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Dui checkpoint What do you think.. Let me be clear I haven't drank alcohol since 1990 and all for getting drunk drivers off the road BUT:
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Hope this is within the rules of Dawgtalkers as I would like to see opinions
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Not sure what you're asking here.
If you're a driver and you're asked to obey a lawful command such as pulling your car to the side of the road then you should do that.
If you're asking about the legality of DUI checkpoints as a whole then I'd take that up with your local congressman.
I'm not a big fan of checkpoints for a few reasons but I do think they act as a deterrent to abhorrent behavior. I know that there are checkpoints back into my neighborhood from time to time on weekends so I don't go over the mountain to Honolulu to go out very often. And if I do I make sure I'd be well within the legal limit on my way back.
If the BAC legally goes to .05 or less I'm not sure if I could feel confident enough to go out and drink at all.
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Mostly talking about the video and the actions of the cop when he knew he was wrong
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Chief Oliver of the Brimfield Police Department on the viral video Posted on the Brimfield Police Department Facebook Page: Quote:
Chief’s Babble….on the OVI checkpoint video.
Some of you have requested an opinion on the OVI checkpoint video. Never being at a loss for words….here you go.
If you haven’t seen the video, it’s on the interweb. The video shows a young man stopping for an OVI checkpoint conducted by police officers. The man has a video device running and is taping the encounter. He rolls down his window about a third of the way. The officer requests the driver roll down the window further and the driver tells the officer the window is fine and then very calmly starts citing his constitutional rights. The officer becomes a flustered and there are some more exchanges between the two. The driver subsequently gets told to exit the vehicle, gets diverted to the staging area, refuses to give consent to search his car and a dog is summoned. The K-9 does not alert on the vehicle. That is the short version of the video…. Here are some points to ponder…..
•If you truly believe in the Constitution and America, you must adhere to the entire document AND constitutional case law. The Constitution established three branches of government, one of which is the judicial branch. The United States Supreme Court decided checkpoints are not an unreasonable search and seizure, providing strict guidelines are followed. Not unconstitutional. The point being, if we are citing the rulebook, you must acknowledge all of the rules. If the checkpoint was set up properly, the driver could have avoided it all together. If you do not like the rules, vote accordingly. Elections have consequences. It’s the Checks and Balances.
•I believe in this country as much as anyone. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are sacred documents to me. I know these writings well. Yet, I have NEVER carried a video recorder with me and recited those rights to others. That is passive-aggressive at best. Driving through an OVI checkpoint voluntarily (the checkpoints must be highly publicized and provide alternate routes) with a video camera rolling, being generally non-compliant with requests and…obstinate…. is not a function most people find normal or comfortable. Now the the driver was very polite, yet stubborn....you could say he was baiting the officer.....
•The officer’s demeanor was not great. As an officer you cannot let another person dictate your response. It is difficult at times, because police officers are human (gasp!). We have had dealings with passive aggressive types before. You must have patience and keep working towards the goal…which is keeping people safe.
•I would have diverted the vehicle, just like the officer did. When checking for an impaired driver, smell is very important. So is hearing. With a window rolled down a third of the way, you lose much of both. If the officer says “oh well” and lets the motorist pass….and two miles down the road he hits a minivan full of kids coming from a birthday party….yikes. Police work equals damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Always take the damn that results in no loss of life.
I expect our die hard anti-government types to start blasting away. I understand, yet disagree. Again, remember….the Constitution is a BIG idea. Rights have responsibilities. Instead of concentrating on how “you” should benefit, think about how society benefits from the entire concept.
We the people….not I, me, mine……Chief Oliver
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I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
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Quote:
Chief Oliver of the Brimfield Police Department on the viral video
Posted on the Brimfield Police Department Facebook Page:
Quote:
Chief’s Babble….on the OVI checkpoint video.
Some of you have requested an opinion on the OVI checkpoint video. Never being at a loss for words….here you go.
If you haven’t seen the video, it’s on the interweb. The video shows a young man stopping for an OVI checkpoint conducted by police officers. The man has a video device running and is taping the encounter. He rolls down his window about a third of the way. The officer requests the driver roll down the window further and the driver tells the officer the window is fine and then very calmly starts citing his constitutional rights. The officer becomes a flustered and there are some more exchanges between the two. The driver subsequently gets told to exit the vehicle, gets diverted to the staging area, refuses to give consent to search his car and a dog is summoned. The K-9 does not alert on the vehicle. That is the short version of the video…. Here are some points to ponder…..
