic. I will take all that back if he is actually working out on his own and not question his work ethic again.
Happy now?
Probably not. 
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J/K
Who's the reciever with the seeing eye dog ?
Looks like Benjamin.
Maybe after being stung by a bee.
That's Deji Karim.
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That's Deji Karim.
Is that some sort of code I have to decipher?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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That's Deji Karim.
Is that some sort of code I have to decipher?
Yes, here is the decoded version:
Abdul-Gafar Olatokumbo Ayodeji Lamar Karim
#gmstrong
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Abdul-Gafar Olatokumbo Ayodeji Lamar Karim
Does penicillin work to clear that up?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We had no shot at Luck, and blew any chance we had at RG3. (Though most people said I was nuts for wanting to trade for him even at the high price)
The majority of posters on the other board wanted the Browns to get RGIII, even at that high of a cost.
RGIII is a dynamic player. He is very skilled. Very smooth. He is a media darling. His teammates like him. He great for marketing.
On the other hand, I do think there is a concern. Before the draft, I questioned his frame. Said he was too skinny. Worried about durability issues. Got some heated replies. I understand his upper body is buff, but his lower legs are unbelievably skinny. His calves are non-existent and his legs all the way up to his knees are tiny. His thighs are a little better, but not much. Those twigs look like could be snapped in half at any moment.
I think RGIII is a very good player, but his reckless style of play and his toothpick legs lead me to believe that injuries will be a significant part of his career.
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I don't know man, any QB in the league, even the fat Worthlessburger, takes a few clean hits and all the pounding he did (especially just coming into the league) going to suffer regardless of frame size - give the kid credit and hopefully he's learned from his mistakes and knows when to toss the ball away, to slide and etc.
The big saying with RG3 goes, if he continues to get hit like that, he'll have a Barry Sanders like career. Short and sweet.
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Of course not on this board on the time...but as you know I was probably the biggest and earliest pimp of RG3. Thin legs on a QB doesn't really have any relevance DE yes.
He is not Italian...must be Fra-Gi-Lee.
The talk was of course about bringing him here. Won't go too far on this debate but will chime in at least once.
We had an excellent OL for him...big difference from what he had in Wash. Of course our dumb system would have been bad for him as well as Weeden. Still he is a better pocket passer than Weeden an has excellent explosion so that his drops would be pretty spot on.
I envisioned him sitting in the pocket and if it started to break down be able to take off and pick up first downs out of nothing or even better with a running pass to somebody down field.
Not the pistol offense used by Shanahan. Actually I think Shanahan was almost desperate in his use of RG3 rather than preserve him for long term he played him as if it was NOW or NEVER for him...which it probably was.
As for the cost.
RG3 is a 10+ year long term Franchise QB.
After this draft 2013...all the picks would have been history...we would have RG3 from here on in with all our draft picks. We might have dipped a little more into FA to make up for the lack of Picks?
The offer from us was good enough to get RG3...3 First round picks. Trent/Weeden/Mingo.
If Weeden of course turns out to be a Franchise Pick possibly it would have been better to not make the trade.
It still bums me out that Fisher (I officially hate him the most as HC filling the void after Billick got fired.) leaked out our offer - NO DOUBT in my mind. I don't believe in coincidences as the ONE TIME offer in an auction had Shanahan (a friend of Fisher) just one up us barely as we had the better first round pick which would have taken a 2nd/3rd round pick to move up to from the Redskins pick. Also with 2012 being a very strong draft the #22 had a much greater value than 2013 First rounder.
But fact of the matter we would not have weakened much...RBs are not hard to get. Mingo would be nice but not worth an RG3. So we would have used FA money n got Dummerville n Kruger.
Schwartz, Gordon here...along with the rest of the picks.
The only unfortunate part probably would be that RG3 might have saved Shurmur and staff's jobs. Although I got a feeling that writing was on the wall n the change still would have been made.
JMHO now I got that nauseous feeling 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I don't think that RG3 is going to be a huge injury risk going forward.
Like most young QBs, he is going to learn when to run, when to stay put, and when to dump the ball and get out of danger.
I don't see his legs as a negative, as long as he retains flexibility. I have aways felt that flexibility is more important for a QB, as long as his legs are strong enough to drive the ball with. When you have guys grabbing at you in a pile around your feet, being flexible is vitally important for avoiding injury. (IMHO anyway) In many ways it is more important than pure strength.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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RG3 is almost the perfect QB. He is a strong accurate passer, tremendous balance and footwork, Olympic level speed, and one of if not the most fearless passer I have ever seen. He also has a thin frame and took more hits in college than some NFL QBs take in their entire career.
