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Phil Dawson's possible replacement, Shayne Graham, is 35yo and will be 36yo this season. So, that doesn't really fit the narrative you are trying to build.
Phil's departure lends itself to those who speculate that he either wanted a long-term deal or wanted to go chase a ring.
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They signed Jason Campbell (31) and Shayne Graham (35) this offseason.
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Um... what? Ask Cribbs who the better blocker on kick returns was. It's Vickers by a country mile.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Vickers, and Cribbs, best years are in the rear view mirror. Today, not so much.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Um... what? Ask Cribbs who the better blocker on kick returns was. It's Vickers by a country mile.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Vickers, and Cribbs, best years are in the rear view mirror. Today, not so much.
Careful, someone will ask you to prove it 
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. 
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Phil Dawson's possible replacement, Shayne Graham, is 35yo and will be 36yo this season. So, that doesn't really fit the narrative you are trying to build.
Phil's departure lends itself to those who speculate that he either wanted a long-term deal or wanted to go chase a ring.
As I pointed out, Banner's history shows he is not willing to spend to sign his own players over 30, whose contracts are up...it doesn't matter how good the player is either...
... Banner "the bean counter" has a history that cannot be explained away...cutting lose his own team's veterans, but willing to spend to sign someone else's free agent junk in an effort to fill the void...
It didn't make any sense in Philly and the first thing Haslam did was allow Banner to continue his crazy tactics here in Cleveland, starting with Phil Dawson. I thought Haslam really tipped his hand, concerning his football IQ when he went along with Banner's plan to kick Dawson to the curb.
I have no idea what Haslam and Banner thought they were accomplishing by handling the Phil Dawson situation the way they did. Dawson did nothing to deserve the treatment he got from the Haslam/Banner lead Browns.
Just what message was Haslam trying to send...just what was the message?
....the Browns are going to cheapskates from now on?
...the Browns don't give a damn how good you are...we won't spend the money to keep you around if you are over 30?
...money/profit is more important than winning.
...I THINK THAT IS IT...Haslam and Banner put MONEY ahead of winning
The Phil Dawson situation falls right smack in the middle of Banner crazy standards and shows just how nuts that thinking is.
You want to point out that Graham is over 30 to prove that Banner is not following the same standard for signing free agents, like he did in Philly...
...my take, Jimmy and Joe realized they screwed up by not signing Dawson and scrambled to try to find a replacement...didn't matter if the kicker was just two years younger than Dawson the dynamic duo knew they had to locate a kicker.
Also, I pointed out that Banner has no problem spending on someone else's junk....I mean free agents, such as Graham...but spend on his own team's free agents over 30...no way will Banner do that.
Banner does not understand the football side and doesn't have a clue about the locker room environment and how his actions and ways can have a venomous effect upon the team. It happened in Philly and helped to destroy their team...I don't want to see that happen to "my Browns".
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Phil Dawson's possible replacement, Shayne Graham, is 35yo and will be 36yo this season. So, that doesn't really fit the narrative you are trying to build.
Phil's departure lends itself to those who speculate that he either wanted a long-term deal or wanted to go chase a ring.
As I pointed out, Banner's history shows he is not willing to spend to sign his own players over 30, whose contracts are up...it doesn't matter how good the player is either...
... Banner "the bean counter" has a history that cannot be explained away...cutting lose his own team's veterans, but willing to spend to sign someone else's free agent junk in an effort to fill the void...
It didn't make any sense in Philly and the first thing Haslam did was allow Banner to continue his crazy tactics here in Cleveland, starting with Phil Dawson. I thought Haslam really tipped his hand, concerning his football IQ when he went along with Banner's plan to kick Dawson to the curb.
I have no idea what Haslam and Banner thought they were accomplishing by handling the Phil Dawson situation the way they did. Dawson did nothing to deserve the treatment he got from the Haslam/Banner lead Browns.
Just what message was Haslam trying to send...just what was the message?
....the Browns are going to cheapskates from now on?
...the Browns don't give a damn how good you are...we won't spend the money to keep you around if you are over 30?
...money/profit is more important than winning.
...I THINK THAT IS IT...Haslam and Banner put MONEY ahead of winning
The Phil Dawson situation falls right smack in the middle of Banner crazy standards and shows just how nuts that thinking is.
You want to point out that Graham is over 30 to prove that Banner is not following the same standard for siÝning free agents, like he did in Philly...
