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Others see Pro Bowl potential in Browns' Taylor By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff writer Posted Jul 04, 2013 @ 04:28 PM BEREA — Phil Taylor beats around the bush the way any NFL player has to when asked if he can be a Pro Bowler. “First of all,” Taylor tells us in a one-on-one, “it’s a team. I’m going to do what I’ve got to do for the team, first. “After that, if I make it to the Pro Bowl, I make it to the Pro Bowl. That is a goal. I do want to go to the Pro Bowl. But it’s about the team first. And we want to win games.” Ahtyba Rubin plows right through to the point. Taylor is Pro Bowl material, easily. Wouldn’t it be nice for the Browns if it happened? When was the last time any of their defensive draft picks became not just an admirable pro, like Rubin, but a star? Eric Turner, maybe, from the 1991 draft? Michael Dean Perry from 1988? Chip Banks from 1982? It is not a long list. Rubin says he will never match Taylor’s talent. Taylor demurs: “I learn from Rube. I don’t think I can ever match his motor. He has the type of motor only a few guys have.” The motors are idling as the Browns await the start of training camp. Joe Cullen, the new D-line coach, got everybody pretty revved up in spring practice. “He tells you what you need to hear,” Taylor says of Cullen. “He doesn’t stop yelling. He doesn’t really talk. He yells. “But it’s cool. He reminds me of my college coach. So it’s cool.” You should hear that college coach, Chris Achuff, going on about Taylor. “Big men as athletic as Phil just don’t come around very often,” Achuff says by phone from Baylor University. “Phil was about 6-3, 340 when he finished here, and he ran like a cat.” He was built like a refrigerator when he arrived at Baylor after transferring from Penn State. “When we got him, he said he weighed 380 pounds,” Achuff says, “but I’ll put money on it having been closer to four bills. “The strength staff did a great job getting him to where he could actually be functional in practice. “As a junior, he learned to fight through some things. As a senior, he just played so well. One year we played him at a three technique, then he played nose tackle ... we let him rip and run.” Taylor is expected to mostly man the nose tackle job in the Browns’ 3-4. Taylor hopes for a breakthrough year after he lost the first eight games of 2012 to a pectoral tear. “Even though he missed games last year, he learned,” Achuff said. “The biggest thing as a rookie, he told me, was that he had only two moves, and everyone could sit on those. “He expanded last year. He learned how to bait people. “Now what I think you’ll see is a very large, very athletic, very violent man. Watch his club. When he hits you with that club, you know it. “Phil, in my opinion, has a big upside.” Taylor spent the previous two years in coordinator Dick Jauron’s 4-3. He is adjusting to new coordinator Ray Horton’s three-man base front. “It’s not too much different,” he said. “It’s playing my game, being disruptive in the backfield, and getting to the quarterback. “The 3-4? I can still line up anywhere. I’ll have the same opportunity to get sacks as I did the last two years.” At the ripe old age of 25, Taylor wants to become a team leader. “Me and Rube? We’re the bellcows, man,” he said. “We’ve got to set the tempo. Just like on offense, Joe Thomas and Alex Mack are the two bellcows. “We’ve got to set the tone. It starts up front. Without having a line, you can’t do anything.” Taylor sounds like a hungry man who is sick of losing. In his last year at Baylor, the team went 7-6, but a 55-28 loss to Brandon Weeden’s Oklahoma State team triggered a four-game losing streak to end the year. The Browns went 4-12 with him starting all 16 games as a rookie. They were 5-11 last year, but it is worth noting that Taylor didn’t play until Game 9, coming off the bench. In his next seven games, all starts, they went 3-4. “We’re going to be good,” Taylor said. “It’s a big difference. I’ve got a feeling about it.” web page
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wow. I thought it was haden being out why we lost those games?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c
Like Phil said, it's a team...
We can't do without anybody.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
my two cents...
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Our front 7 is so set right now, with the exception of maybe one MLB. These guys should do big things.. Loving Rubin and Taylor's attitude. Just hoping our entire team can stay injury free.
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Quote:
Others see Pro Bowl potential in Browns' Taylor
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff writer
Posted Jul 04, 2013 @ 04:28 PM
BEREA —
Phil Taylor beats around the bush the way any NFL player has to when asked if he can be a Pro Bowler.
