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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I keep hearing that we are going to use a lot of two TE sets. My question is why? Our TEs as a unit are pathetically weak. Why would we want to put more of them on the field? If that is indeed their plan, and there is no proof of that--other than wild speculation from posters---I will be upset.
I really have no idea. On paper the unit doesn't look good. But neither does OM. We don't really look good in either department so I'm not sure what the plan is here.
Which is kind of why I said it was a question that crossed my mind. I'm not sure of what they're going to do there.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not sure what the plan is here...
The coaching staff knows what they have/have not, and what they want to do as opposed to what the current personnel will allow them to do, so let's be patient and see how this plays out...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I'm not sure what the plan is here...
The coaching staff knows what they have/have not, and what they want to do as opposed to what the current personnel will allow them to do, so let's be patient and see how this plays out...
Oh I wasn't raising up a big deal about it. But as I said, on paper neither the TE unit nor OM at FB look promising.
I'm not sure you're correct however. Just because the FO has decided to "go with what you got" doesn't mean they're convinced they have all of their issues addressed in any means.
I believe they have a lot of questions that will only play out by seeing what they have this season at many positions. I think in many cases they're waiting to see what they have at many positions more than knowing what they have.
I don't see how a choice between using OM more at FB or using two TE sets more is a win in either direction. Time will tell and that's all fine and well. But from what we have seen and know about OM and our TE unit, neither seems to be a strength that you can rest your laurels on.
I didn't expect this team to be a finished product after one off season. And it's most certainly not by any stretch.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
If you had read my full post, I had said to keep Owen SOLELY as a special teams player, or cut him. Either or I am okay with and either or, IMO, isn't going to make or break us in any fashion, in any aspect...
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JC
Vickers did a nice job for us while he was here. But those days are over. If we are looking to get a FB with similar traits Vickers possessed while in Cleveland, I would rather attempt to identify a young player to meet those needs long term at a lower cost, whether on this roster now or not.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Just because the FO has decided to "go with what you got" doesn't mean they're convinced they have all of their issues addressed in any means.
I didn't mean to imply that they are satisfied with the current personnel... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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JC
To those of you that think Vickers can't catch the ball where are you getting that from? He actually catches the ball quite well. You can even look back to his college stats for confirmation.
He caught almost everything thrown at him that was a catchable ball, of course the short ball was not exactly DA's strong suit so it didn't get used that much.
Still having him in for downs 1+2 when everyone KNOWS Trent is going to be blasting through would be huge. I'd sign him for a year or two until we could draft another FB. Owen is a complete waste of a roster spot.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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When he was with the texans he was WIDE open 13 yards from the ends one late in the 4th with the texans down 8 i believe. He dropped a sure fired TD that hit him in the hands... Totally just dropped it... I don't care what his stats are from college but watching I'm in person with the Texans I don't think he has good hands... Just my opinion...
<><
#gmstrong
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When he was with the texans he was WIDE open 13 yards from the ends one late in the 4th with the texans down 8 i believe. He dropped a sure fired TD that hit him in the hands... Totally just dropped it... I don't care what his stats are from college but watching I'm in person with the Texans I don't think he has good hands... Just my opinion...
I dont care if he ever touches a ball. I just want to see him take out the first guy that tries to tackle Trent.
Joe Thomas #73
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I dont care if he ever touches a ball. I just want to see him take out the first guy that tries to tackle Trent.
I wonder how much Dilfer will pay him. 
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Was Chud here when he was drafted?
No...... not when he was drafted in the 6th rd in 2006. Other notables drafted in 06 were Wimbley and DQ.
Chud was here in 04 and then back again in 07 and 08 and now 13.
With that being said it lends me to strongly believe the new FO won't bring back an FB for a 9th year to compete this year and more than likely strongly compete/challenge in what would be LV's 10th, 11th, 12th, etc years.
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Um... what? Ask Cribbs who the better blocker on kick returns was. It's Vickers by a country mile.
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Ask yourself this. If the Browns signed Lawrence Vickers, to say maybe a 2 year deal and it happened this week,
Are the Browns instantly a better football team?
Yes? or No?
The answer is obvious, it's yes!
Vickers from 4 years ago,, yeah,, I'd say yes, Vickers today? I can't even begin to think that it's obvious.
If you swap out Marecic for Vickers, the answer is clearly yes.