•If you truly believe in the Constitution and America, you must adhere to the entire document AND constitutional case law. The Constitution established three branches of government, one of which is the judicial branch. The United States Supreme Court decided checkpoints are not an unreasonable search and seizure, providing strict guidelines are followed. Not unconstitutional. The point being, if we are citing the rulebook, you must acknowledge all of the rules. If the checkpoint was set up properly, the driver could have avoided it all together. If you do not like the rules, vote accordingly. Elections have consequences. It’s the Checks and Balances.
•I believe in this country as much as anyone. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are sacred documents to me. I know these writings well. Yet, I have NEVER carried a video recorder with me and recited those rights to others. That is passive-aggressive at best. Driving through an OVI checkpoint voluntarily (the checkpoints must be highly publicized and provide alternate routes) with a video camera rolling, being generally non-compliant with requests and…obstinate…. is not a function most people find normal or comfortable. Now the the driver was very polite, yet stubborn....you could say he was baiting the officer.....
•The officer’s demeanor was not great. As an officer you cannot let another person dictate your response. It is difficult at times, because police officers are human (gasp!). We have had dealings with passive aggressive types before. You must have patience and keep working towards the goal…which is keeping people safe.
•I would have diverted the vehicle, just like the officer did. When checking for an impaired driver, smell is very important. So is hearing. With a window rolled down a third of the way, you lose much of both. If the officer says “oh well” and lets the motorist pass….and two miles down the road he hits a minivan full of kids coming from a birthday party….yikes. Police work equals damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Always take the damn that results in no loss of life.
I expect our die hard anti-government types to start blasting away. I understand, yet disagree. Again, remember….the Constitution is a BIG idea. Rights have responsibilities. Instead of concentrating on how “you” should benefit, think about how society benefits from the entire concept.
We the people….not I, me, mine……Chief Oliver
Love reading Chief Oliver's thoughts on things 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
"If the checkpoint was set up properly, the driver could have avoided it all together.
Sure. Turn down a side street before the stop and be prepared. About a month ago a few drivers, as well as I, avoided one at about 730 PM by turning before we got to the long line. There were 2 police cars waiting for that move and pulled over 2 cars that may or may not have avoided it on purpose. (See "fake drug stop" thread) If they had more cars I am sure I would have had to deal with the inconvenience too. Had to do it once in the past on the way into Blossom. It took so long it cost me the first 4 songs of the concert. Drug dog and everything. Gestapo tactics.
“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.” -AOC
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Quote:
I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video. So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it 
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I think that, if you don't drink and drive, then checkpoints shouldn't be a problem. If I ever drove through one, I'd comply with the police because I'd have nothing to fear.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video.
Because I trust the interpretations of friends that have seen it.
Quote:
So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it
No, he's a snot-nosed kid and a punk because it was a set-up from the start. He staged it with intent of getting a rise out of the cop and the whole thing is about "look at me, I'm showing up The Man". It's a childish stunt. See Chief Oliver's words for something much more succinct that I can currently offer.
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Quote:
I think that, if you don't drink and drive, then checkpoints shouldn't be a problem. If I ever drove through one, I'd comply with the police because I'd have nothing to fear.
and notice where I haven't drank alcohol since 1990. But I can not stand the attitude of that cop. "he knows his constitutional rights and knows he's done nothing wrong" so let's go ahead and violate his rights anyhow.
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Legend
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video. So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it
I saw the video.
He's a snot nosed punk.
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The cop seemed to realize the driver knew his rights and the kid was respectful just not compliant so the cop ran the k9 over the kids car, scratching it but never cared. What if you had a new car and you were compliant but for some reason they felt the need to run the k9 over the hood of your new car.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video. So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it
I saw the video.
He's a snot nosed punk.
why?
Last edited by Moxdawg; 07/08/13 10:07 PM.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Quote:
The cop seemed to realize the driver knew his rights and the kid was respectful just not compliant so the cop ran the k9 over the kids car, scratching it but never cared. What if you had a new car and you were compliant but for some reason they felt the need to run the k9 over the hood of your new car.
