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Horton on D Quote:
“I keep saying there’s a learning curve, a transition period, to get accustomed to what we’re doing, how I call a game, how they best react to a game, what they do best,” Horton said Tuesday at the Browns’ headquarters. “We’re going to use this period, I think, to see, ‘OK, we can do an unlimited amount of stuff. I can move guys all around.’ Or, ‘This guy is suited best for that.’
“The players like it. I like it. What I’m hoping is the opponents don’t like it. It’s a great time for us in training camp to experiment with a couple things, moving guys, position flexibility, scheme flexibility. Can this work? Will this work? It’s a learning process for me as well as them.”
As Horton discussed the defensive outlook for the Browns, he shared his thoughts about each position, identifying what he knows about his new players and what he hopes to discover about them during camp.
Linebackers
Horton shot down the notion that he’ll ask rookie Barkevious Mingo, the sixth overall pick in this year’s draft, to gain weight as he switches from a defensive end at Louisiana State University to an outside linebacker in the NFL. The 6-foot-4 Mingo has consistently weighed about 237 pounds since the Browns drafted him.
“How fast is he? Can he drop? Can he catch?” Horton said. “I want an athletic player that can get after the quarterback. I’m not going to say a thing to him about his weight. I’m going to say, ‘Get off the ball,’ meaning, ‘Go get the quarterback. Go back, cover this guy.’ I’m not going to say a thing to him about his weight. I want a football player. Now whether he plays 235, 241, 239, I guarantee he’s going to lose weight [during camp] with all this heat.”
Horton has been pleased with Mingo’s progress, but he enters camp behind Jabaal Sheard on the depth chart. Sheard’s switch from a 4-3 defensive end to an outside linebacker has received rave reviews from the coaching staff. He’s penciled in to start opposite Paul Kruger, the Browns’ top free-agent acquisition this offseason.
“Fantastic,” Horton said of Sheard. “He was one of the surprises of OTAs and minicamp for me. He transitioned from left to right and now we’re playing him on both sides and everybody’s worried about, ‘Can he stand up? Can he do this? Can he do that?’
“I think when you have good athletes they can do a lot. He’s really done a good job of absorbing the defense and playing both sides. He’s really going to be a versatile player where I can use him to move him around and use his skill to the best of his ability.”
Craig Robertson has also impressed in the early stages as the first-team inside linebacker next to D’Qwell Jackson.
“Pleasant surprise,” Horton said. “I wouldn’t say a surprise. I would say he was what I had envisioned and hoped he would be -- a young, athletic backer, who is savvy. When I came here, I wasn’t sure how he would be on picking things up, but he’s been everything I wanted. That’s my little ace in the hole I hope, and we’ll find out.”
That's just an excerpt, I urge you to watch the video. Very interesting Q and A with our new defensive coordinator. The more I see of this guy the more I like him. He is CONFIDENT in his system. I was surprised that he put such an emphasis on statistics. He is another stat guy, big time.
I really liked this quote: "Horton shot down the notion that he’ll ask rookie Barkevious Mingo, the sixth overall pick in this year’s draft, to gain weight as he switches from a defensive end at Louisiana State University to an outside linebacker in the NFL. The 6-foot-4 Mingo has consistently weighed about 237 pounds since the Browns drafted him. “How fast is he? Can he drop? Can he catch?” Horton said. “I want an athletic player that can get after the quarterback. I’m not going to say a thing to him about his weight. I’m going to say, ‘Get off the ball,’ meaning, ‘Go get the quarterback. Go back, cover this guy.’ I’m not going to say a thing to him about his weight. I want a football player. Now whether he plays 235, 241, 239, I guarantee he’s going to lose weight [during camp] with all this heat.”
He wants a linebacker. Not some over weight oaf that can only play up on the line as a pseudo DE. I LIKE that. Greatest OLB of all time(LT) played at just around 240. Harrison played at 240 for the Steelers. It's not a requirement to be 260+ at OLB. Now the kid just has to gets his but to work. We need a bunch of sacks and perhaps a pick or two from Mr. Mingo!
