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Report: Browns could carry two kickers Posted by Curtis Crabtree on July 3, 2013, 11:52 PM EDT For the first time since the Browns returned to Cleveland as an expansion franchise in 1999 the team will be looking for a new place kicker. The candidates include former Houston Texans kicker Shayne Graham and free agent pickup Brandon Bogotay to replace the departed Phil Dawson, who signed with the San Francisco 49ers in March. However, according to Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com, the Browns may elect to keep both Graham and Bogotay to fulfill the team’s kicking duties this fall. The two kickers have decidedly different skill-sets. As Hensley notes, Graham has converted 93.4-percent of his attempts from inside 40 yards in his career but has struggled from long-range. Last year with Houston Graham converted just 11 of 18 chances from beyond 40 yards. Bogotay has the much stronger leg of the pair though he is inexperienced in-game situations as a field goal kicker. He attempted just three field goals during his college career at Georgia while stuck behind Minnesota Vikings kicker Blair Walsh on the depth chart. Instead, Bogotay handled kickoff duties at Georgia before being signed by the Browns this offseason. Graham converted just 28 kickoffs for touchbacks last season in Houston, which ranked 22nd in the league. The Browns could keep Graham for short field goals while Bogotay could be called upon to handle kickoffs and long distance attempts Head coach Rob Chudzinski said it’s still too early to declare a leader in the battle for the job. “It’s been close. It’s been back and forth,” Chudzinski said. “Obviously, you get into the preseason and those games and that will be a very important part of the process of the evaluation. But it’s ongoing all the way through.” It’s a rarity in the league now to carry two kickers now that kickoffs take place from the 35-yard line instead of the 30-yard line. Doing so also comes at the expense of another player at another position on the roster. Bogotay will have to prove that his inexperience isn’t a liability either as he hopes to earn one of the Browns’ 53 roster spots come the end of training camp. web page
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However, according to Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com, the Browns may elect to keep both Graham and Bogotay to fulfill the team’s kicking duties this fall.
I didn't see any quotes from Chud--or anyone from the Browns--that supports that statement.
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I find this very hard to believe. But I guess this is why the writer uses "could".
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Roster spots are way too valuable to carry an extra kicker.
Besides,2013 will be an evaluation year,just sign the young guy and let Graham walk.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Roster spots are way too valuable to carry an extra kicker.
Besides,2013 will be an evaluation year,just sign the young guy and let Graham walk.
I did think the Graham signing made sense....particularly after such a polarizing Browns' favorite left. It's good to have a experienced vet who may be able to handle the missing fan favorite rather than a young talent. If a short FG is missed early in the year, psychologically, I think someone like Graham could handle the boos and the "Dawson would've made that" vibes. I think the other guy is here to make Graham work harder.
Personally, I think we identify our young kicker next year. JMO.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those are very valid points.
But,Graham stunk in Houston,and kicking in Cleveland certainly will be much more difficult.If the young guy can't handle the mental aspect,he wouldn't be the guy you'd want if this team ever got good.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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It must be noted, Phil Dawson was not even offered a contract by the great bean counter, Banner.
Banner allowed Dawson to walk after Dawson turned in one of his best performances as a pro, making the Pro Bowl in 2012.
The 38 yr old Dawson with 14 yrs of NFL experience turned in his best performance as a pro in 2012...hitting on 29 of 31 FG attempts and 29 of 29 PATs.
Banner picked the 35 yr old Shayne Graham to replace Dawson...Graham's FG Pct was 81.6 ranking him 23rd in the NFL in 20121...Dawson ranked #2 in the NFL in FG Pct with a 93.5. Both kickers hit 100% of their PATs in 2012.
In the category of kickoff touchbacks, Dawson and the Browns ranked 19th in the NFL compared to Graham, who kicked for the Texans in 2012 ranking "29th" in the NFL in kickoff touchbacks.