...my take, Jimmy and Joe realized they screwed up by not signing Dawson and scrambled to try to find a replacement...didn't matter if the kicker was just two years younger than Dawson the dynamic duo knew they had to locate a kicker.
Also, I pointed out that Banner has no problem spending on someone else's junk....I mean free agents, such as Graham...but spend on his own team's free agents over 30...no way will Banner do that.
Banner does not understand the football side and doesn't have a clue about the locker room environment and how his actions and ways can have a venomous effect upon the team. It happened in hilly and helped to destroy their team...I don't want to see that happen to "my Browns".
Cleveland Browns kicker Phil Dawson accepts franchise tag, source said
Browns General Manager Tom Heckert said last week that Dawson may have been unhappy about being tagged for the second straight year. His "ultimate goal'' was to sign Dawson to a multi-year deal.
Dawson has declined to comment.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_browns_kicker_phil_d_3.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I love how quickly the '30 and out' rule theory fell completely apart.
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I wouldn't do a straight swap of Marecic for Vickers. Owen is a good special teams player, and I'd rather see Obi block for Richardson. You can also pass to Obi, Vickers - not so much.
Um... what? Ask Cribbs who the better blocker on kick returns was. It's Vickers by a country mile.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Vickers, and Cribbs, best years are in the rear view mirror. Today, not so much.
And Owen's best years are where? In a Magic 8 Ball?
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mac...everyone gets better. Everyone learns from their history. Coaches, GM's if they get a 2nd chance. Belicheck, Lombardi...
From all I have read its not Banner Banner Banner - Lombardi has input and so does Chud. Through Chud I'm sure are all the other coaches involved including Norv n Horton.
I think if we are a playoff team n don't have a reliable kicker on our payroll it could be a decision that bites us in the butt. Until then its more about loyalty n things about the fan's emotions for. Dawson has been the only constant n bright spot for us fans. So it hurts a bit to see him go. In that way yes, Banner could be a little cold.
I'm trying to think of any 2nd contracts coming up that will apply...we got such a young team.
Mack is 27 n will be 28 when his contract runs out...curious if we give him a 3 or 5 year contract the later would dispell the theory to some extent.
Only Weeden n DQ are 29 both probably need to be resigned in a couple of years. Lets say Weeden turns out to be a Franchise QB...I think we will sign him unless we know we have a drafted QB ready to make the grade???
DQ if he makes a couple of Pro Bowls that will be interesting what we will do their.
All the rest are marginal players that are up their in age.
So I don't really see what the huff n bother is about. It really isn't that relevant with our upcoming roster.
He said he would only make one or two impact FA signings. He said no band aids. He was pretty much true to his word in that regard...said he'd like to make a couple of more impact signings next year also. Good young players...I like that.
The over 30 example in Philly...3 out of 4 if I recalled from that quote were good NO SIGNS...of course the only one that was followed on was Dawkins as the one that they should have kept.
But in cap Room stuff those are 3 big contracts he saved on that more than made sense or else the author would have reamed Banner for it.
Maybe this 2nd time around with the input of Lombardi n Chud that Dawkins move will be eliminated and it will be 3 of 3.
You know have the Variable of FOOTBALL via Lombardi n Chud brought into the statistical equation that you say was lacking in Philly.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Not trying to split hairs here Tab, but no matter how one presents it to the press and to the fans, the ultimate decision is that of Banners.
I mean do you honestly believe that in Philly Banner didn't have input from others? I mean what exactly does "input" mean here? I take that to mean that others share their views and opinions on trades, cuts, the values of the current players etc.....
That's something I do believe that goes on within every NFL team and isn't anything out of the ordinary. But the bottom line is that Haslam made it clear that Banner is running the football operations. As with all teams, someone has the final say.
Now I'm not predicting doom and gloom here. I have no way of knowing how things will be dealt with moving forward in regards to the final decisions Banner makes. But I do believe people are overvaluing this term "input" by others as I'm quite sure this is a common theme across the NFL.
I'm also one that realizes that the past regime had two years to finalize a long term deal with Dawson and failed to do so. So IMO, anyone simply trying to lay the blame on the new regime? That's not quite fair.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Can someone give me the cliffs version of how this could possibly be a 3 page thread?
He's 30, a 4th round (?) fullback. Dude had a solid career.