If you add Vickers with the intent of making him the FB when your plan was to have Ogbannaya be the starting FB, then the answer is unclear because of the unknown quantity of Ogbannaya as a FB. I would expect Vickers to still be a superior fullback, though I like the speed that Ogbannaya runs with when he catches the ball out of the backfield... just hold onto the ball!
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If you swap out Marecic for Vickers, the answer is clearly yes.
If we're signing him with the intention of him taking Marecic's spot, then I say why not?
I can't see this new regime putting up with Marecic.
One of the most annoying things that I don't like in football is the whole coach or gm (or both) coming in and cutting a bunch of guys to bring in retread players that they used to coach (you see it everywhere, we see it all the time)
I understand how it works and everything, but I think in this case, Vickers, a guy whom Chud is very familiar with? I think that would be a solid addition.
I think that says a lot about this roster, and the youth/shape of it, that Chud and Banner didn't really do that. That says to me, that this thing has been going the right way.
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Marecic played 10 games last year before he was shelved. he was inactive for 6 games, mostly in the 2nd half of the year. I really don't remember any great difference in our kick and punt teams with or without him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The fact is because he didn't make any difference. He is a decent tackle on SP coverage units, asking him to do anything else is well... possible but pointless...
Like I said, removing Owen from the big picture is not going to make or break this team in any fashion.
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Ask yourself this. If the Browns signed Lawrence Vickers, to say maybe a 2 year deal and it happened this week,
Are the Browns instantly a better football team?
Yes? or No?
The answer is obvious, it's yes!
Vickers from 4 years ago,, yeah,, I'd say yes, Vickers today? I can't even begin to think that it's obvious.
If you swap out Marecic for Vickers, the answer is clearly yes.
If you add Vickers with the intent of making him the FB when your plan was to have Ogbannaya be the starting FB, then the answer is unclear because of the unknown quantity of Ogbannaya as a FB. I would expect Vickers to still be a superior fullback, though I like the speed that Ogbannaya runs with when he catches the ball out of the backfield... just hold onto the ball!
I think it's no obvious under any circumstances (this from a guy that didn't understand him not being kept in the first place) and the reason is simple, where he's gone since leaving here, he's not exactly been a shining star.
I think it's not obvious because I don't think he's the same player.
Well, that and we don't know if Maricic is going to make the team, we don't know if they are going to have a "True" FB on the team at all.
Thus, it's not obvious for lots of reasons.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm hoping Brad Smelly gets a good look at FB this season. I think he might surprise if he gets the chance....
If they sign Vickers that's fine, but it really doesn't matter one way or the other...
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I think some people are only reading what is on the surface. He's been released by two teams and that is all the info they need to came to conclusion to throw out the "he's passed his prime" crap...
Texans were chopping on the bit to save on some cap space. Hello people they released Mario Williams around the same time too. Foster almost had a 1300 rush season the year Vickers was blocking for him. Cowboy's offensive scheme is going to two TE set, as with a lot of other teams this day n age. Does this make Vickers crap? No, you people are sometimes just too itchy to call someone old, washed up and not what once was...
JMO, but just cause some aspects make a player "expendable" - those same aspects don't make the player worthless/crap. Sometimes stuff happens b.c it's the nature of the business...
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JC
I think some people are only reading what is on the surface. He's been released by two teams and that is all the info they need to came to conclusion to throw out the "he's passed his prime" crap...
Texans were chopping on the bit to save on some cap space. Hello people they released Mario Williams around the same time too. Foster almost had a 1300 rush season the year Vickers was blocking for him. Cowboy's offensive scheme is going to two TE set, as with a lot of other teams this day n age. Does this make Vickers crap? No, you people are sometimes just too itchy to call someone old, washed up and not what once was...
JMO, but just cause some aspects make a player "expendable" - those same aspects don't make the player worthless/crap. Sometimes stuff happens b.c it's the nature of the business...
Didn't three teams release him? Cleveland, Houston and Dallas? Houston and Dallas did for sure, I think with the browns it was more a matter of his contract was up and they just didn't resign him.. (not sure of that)
As for Houston releasing him because they needed cap space, he didn't make that much there and if he was cheap and effective and needed, they'd have found a way to keep him.
he's 30 years old. Certainly doesn't mean he's washed up, but he's no spring chicken either. He's got some Mileage on him that's certain.
