DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Battle of Berea

Since we are beating on the RAC horse again, truthfully people, RAC shouldn't even been granted a coaching gig here. This applies to all the other rookie coaches too cause rookie coaches has only added onto the stress levels and added onto the concerns and virtually everything opposite from what this team has needed, organization and ability to be successful built upon people who HAVE A CLUE/PASSION FOR WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

So to take it a step further, Phil should have been supporting someone other than RAC, a coach with "credentials" and not another Randy Lerner mistake. Just my two cents, but let's hope Chud be the first rookie coach to actually shape this team. He has a solid cast to help him in succeeding making this team a contender. RAC probably won't see another coaching gig for the rest of his career, two failed attempts I can't see why ya'll are even discussing it. I do believe Phil supported RAC though and cared for his requirements. Either or, it got him nowhere and got us nowhere...

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if anything he tried too hard to accommodate RAC and didn't go for the best talent.

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Or didn't know which one was the best talent so had them ranked equally.

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Since we are beating on the RAC horse again, truthfully people, RAC shouldn't even been granted a coaching gig here.

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Sam Rutigliano once said, "You've never seen a jockey carry the horse over the finish line."

Meaning, when RAC had a talented roster he did alright. We all loved the winning and the Browns became a National media darling. Then the next season, when so many players became injured and we ended the season using our 4th QB it all went to hell and RAC took all the blame for the losses.

I'ts often said that injuries are no excuse. Well, that may be true for a team full of talented starters and talented backups like the Packers in their last Superbowl win when they had something like 12 or 13 starters go down but won the Superbowl on the quality of their backups.

But the Browns had just reached the point where they had a good handful of quality starters but nothing behind them as quality backups. When starters were injured there was nothing left to win with.

Injuries are no excuse for an organization who collectively is responsible for quality players. But the lack of them cannot be wholly laid at the feet of the head coach.

I think it all went downhill, in terms of their relationship, after that.

Of course it is hindsight, but I wouldn't have taken the trade no matter what. Even if Phil rated them (Ngata and Wimbly) the same, I never subscribe to trading with a team in your division during the draft... no matter the round, no matter the draft.

I don't understand that.

I would assume you/we make a trade because we think it makes us a better team. You/we don't go in to a trade thinking it will weaken us, so to me it doesn't matter who is the trade partner.

Yup. You worry about what it does to your team, not someone else's team. Otherwise, you make stupid trades.

The relationship between Savage and RAC did indeed go downhill. Savage was bringing in players that did not fit RAC's system in the last couple of years. He also threw RAC under the bus, which disappointed many fans and angered ownership.

Trading w/in a division? I would do a trade if I thought I was getting the better deal. Not only are you strengthening your own team, but weakening another. NFL trades are not similar to baseball trades where they might trade an established pitcher to a contender for a bunch of prospects. NFL trades are rarer and not as complex.

LINK

Battles of Berea: Browns quarterback Brian Hoyer poses threat to Jason Campbell as Brandon Weeden's main backup

July 25, 2013 - 07:37 AM

Editor’s note: This is the final installment of a 12-part series in which Browns beat writer Nate Ulrich analyzes players who will vie for starting jobs or other important roles during training camp, which opens to the public today in Berea.

BATTLES OF BEREA: QUARTERBACKS

Players to watch: Jason Campbell (6-foot-5, 230 pounds, ninth year); Brian Hoyer (6-2, 215, fifth year); and Brandon Weeden (6-3, 220, second year).

2012 stats: Campbell (with Chicago Bears — six games played, including one start, 0-1 record, 32-of-51 passing, 62.7 percent, 265 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions, 72.8 passer rating, seven carries for 28 yards, six sacks, two fumbles); Hoyer (with Pittsburgh Steelers — did not play; with Arizona Cardinals — two games played, including one start, 0-1 record, 30-of-53 passing, 56.6 percent, 330 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions, 65.8 passer rating, one carry for 6 yards, four sacks, one fumble); Weeden (15 starts in 15 games, 5-10 record, 297-of-517 passing, 57.4 percent, 3,385 yards, 14 touchdowns, 17 interceptions, 72.6 passer rating, 27 carries for 111 yards, 28 sacks, six fumbles).

Analysis: The starting job is Weeden’s to lose heading into camp. He took all of the first-team reps during organized team activities and minicamps, threw fewer interceptions than he did last spring as a rookie and displayed better footwork while dropping back. He also appeared to be far more comfortable in the downfield, vertical passing game installed by new coach Rob Chudzinski and offensive coordinator Norv Turner than the West Coast offense used by ex-Browns coach Pat Shurmur. Barring injury or an epic meltdown in the preseason, Weeden will retain his starting job and receive a one-year trial under the new regime, which will need to see significant progress from him this season because he’ll turn 30 on Oct. 14.