“First of all,” Taylor tells us in a one-on-one, “it’s a team. I’m going to do what I’ve got to do for the team, first.
“After that, if I make it to the Pro Bowl, I make it to the Pro Bowl. That is a goal. I do want to go to the Pro Bowl. But it’s about the team first. And we want to win games.”
Ahtyba Rubin plows right through to the point. Taylor is Pro Bowl material, easily.
Wouldn’t it be nice for the Browns if it happened? When was the last time any of their defensive draft picks became not just an admirable pro, like Rubin, but a star?
Eric Turner, maybe, from the 1991 draft? Michael Dean Perry from 1988? Chip Banks from 1982? It is not a long list.
Rubin says he will never match Taylor’s talent.
Taylor demurs: “I learn from Rube. I don’t think I can ever match his motor. He has the type of motor only a few guys have.”
The motors are idling as the Browns await the start of training camp. Joe Cullen, the new D-line coach, got everybody pretty revved up in spring practice.
“He tells you what you need to hear,” Taylor says of Cullen. “He doesn’t stop yelling. He doesn’t really talk. He yells.
“But it’s cool. He reminds me of my college coach. So it’s cool.”
You should hear that college coach, Chris Achuff, going on about Taylor.
“Big men as athletic as Phil just don’t come around very often,” Achuff says by phone from Baylor University. “Phil was about 6-3, 340 when he finished here, and he ran like a cat.”
He was built like a refrigerator when he arrived at Baylor after transferring from Penn State.
“When we got him, he said he weighed 380 pounds,” Achuff says, “but I’ll put money on it having been closer to four bills.
“The strength staff did a great job getting him to where he could actually be functional in practice.
“As a junior, he learned to fight through some things. As a senior, he just played so well. One year we played him at a three technique, then he played nose tackle ... we let him rip and run.”
Taylor is expected to mostly man the nose tackle job in the Browns’ 3-4. Taylor hopes for a breakthrough year after he lost the first eight games of 2012 to a pectoral tear.
“Even though he missed games last year, he learned,” Achuff said. “The biggest thing as a rookie, he told me, was that he had only two moves, and everyone could sit on those.
“He expanded last year. He learned how to bait people.
“Now what I think you’ll see is a very large, very athletic, very violent man. Watch his club. When he hits you with that club, you know it.
“Phil, in my opinion, has a big upside.”
Taylor spent the previous two years in coordinator Dick Jauron’s 4-3. He is adjusting to new coordinator Ray Horton’s three-man base front.
“It’s not too much different,” he said. “It’s playing my game, being disruptive in the backfield, and getting to the quarterback.
“The 3-4? I can still line up anywhere. I’ll have the same opportunity to get sacks as I did the last two years.”
At the ripe old age of 25, Taylor wants to become a team leader.
“Me and Rube? We’re the bellcows, man,” he said. “We’ve got to set the tempo. Just like on offense, Joe Thomas and Alex Mack are the two bellcows.
“We’ve got to set the tone. It starts up front. Without having a line, you can’t do anything.”
Taylor sounds like a hungry man who is sick of losing. In his last year at Baylor, the team went 7-6, but a 55-28 loss to Brandon Weeden’s Oklahoma State team triggered a four-game losing streak to end the year.
The Browns went 4-12 with him starting all 16 games as a rookie. They were 5-11 last year, but it is worth noting that Taylor didn’t play until Game 9, coming off the bench. In his next seven games, all starts, they went 3-4.
“We’re going to be good,” Taylor said. “It’s a big difference. I’ve got a feeling about it.”
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No doubt Big Phil is going to be a big part of the success and/or, ughh, the non-success of this D.
I realize that all positions are integral in the 3-4 but isn't the NT "absolutely critical" to the success in that they must be able to occupy both the C and one of the G's at the same time to allow one and/or both MLB's to flow freely to the ball carrier?
Not a super X's and O's guy here but it's what I've understood to be quite necessary.
Interested in reading the following "replies" on what an NT in a 3-4 D's duties are....in certain run plays, pass plays, etc.
One thing..........."No Argueing Allowed"!!! 
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I think Phil would have made a bigger splash hadn't he torn his pec and missed them games. When he came back, he was instantly noticeable. With how our line is stacked, these big guys should stay pretty fresh throughout the game, making it extremely difficult on opposing offenses.