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No, you people are sometimes just too itchy to call someone old, washed up and not what once was...
Which people was that. Look, if you wanna try and tell me that he's the same player he was 4 years ago, then I have some swamp land in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
you seem like you are in a mood to spank someone.. So, have at it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Which people was that. Look, if you wanna try and tell me that he's the same player he was 4 years ago, then I have some swamp land in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
you seem like you are in a mood to spank someone.. So, have at it.
The people who said that which I am not going to go through this thread and make a list of names. You can read, the answer to your question is infront of you and it has been more than one person.
I never said he was the same player as four years ago. Never. Where did I say this? I said he'd be an upgrade over Owen and also likely Smelley too. Why do you need to attack me in any aspect ever since I told you to go away after you had made a childish comment a few weeks back just b/c you didn't feel like fully reading a post? Seems like you have a grudge or something and looking for ANYTHING to attack, or "spank" to get back at me.
My suggestion is, there is enough childish fighting going on here. I don't want nothing to do with that crap. If you don't have something constructive to retort, agree, or anything on my posts, save the mumbo jumbo for someone else who willing to trade blows with you bro.  i'm just here to learn, share my opinion and so forth. If I want a worthless argument, i'll talk to my girlfriend lol... 
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Which people was that. Look, if you wanna try and tell me that he's the same player he was 4 years ago, then I have some swamp land in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
you seem like you are in a mood to spank someone.. So, have at it.
The people who said that which I am not going to go through this thread and make a list of names. You can read, the answer to your question is infront of you and it has been more than one person.
I never said he was the same player as four years ago. Never. Where did I say this? I said he'd be an upgrade over Owen and also likely Smelley too. Why do you need to attack me in any aspect ever since I told you to go away after you had made a childish comment a few weeks back just b/c you didn't feel like fully reading a post? Seems like you have a grudge or something and looking for ANYTHING to attack, or "spank" to get back at me.
My suggestion is, there is enough childish fighting going on here. I don't want nothing to do with that crap. If you don't have something constructive to retort, agree, or anything on my posts, save the mumbo jumbo for someone else who willing to trade blows with you bro. i'm just here to learn, share my opinion and so forth. If I want a worthless argument, i'll talk to my girlfriend lol...
See, here' s the problem,, people express their opinions (I believe that is allowed on here) and someone like you comes along and uses the phrase "You People" and goes on to berate them.. Then when called out for doing so, you make a remark about arguing with your girlfriend.. That just cracks me up. I recognize you did that in jest.. but unfortunately, there are a few folks on here (very few) that if you disagree with them, they label you forever.
Ya know, it's ok for you and I to have differing opinions, just don't get your panties in a bunch if we don't agree.. It's really ok..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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What are you even talking about? You started the fight awhile ago over a post you didn't even read and it had nothing to do with agreeing or disgreeing, you were just a flat out rude and for no reason. I say "you people" b/c I don't want to list and call people out by their names which, IMO, would be more rude. You are the one trying in multiple threads to engage an arguement with me, yet my panties are in a bunch? Lol, welcome to the ignore list bro. Done with your childish, hypocritical mumbo jumbo Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Yes, seeing this is much better than seeing the alternative lol!
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 07/15/13 01:52 PM.
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He is 30, and you know about Banner's rule... 
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What are you even talking about? You started the fight awhile ago over a post you didn't even read and it had nothing to do with agreeing or disgreeing, you were just a flat out rude and for no reason.
I say "you people" b/c I don't want to list and call people out by their names which, IMO, would be more rude. You are the one trying in multiple threads to engage an arguement with me, yet my panties are in a bunch?
Lol, welcome to the ignore list bro. Done with your childish, hypocritical mumbo jumbo
Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Yes, seeing this is much better than seeing the alternative lol!
What the hell are you talking about?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He is 30, and you know about Banner's rule...
LOL Forgot all about that
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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What are you even talking about? You started the fight awhile ago over a post you didn't even read and it had nothing to do with agreeing or disgreeing, you were just a flat out rude and for no reason.
I say "you people" b/c I don't want to list and call people out by their names which, IMO, would be more rude. You are the one trying in multiple threads to engage an arguement with me, yet my panties are in a bunch?
Lol, welcome to the ignore list bro. Done with your childish, hypocritical mumbo jumbo
Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Yes, seeing this is much better than seeing the alternative lol!