I would not have drafted him. It is that simple. I would buy a ticket to watch him play and i make a point to watch the skins games just to see what will RG3 do next but he can not take the physical pounding of the NFL.
It was scary when you watch Baylor versus north east texas state community college and he is getting beat up, and no that was not a real school but I couldnt remember the small school that was knocking the crap out of him. Its one thing to take those hits form 210 lb linebackers but its another to take those hits from 260 lb linebackers that run just as fast as those 210 lb guys.
I had Tannehill as my #2 QB behind luck for that very reason. I loved his upside and although I loved just about everything about RG3, I just could not envision a single season where the kid would finish standing.
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Not a bad post, but two things: Quote:
Thin legs on a QB doesn't really have any relevance DE yes.
Are you REALLY talking to me, or trying to convince others, as you often do? Thin legs have no relevance? LMAO. You obviously never have been tackled by real football players.
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It still bums me out that Fisher (I officially hate him the most as HC filling the void after Billick got fired.) leaked out our offer - NO DOUBT in my mind. I don't believe in coincidences as the ONE TIME offer in an auction had Shanahan (a friend of Fisher) just one up us barely as we had the better first round pick which would have taken a 2nd/3rd round pick to move up to from the Redskins pick. Also with 2012 being a very strong draft the #22 had a much greater value than 2013 First rounder.
Man, you are gullible. The Big Show spews garbage out of his pig face and you believe it? Why would Fisher do that? Seriously. The Skins are in the same conference as the Rams. The Browns are not. So, you want us to believe that Fisher would rather screw the Browns than hurt a team in his own conference????? Get outta here. Sheesh........the crap you guys believe and spew 
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I don't think that RG3 is going to be a huge injury risk going forward.
Will you man up if I am right? Or, will you do what you did when Timid flopped?
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(Though most people said I was nuts for wanting to trade for him even at the high price)
Does it help any if I still say that you are/were nuts for that?
Remember how many folks were livid that we didn't make the RG3 deal?
I can't say that the FO made the right move - after all, they tried and failed to make the deal happen - but at this point it looks like we dodged a bullet.
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I don't think that RG3 is going to be a huge injury risk going forward.
Will you man up if I am right? Or, will you do what you did when Timid flopped?
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, and have done so whenever I have taken a strong stance and been wrong.
Funny how those who take the other side from me often (like Frye, Quinn, and McCoy) don't.
Couch wasn't a perfect QB by any stretch, and he was irreparably injured at the end. He also didn't develop many of the important skills that an NFL QB needs to have. He was also stuck with a lousy supporting (used figuratively at best) cast. So what does that have to do with today?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Camp. One week away.
Can't wait!!! Light it up, Weeden!
Here is my view on Weeden:
He was a terrible pick for the team last year. He was not at all what we should have looked for in a QB based on the type of offense we ran. Luck, RG3, or Wilson would have been ideal (esp RG3 or Wilson) IMO Weeden was water and our team was oil. We picked the one guy out of the top 6 QB's that we had no business picking. (Actually, we had no shot at Luck) so 1/5. This is also why we had to install a new offense.
Weeden has a lot of flaws and he was a very old rookie however...
Hopefully- the offense we install this year is build around Weeden's strengths. If, we do that he could end up being a really good system QB. I don't expect him to ever be a pro bowl type QB on his own merits but I could be wrong.
It's kind of ironic because not only did last year's staff pick the worst available QB for their system, but they picked almost the near prototypical QB for this year's staff & system. Your Welcome 
BTW, it's been a while since I've chatted with all of you - especially the guys that came over from the old message board on the Browns Official Website! Hope all is well with all of you! 
JMHO
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Not a bad post, but two things:
Quote:
Thin legs on a QB doesn't really have any relevance DE yes.
Are you REALLY talking to me, or trying to convince others, as you often do? Thin legs have no relevance? LMAO. You obviously never have been tackled by real football players.
Quote:
It still bums me out that Fisher (I officially hate him the most as HC filling the void after Billick got fired.) leaked out our offer - NO DOUBT in my mind. I don't believe in coincidences as the ONE TIME offer in an auction had Shanahan (a friend of Fisher) just one up us barely as we had the better first round pick which would have taken a 2nd/3rd round pick to move up to from the Redskins pick. Also with 2012 being a very strong draft the #22 had a much greater value than 2013 First rounder.