...and Banner and company kicked Phil Dawson to the curb without even offering him a contract...unreal.
Now that horrible management decision by Joe B might be compounded by the scenario where the Browns are forced to carry two kickers to equal the performance Dawson turned in as the Browns kicker.
How many wins will this management decision cost the team in 2013?
Bean counters should not be involved in roster moves but keeping Banner where he belongs can only be done by Jimmy Haslam...and football
is probably the last thing on Haslam's mind these days.
There is no way to put a smiley face on the way the Browns front office handled the kicking duties for the 2013 season. It might have made more sense if the Browns had drafted a kicker but they didn't do that either....and now they are talking about carrying two kickers.
Haslam and his front office boys look like idiots for the way they handled the kickoff duties.
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 I wish I knew how to install the "beating a dead horse" thingy on here..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I didn't see any quotes from Chud--or anyone from the Browns--that supports that statement.
I would feel a helluva lot better if Chud was in charge of the roster and not the two boys handling those duties now.
Banner made a major blunder when he treated Dawson like crap, just because he could.
Now the team will pay for Banner's blunder the entire year.
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I don't even know why I'm bothering...
How exactly did Banner treat Phil like crap?
I'd say the previous regime, the guys that just kept Franchise Tagging him and not working on a longer deal, did a much greater disservice...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Real interesting post, Mac. I just don't see us doing two kickers after training camp. We certainly have greater needs in other spots.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
How exactly did Banner treat Phil like crap?
Mac has been beating this illogical drum for awhile.
To recap-
He thinks that Banner should have offered (and Dawson should have accepted) something that has never been done in the history of sports.
A press conference in which a player who has signed with another team sits in front of his previous team's logo and holds a farewell press conference.
At first he found it completely classless that the team didn't release a statement thanking Dawson for his time in Cleveland. When it was brought to his attention that they did, suddenly that wasn't good enough - anything but this odd press conference idea became a jerk move.
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Quote:
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However, according to Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com, the Browns may elect to keep both Graham and Bogotay to fulfill the team’s kicking duties this fall.
I didn't see any quotes from Chud--or anyone from the Browns--that supports that statement.
I hope not. Two kickers going into regular season would be silly IMO. Not unless one of them can play linebacker or WR lol... 
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This is Jamison Hensley at his best. The Ravens beat reporter trying to make anything Browns come off as idiotic. Every team in the league has a couple kickers going into camp, yet the Browns may keep 2 because one sucks and the other is unproven. I dont know how they handle those situations in Baltimore but there is this novel concept called camp competition where one player competes against another.
How he landed a job with ESPN geez. O wait they needed someone to replace Theisman's keen observations lol.
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Roster spots are way too valuable to carry an extra kicker.
Besides,2013 will be an evaluation year,just sign the young guy and let Graham walk.
I think that is coach talk, but don't believe a team couldn't do this.....I suggested some time back we might do this.
It makes some sense for this season. We just ended the Phil Dawson era. Many fans weren't happy about it. It also looks like we like Bogatay. Can you imagine how the kid could be ruined before he even gets started by missing a few kicks?? The boo birds will be in full force. Graham is the bridge. He is a vet better able to shake off a missed kick and block out the fan uproar.
I think it would be a good idea to insulate the young guy for a season. Something tells me we won't miss the roater spot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I was thinking back to when teams had a 40 man roster for 2 less games. Back then, when God was a sophomore, you didn't have specialists; Lou Groza was an exception in his later years. Most teams didn't have a guy who only played PK, P, or LS. The Browns, for instance, had a big advantage over other teams by having a really good WR who was also a great Punter - Gary Collins. It was also kind of a hoot to see George Blanda or Lou Michaels kick EP's and FG's. Extra points weren't even automatic back then. Teams didn't play for FG's, they played for touchdowns.
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To comment on the article. Way too much will be made of this.
