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Comply or be intimidated and threatened. Dont worry its for your own safety.
I get what you're trying to say, but you're also missing what these officers also have to be prepared for. If a kid in the car is mouthy and not following directions, does he also have a gun pointed at the door, 50 pounds of coke in the backseat, or a dead body in the trunk? They have a lot on their minds when doing their jobs.
I'm sure quite a few of them don't like DUI checkpoints too. Anytime they stop a car, they need to be ready for anything. You'd be a little on edge too.
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Comply or be intimidated and threatened. Dont worry its for your own safety.
I get what you're trying to say, but you're also missing what these officers also have to be prepared for. If a kid in the car is mouthy and not following directions, does he also have a gun pointed at the door, 50 pounds of coke in the backseat, or a dead body in the trunk? They have a lot on their minds when doing their jobs.
I'm sure quite a few of them don't like DUI checkpoints too. Anytime they stop a car, they need to be ready for anything. You'd be a little on edge too.
It was pretty obvious after the first minute what he was doing. They wanted to prove a point and they did. Unfortunately for them he was recording it. They have rules to follow too, and all too often they over reach. The "hit" from the dog was a BS reason to search, the K( unit even admitted it.
The guy that started the thing is under investigation so maybe his chief thinks he crossed the line as well.
Last edited by Arps; 07/09/13 12:53 PM.
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It seemed more like small talk to me, but of the 3 times I've been pulled over in 25+ years, I think they all asked that when they came to the window. He pulled me over because I had a taillight out, and was driving rather slow on a dark empty 2 lane road through farms at around midnight. It probably seemed somewhat suspicious except I had just gotten in on a flight that I had to redirect and decided to fly into an airport 2 hrs from home and rent a car rather than spend the night after a cancelled flight. I was not familiar with the road and it was like pitch black, and you could barley tell the road from the shoulder. Hence why I made him follow me for like 5 miles. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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He never said a word about the extended drive, just came up and asked where I was coming from and where I was going, and for my license.
Question.......
What does "where you are coming from and where are you going" any business of his or has any baring on a traffic offense or crime?
See, this is the type of overreach we see often times. It sounds like you were pulled over just for the sake of being pulled over and checked out for no valid reason if the officer had nothing else to say in terms of your driving.
At some point, there should be some sufficient reason for pulling people over.
Just getting facts more than likely. If there's something up, and later the story changes........etc, etc.
I got pulled over in TN when I was 23. For "speeding". However, my friend in the car in front of me didn't get pulled over. Cop asked me if I knew why he pulled me over, and I didn't, so I said "no." He said "speeding. Can you step out of the car?"
I did. He then said he needed to ask me some questions and told me to get in his back seat. Like an idiot, I did. Asked where I had been, where I was going, how long I'd been where I'd been, if I had anything of value in the car. About this time, another cop pulled up into the median, throwing grass all over. I saw "my" cop wave him off, but he still sat in his car, watching us.
Cop asked if he could search my vehicle, and like an idiot, I said "yes". (then thought: I'm screwed. I can't get out of this car, he can go up and plant drugs and I'm toast."
Cop went, did a cursory check of the interior, then opened the trunk, flipped some things around, then came back, opened the back door, let me out, and said "don't speed anymore."
I hadn't been speeding to begin with. Only thing I can figure is there had been some sort of crime and the car they were looking for was similar to mine.
I got no ticket. No written warning, etc.
Cops can pull you over for any reason they so desire, because, after all, it's their word against yours.
I don't do it, but I honestly feel video taping if you get pulled over is a smart move. You can't rely on the cops video.
Perfect example: A friend of mine got pulled over for speeding - 70 in a 55. He wasn't going 70, but was going 57. For his court appearance, he'd done all the homework. Even went so far as to request the video and audio from the HP, since the officer told him it would be available to him if he requested it. When he went in to request it, lo and behold, "the camera and audio weren't working that day." That's what he was told.
In court, the cop lied. The guy said "I wasn't going 70, and the cop has no proof I was going 70, I was going 57."
Judge said "well, the speed limit was 55, you admitted to 57. Pay the fine and court costs."
I would guess 95 to 99% of cops are fair and accurate......but, as in all things, the few bad apples create problems - CAN create problems and distrust for the others.
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Legend
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Quote:
Question.......
What does "where you are coming from and where are you going" any business of his or has any baring on a traffic offense or crime?