Man, you are gullible. The Big Show spews garbage out of his pig face and you believe it? Why would Fisher do that? Seriously. The Skins are in the same conference as the Rams. The Browns are not. So, you want us to believe that Fisher would rather screw the Browns than hurt a team in his own conference????? Get outta here. Sheesh........the crap you guys believe and spew
Believing what the man says doesn't make EO gullible. You can only take him, or any man, at their word; and Holmgren doesn't have the reputation of being a compulsive liar - it's just your O-pinion . Constantly coming up w/ conspiracy theories, however, makes people look worse than gullible...you know, kind of like being on the far fringe of society. 
JMHO
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Not a bad post
Wow a rare compliment...of course that would imply all my other posts are bad 
Man if I ever said that to you -
But now I see why frail compliment was given.
to give you wiggle room to insult me: unbelievable
LMAO. You obviously never have been tackled by real football players.
And you have
Get outta here. Sheesh........the crap you guys believe and spew
Said the biggest agenda poster on this Board.
Now lets watch how you react...I'm sure it will be nothing but class...lol
But let me guess...Its my fault
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I didn't like it when Weeden started game 1 last year, because I didn't think he was ready yet. But I can't wait to see him game 1 this year; he's ready as he'll ever be.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I didn't like it when Weeden started game 1 last year, because I didn't think he was ready yet. But I can't wait to see him game 1 this year; he's ready as he'll ever be.
So you believe with the O learning an entire new scheme yet again this season, he'll be as ready as he's going to be in week 1?
You don't feel it may take a little time for the O to gel at real time game speed?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I didn't like it when Weeden started game 1 last year, because I didn't think he was ready yet. But I can't wait to see him game 1 this year; he's ready as he'll ever be.
So you believe with the O learning an entire new scheme yet again this season, he'll be as ready as he's going to be in week 1?
You don't feel it may take a little time for the O to gel at real time game speed?
In a word, No.
The D changes are far more significant. Say you run 1/3 of the time, what is the big difference other than maybe sending someone in motion. Pass plays are just some new routes and progressions.
It's not as if you are strapping skates on their feet and asking them to play hockey.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I didn't like it when Weeden started game 1 last year, because I didn't think he was ready yet. But I can't wait to see him game 1 this year; he's ready as he'll ever be.
So you believe with the O learning an entire new scheme yet again this season, he'll be as ready as he's going to be in week 1?
You don't feel it may take a little time for the O to gel at real time game speed?
In a word, No.
The D changes are far more significant. Say you run 1/3 of the time, what is the big difference other than maybe sending someone in motion. Pass plays are just some new routes and progressions.
It's not as if you are strapping skates on their feet and asking them to play hockey.
Haha. Nice analogy Divot.
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While your analogy sounds cute, all you really need to do is look at our O last year and hope they are not just strapping skates on for the first time, but that their skating abilities have grown by leaps and bounds since last year. See, people keep insisting that the "system" will make all of the difference in the world. Yet you seem to think it's not all that signifigant. Any time you learn a brand new playbook there are usually some growing pains. They need to transition from skating, to speed skating if we wish to put up a lot more points.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Remember your advice to me in a pm? Don't take things so personally. Remember? LOL Quote:
Said the biggest agenda poster on this Board.
Tell me, tab---what is my agenda? I think a lot of you guys use that word because I don't agree w/you. Everyone has an agenda of some sort. That's not a negative, it's reality. But most of you use it as a bad word.
Look, I am going to stick to my two main points:
1. I do think that RGIII's unbelievably skinny legs are going to be a factor. I said that BEFORE the draft. And he already has had one knee injury in one year.
2. No way do I believe that Fisher would not trade us the rights to RGIII just because he doesn't like the Cleveland Browns. We aren't even in the same conference. If anything, he would have traded those rights to us rather than Washington.
If those two points are confirmation of me being the biggest agenda poster on the board in your eyes----so be it.
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2. No way do I believe that Fisher would not trade us the rights to RGIII just because he doesn't like the Cleveland Browns. We aren't even in the same conference. If anything, he would have traded those rights to us rather than Washington.
Just clicking ...
I have read this opinion many times since that trade (Washington got a break/discount/inside info because of friendship), and other views on the "brother discount" between the Harbaughs ... and I find it hard to swallow. Just my opinion.
Any coach/GM/front office employee/whatever who did not get the best value for his team on a deal because he was doing a friend/relative a favor should no longer be making any decisions for his team.
Again, just my opinion.