With Weeden on track to start, the real competition is between his backups. Campbell took the majority of the reps with the second-team offense during spring practices, but Hoyer received some as well. So even though Hoyer, 27, is No. 3 on the depth chart entering camp, he’ll get a legitimate opportunity to surpass Campbell, 31. Campbell, who signed with the Browns in March, has a better arm than Hoyer. Still, Hoyer was sharp in team drills despite his late arrival. He signed with the team May 17 in the midst of OTAs.

Of course, the backup quarterback job is vital, especially in Cleveland. No Browns quarterback has played a full 16-game season since Tim Couch in 2001. Weeden came close to ending the streak last season, though he missed the finale with a sprained throwing shoulder.

Though this article tries to say it's so, I'm not buying it.

The title says so, not the article.

The article really only says that Hoyer is there and has "looked sharp" in very limited reps. The article also says that Campbell has the stronger arm.

Browns: Many vying for Cribbs' vacated return duties

By Jeff Schudel
JSchudel@News-Herald.com
@jsbrownsinsider

Joshua Cribbs must be very difficult to replace, because five players are lining up to take over as the Browns punt returner after six seasons of trusting one of the riskiest jobs in football to No. 16.

Four players are vying to replace Cribbs as the kick returner, a job Cribbs held and set records performing from 2005-2012.

The only candidate for both jobs is Travis Benjamin.

Cribbs took his head-down, rush-into-the-pile and suffer the consequences later style of football to Oakland as a free agent after the Browns chose not to re-sign him this past offseason. Meanwhile, Jordan Norwood, Mike Edwards, Benjamin, Josh Cooper and Davone Bess are auditioning as the next punt returner.

"We're going to look at and continue to work a big group of guys in the punt-return area and the kickoff-return area," Coach Rob Chudzinski said. "We'll have opportunities during the preseason to work a number of them. We will pare it down by then and get the guys that we want to get."

At this point of training camp, the candidates are simply catching the punts of T.J. Conley and Spencer Lanning. That can be tough enough as the ball flutters in the wind, knuckling end over end as it comes to earth.

The Browns open the preseason a week from Thursday, and that means the added dimension of 11 players from the Rams swooping in on the punt returner, their cleats pounding the FirstEnergy Stadium sod and trying to prove to Coach Jeff Fisher they deserve a spot on the final roster.

When Cribbs played here, he said concentrating on the ball and peeking at the same time to see the punt coverage bearing down on him was one of the most difficult jobs in the NFL. To improve catching punts in practice, he would hold a football in each arm and catch the punted ball between them. Sometimes he would face the opposite goal line and catch the punted ball behind his back.

"A lot of times you're not live out here in these punt situations, so getting in the games when they are actually catching and having to return the balls, then you have a chance to see them a little better," Chudzinski said. "It's good to have a big group because you never know from an injury standpoint. You want to make sure you have a big pool of guys to pull from, and we'll pare it as it applies to that."

Buster Skrine, Benjamin, Dion Lewis and Johnson Bademosi have been working as kick returners.

Skrine returned three kicks in 2011 for a 24.0 average. He did not return a kick last season. Benjamin returned three kicks last season for a 25.3 average.

The edge for punt returner probably belongs to Benjamin because he proved last year he can go the distance. He returned three punts in 2012 and took one back 93 yards for a touchdown. He returned another 40 yards.

"It's all about judgment, knowing if the ball is turning a certain way how you have to get up under it to catch it," Benjamin said after practice Monday. "It's all about trust. You know you have guys on the field that can block for you on special teams."

Benjamin said he will do whatever the coaches ask him, but he admitted he prefers returning punts more than returning kicks. He said he learned from Cribbs when they were together last season.

"Josh was so smooth catching the ball," Benjamin said. "He taught me what to do when the ball was coming down, about alignment and how to watch film on certain punters, so he taught me a lot."

Benjamin said catching the ball differs depending on where the game is played. He said wind is a factor in FirstEnergy Stadium, but not in Baltimore.

Lights present a challenge in other stadiums.

Benjamin's roster spot is secure. Norwood cannot say the same thing. He is trying to hold on as the sixth receiver. It would be a bonus if he can convince special teams coach Chris Tabor he should return punts.

Norwood returned four punts for 35 yards with the Browns in 2011. He did not return a punt last year.

"I love to do that," Norwood said. "If there's an opportunity for me, I'm going to do my best to take advantage of it."

There is a big size difference in comparing Cribbs with Benjamin and Norwood. Norwood is listed as 5-foot-11, 180 pounds. Benjamin is 5-foot-10, 175. Cribbs is 6-foot-1, 215 pounds.