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Can someone give me the cliffs version of how this could possibly be a 3 page thread?
He's 30, a 4th round (?) fullback. Dude had a solid career.
offseason
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Can someone give me the cliffs version of how this could possibly be a 3 page thread?
He's 30, a 4th round (?) fullback. Dude had a solid career.
Marecic
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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ding ding ding... 
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...Haslam and Banner put MONEY ahead of winning.
mac: I frequently am in agreement with your posts, but I just can't buy into that statement. Haslam particularly has shown his passion for our team, while Banner needs to win quickly for his reputation...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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...Haslam and Banner put MONEY ahead of winning.
mac: I frequently am in agreement with your posts, but I just can't buy into that statement. Haslam particularly has shown his passion for our team, while Banner needs to win quickly for his reputation...
i don't agree with much of that post from mac, but that is actually one line that has some validity.
we have $30mil in cap space. now, we may very well re-up our youngsters to eat that space up. but, I haven't heard anything about negotiations going on with them (in particular Mack). if they fail to re-up your young corps while also sitting on all that cap room with obvious holes in the roster, then I will not be happy.
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I love how quickly the '30 and out' rule theory fell completely apart.
I love how Brian Dawkins was a prime example for the Philly media as to banner's poor decision making when it came to vets... Ad yet, after signing a 5 year deal Dawkins I believe was injuried most of his two years in Denver and retired with three years left on his initial deal...
I'm not a hug fn of banner - but so fr I think he's done a better job than I was expecting.
Back on topic - I did love what vickers did in terms of locking but I don't like his hands in Tim's of catching and don't see him coming back here at all
<><
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J/C
We have a bunch of young players that we really don't know a whole lot about.
Does it make more sense to find out about them ..... or to go sign an older player to big money?
I would rather find out what we have on this roster first. We went out and filled certain important positions on the team, like pass rusher, through free agency. We spent money there. We beefed up the DL with Bryant. We added a veteran to the WR corps with the Bess trade. Man, we added a lot to this team, and like any 5-11 type team, we have a ton of question marks about much of the rest. We bulked up in certain vital positions, and are going to use this year to evaluate many others. That makes perfect sense to me. (as opposed to just throwing money at veterans that the front office and/or coaches may not feel are as good, or as good a fit, as the guys we already have. Plus, it's entirely possible that the team may have reached out to certain players, like a "name" CB, and been rejected. Who knows fr sure?
As far as the 30 thing ..... history within our own division shows that teams often make mistakes with older players coming off huge years. Look at how many older players the Steelers have allowed to walk, only to watch them seemingly disintegrate on the field elsewhere. Even the talking heads on TV acknowledge that it's more of a risk signing guys who are on the downside of their career, and how the bottom can often fall out at around 30 years old. It's not a hard and fast rule, but something to consider when looking at players. If a guy is a 9 year veteran at 30-31 years old, and has had to take most practices off during the prior year because of injury, and if that same guy is still currently injured, (Like a Josh Cribbs, for example) then does it make sense to throw a lot of money at him when you have younger players with the potential to replace and exceed what you get from him? Not to me it doesn't.
There are,obviously, guys at the other end of the spectrum ..... but it's easier to make a huge mistake with giving a big money deal to a guy on the wrong side of 30. With a salary cap, and guaranteed money, it can be highly dangerous giving big, guaranteed money to a guy who may not, physically, be able to play out his contract.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How is that people aren't ripping apart mac's post. Un-freaking-real. He uses BS sources. Jumps to conclusions. Talks out his butt, and no one says peep. Yet, if someone says to give the new guys a chance and that the past regime had a poor record and the roster is still lacking, you guys jump down their throats and cry agenda!  mac says that Banner's record speaks for itself. Well, Philly's record over the course of Banner's time there was pretty darn good. A heckuva lot better than H and H's. But, not a peep from the critique crowd. He cites stupid examples of letting guys go, like Vincent and Dawkins. Both were shells of their former selves and are now retired. Not a peep from you guys. But yeah man...............I am the one w/an agenda.
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You assume people read mc's posts  J/k
<><
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How is that people aren't ripping apart mac's post.
Most of us just laugh anymore. He's been posting like that for years. He'll demand that you answer questions, but won't answer any himself. It's really gotten old over time.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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You assume people read mc's posts
J/k
I hate to say it, but I stopped reading his posts a long time ago.