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I have a question for you Vers ...... and this is a serious "I don't know" question.
You brought up RG3's "unbelievably skinny legs" and the injury he suffered to his knee.
How much of a part does muscle play in protecting a knee from injury? Does muscle protect the knee against impact from the side, or another angle that bends the knee in an unnatural position and causes damage to the ligaments?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
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I am not an expert, YTown. There are guys like Predator who know way more about that stuff than I do.
I do know that I had a bad knee when I was a RB in high school. Had to have it drained a lot. I also know a couple of things about knees from my coaching days. You strengthen the muscles around the knee to give it more support. I know you certainly want to strengthen your quads and hamstrings. Calf training is good, too.
You want to do things like straight leg raises, inner thigh leg lifts, stair climbing [forget the technical name,] short arc knee extensions, calf rises, etc. You can do partial squats, but you can't let your knees get out beyond your toes.
Deep lunges and full squats are things to avoid.
In my particular instance, and this was a long time ago, they had me work really hard w/strengthening that big muscle that is just above and to the inside of your knee. Supposedly, it helps stablelizes the knee.
Again, there are guys who can answer your question better than me. And I'm sure there are different thoughts on how to do things now. All I know is that there are exercises to help prevent knee injuries and others that help aide your injured knee.
Hopefully, no one thinks I am insinuating that any of these are fool proof. They are not. I know you know that YTown, but someone will try and twist my words and we'll get away from the point.
One more thing about RGIII. Most of us saw the playoff game against the Seahawks. Did you notice his leg flapping around during that game? Man, it looked so skinny. So vulnerable. I have to believe others noticed it?????
I obviously do not have any proof that he will face leg injuries throughout his career, but it's always been a concern of mine, ever since I started watching him in college. We'll see.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
I have read this opinion many times since that trade (Washington got a break/discount/inside info because of friendship), and other views on the "brother discount" between the Harbaughs ... and I find it hard to swallow. Just my opinion.
Any coach/GM/front office employee/whatever who did not get the best value for his team on a deal because he was doing a friend/relative a favor should no longer be making any decisions for his team.
Yep.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
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While your analogy sounds cute, all you really need to do is look at our O last year and hope they are not just strapping skates on for the first time, but that their skating abilities have grown by leaps and bounds since last year.
See, people keep insisting that the "system" will make all of the difference in the world. Yet you seem to think it's not all that signifigant. Any time you learn a brand new playbook there are usually some growing pains.
They need to transition from skating, to speed skating if we wish to put up a lot more points.
The longer a group of players is together - particularly QB and WR/TE - the less of a big deal it is to change systems.
Routes are routes, and QB/WR timing won't change... they get to know each other. When they hit that stage, it's really just concepts, terminology, and playbooks that have to be learned.
We, however, aren't quite at that level. Everyone isn't completely new to everyone, which is huge, but most of these cats aren't "old hat", either. There will definitely be some growing pains, but it shouldn't be anything that some time and effort can't fix.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Posts: 50,506
Legend
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Legend
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I just don't know that a "skinny" leg would be particularly more at risk than a more muscular leg as far as ligament injuries, or even broken bones go. Ligaments seem to do best when made most resilient through a series of stretching exercises. Bones need calcium to be strong, but I don't know that adding muscle necessarily increases their resistance to injury and fracture/breaks.I would guess that muscle would make a guy more resistant to wearing down from hits during the game, but really not all that much more resistant to major damage injuries like to bones, ligaments, and tendons. Flexibility exercises would seem to me to be the best bet to help prevent some ligament and tendon damage, instead of bulking up with muscle.
I suppose that I could be wrong but I think that is the way it works .. at least for those type of knee injuries, etc.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313 |
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In my particular instance, and this was a long time ago, .
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Ver's you know I really wanted you back here, but you made me laugh...my knee was also drained through my soph and jr yrs..WR and Outside LB here...finally in 05 I had to have my knee replaced...and by the way i'm no spring chicken I played 66-68...
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Muscle will give additional resistance in some situations. Will it matter with a full body-weight side impact on a knee? Not a bit. Nothing will help in that sort of situation, but muscle strength and flexibility are the only two things you naturally/inherently have in your favor, and muscle strength is the only one you have any control over... and it WILL help to a degree, depending upon the nature of the incident. Muscle won't do a damned thing for preventing a broken bone (although, I suppose you could make an argument for soft tissue absorbing impact forces that would otherwise go right to the bone, but that would be very narrow scenario, in my opinion.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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