Phil going to be a big key to that. He can move for his size and I'm glad he isn't pushing/attacking our offensive lines. I look for him to continue where he left off and him having a great season. I've seen this guy in person and in pads, he is a MONSTER. If he could fit under a bed, he'd be the nightmare of all kids and adults lol! All IMO.
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I'm also really hoping that they move him and Rubin around a bit (which, supposedly, is Horton's MO).
I think just planting PT at Nose and keeping him there will be a waste of his talent. Shifting all these guys around will give everyone a chance at getting to the QB. Scheme-wise, production-wise, and mentally (they all want the sacks), it would be a win-win.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Quote:
He was built like a refrigerator when he arrived at Baylor after transferring from Penn State.
Does anyone know why he left Penn State for Baylor?
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“When we got him, he said he weighed 380 pounds,” Achuff says, “but I’ll put money on it having been closer to four bills.
“The strength staff did a great job getting him to where he could actually be functional in practice.
“As a junior, he learned to fight through some things.
Fight through what things? Anyone know?
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A quick google search seemed to indicate he was involved in one or more off the field fights and was possibly running with a bad crowd.
Paterno made the call to boot him at a time when Penn State was coming under some scrutiny for players getting in trouble with the law which was around the same time Taylor got involved in one of those incidents.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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He has stayed clean for quite some time...I am not too worried about any Problem child.
He has a lot of talent...but soon we will get out of this New Orleans Sandwich stage.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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From what I recall, he was getting in fights. No drug stuff or any substance abuse.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Thanks. I hope he doesn't get into trouble here. He seems to like the night life a bit too much and some of his tweets concern me.
We seem to have our share of guys who might be character risks.
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I think the only character concern that we really have to worry about is Gordon.
All pro guys like the nightlife, the women, and everything else that comes with the money. As long as they aren't doing drugs, I think that's the best we can hope for. Thank goodness for players like Thomas and DQ though. Hopefully these guys are volunteering advice and being solicited for it as well.
I will say this though. These guys really seem to be a tight knit group, especially on the D side of the ball. I don't remember a team this tight knit in a long time. I think all of them were at Hadens recent wedding. Hopefully it translates to the field and these guys play hard for each other. I'm not really sure what kind of dude Haden actually is, but he has really embraced Cleveland and maybe that is rubbing off on the other guys too. A tight knit group that wants to play together and wants to play for Cleveland sounds good to me.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
I think the only character concern that we really have to worry about is Gordon.
If I had to list our players that were reasonable character concerns off the top of my head -
Josh Gordon
Armonty Bryant
Greg Little
Joe Haden
Jabaal Sheard
Desmond Bryant
Anyone is free to dispute that list or add more to it, but when five key guys are question marks, there should be reason for pause.
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All pro guys like the nightlife, the women, and everything else...
Some of us ( ) never have grown out of that....and we're not even pros.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
Jabaal Sheard?
He was suspended and arrested a little less than three years ago for throwing a guy through a window.
I'm all for second chances, and I'm not looking to judge ... but if I'm an employer, I consider that a character concern.
IMO, 5-10 years is when arrests or bad behavior becomes obsolete for me. It all depends on circumstances, but I find it odd that so many on here are willing to dismiss things that happened 2 or 3 years ago.
Maybe sometimes that means you look suspiciously at someone whose genuinely changed in the last year, but that's the cost of being an idiot.
I've said it a million times - if we win, it would take a lot for me to care about what these guys do on their own time.
Get high, get in fights, carry guns ... if we win and you're on the field contributing, I really don't care. I'm not looking to be my friend or date my daughter.
Just win.
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Quote:
Quote:
Jabaal Sheard?
I've said it a million times - if we win, it would take a lot for me to care about what these guys do on their own time.
Get high, get in fights, carry guns ... if we win and you're on the field contributing, I really don't care. I'm not looking to be my friend or date my daughter.
Just win.
I used to think this way, but personally I don't want a bunch of thugs playing in Cleveland. Win or not! I think the Pats have the just win attitude now and they looked past character concerns for a guy like Hernandez. I just think you can find talent and guys that can win for you without getting guys with bad character issues. Unfortunately, it's so much harder to find those guys than it used to be.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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Wow, I totally forgot about that (re: Sheard)!