Every so often I'll slip ..... but usually I try to just skip them completely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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we've ripped his agenda driven posts on many other threads.
he's posting the exact same thing again though. it gets old to type the same exact responses.
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Okay. I get it and that makes sense. I was aggravated last night and shouldn't have said anything. My apologies.
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You assume people read mc's posts
J/k
This.
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we've ripped his agenda driven posts on many other threads.
he's posting the exact same thing again though. it gets old to type the same exact responses.
nolo....My agenda?....
You think you know what my agenda is?
I want the only NFL team I have supported in the last 51 years to win a Super Bowl...that is my "agenda".
I just happen to have enough evidence about Banner's history to know that his deeply flawed personality has not changed and he is once again, making roster moves that help to destroy the Browns chances of winning...just like he did in Philly.
nolo...you tell me, do kickers have any value in the NFL?
One NFL team that is not being questioned about it's commitment toward winning a Super Bowl, signed the best kicker they could find...
....the Browns signed a "retread" kicker, opting not to spend the necessary dollars to sign one of the very best kickers in the NFL.
nolo....how bout you tell me what Banner's agenda is?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Philadelphia Eagles: Time to Say Goodbye to Joe Banner BY...Ron Pasceri (Correspondent) on June 11, 2012 The news came bright and early Thursday morning that Joe Banner's time with the Philadelphia Eagles had come to an end. I saw the news from Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer via twitter about 90 seconds after I opened my eyes that day. On a normal day I may have sprinted to my computer to write my thoughts about it, but I was covering the French Open at the time and didn't really have the time to devote to it that I would have liked. As the day went on and story after story poured in on Banner, I planned on reading them. The funny thing is I never did. I had to drive somewhere and even turned off sports talk radio. I heard from friends and family and headlines that former players were voicing their negative opinions of Banner. I knew there was probably mostly joy among Eagles fans and scorn from the staunch defenders of the Eagles organization on local message boards. I knew this was the story that everyone was talking about. I tried to figure out why I wasn't getting a piece of the action when I realized that after all this time I really didn't care. This time last year I would have been happy. Two or three years ago and I would have been ecstatic. But on Thursday it just didn't matter to me. Back in December and January, I was sending a lot of negative energy toward the Eagles front office. I thought they mismanaged their roster after the lockout. I felt that they had proven to be incapable of filling holes on defense through the draft. I said it was time for a change of philosophy as soon as possible. What followed in the coming months was a departure from what I grew accustomed to. There was no haggling over contracts. There were no beloved Eagles unceremoniously sent packing over a few dollars or being on the wrong side of 30. The draft came and went with almost no complaint from the fanbase. Deserving players received contract extensions and the two pieces of bad energy they had left in the form of Vince Young and Asante Samuel were shown the door. I wrote about the possibility of a more friendly version of the Eagles a couple months ago and here it was coming to fruition. I know most of this has centered on things not involving Joe Banner, but think about everything that happened this offseason. Now think of who wasn't visibly involved in any of it. Joe Banner. Is it a coincidence that the most harmonious, least contentious few months in recent Eagles memory lined up perfectly with the lowest profile Joe Banner has ever kept? I don't think so. Exactly a decade ago, the Eagles were gearing up after losing to the St. Louis Rams in the NFC Championship game. Fans were full of optimism. Donovan McNabb was a budding star. The defense was led by elite playmakers in Brian Dawkins, Hugh Douglas and Jeremiah Trotter. Life was good and the team was built to win now and in the future. In the midst of that happiness was the start of a trend with Joe Banner and his iron fist. His hardball, bargain-basement style cost the team players such as Trotter, Duce Staley, Ike Reese, Carlos Emmons and ultimately Dawkins among many others. Sometimes they made the right decisions with letting players go but ultimately, especially on defense, they never filled those holes. They lacked leadership and really were never an elite team after the 2004 season ended. Maybe Joe Banner's smug, condescending demeanor was the last thing to be eliminated. Everything feels positive around this team for the first time in eight years. Now before I get labeled nothing but a Banner hater, I have to give him his credit. He helped to build the organization into the success it is today. He helped get Lincoln Financial Field built. He was one of the first people in the NFL