See, this is the type of overreach we see often times. It sounds like you were pulled over just for the sake of being pulled over and checked out for no valid reason if the officer had nothing else to say in terms of your driving.
At some point, there should be some sufficient reason for pulling people over.
The SC has already ruled that a legal DUI checkpoint, properly done, is sufficient reason... I'm not saying I agree with it, but that legal precedent has already been set.
As for the questions, it's really just to get you talking so they can judge your mannerisms, how nervous are you, are you slurring your words, do you appear overly anxious like you are trying to hide something... Unless you want to volunteer that you are returning from pounding 18 beers at the bar and you are on your way to pick up a hooker, I don't think he really cares where you are coming from or where you are going.
yebat' Putin
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The SC has already ruled that a legal DUI checkpoint, properly done, is sufficient reason... I'm not saying I agree with it, but that legal precedent has already been set.
Small narative...
web page
"According to the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, unreasonable searches and seizures of U.S. citizens are forbidden. There must be probable cause for a law enforcement agent to arrest or search people on their private property. This means that an officer must have reasonable suspicion based on facts that a crime has occurred.
This leads many people to ask how officers can legally stop drivers at sobriety checkpoints.
Do Sobriety Checkpoints Violate The 4th Amendment?
The Michigan State Supreme Court found that sobriety checkpoints violated the Fourth Amendment. However, in a split decision, the United States Supreme Court ruled that properly conducted checkpoints are legal, and reversed the Michigan Court’s decision.
The Supreme Court acknowledges that DUI roadblocks violate a fundamental constitutional right. However, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued in a majority opinion that sobriety checkpoints are justified because the state’s interest in reducing drunk driving outweighs the minor infringement on an individual’s rights.
Debating The Legality Of DUI Roadblocks
The dissenting judges argued that the Constitution does not provide exceptions to the Fourth Amendment. Judge Brennan argued, “That stopping every car might make it easier to prevent drunken driving...is an insufficient justification for abandoning the requirement of individualized suspicion.”
Judge Stevens, who also dissented in this case, argued that the net effect of checkpoints on traffic safety is small, and possibly negative. He also stated that even if roadblocks were effective, conducting them would not justify violating people’s constitutional rights.
Many DUI attorneys call this ruling “the DUI exception to the Constitution.”
Although the U.S. Supreme Court has made this exemption to the Constitution, eleven states did not abide by the decision. These states found that sobriety checkpoints violate their constitution or outlawed them. People in these states have more protections against unreasonable searches and police DUI roadblocks are prohibited. "
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Much like the patriot act...ignore the constitution in the name of your safety.
He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither. ~Ben Franklin
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He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither. ~Ben Franklin
Exactly. And it's not proven that DUI checkpoints make us any more safe...
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Sobriety Checkpoints ARE CONSTITUTIONAL
What rights of his were violated?
Why did this talk-back go any further than this link being posted? Sobriety checkpoints are CONSTITUTIONAL.
Cop is doing his job. Snot-Nose doesn't learn the law before pulling this stupid crap.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche.
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche.
WOW.. So many have fought and died for the fundamental constitutional of rights of the individual American.
"[The] best principles [of our republic] secure to all its citizens a perfect equality of rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to the Citizens of Wilmington, 1809. ME 16:336
"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393
I mean WOW.
SaintDawg™
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_CartaThe 1215 charter required King John of England to proclaim certain liberties and accept that his will was not arbitrary—for example by explicitly accepting that no "freeman" (in the sense of non-serf) could be punished except through the law of the land, a right that still exists. This goes back to the Magna Carta.. OMG WOW.. Holy Moly.. that someone would actually say something like: Quote:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche
Is unbeliveable. WOW
Ok.. ok.. so maybe this is a "serf" situation. So King John could do anything he wanted. That works.
SaintDawg™
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Quote:
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche.
WOW.. So many have fought and died for the fundamental constitutional of rights of the individual American.
Oh, so I called one attention whore w/ a camera set up in his car a douche. Big deal...
I already stated my case by saying these checkpoints are CONSTITUTIONAL and you tell me about those who fought and died for the CONSTITUTIONAL rights of individuals? Huh? Is this like a chicken & the egg type conversation now . . . ?
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Play it off however you want.
WOW.
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It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain...
Don't let the premise of knowing the difference between a right and a privilege confuse you..