The Patriots, apparently, took a calculated risk with Hernandez. Several teams passed on him because of "character concerns".
And to be clear, character concerns are things like, running with the wrong crowd, getting in fights, etc. Not recreating the body count from the Sopranos.
I don't hold the Hernandez thing against the Patriots at all. They were really supposed to know that Hernandez would lose it and start offing people all over the place? The majority of NFL players are on the aggressive side, or just a little off. Some are full blown loony-toons. I bet, if anyone had predict the chance that a player would become a homicidal maniac based off of a couple interview type situations, Hernandez wouldn't even crack the top 100.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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For me, the biggest problem is that you start to rely upon a guy who has had problems ...... then he gets suspended, like Gordon did ..... or, in a worst case scenario, winds up in prison awaiting trial for murder like Hernandez is.
Character does matter, because it's hard to count on a guy who is serving a suspension, or worse. The greatest player in the world does you no good if he's unable to play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Jabaal Sheard?
He was suspended and arrested a little less than three years ago for throwing a guy through a window.
I'm all for second chances, and I'm not looking to judge ... but if I'm an employer, I consider that a character concern.
IMO, 5-10 years is when arrests or bad behavior becomes obsolete for me. It all depends on circumstances, but I find it odd that so many on here are willing to dismiss things that happened 2 or 3 years ago.
Maybe sometimes that means you look suspiciously at someone whose genuinely changed in the last year, but that's the cost of being an idiot.
I've said it a million times - if we win, it would take a lot for me to care about what these guys do on their own time.
Get high, get in fights, carry guns ... if we win and you're on the field contributing, I really don't care. I'm not looking to be my friend or date my daughter.
Just win.
JMO
I'd be more worried about his transition to OLB than something he did three years ago.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I'd be more worried about his transition to OLB than something he did three years ago.
Not me. I think the guy has the body and temperament of an OLBer rather than a DE. However, poor character typically doesn't disappear. Some guys really do change their lives around, but most keep making the same mistakes over and over.
I think that one thing many people seem to forget is that people get away w/poor behavior all the time. They are NOT caught every single time they do something wrong. I've known guys who broke the law every day and never got caught. While the odds of getting caught might not be great, there are still odds of it happening. Living a good, clean life may not be as much fun, but it sure is less risky.
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There was another discussion on the offense where I argued the Browns improvements on offense haven't been as much as other teams.
The first 3 opponents, Miami, Baltimore, and Minnesota, will have better talent on offense.
If the Browns defensive line, or front 7, can take over a game, and dominate for 60 minutes, and if the Browns gains on offense can provide "reasonable improved production", then that can make up the difference and give the Browns an advantage to win any or all of their first 3 games.
It's a whole team thing.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about a quicker Browns defense Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer Follow on Twitter on July 06, 2013 at 11:30 PM, updated July 06, 2013 at 11:31 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio — On a lazy holiday weekend, we’re talkin’ ... About the Browns... 1. In the minicamps, you can see an added something very important on defense — speed. That’s crucial to a 3-4 defense. Until the team can actually tackle in training camp and preseason, you can’t have a true reading on the defense. But minicamps do show speed, and the Browns have more of it. 2. Spending big money for Desmond Bryant and Paul Kruger along with giving coordinator Ray Horton a lucrative four-year deal was done to create a defense that can compete in the AFC North. They could’ve kept coordinator Dick Jauron and the 4-3, but the idea is the team can take a significant step forward with Horton’s attacking 3-4. That’s where the attention is, from the $75 million spent on Kruger and Bryant to linebacker Barkevious Mingo being the top draft pick. 3. The Browns had a heavy dose of Chris Gocong (2010-11), Scott Fujita (2010-11) and Kaluka Maiava (2009-12) at the outside linebacker spots. Once upon a time, Fujita had speed, but most of that was gone when he signed here. 4. There are four new outside LBs: Jabaal Sheard, Quenton Groves, Mingo and Kruger. All have above-average speed. The Browns have been extremely pleased with Sheard’s adjustment from a 4-3 end to outside linebacker. If the season opened tomorrow, Sheard and Kruger would start on the outside, with Mingo and Groves coming off the bench. 