to figure out how to succeed with the salary cap. He had some really good qualities and he made his share of positive contributions to the Philadelphia Eagles. What he lacked was a personal touch and he was completely miscast as the face of the franchise for the past decade. Am I glad Joe Banner is gone? Not necessarily. Am I sad that he's gone? No I'm not. Joe Banner served his purpose and he has been so close to invisible that you could have forgotten he was even here anyway. Despite all the positive things he did for the organization and in spite of all the resentment I've had toward him over the years, there is one thing we may all be thanking him for in years to come. I can't believe I'm even thinking of saying this but I'm talking about Howie Roseman. He was Banner's guy. Banner groomed him. I felt for two years that Roseman was part of a problem that would never be solved. I'm now ready to admit that I may have judged him prematurely. The training wheels are off now and if this offseason is any indication, Roseman knows how to handle the business end of things without pushing ill will into the locker room and onto the field. Only time will tell and it is still way to early in his career to know for sure what Roseman is or will be. All I can say is that I have a positive view of him, his public persona and the way he handled a really big offseason. My view of Joe Banner will never change. He rubbed almost everyone in Philadelphia the wrong way and that will always be the way he's remembered. That being said, if Howie Roseman can build a Super Bowl champion, maybe, just maybe, that will be his legacy. Goodbye Joe. Thanks for helping to lead us out of the dark days of the late 1990s. I won't miss you but I'm not dancing on your grave either. You served your purpose and I wish you luck on helping another football city in need. web page When Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner had their first opportunity to show that "winning" was their #1 priority in Cleveland...they failed miserably.
When Joe Banner had his first opportunity to show that he finally got "IT"...
....that he understood "WHY" he had been fired in Philly...
...that his "MONEY FIRST", iron fisted negotiating style helped to destroy the Eagles locker room...
...BANNER FAILED MISERABLY !
One story written "Banner acknowledged that he sometimes pushed too hard in negotiations and that some of his tactics made it seem he didn't value cherished players, citing the departure of safety Brian Dawkins as an example."... http://articles.philly.com/2012-06-08/ne...agles-president
...and Jimmy Haslam was the enabler ..going along with the Phil Dawson fiasco, proving that he too, is a "MONEY FIRST" guy!
Haslam and Banner thought it would be cool to screw over Phil Dawson, refusing to even try negotiating a contract with him...and the team lost the best kicker in the AFC as a result. Teams who kick their best players to the curb, do not win a Super Bowl...just look at the Eagles under Banner.
Concerning the stories that surface months after the event... there are a number of sports writers who are willing to write anything if they believe it will give them access in the future...I'm talking about planted stories. Banner is also a master at manipulating the media in an effort to clean up his image and negatives.
If Dawson was looking to leave the Browns and unwilling to work out a deal with Joe Banner...all the had to do was tell the truth AT THAT TIME...when Dawson left. A simple comment that the Browns attempted to work out a deal with Dawson but the two sides could not get together...was all that was needed.
Instead, both Haslam and Banner "refused" to discuss the Phil Dawson situation with the media...ignoring questions, refusing to answer...a rather damning when all they had to do was tell the truth.
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nolo....My agenda?....
You think you know what my agenda is?
I want the only NFL team I have supported in the last 51 years to win a Super Bowl...that is my "agenda".
I just happen to have enough evidence about Banner's history to know that his deeply flawed personality has not changed and he is once again, making roster moves that help to destroy the Browns chances of winning...just like he did in Philly.
*Ok Vers, you win*
hey, we all want the Browns to win the Superbowl. But, I'll sign up for a decade+ of being a true Superbowl contender like the Eagles were with Banner (and no, not nearly as simple as that. he doesn't get all that credit, nor does Reid or McNabb. A combination of all of them do).
but, yes, your agenda. your constant character assassinations of Banner. not to mention pointing out only the bad moves he made in Philly. referring to a 30+ rule, then changing your stance on that rule anytime people refer to where he didn't follow it. refusing to acknowledge that the rule does have some merit (as long as each case is taken separately and exceptions are granted).
and posting articles from directly after he left. it was noted at the time that he wanted a new challenge that he was seeking in a reclamation project. and the timelines line up perfectly to think that Haslam had approached him at that point. there is a decent chance that he left as he and Lurie stated.
oh, and those articles don't happen to mention what has happened to the Eagles since he left (2 straight years of failure and Andy Reid and most of the FO being shown the door).