Let them keep THREE kickers if they want. ( Sound outrageous?) This team kept a bleepin longsnapper Pontbriand for 9+ years or so and I don't remember any posts on here about the wasted roster spot.
And if the Browns brass wants to waste FIVE roster spots on longsnappers, Kickers, and kick coverage specialists, ( Any outrage on this board that Ray Ventrone had a spot for the last 4+ years?), then that's a decision the Browns brass will have to live with and answer for.
See, I already made way too much of it. It's a non story.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Long Snapping is completely different than even a shotgun snap.
It's a great position, one that goes completely unnoticed until something bad happens, ask Trey Junkin.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Obviously they are hoping for Bogotay. Graham is just an insurance policy in case Bogotay stinks.
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Quote:
Quote:
How exactly did Banner treat Phil like crap?
Mac has been beating this illogical drum for awhile.
To recap-
He thinks that Banner should have offered (and Dawson should have accepted) something that has never been done in the history of sports.
Offering your Pro Bowl kicker a contract has never been done????...
Banner just wanted to make an example of Dawson...to show everyone in Cleveland "who is in charger"
On the very day Dawson was saying good bye to the fans, Banner brought in his YouTube kicker for a tryout...kind of rubbing salt in the wound, IMO.
If the Browns had drafted a kicker, the move by Banner not signing Dawson would make sense....but Banner did not draft a kicker...
Instead Banner signs the well traveled, 35 year old Shayne Graham...who ranked 23rd in accuracy in 2012...WHILE THE BROWNS DAWSON RANKED 2ND IN THE NFL IN FG ACCURACY LAST SEASON.
Also, Dawson was closing in on Lou Groza's scoring record, which happen to be one of his goals when he first signed with the Browns in 1999.
I believe Banner enjoys hurting people by taking opportunities such as the Dawson situation....screwing Dawson over in an attempt to remind everyone who holds the power. Banner didn't even offer Dawson a contract and neither Banner nor Haslam could explain why the team refused to offer Dawson a contract. I find that fact a bit sick on Banner and Haslam's part.
Now we hear that the Browns might have to sign TWO KICKERS to produce the performance Dawson had in 2012,.
You can only laugh at this front office, screwing up the one aspect of the offense that wasn't even broke.
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Field Goals are a part of Special Teams play.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c but did Dawson even WANT a long term deal in Cleveland. A professional through and through but being in Illinois don't know if he ever came out in his last few years stating that he wanted a Long Term Deal.
Could it have been that one was not there to reach with H & H so they just tagged him? If he wanted to go to a contender, I do not blame Banner for not tagging him again that would have resulted in some crazy money for a kicker.
As I said Dawson was a true professional but do we really know he wanted to stay?
Back to the question of 2 kickers we could also go back to the day of looking for a punter to kick off and long FG like Steve Cox in the 80s
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Oh there were reports that he wanted the long term deal, then he sold his home in the area, then it was reported that he wanted to play for a winner etc etc..
Just a ton of reports. I can't remember him saying anything.. So I'm not sure where this stuff comes from..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
This is Jamison Hensley at his best. The Ravens beat reporter trying to make anything Browns come off as idiotic.
QFT.
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Offering your Pro Bowl kicker a contract has never been done????...
I was referring to your crazy idea that the new front office was classless not to have a farewell press conference with Dawson after he signed in San Fransisco.
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Would have been a class move by the Browns to have Dawson and someone from Browns, together in the media room reading the statement quoted, thanking Dawson for his years with the team...allowing Phil to use the event to say his thanks to the fans, the team and his teammates.
But no one with the Browns cared enough about this player to even think of having such an event. Instead, Phil Dawson had to say his goodbyes via twitter.
Sure would have been a great opportunity for Banner to show some class and to show everyone that he truly is working to change his ways. But for some reason, Banner could not bring himself to do it.
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Banner just wanted to make an example of Dawson...to show everyone in Cleveland "who is in charger"
I'm sure that's exactly what guided his decision.