5. The Browns believe the defensive line also will have some quickness and a lot of depth. Bryant will be one defensive end with Ahtyba Rubin at the other end and Phil Taylor in the middle. Billy Winn has the quickness to play end, with John Hughes and Ishmaa’ily Kitchen as backups. Rubin and Bryant can play any of three spots on the line. 6. At inside linebacker, D’Qwell Jackson will start and Craig Robertson has impressed at the other spot after playing outside in the 4-3. Tank Carder and L.J. Fort are in the mix. James-Michael Johnson will battle for a roster spot. 7. Don’t be surprised if Horton uses a four-man front in some passing situations, with Sheard or Mingo at defensive end to pressure the passer. Jackson said the Browns have some interesting blitzes involving inside linebackers, something not done often when they played the 3-4 under Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini. 8. They know the secondary is thin — only Joe Haden and T.J. Ward are established starters. They believe Chris Owens will be a pleasant surprise at corner, pushing rookie Leon McFadden for a starting spot. They think Buster Skrine can do a decent job on slot receivers, after having a hard time last season outside. 9. Ward will start at safety, with Tashaun Gipson and Johnson Bademosi battling for the other spot. Not sure who has the edge. Rookie Jamoris Slaughter is coming off Achilles surgery, and it’s hard to imagine him winning the job early in the season. He does hope to be physically ready for training camp. He wasn’t able to play in the minicamps. 10. I’m looking forward to what Horton does cook up. His Arizona defense was second in blitzes, using it 43 percent of the time. He has young players with fresh legs, and a front office that wants him to be daring. web page
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Quote:
I think that one thing many people seem to forget is that people get away w/poor behavior all the time. They are NOT caught every single time they do something wrong. I've known guys who broke the law every day and never got caught. While the odds of getting caught might not be great, there are still odds of it happening. Living a good, clean life may not be as much fun, but it sure is less risky.
By day I am a Behavior Specialist for the local county board of developmental disabilities. That means I can tell you that behavior is a complex mix of a variety of factors not limited to: reward, environment, experience, insight, empathy, learning ability, need, etc. Behavior can be changed most commonly by replacing it with something else more pro-social. The other thing I can say with confidence is that there are very few absolutes.
Regarding Sheard, is he the guy who "threw" somebody through a window or is he the guy who saved a neighbor from a house fire? Are all the alleged transgressions of all the Browns players with character concerns of equal moral, ethical or criminal weight? Does a mistake or weakness in one aspect of life bleed over into every other area of life?
On the most practical of levels, there is significantly higher visibility about conduct once you're in the spotlight of professional sports. Of the players listed earlier in this thread, up to now Sheard and Taylor have handled it without blemish. And Little's "sins" have largely been questions of style not substance. To me, that counts for something. I wouldn't use a broad brush to paint all of these guys with equal suspicion or guilt. At the same time I wouldn't skip along naively. All of them deserve a measured and individualized approach to their situations.
JMHO]
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hi reallly like this post.
first of all taylor is the fourth best nt in are division.
scheme wise teams are going to run right at Mingo 350 guard versus are 240 de.
Taylor will wind up being a above average nt making impacts in games like Detroit,Miami,and Buffalo,
he will disappear against teams like new england, baltimore and steelers..
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Quote:
5. The Browns believe the defensive line also will have some quickness and a lot of depth. Bryant will be one defensive end with Ahtyba Rubin at the other end and Phil Taylor in the middle. Billy Winn has the quickness to play end, with John Hughes and Ishmaa’ily Kitchen as backups. Rubin and Bryant can play any of three spots on the line
Pretty good article, but I vehemently disagree with putting Bryant over the nose, even on obvious passing downs.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I was actually excited watching the defense last year. Especially at the beginning. I saw speed we hadn't had in years. This year should be faster. Fast and attacking! Like you say, fun to watch.
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Vers- We will have some struggles with big plays but I think this is going to be a fun defense to watch and I am pumped to see these guys getting after it under Horton. I have heard a few people mention our inside backers as an alarming weakness but I think this is one of our best positions at least for starters.
Craig Robertson is the secret weapon on defense and if someone can teach that kid to catch the freaking ball, he will be a pro bowl player.
Ddubia I think Jauron is a great coach but can be to conservative when he really needs to dial it up. Only issue I have ever had with the guy. Injuries really limited him last year.