----------------------------------------------
look, I've already noted that I am not happy that we are sitting on $30mil in cap space, that we didn't find a way to sign Phil (unless he truly wanted to just chase a ring for a couple years), and that we have yet to re-up any of our young corps players with all that cap space we are sitting on (and not improving CB2, FS, OG, ILB, TE, etc.).
however, I am also willing to discuss the things that I have liked. the positives of building the defensive front as a pressure-group, how they haven't just come in and blown up the corps (some new FO would), and how he supplemented some groups really well (Bess + Nelson at WR are great depth guys....like the depth he provided at CB - just worried about starter), not to mention I love the coaching staff he hired (Norv + Horton as co-ordinators especially).
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A[n]d yet, after signing a 5 year deal Dawkins I believe was injuried most of his two years in Denver and retired with three years left on his initial deal...
I'm not a hug[e] f[a]n of banner - but so f[a]r I think he's done a better job than I was expecting.
It's too easy for us fans to develop a love for "fan favorites" and not see the decline in a guy who's done great things for the team previously. Banner seems to have no such unconditional love for a player and his actions are more for the good of the team.
It's easy for us to hate on a guy who lets go of our "favorite player" but in the end it's a business of winning and Philly has done a decent job of it for 10 years.
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You know, I'm not a huge Banner fan. But if you look at the list of people in Philly he didn't re-sign, how many of them went on to have great careers after they left? I believe if you actually look at the percentages there, you will see while the fans didn't like some of the moves, in the end, for the most part, they ended up being correct.
And nologo makes a very valid point. Since Banner stepped down, what has Philly done?
Don't think I don't have my concerns because I do. While I do feel the front seven is important, I'm not thrilled that our top three investments were all placed in one unit while other glaring needs were ignored.
I'm not thrilled that they didn't even tender Phil an offer either as it turns out. But still yet, I'm willing to give this a little time to see how it plays out.
I voiced my opinion when Banner and Lombardi came here. And my opinion wasn't that far from yours actually. I'm still not sure that either of us are wrong. Time will tell.
But at some point we have to sit back and watch things unfold. They are here and we have to hope for the best. I don't see how constant repeats of the same old thing serve any purpose.
I try to look at the evidence of what has been done here, not there. And when looking at what was done there, it seems Philly was better when Banner was running things than they are now. Do you dispute that?
So I'm going to sit back and let things unfold. I don't see how berating this FO is productive and feel it would be pre-mature to do so.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Honestly Mac, it's one media guys opinion. and as Pit mentions, few of the guys they let get away went on to achieve greatness elsewhere. One could look at that and say, it was smart to release players that were or had reached the max they had to offer the team. I think that could be argued.
Anyway, with the exception of the CB position here, It feels like they did a pretty good job so far filling holes. didn't like Dawson leaving, didn't like Cribbs leaving although that one, I kinda understand a little. don't like what they have in place of Dawson, but we could be ok with our replacements for Cribbs. We'll see.
Energy,,, it takes a lot of energy to worry about what happened in Philly. If that were the only thing to look at, they Bill Belichick should never have received another HC job after Cleveland. (although, if you look at it, they might have been on the right track just before Art Modell messed it up)
I guess for me it's a wait and see kinda thing.
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I just happen to have enough evidence about Banner's history to know that his deeply flawed personality has not changed and he is once again, making roster moves that help to destroy the Browns chances of winning...just like he did in Philly.
Deeply flawed personality.
Poor guy is losing his mind. Over a football GM.
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I'm not thrilled that they didn't even tender Phil an offer either as it turns out. But still yet, I'm willing to give this a little time to see how it plays out.
If it wasn't outright stated, it was sure implied that Phil didn't want to be here. Can't blame Banner and Co. for this. My impression was that they wanted him to be here if that's what he wanted and that wasn't what he wanted.
And I can't blame Phil for that either.
I hope he kicks the winning FG in the Super Bowl this year (if the Browns aren't in it, of course).
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I would just like to know why this guy MAC. has to bring things up in another thread when we were talking about it in the 2 kicker thread. I answered the phil question in that thread and this guy that seams to be acting like a crybaby just jumped to another thread?
got to admit. I have seen a lot of this on this website. people that are not used to be argue with and when some one comes along with a dif opinion with proof to back it up they are just sissy and don't comment
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not thrilled that they didn't even tender Phil an offer either as it turns out. But still yet, I'm willing to give this a little time to see how it plays out.