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On the very day Dawson was saying good bye to the fans, Banner brought in his YouTube kicker for a tryout...kind of rubbing salt in the wound, IMO.
I bet Phil had to fight back tears while he was apartment hunting.
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I believe Banner enjoys hurting people by taking opportunities such as the Dawson situation....screwing Dawson over in an attempt to remind everyone who holds the power.
Banner enjoys hurting people?
I actually laughed out loud.
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I find that fact a bit sick on Banner and Haslam's part.
Outright sociopaths if you ask me. 
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Oh there were reports that he wanted the long term deal, then he sold his home in the area, then it was reported that he wanted to play for a winner etc etc..
Just a ton of reports. I can't remember him saying anything.. So I'm not sure where this stuff comes from..
I read that it was mutual. I think the Browns were ready to move on, and Phil was too, because they had gone years without giving him that one big kicker-type long term deal. I mean yeah it's not like he's gonna starve, but when you think about your value, and that the Browns franchised him all those years, I think the ties were probably severed.
I mean whatever. I hope he does well in SF, I have no hard feelings, and to be honest I don't blame him for maybe giving us the cold shoulder a bit.
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did Dawson even WANT a long term deal in Cleveland. A professional through and through but being in Illinois don't know if he ever came out in his last few years stating that he wanted a Long Term Deal.
Yes and he had wanted one when the browns franchised him the first year and the second year. Phil wanted to finish out his career with the Browns. Sadly he was never given the chance 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Report: Browns could carry two kickers
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on July 3, 2013, 11:52 PM EDT
For the first time since the Browns returned to Cleveland as an expansion franchise in 1999 the team will be looking for a new place kicker.
The candidates include former Houston Texans kicker Shayne Graham and free agent pickup Brandon Bogotay to replace the departed Phil Dawson, who signed with the San Francisco 49ers in March.
However, according to Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com, the Browns may elect to keep both Graham and Bogotay to fulfill the team’s kicking duties this fall.
The two kickers have decidedly different skill-sets. As Hensley notes, Graham has converted 93.4-percent of his attempts from inside 40 yards in his career but has struggled from long-range. Last year with Houston Graham converted just 11 of 18 chances from beyond 40 yards.
Bogotay has the much stronger leg of the pair though he is inexperienced in-game situations as a field goal kicker. He attempted just three field goals during his college career at Georgia while stuck behind Minnesota Vikings kicker Blair Walsh on the depth chart. Instead, Bogotay handled kickoff duties at Georgia before being signed by the Browns this offseason.
Graham converted just 28 kickoffs for touchbacks last season in Houston, which ranked 22nd in the league. The Browns could keep Graham for short field goals while Bogotay could be called upon to handle kickoffs and long distance attempts
Head coach Rob Chudzinski said it’s still too early to declare a leader in the battle for the job.
“It’s been close. It’s been back and forth,” Chudzinski said. “Obviously, you get into the preseason and those games and that will be a very important part of the process of the evaluation. But it’s ongoing all the way through.”
It’s a rarity in the league now to carry two kickers now that kickoffs take place from the 35-yard line instead of the 30-yard line. Doing so also comes at the expense of another player at another position on the roster. Bogotay will have to prove that his inexperience isn’t a liability either as he hopes to earn one of the Browns’ 53 roster spots come the end of training camp.
web page
Imo, in years prior (1999 to 2011/2012) imo there was plenty of space to carry an "extra ANY position".
But since the consensus seems to be that we are finally developing/acquiring some much needed "DEPTH" on this team, the final 53 is being squeezed like we haven't seen in a long time.
Imo we'll keep 1 and the other 1 is just training camp fodder, maximizing the odds that "the 1 keeper's" leg doesn't fall off during TC.
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Quote:
Roster spots are way too valuable to carry an extra kicker.
Besides,2013 will be an evaluation year,just sign the young guy and let Graham walk.