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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This country was not founded on the right of the many vs the few.
You both need to review history. And thats sad. I made no difference between rights and priviledges. I'll leave that for you to argue Mr Twain.
I repeat my objection to the statement I quoted.
A moron is a moron.. in this case the guy invited the cops to take a further step. Not smart.
However, the right of the many do NOT supercede the rights of the individual.
And thanks, I'm not confused Mr Charger.
SaintDawg™
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Actually my comment was more on the general direction of the thread and not specifically pointed at you....
That stated, I do have a problem with using the magna carta as a basis for this argument in US law, simply because it is not relevant. Granted, the principle goes back to the magna carta, but that is analogous to saying democracy goes back to the ancient Greek civilization.
As others have stated, licensing is a privilege and is not a right. So different rules apply.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I have a question ...... and this isn't a response to anyone in particular .........
People have a problem with DUI checkpoints, because it assumes that some might be guilty without any specific, prior cause, correct?
How about roadblocks that stop cars when a child has been kidnapped? Aren't they using the same assumptions? No one is assumed guilty, but they have a specific reason for the roadblocks/stops ... and they can arrest someone if they find the child and his/her kidnapper.
Does the reason for the stop make one right and one wrong? Isn't a stop without probable cause or witnessing a violation the same no matter the reason?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Town ... folks have a problem with the whole kit and kaboodal ! .. A dui Checkpiont is just the tip of the Iceberg .. The feds / the states / the cops / NSA / FBI / IRS / , Might as well throw in the Congress and the Supreme Court too ..
Ton of angry folks in the Country right now ..
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Quote:
Quote:
Sobriety Checkpoints ARE CONSTITUTIONAL
What rights of his were violated?
Why did this talk-back go any further than this link being posted? Sobriety checkpoints are CONSTITUTIONAL.
Cop is doing his job. Snot-Nose doesn't learn the law before pulling this stupid crap.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche.
Quote:
Q: Are sobriety checkpoints constitutional?
A: Yes. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the validity of sobriety checkpoints in Michigan v. Sitz, even though the law generally forbids law enforcement officers from stopping drivers unless there is a suspicion that the drivers have violated the law. In the Michigan v. Sitz case, the Court found that the intrusion and inconvenience of to individuals who are stopped is outweighed by the government’s interest in curbing drunk driving.
They may have ruled it constitutional, but the law already stated they can't, so they ruled an exclusion for "the governments interest".
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Cop is doing his job.
Not to get all wild and extreme here but a lot of horrible things have been done by people claiming they were just "doing their job"....
Quote:
Snot-Nose doesn't learn the law before pulling this stupid crap.
So does the law state that you have to roll down your window beyond the point that you can hear the officer and pass documentation back and forth?
Does the law state that you have to answer questions about where you are coming from and where you are going?
What is the driver required, by law, to actually do at a traffic stop? Is your answer, "Whatever the cop tells you to do?"
Because it looks to me like the kid knew the law better than the cop and that really ticked the cop off that the kid would dare to invoke his rights instead of being obedient like most people and volunteering information they didn't have to give and doing things they didn't have to do.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
The 1215 charter required King John of England to proclaim certain liberties and accept that his will was not arbitrary—for example by explicitly accepting that no "freeman" (in the sense of non-serf) could be punished except through the law of the land, a right that still exists.
This goes back to the Magna Carta.. OMG WOW.. Holy Moly.. that someone would actually say something like:
Quote:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the douche
Is unbeliveable. WOW
Ok.. ok.. so maybe this is a "serf" situation. So King John could do anything he wanted. That works.
I'm with you Saint...
#gmstrong
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Rosa Parks was being a douche by not sitting at the back of the bus too  People who try to change the status quo are not usually viewed as right by the majority...
#gmstrong
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Rosa Parks was being a douche by not sitting at the back of the bus too
People who try to change the status quo are not usually viewed as right by the majority...
And she was arrested for doing so... Although she was sitting in the "colored" section, but the "white only" section was full and she refused to move when the bus driver asked her to move to make room for a white passenger.
Kind of proves the point, if your going to stand up against the norm, expect some resistance along the way.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 07/10/13 11:25 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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That's amazing.. I was actually thinking Rosa Parks last night and this morning but I decided not to get into that.