If it wasn't outright stated, it was sure implied that Phil didn't want to be here. Can't blame Banner and Co. for this. My impression was that they wanted him to be here if that's what he wanted and that wasn't what he wanted.
Wasn't it the old regime who franchised him twice instead of getting a longer term deal done?
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j/c:
How did this become a Banner thread? LOL.....not a peep about Vickers on all the posts entered since I last logged on. Heck, there hasn't been a mention of our FBs or even a FB. The thread--Dallas Cowboys release Lawrence Vickers has turned into---Joe Banner, the Evil Bean Counter.
Meanwhile, mac hasn't commented on the thread regarding Heckert's embarrassing arrest. Funny how mac can find articles from years ago, but can't find one that happened last week. Sorry mac, but I would rather have a "bean counter" running my team than "the alcoholic."
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I look at the Phil Dawson situation and realize Phil fell into the same category as the Eagle players mentioned above (Troy Vincent-2003.... Hugh Douglas-2002,,,, Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.) Quote:
And nologo makes a very valid point. Since Banner stepped down, what has Philly done?
pit...Banner was fired in early 2012 and the damage to their locker room had already been done and was not about to be reversed in one season.
Andy Reid was way too passive, allowing Banner to influence and damage the Eagles' locker room with his negotiating tactics. Banner succeeded in taking away Reid's control of the 53 man roster using "lowball" negotiations tactics to get rid of players Banner did not want to keep.
Just a comment about judging the value of individual player based on the stats they produced, once Banner sent them packing.
...anyone who has been associated with "team football" knows that there are players who fit a system and produce well. These players have been molded and taught by their coaches for a number of years and gelled with their teammates, promoting esprit de corps and promoting team moral.
...take that individual player out of the system and expecting the same results on another team, in another system...it's not likely to happen. Believe it or not, there are good reasons why some coaches want to retain some players...because those players fit the "team" and they "produce" in the system.
IMO, Joe Banner has zero interest in the "team concept or team moral"... and no understanding of what it takes to develop "a team".
The facts remain...there is no doubt about the SF 49ers commitment to winning a Super Bowl, signing Phil Dawson as their kicker...BUT, the same cannot be said of the Cleveland Browns new management team. Both Banner and Haslam like to "talk" ...but talk is cheap and some people are born liars...
Actions speak a helluva lot louder than words...refusing to even try to negotiate a contract with Dawson sends the message that Haslam's #1 priority is making money, not winning a Championship...and Joe Banner has not changed a bit...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I look at the Phil Dawson situation and realize Phil fell into the same category as the Eagle players mentioned above (Troy Vincent-2003.... Hugh Douglas-2002,,,, Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.)
I look at Phil as a guy who forced the Browns to Franchise him twice because he wanted to go play for a ring. Sure he was very professional and said all the right things but actions speak louder than words. Banner was left without a reasonable Franchise tag on him.
He went to a team that lost the Superbowl. Obviously he wants a ring and went to a team that will give him that opportunity. No one is picking the Browns the win the Superbowl.
Before the Browns franchised him the first time he cleaned his locker out said goodbye's to team mates and staff and sold his house. Does that sound like a guy that was going to negotiate with the Browns to stay here? Seriously, I love Phil. I thank him for the years of service. I feel bad that he played nearly his entire career for one of the worst (if not the worst) franchises over the last 13 years. But I just don't think he wanted to stay here and I don't hate him for it. And I'm certainly not going to blame Banner for it.
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j/c:
How did this become a Banner thread? LOL.....not a peep about Vickers on all the posts entered since I last logged on. Heck, there hasn't been a mention of our FBs or even a FB. The thread--Dallas Cowboys release Lawrence Vickers has turned into---Joe Banner, the Evil Bean Counter.
Meanwhile, mac hasn't commented on the thread regarding Heckert's embarrassing arrest. Funny how mac can find articles from years ago, but can't find one that happened last week. Sorry mac, but I would rather have a "bean counter" running my team than "the alcoholic."
Do you realize how pot/kettle this statement is?
There's not really anything more to say about Vickers really. He was a far superior lead blocker to Marecic... as evidenced by making The Ghost look like an all-pro, then putting Hillis on the Madden cover the next season. The question is really "what do we need from our fullback"? If Turner wants another Lorenzo Neal, then he's be about as good a choice as is available (outside the $4 million dollar man Leach.)
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dallas Cowboys release Lawrence
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