I see us keeping just Graham... as you said a roster spot is way too valuable for two kickes and I'd personally rather have a veteran kicker
<><
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I think Bogotay was brought in to be the camp kicker with Graham being Phil's replacement but from all reports Boogie has dominated in all areas.
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Quote:
Quote:
did Dawson even WANT a long term deal in Cleveland. A professional through and through but being in Illinois don't know if he ever came out in his last few years stating that he wanted a Long Term Deal.
Yes and he had wanted one when the browns franchised him the first year and the second year. Phil wanted to finish out his career with the Browns. Sadly he was never given the chance
GM, your not the only person to say this, but I've yet to read a report where he's quoted. I believe you have sources and I trust you so if you say so, then I'm good with that.
So for the sake of this discussion let's say he wanted a long term deal, that's two different regimes that didn't get it done. NOT just this one as Mac contends.
And I think I understand the current regime not wanting to do it. He's up there in years, very effective today but for how much longer. I don't think we're close to contending just yet so it could be that the thought was, we may not be for a little while.
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Cleveland Browns franchise kicker Phil Dawson for more than $3 million in 2011 By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer on February 22, 2011 at 5:23 PM, updated February 22, 2011 at 10:12 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Phil Dawson said goodbye to teammates and friends after the Browns 2010 finale, sold his house in Westlake and headed back home to Texas with his wife and kids. But the veteran kicker's 12-year career with the Browns may not be over, as he thought walking out of Cleveland Browns Stadium on Jan. 2. The Browns on Tuesday designated Dawson as their franchise player for the 2011 season, meaning his offer will be about $3.25 million -- the average of last season's top five salaries at his position. If the same rules apply under the next collective bargaining agreement, another team can sign Dawson, but would have to surrender two first-round picks to the Browns. The Browns can also match any offer. The $3.25 million would more than triple Dawson's previous salary of $1 million a year. The Browns' only full-time kicker in the new era, Dawson has been seeking a new deal the past several seasons, but the team hasn't budged. Dawson, who couldn't be reached for comment, has made an apparent statement about his contract each of the past two years by skipping some of the voluntary organized team activities. He's never gone public about being underpaid, but it's been clear he hasn't been happy. After the 41-9 loss to Pittsburgh in the season finale, Dawson sounded resigned to being gone, but admitted that he wouldn't rule anything out, "even returning to the Browns." He added, "For me, it's really going to be what's best for my family. I've earned the right to have that choice [of where to play] and I'm going to take advantage of it. I'll seek my wife's input. We'll get together, my boys are even getting old enough I'll see what they have to say about it. Whenever that time comes, we'll make the best decision for us." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_franchise_kic.htmlCleveland Browns kicker Phil Dawson accepts franchise tag, source said Browns General Manager Tom Heckert said last week that Dawson may have been unhappy about being tagged for the second straight year. His "ultimate goal'' was to sign Dawson to a multi-year deal. Dawson has declined to comment. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_browns_kicker_phil_d_3.html
Last edited by pblack18707; 07/05/13 02:14 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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so basically, that article is saying, he demand anything, didn't ask for anything and didn't say what he wanted outside of saying he's earned the right to do the best thing for him.
Do I have the right?
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I just really think he had enough of Cleveland and wanted to play for a winner.
just my opinion of course.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
I didn't see any quotes from Chud--or anyone from the Browns--that supports that statement.
Hence the term Bozo lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Do you think the reason we did not offer a long term contract was because he did not want one? It's not just Banner here. H & H had their chance to extend him too. I don't think money had a thing to do with it. He Did Not Want To Be Here. Pretty Clear.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658 |
It makes no sense to carry two kickers. Keep one, and if there's trouble during the season you go to the grocery store and resign the guy you cut.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Anyone wanna wager on whether or not mac will bad-mouth Heckert like he has "the bean counter?"
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
not me. lol. cant believe the hate he has and not one game played.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns could carry two
kickers
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