Getting this thing up and running is going to take a supreme effort. But it's not impossible. All the cards have to fall just right.... But it is possible by years end for this to be a good D. We have a lot of young players....
I have a feeling Horton will be a head coach in the next two years. I can see why he got interviewed a lot this year. He was funny and personable.
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A whole lot of folks have been harping on players size in Horton's scheme and when you look down the list of linebackers, size doesn't mean anything to Horton. I think Horton has a vision of what he wants and that is speed, speed and umm lets see, more SPEED!!!!
There is some freakish speed at linebacker. Tank Carder man finally have found a coach that will love him.
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Quote:
Craig Robertson has also impressed in the early stages as the first-team inside linebacker next to D’Qwell Jackson.
he’s been everything I wanted. That’s my little ace in the hole I hope, and we’ll find out.”
nuff said. Robertson will be in the pro bowl in a year or two if he keeps playing like he did last year esp if we start winning
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
Quote:
Craig Robertson has also impressed in the early stages as the first-team inside linebacker next to D’Qwell Jackson.
he’s been everything I wanted. That’s my little ace in the hole I hope, and we’ll find out.”
nuff said. Robertson will be in the pro bowl in a year or two if he keeps playing like he did last year esp if we start winning
Man, I hope you're right. If that's the case we'd have one of the best linebacking corps in the entire NFL.
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Quote:
Quote:
Craig Robertson has also impressed in the early stages as the first-team inside linebacker next to D’Qwell Jackson.
he’s been everything I wanted. That’s my little ace in the hole I hope, and we’ll find out.”
nuff said. Robertson will be in the pro bowl in a year or two if he keeps playing like he did last year esp if we start winning
Man, I hope so. We shall see. There's a vast difference between playing Will in a 4-3 and playing inside in a 3-4. He's got to go up against Guards at times now.... Still, Horton seems to think he can do it, so time will tell. It will become obvious fairly quickly if he fits in the new scheme or not. *fingers crossed* It would be nice to have that hole filled and look at something else the next draft. I hope JMJ can find a spot as well. Lots of questions in this camp....
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We'll see how it works out, but it sounds great. Just what I have wanted to see.
My hope is if this works out that Horton is here two years and somebody on the defensive staff is being groomed as his replacement. I wouldn't want to be sittting there next year or the year after without anybody who can run the system seeing all the time and player investments made.
A quick check shows that Lou Cioffi, DB coach came over with Horton from Az. Maybe he is the guy??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
We'll see how it works out, but it sounds great. Just what I have wanted to see.
My hope is if this works out that Horton is here two years and somebody on the defensive staff is being groomed as his replacement. I wouldn't want to be sittting there next year or the year after without anybody who can run the system seeing all the time and player investments made.
A quick check shows that Lou Cioffi, DB coach came over with Horton from Az. Maybe he is the guy??
Watching the vid was just another "pump up" for me. How could a player not want to "bust their butt" for a guy like that. At the end of the vid I wanted to start chanting "Lets Go Browns" and slam my wooden stadium seat in unison.
Damn comfy plastic seats.
And yea, no doubt he'll be a Head Coach some day, and for us, continuity will be the key.
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j/c:
I like Horton, too. He was a great hire. He probably won't be here long, so we need to develop someone on staff that will keep this baby rolling.
LOL at the best set of linebackers in the NFL. Little premature for that. I still have some concerns about our inside linebackers. I think both will be fine in the passing game, but I wonder how they will hold up when teams try to run it down our throats.
Overall, I am excited to watch this defense. I think there will be some growing pains. I think we'll give up some big plays. I also think that they will be fun to watch and make big plays of their own.
A lot of how they play will depend on how our offense plays. Our offense has to improve. They gotta score some points. No more of this 30th ranked offense crap. If our offense can score early, this defense will be very, very good. They will bring pressure and it will be like an avalanche. However, if our offense continues to struggle, teams will pound at our defense w/the running game and the short, quick passing game. That will loosen them up and then they'll hit us w/a big play over the top.