What the hell are you talking about?
Clearly you haven't read a single thing I've said in this thread. 
yebat' Putin
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J/C He had back surgery at the end of April. Nope. Vickers Back Surgery
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If I want a worthless argument, i'll talk to my girlfriend lol...
 You still goin' out with her, Dawg?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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What are you even talking about? You started the fight awhile ago over a post you didn't even read and it had nothing to do with agreeing or disgreeing, you were just a flat out rude and for no reason.
I say "you people" b/c I don't want to list and call people out by their names which, IMO, would be more rude. You are the one trying in multiple threads to engage an arguement with me, yet my panties are in a bunch?
Lol, welcome to the ignore list bro. Done with your childish, hypocritical mumbo jumbo
Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Yes, seeing this is much better than seeing the alternative lol!
What the hell are you talking about?
Clearly you haven't read a single thing I've said in this thread.
I'm not sure I"ve read anything you've said in this thread. Sorry I missed it DC.. Must have been outstanding...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Actually that was my first post in the thread, I just felt left out of the complaining. 
yebat' Putin
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Actually that was my first post in the thread, I just felt left out of the complaining.
Good job
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Look, if you wanna try and tell me that he's the same player he was 4 years ago, then I have some swamp land in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
So, you broke down tapes of Vickers' games the last 4 years? You make crap up all the time. For example, I loved the one where you called out another poster and said that you don't recall Weeden getting passes batted down when he was in the gun. You pulled that out your behind. The aforementioned poster then showed you several examples and you didn't even say thanks or apologize.
Your schtick is very obvious and old. You make whacked statements and when someone disagrees, you throw a hissy fit.
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I say if he passes a physical bring him in. Just have a good injury clause in the contract.
Joe Thomas #73
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I would like to bring him back, but I seriously doubt the FO will. That doesn't mean he has lost his blocking ability, I just think we will go in another direction.
Cool sig, btw.
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[quote
Cool sig, btw.
There were no drugs involved.
Joe Thomas #73
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Tim Couch is availible too....Just saying..
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Look, if you wanna try and tell me that he's the same player he was 4 years ago, then I have some swamp land in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
So, you broke down tapes of Vickers' games the last 4 years? You make crap up all the time. For example, I loved the one where you called out another poster and said that you don't recall Weeden getting passes batted down when he was in the gun. You pulled that out your behind. The aforementioned poster then showed you several examples and you didn't even say thanks or apologize.
Your schtick is very obvious and old. You make whacked statements and when someone disagrees, you throw a hissy fit.
I think I'll quote you.. Go Away
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
I say if he passes a physical bring him in. Just have a good injury clause in the contract.
In this case, Vickers' case, he falls into Joe Banner's "30 and out rule"...
Here is an excerpt from a 2010 Philly story talking about Banner's history concerning the issue of signing players 30 or more ears old....
Quote:
Not knowing what he’s doing — that would be one of the kinder critiques of Joe Banner in Philadelphia. Generally, opinions, on sports-talk radio especially, get a little personal: that he’s a smug, cold bottom-line guy quite willing to jettison popular players once they approach the ripe old age of 30. Troy Vincent. Hugh Douglas. Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.
The perception is he’s a guy who doesn’t really care about winning. Not enough, anyway. Not like we do. Though he’s very good at lining Jeff Lurie’s pockets with ever-increasing amounts of our cash. (Forbes says Lurie’s team is now worth a cool billion.)
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Being fired in 2012 did nothing to change Banner even though he said he realized the need to change. Even though Banner had never been in charge of the football side of a franchise, Jimmy Haslam hired Banner to run the football side of the Browns.
I look at the Phil Dawson situation and realize Phil fell into the same category as the Eagle players mentioned above (Troy Vincent. Hugh Douglas. Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.)
Banner's record speaks for itself...he has little use for team veterans in their 30s, who's contracts are up...Banner would rather spend freely on another team's free agent than spend the money to sign his team's free agents.
I do believe MONEY is what drives Banner as he puts money ahead of winning and he will never change. Veteran leadership has no value to Banner...just another indicator of his lack of football IQ. Had Ozzie Newsome used Banner's 30 and out rule...the Ravens would never have won the Super Bowl.
I would be shocked if Vickers were signed by this front office.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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