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Quote:
The SC has already ruled that a legal DUI checkpoint, properly done, is sufficient reason... I'm not saying I agree with it, but that legal precedent has already been set.
And that's where I'm at with all of this. I disagree with it, but it is the law of the land. I myself haven't drank for years now. So it really has no impact on me as a driver.
I just feel that even in the decision itself, they admitted it wasn't "by the book constitutional". I feel the way it was written was almost contradictory.
Quote:
As for the questions, it's really just to get you talking so they can judge your mannerisms, how nervous are you, are you slurring your words, do you appear overly anxious like you are trying to hide something... Unless you want to volunteer that you are returning from pounding 18 beers at the bar and you are on your way to pick up a hooker, I don't think he really cares where you are coming from or where you are going.
Florida gave some reasoning as to why he felt he was stopped that made sense to me. I know my first job after I got my license was working until 3 AM on the week-ends at a local town newspaper. I was stopped twice. Once by the town cops and once by the county.
In both cases there was no real reason. It was simply what time of night it was. Once they figured out I was going home from work, no further stops.
Arch
You are right in your post IMO. There aren't a lot of bad cops out there, but there are enough to make things look bad. A small percentage but you have that in every walk of life.
I just feel that government intrusion has gotten to catastrophic proportions. Almost as if the Supreme Court itself has given the green light to it in many respects. Not strictly in the instance of DUI checkpoints, but in so many ways.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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jc
Just because the kid was goading the police officer, does not give the officer a right to do that to him.
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Quote:
Quote:
Cop is doing his job.
Not to get all wild and extreme here but a lot of horrible things have been done by people claiming they were just "doing their job"....
Quote:
Snot-Nose doesn't learn the law before pulling this stupid crap.
So does the law state that you have to roll down your window beyond the point that you can hear the officer and pass documentation back and forth?
Does the law state that you have to answer questions about where you are coming from and where you are going?
What is the driver required, by law, to actually do at a traffic stop? Is your answer, "Whatever the cop tells you to do?"
Because it looks to me like the kid knew the law better than the cop and that really ticked the cop off that the kid would dare to invoke his rights instead of being obedient like most people and volunteering information they didn't have to give and doing things they didn't have to do.
This is my point exactly..This is where I was going when I started this threat..This was the point I was trying to make to my nephew when I evidently upset him till he blocked me then stopped receiving texts, that's another story though. As I stated, Haven't drank since 1990 and don't have issues with 99% of police but this kid knew his rights better then the cop and this upset the cop.. I can't stand that. I don't want anyone to lose there job but I do hope it's explained thoroughly to the cop the rights of individuals and the proper way to handle this situation in the future. I honestly would cooperate as to what the cop asked me but if someone wants to crack there window than that is all someone should do.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Legend
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I honestly would cooperate as to what the cop asked me
Me to... within reason... but if the kid is allowed by law to do something and he opts to do it, the cop should be trained better to not get mad and more volatile.
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FWIW
That cop was forced to resign once before for lying to cover himself after an accident. Some folks just don't have the moral compass and temperament for law enforcement.
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Quote:
I have a question ...... and this isn't a response to anyone in particular .........
People have a problem with DUI checkpoints, because it assumes that some might be guilty without any specific, prior cause, correct?
How about roadblocks that stop cars when a child has been kidnapped? Aren't they using the same assumptions? No one is assumed guilty, but they have a specific reason for the roadblocks/stops ... and they can arrest someone if they find the child and his/her kidnapper.
Does the reason for the stop make one right and one wrong? Isn't a stop without probable cause or witnessing a violation the same no matter the reason?
Good question. My initial thought on this is that in the case where a child has been kidnapped, we know a crime has been committed. In the case of the DUI check point, the police are fishing in search of a crime. So to make this a little more apples to apples, we would have to set up "kidnapping check points" on Saturday nights.  To which I say, it was slippery slope when the SC ruled in favor of DUI check points.
Not sure what is the reasoning as to how DUI check points can be legal (in the name of safety) yet Drug check points are illegal? I would argue that the guy hauling heroine is more dangerous to society than someone who is .08 BAC. For the childrens sake, we really should stop everyone everyday and check for those drugs. /sarcasm
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For the childrens sake, we really should stop everyone everyday and check for those drugs. /sarcasm
I heard in San Francisco they are implementing random rectal examination check points.
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This coming from the guy living in the world's capital for tranny prostitutes?
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