I know that sounds negative. I don't mean it to be that way, though. I truly am excited about our defense, but the offense has to help!!!
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I hear this... run gap plugging and just overall run protection has been very ugly regardless of 3-4, 4-3 and whoever was calling the plays. I have my fingers crossed Horton's constant pressure doesn't make our run protection even worse than what we've already had to bear witness to.
And point made, it's two way. We'll need our offense to bail our defense out at times, and our defense to bail our offense out. Norv and Horton must compliment each other and we finally need to have a balanced team. The days of "defense wins championships" are long gone. If one struggles, the team struggles. Just like last year, how many times did the defense give the ball back to the offense, only for the offense to throw three stupid pass play calls and go 3 n out?
The fact that Shurmur isn't calling the game is already an enormous, large and fantastic step to having a better offense.
JMO
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I agree w/you on all that, but just when I get excited about Chud and Norv's offense, I look at the qb position.
Don't wanna derail this thread w/qb talk, though. So, someone bail me out and get us back on track w/our LBers, Horton leaving/staying, how we defend the run game, etc.
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Quote:
Craig Robertson has also impressed in the early stages as the first-team inside linebacker next to D’Qwell Jackson.
“Pleasant surprise,” Horton said. “I wouldn’t say a surprise. I would say he was what I had envisioned and hoped he would be -- a young, athletic backer, who is savvy. When I came here, I wasn’t sure how he would be on picking things up, but he’s been everything I wanted. That’s my little ace in the hole I hope, and we’ll find out.”
I hope he's right there. It'd be nice to have Robertson step up. He played really well at times last year and it'd be great if Horton can find a way to make that consistent.
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j/c...notes on the discussion.
Weight: Time n place for everything. I believe that was what Horton was getting at. Now is the time for Football - Maybe next Jan. - April, Horton will ask the Strength n Conditioning guy to add a few pounds.
Right now Horton is not concerned about it. He wants Mingo's 100% attention on the execution of what will be asked of him....looks like it is GET AFTER THE QB!
Sheard: Man I love it that he is looking good. I mean we will of course have to see him in real action to confirm but these coaches are pretty smart...they know when a kid is getting IT!  Nice to read.
Robertson - I did think Inside would need some size but then I don't know how much attack we will see rather than taking on blockers. The kid does have acceleration.
Getting burnt in the Past: The difference is every defense we had except for one season with Foge has been a read n react defense. So that when somebody...DL or LB went Rouge on the discipline (see Rogers) it would upset the entire scheme n make us susceptible to getting burned to a big play.
Now the attack the gap is not out of an individual who is trying to do too much but a design of the defense. So I'm not so sure on how bad it might get. As long as we have the talent and all do their job. It should be exciting!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm so glad to see your comments Spirit, I keep thinking that sooner or later will agree and we are getting closer then we have ever been, I think?
As the season approaches I have the feeling that the stars have finally aligned in our favor.
At this point my one and only true concern is Joe and Mike TBD at a later date. As of this writing I can't find fault with a single move that has been made. They have shown patience and that's a hard thing to do when your the new kid on the block. So for now I remain firmly behind both of these guys.
Some will argue that they should have done more to solidify the CB situation but they had time to assess that situation and chose to stand pat, based I assume on what they had being sufficient. They could be wrong but then again they have way more information then we do and that was what they chose to do. Be patient.
The coaching staff is day and night to the fiasco we had to stomach over the course of the past 2 seasons. Thank God that crew got kicked to the curb, aside from Heckert it was easily the worst FO we have had to date. But the real key IMO was Jr selling the team, his unsteady hand was the cause of our suffering, I'm so thankful for his departure. I don't think many understand how . poor he was at managing anything much less being the owner of a football team. Besides his true interests were clearly somewhere else. I wish him well and Thank God for his departure. It saved us, I really believe that.