I know a lot get focused on 40 times but this front seven is loaded with players that have outstanding burst and explosion and they can cover 10 yards in a heartbeat. I think this is gonna be a feared defense but again, it is going to have growing pains and that #2 corner is the pink elephant in the room.
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I've been tooting this horn for a while now. When Phil came back from his pec injury the entire defense changed. He was disruptive, aggressive and guys simply could not handle him one on one. The energy he brought the defense was there the second he was back in the lineup.
Of all of our defensive players, I think he is the most disruptive. He was flat out tossing guys around when we played the steelers at the end of the year. I'm very high on Phil Taylor. Unlike his Baylor counterpart he appears to be the type of guy who IS and can be a true leader for this football team.
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Rookie
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I am overall really excited about this years defense and can't find anything negative to say about it. This front seven it stacked with proven talent and is young to boot. Taylor, Rubin and Bryant are going to be solid, Hughes and Wynn played really well as rookies. I actually think the 3rd round pick of Hughes was well worth it and thought he proved it on the field.
Kruger is going to make a big impact on pass-rushing and should play every bit as well if not better than he did with the Ravines.
I have big expectations for Sheard at OLB and always thought he would have made a better OLB than DE. Sheard and Kruger are going to put up big sack numbers in this defense while playing along side this DL.
Robertson is IMO going to be the big surprise this year and become one of the better ILB in the AFC, I really like what I saw from him last year all year long.
The secondary could turn out to a solid unit or the weak link. If the #2 CB steps up and plays well, and Gibson or Badamosi take the lead then this unit will be a success.
There is nothing but excitement to have fore this defense.
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j/c:
We do tend to get carried away sometimes. LOL
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Our secondary is frighteningly unproven and sketchy. I think Wynn outplayed Hughes by a country mile and I didn't think Hughes looked that good at all.
Other than that I agree, our front 7 should be the best we've had in a long time.
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The offense must carry the load especially early in the year. It is gonna take some time for the Defense to master this scheme. I feel better about the D in the long run but its gonna be shaky early. This is why the loss of Gordan the first 2 games hurts even more.
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Legend
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Quote:
Our secondary is frighteningly unproven and sketchy. I think Wynn outplayed Hughes by a country mile and I didn't think Hughes looked that good at all.
Other than that I agree, our front 7 should be the best we've had in a long time.
We are completely unproven at the #2 CB, but Haden is proven, Ward is proven. And I think that Bademosi will be fine as well. Pro Bowl Level, no,,But quality.. Yes.
We'll have to see what we have at the #2 CB spot.. that's the only real weakness and it's really not a weakness so much as it's an unknown/unproven.
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Damanshot
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The key word you said was "think." We have no idea of Bademosi will be any good. Heck, I don't even think he will start. There are two huge question marks out of 4 in our secondary. It's a legit concern.
Furthermore, Haden and Ward are both overrated by most fans on the boards. I am not saying either is terrible, but they aren't nearly as good as most fans make them out to be. They both have the potential to be that good and Horton might bring it out of them, but they aren't there yet.
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Legend
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Legend
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that's your opinion and I disagree
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What's my opinion? The part where I questioned your use of the word "think?" The part about not knowing who would start? The part about neither of the two guys have proven a thing? Which one. Those were the things I was talking about when I addressed your post. The Haden and Ward comments were extra, although I will stand by them.
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Quote:
Quote:
Our secondary is frighteningly unproven and sketchy. I think Wynn outplayed Hughes by a country mile and I didn't think Hughes looked that good at all.
Other than that I agree, our front 7 should be the best we've had in a long time.
We are completely unproven at the #2 CB, but Haden is proven, Ward is proven. And I think that Bademosi will be fine as well. Pro Bowl Level, no,,But quality.. Yes.
We'll have to see what we have at the #2 CB spot.. that's the only real weakness and it's really not a weakness so much as it's an unknown/unproven.
At this point I can't trust Ward to stay on the field. The depth is laughable at really either safety position. I like Haden a lot but he is a bit over rated, if he weren't a first round pick guys would be all over him for his flaws. Until proven otherwise an unknown, given our history is a weakness.
On the other hand I think Skrine is under rated and we did grab another corner high in the draft.
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Legend
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Legend
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Yeah I re-watched the first two games of last season and Ward was a tackling monster. We would have gotten destroyed in that Philly game if Ward wasn't such a great open-field tackler.
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