If he had just rolled the window down, and answered the question, "Have you been drinking tonight" without giving the officer to believe he had been, he would have been on his way and this would have been a moot point.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video. So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it
I saw the video.
He's a snot nosed punk.
why?
Do I really have to explain why pulling up to a DUI checkpoint, with the camera rolling, and responding to, "Roll your window down" with "No, it's fine here" is being a snot nosed punk? Really?
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It was staged. You know I was pulled over once because I was driving home from work at 3 in the morning. We all know it was because it was 3 in the morning and the cop was nice about it but I was doing nothing wrong it was just 3 in the morning. Now I'm pretty sure that probably was an illegal stop but still doesn't make it right that you can be pulled over just because.
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It must just be me. I would've thought more people would have other opinions. I'm all for getting drunk drivers off the road but they never did ask If he'd been drinking. Funny for a DUI checkpoint don't you think. I think the objective, (to make a point) changed once the kid stopped being compliant
Last edited by Moxdawg; 07/08/13 10:07 PM.
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Most (if not all) DUI checkpoints are funded by federal grants that have to be used.
There was one on South Avenue a few years ago, and I didn't feel like stopping and waiting ..... so I pulled into the Lowes/Walmart parking lot, and avoided it entirely. It was something around 9PM ..... and I had just left the house, and wasn't even 1% drunk, because I hadn't even sniffed booze. No one chased me down, No one shot at me. No one even looked at me.
I wondered how anyone who was drinking could have been stupid enough to drive through the checkpoint. A simple turn into the WalMart parking lot, and a quick walk inside wouldn't have been looked at twice.
I went through another one another time, and I was the designated driver. I hadn't had a drink, but I was in a car with some pretty intoxicated people. I pulled up to the checkpoint.the cop stuck his head in. (I think he tried to get a whiff of my breath) He asked me a couple of questions. I told him that I was the designated driver. He said "good job", or something like that, and on we went. No fuss, no muss.
The only problem I have with DUI checkpoints isn't that they are set up. My main problem is that they are federally funded, and mandated if the local government wants other funding.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This isn't the same nation I grew up in in terms of your rights.
Of course was it really ever that way or is it simply my imagination?
In the 70's they supposedly had to have "probable cause" to pull you over, but I know many, including myself who were pulled over just like you were. Because of the time of night it was. Not anything we were actually doing.
As it stands, I just feel the law is more open and honest that they are actually public about many of the tactics they use today.
I don't agree with pulling people over for no reason. I don't agree with checkpoints either. But it is what it is.
I do find it odd that some of the same people who disagree with government surveillance seem to have no problem with the checkpoints. Seems to me it's a very similar thing only on a smaller, local scale.
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right, I think that pulling over people driving down a road for no just cause should be considered one of the first steps that has gotten us to the point we are now.
I mean if you can use safety as a reason to get people to accept that they need no just cause to pull people over, how far could we go and get away with that kind of thing?
I believe we are seeing some of those results now.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You can debate the legality of the DUI checkpoint, and that would be fine.
You said, "The objective changed once the kid stopped being compliant.
The kid was being non-compliant from the beginning. The first thing asked of him was to roll down his window, and his response was, "No, it's fine here."
The second question was, "How old are you?" to which he replied, asking if he had to answer the question.
Here's how that stop SHOULD have gone.
Officer : "Will you roll down your window?"
Kid : Rolls down window
Officer : How old are you?
Kid : 21, sir.
Officer : Have you been drinking tonight?
Kid : No sir.
Officer : Have a good night.
And that's likely how it would have gone if he hadn't been a snot nosed punk from the beginning.
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Quote:
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right
Can someone explain this to me? If my tax money is going to fund highways why don't I have a right to drive if I can pass applicable safety tests?
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Quote:
You can debate the legality of the DUI checkpoint, and that would be fine.
You said, "The objective changed once the kid stopped being compliant.
The kid was being non-compliant from the beginning. The first thing asked of him was to roll down his window, and his response was, "No, it's fine here."
The second question was, "How old are you?" to which he replied, asking if he had to answer the question.
Here's how that stop SHOULD have gone.
Officer : "Will you roll down your window?"
Kid : Rolls down window
Officer : How old are you?