"You try to forget about the 11 guys (on punt coverage) the best you can," Norwood said. "It takes some practice. It takes game practice mostly because there's nothing like live action."

Cribbs returned 38 punts for 457 yards last year. His 12.0 average ranked sixth in the league. He has returned three punts for touchdowns in eight years. He shares the NFL record for eight kick returns for touchdowns.

http://news-herald.com/articles/2013/07/29/sports/nh7313796.txt?viewmode=fullstory

The return game, especially the punt return game, could be a concern this year. You have to catch the ball. I am a bit surprised that Chud isn't sending guys down on punt coverage in practice. I wouldn't want actual contact and tackling, but I think you need to practice catching the ball w/guys flying at you. It's a very, very tough thing to do.

Can't believe Benjamin prefers PR to KO returns. At least you have time to catch the ball on kickoffs. You might get your head knocked off as soon--or even before--the ball gets to you on punt returns.

I agree. No contact, but get the receiver accustomed to peeking at coverage. They need to learn that a fair catch isn't always a bad thing.

He doesn't even have to gas guys by sprinting the 40 or so yards. You can stage them 15-20 yards away and release them at a moment that represents a normal coverage. Do it a little early and hope the returner signals a fair catch.

j/c...

Not many battles going on as it seems the front runners are holding their ground.
Greco LG n Lava RG seem to be a done deal.

Hoyer has been reading to be no challenge to any QB depth...he might even be playing himself off the roster...still lots of football to go round.

Gipson seems to have the FS position although he did have a hamstring???

2nd CB seems to still be a battle. Owen, Skrine n McFadden. I was surprised to see err "READ" the progress Skrine has made.

Return duties are wide open. I always liked RBs to return kickoffs. There is a lot of running room and you need those good burst of speed when things open up and they read blocks well. I would Love to see Lewis or Ogb running kicks back. Punts. Need that water bug type. Benjamin, Norwood and we can see a UDFA step up n earn a position. You have to be fearless in special teams.

FB we did bring a FB into camp recently to compete with Marecic or is that just so that we can run I formation with different QBs in camp???

QB...the coaches talk of a competition still open but what we see is Weeden with the Starters and doing quite well.

Defense Robertson looks to have impressed at that ILB opposite of DQ. Sheard is locking in the OLB starting position. The DL is getting pretty much all set in their depth chart. Haven't read too much on Winn which I thought had a shot at starting?

Kicker n Punter seem to be wide open. Hope Graham gets cut. He lost strength in his leg.

JMHO from all that I have read.

It's hard to assign victors after less than a week in camp. There might be frontrunners, but I want to see who starts pre-season games before formally giving them the job.

Gipson seems to have the upper hand at S, for example, because he's really the only guy with experience there right now. The other competitors are Bademosi, (still learning the position) Richardson, (another really young player) and Slaughter. (hammy)

Would I be surprised if Gipson opens the season at FS? Nope. Would I be surprised if someone else outplays and passes him on the depth chart? Nope. It's still way too early to know what will happen for sure.

While Gipson has been out with the shoulder, Bademosi appears to be one of the camp stars. He is putting a claim to FS from everything I have heard.

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highly intelligent staff who agree with me.

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I didn't know those two things could exist simultaneously...

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I was really stunned that with his size and speed, that he went undrafted. He is 6'1" and 205 or so ..... and he ran a ridiculous 4.35 40 at the local pro day he participated in. He seemed like a decent late round risk, especially given his reportedly impeccable character .... and that speed of his.

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YT...according to what I have been to find, at Pro Day, Bademosi's 40 time was in a range of 4.39 - 4.52. That said, he may have participated in more than one Pro Day so he very well could have run 4.35.
Bademosi other Pro Day stats:
...benched 225lbs=16 reps
...vertical jump=40"
...broad jump=10' 5"
...10yd dash=1.58
...20yd dash=2.60
...3 cone drill=6.96
...20yd shuttle=4.10

Bademosi looks to be blessed with the physical talent to play CB and/or Safety...now it's up to the coaching staff to develop that raw talent.

I still think Gipson will start.

That's the way I remember it.

Pretty much how I recall it as' well. I don't think Wimberly was coached effectively here. One pass rush move negated all the physical talents he had. When he went to Oakland and cashed in on like 7 sacks, bunch of qb knockdowns and like 10 hurries I believe? Why Oakland cut him after one season is beyond me.

Haven't really heard his name since...

Wimbley is a starter for Tennessee.

Ngata was kind of lazy at Oregon. We really didn't have the defensive leadership that the Ravens had in place when Ngata joined the team. we really don't know if he would have been the same player on our squad that he has been for Baltimore.

What I do know is that we never should have drafted a NT (Oshinowo) that Notre Dame effectively scheme-blocked with a FB.

He had a cool name though, Babatunde. LOL