Kid : 21, sir.
Officer : Have you been drinking tonight?
Kid : No sir.
Officer : Have a good night.
And that's likely how it would have gone if he hadn't been a snot nosed punk from the beginning.
+1
His answers were designed to irrate the cop and he proved it was planned by the camera. He's a punk.
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Quote:
Quote:
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right
Can someone explain this to me? If my tax money is going to fund highways why don't I have a right to drive if I can pass applicable safety tests?
You pretty much hit on it in your question. You are PERMITTED to drive provided that you pass the tests and obeys the rules. You do not have any inherent RIGHT to operate a motor vehicle. It is illegal to operate a motor vehicle on public roads without a valid operator's license. The only RIGHTS you have are guaranteed in the Constitution - driving is not one of them.
You could say that you have a Right to pursue an operator's license, but you do not inherently have a Right to operate a motor vehicle on public roads.
All of this exists without regard for your tax status.
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Quote:
Quote:
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right
Can someone explain this to me? If my tax money is going to fund highways why don't I have a right to drive if I can pass applicable safety tests?
You are also allowed to walk down most of those roads you pay taxes for, or ride a bus that uses them, or a bicycle, motorcycle, or the services of emergency vehicles to get to your house. Your taxes are not explicitly for your driving privileges.
The only problem I have with the scenario is the searching of the vehicle, but he may have brought that on himself with his butthead attitude in the beginning.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
This isn't he same nation I grew up in in terms of your rights.
Of course was it really ever that way or is it simply my imagination?
In the 70's they supposedly had to have "probable cause" to pull you over, but I know many, including myself who were pulled over just like you were. Because of the time of night it was. Not anything we were actually doing.
As it stands, I just feel the law is more open and honest that they are actually public about many of the tactics they use today.
I don't agree with pulling people over for no reason. I don't agree with checkpoints either. But it is what it is.
I do find it odd that some of the same people who disagree with government surveillance seem to have no problem with the checkpoints. Seems to me it's a very similar thing only on a smaller, local scale.
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right, I think that pulling over people driving down a road for no just cause should be considered one of the first steps that has gotten us to the point we are now.
I mean if you can use safety as a reason to get people to accept that they need no just cause to pull people over, how far could we go and get away with that kind of thing?
I believe we are seeing some of those results now.
jmho
I agree. This is where I'm coming from. I posted this because my nephew posted it on his Facebook page... Let me give little information on my nephew. His name could be changed to Mr. Constitution. He's always spouting off the Constitution and the rights therein... He was outraged with "this punk" I disagreed with his assessment of the video after watching it. Especially with the term he used that the kid was disrespectful... He was saying yes sir frequently. He just wasn't being completely compliant. Anyhow in the middle of our discussion he blocked me and stopped receiving my texts after calling me an idiot.the
I am at a loss at how he can view that the kid was a punk when he's always for personal rights. At least Iknow wwhere I stand!
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I was raised to be respectful to authority. So unless I feel the police are infringing on my rights, I don't see any reason not to adhere to their basic requests in the name of respect.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right
Can someone explain this to me? If my tax money is going to fund highways why don't I have a right to drive if I can pass applicable safety tests?
The reality is the tax money that goes towards roads is generated through gasoline taxes and toll taxes. If you aren't driving, you aren't paying the taxes other than maybe some small percentage because you might be using a gallon of gas a month to mow your lawn, or you still fly Cox model airplanes.
I am not going to do any research on the matter, but I think gas and toll taxes pretty much cover all the road funds.
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Legend
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I do understand that driving is a luxury and not a right
Can someone explain this to me? If my tax money is going to fund highways why don't I have a right to drive if I can pass applicable safety tests?
There is no Constitutionally protected right to drive a car.
You have permission to operate a vehicle on public roads, provided that you are licensed and insured, and have not had too many violations, or haven't broken broken certain laws.
For a right to be a right, it has to be a right unconditionally. (unless it puts others at risk)
Voting is a right. You don't have to "do" anything except register to vote in order to be able to vote.
You have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have to apply for them. You have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and so on. While these rights do not guarantee that you are allowed to libel or slander someone, the inherent right is yours no matter what your status.
Driving is a privledge, and privledges can be suspended, or taken away entirely. For the most part, rights cannot be. (although they certainly push the Constitution quite a ways when they suspend voting rights for those convicted of a felony. I'm still not certain that is Constitutional)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I wouldn't call him a 'snot-nosed punk', but he got what he was asking for.
No one violated his rights.
You do not have to roll down your window all the way for the police. He was entirely within his rights to tell the officer that it was fine where it was.
But if you choose to go that route, expect to be hassled. Plain and simple.
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Legend
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(although they certainly push the Constitution quite a ways when they suspend voting rights for those convicted of a felony. I'm still not certain that is Constitutional)
I agree. I can see not being able to vote while incarcerated, but once released, your right to vote should be restored.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I was watching Dateline over the weekend where girl came up missing and when they found her she was found below a bridge... When they found her killer it was a cop... He pulled her over because she was a blonde in a nice car. He used his speaker to order her to pull off an exit. He ordered her out of the car than came on to her. When she refused his advances he hit her with his flashlight. When realizing what he had done he strangled with a belt and threw her off a bridge.. Maybe if she had said yes sir make it quick and as painless as possible she might still be alive. After all he was an officer of the law..
I know this is extreme but it happened. So maybe rolling a window to a crack ain't a bad idea
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Legend
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I was watching Dateline over the weekend where girl came up missing and when they found her she was found below a bridge... When they found her killer it was a cop... He pulled her over because she was a blonde in a nice car. He used his speaker to order her to pull off an exit. He ordered her out of the car than came on to her. When she refused his advances he hit her with his flashlight. When realizing what he had done he strangled with a belt and threw her off a bridge.. Maybe if she had said yes sir make it quick and as painless as possible she might still be alive. After all he was an officer of the law..
I know this is extreme but it happened. So maybe rolling a window to a crack ain't a bad idea
Do what you need to do if you don't feel safe rolling down your window.....lol
Don't even stop and just keep driving. They will probably just stop following you after 2-3miles. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I haven't watched the video, yet, but if it is the one that has been making the rounds on Facebook the past few days, it is a video of a snot-nosed kid not realizing that driving is a Privilege that he is NOT inherently entitled to. It is NOT a Right.
how can you make that judgement about the kid if you never watched the video. So he's a snot-nosed kid because he knows his constitutional rights and showed it
why?
I saw the video.
He's a snot nosed punk.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Legend
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Legend
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I was watching Dateline over the weekend where girl came up missing and when they found her she was found below a bridge... When they found her killer it was a cop... He pulled her over because she was a blonde in a nice car. He used his speaker to order her to pull off an exit. He ordered her out of the car than came on to her. When she refused his advances he hit her with his flashlight. When realizing what he had done he strangled with a belt and threw her off a bridge.. Maybe if she had said yes sir make it quick and as painless as possible she might still be alive. After all he was an officer of the law..
I know this is extreme but it happened. So maybe rolling a window to a crack ain't a bad idea
Stopping at a DUI checkpoint and stopping on some dark deserted road are 2 different things.
And if you think the girl rolling down the window was the defining moment in that encounter, then your forgetting that that flashlight could easily break out her window as well as the gun on his hip, I doubt the window being up or down would be the mitigating circumstance.
I made a cop follow me nearly 5 miles because I was on a small 2 lane road in the middle of farmland. Put on my hazards and continued driving until I reached a populated area. He never said a word about the extended drive, just came up and asked where I was coming from and where I was going, and for my license.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Was just making an example. Not against cops and I'm not afraid for my safety if I get pulled over.. I just got a major problem with this cops attitude... I don't care what the kid said or didn't say the cop should have acted better. I even seen one response somewhere from another cop stating the cop acted appropriately even to the point of scratching the kids car. If that is true then that is crap because there is no reason that dog had to go over the hood of that kids car.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Hall of Famer
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Comply or be intimidated and threatened. Dont worry its for your own safety.
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Legend
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Legend
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He never said a word about the extended drive, just came up and asked where I was coming from and where I was going, and for my license.
Question.......
What does "where you are coming from and where are you going" any business of his or has any baring on a traffic offense or crime?
See, this is the type of overreach we see often times. It sounds like you were pulled over just for the sake of being pulled over and checked out for no valid reason if the officer had nothing else to say in terms of your driving.
At some point, there should be some sufficient reason for pulling people over.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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