Now the new staff, all of which come with actual NFL credentials. Norv is easily one of the best play callers in the game, and has been for a long long time. He see's whats happening on the field and adjusts accordingly on the spot. Of all the coaches we could have possibly landed to be our OC I can't honestly think of one better qualified then Norv. We struck Gold.
Horton, a young up and coming coach who oversaw the transformation of the Cards defense, a disciple of Dick Laboe (sp). Can you imagine a Pitt style defense here? I hate the Steelers but man you have to admire their defense, and of course Horton has added his own twist. We struck Gold again.
Chud, a local boy who grew up sitting in a snow bank watching the Browns games threw the window. He understands the team the fans, and their relationship to each other. He is a blue collar guy, in a blue collar town manning the HC position for the team he grew up loving, just like us. What's more he has one thing on his mind winning for us and for himself, restoring the Browns to their rightful place at the top of the NFL food chain. Once again we hit Gold.
The players already talk about him educating them about the Browns their storied tradition and the love affair between team and community. He talks about his cousin whom he was close to growing up, who has a modified school bus decked out in Browns regalia.
The talent is near perfect to run a 3-4 defense, its weird because before when we were running a 3-4 I thought (still do) we were better suited to run a 4-3, then we get a 4-3 scheme and the more we drafted for the 4-3 the more I saw players who I believed would be better suited for a 3-4 Sheard jumps out at me in that regard and Taylor as well.
You look at the defense as it is now comprised and if your not salivating, you may want to get your pulse checked. This unit is going to be exiting to watch, their going to get the fans on their feet and keep them their. Now I want to temper that with the knowledge that a 3-4 takes time to get fine tuned and Horton talked about that but I will come back to that in conclusion.
Of course in our doom and gloom Browns outlook on things, you know the one that says what can go wrong will go wrong the talk of the Browns always it seems turns to the QB position, and rightfully so.
So we come to the offense and Weed.
He was cast into a situation where few QB's would fair well last season he was the proverbial round peg in a square hole with NO NFL experience to speak of. He has always been a gun sling-er, dink and dunk doesn't suit his style of play, nor does it match his mindset, or skill set. For the life of me I cannot understand why Heckert drafted Weedon other then we absolutely HAD to take a QB in the last draft, even if it meant trying to hammer a round peg in a square hole. I guess I understand the why better then I allow I do...LOL
That said I have spent quite a bit of time watching our games from last year, and I specifically focused on the types of throws Weedon executed well and the ones he didn't, and what stood out to me was that the vertical pass was a strength he threw long at times but the guy is pretty accurate long and that he throws a great ball. Now throwing long doesn't equate to a high completion percentage, but it does mean big plays over the top, oddly enough that fits Chud and Norv's style to a tee.
But the best part about this staff and what it is they will do and I keep hearing it is they will adjust the style or system they play in to suit the strengths of the player. I hear it6 from Horton, I hear it from Chud, I hear it from Norv. Success in my opinion lies in finding what your players can do best then adjusting your base scheme to those skills. Chud has a track record of doing just that with every QB he has ever coached as well as Norv.
Horton to me is a bit of the unknown when it comes to that but he kept talking about finding what players did best and getting his players in position to use those skills to help the team win. It truly isn't about scheme in my opinion its about working players into your scheme in such a way that it leads to team success. Horton seemed determined to find what works and winning more so then the how that got done.
This IMO is the beginning of something special, where that goes who knows, but we sure as hell are finally on our way. We have the combination of Ownership/FO/coaching that is the requirement to success. More importantly from a coaching perspective we have guys running the team that aren't so addicted to their way that they won't adjust and evolve as the talent and the challenges change.
This IMO is the time, our time, finallllllllllllllllllllllllllllly, We are about to arrive enjoy the ride, this is going to be a blast....
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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BTTB Sweet!!! As I finally got to listen to the RH interview. He too is staying true to his word of finding big guys that can run & litle guys that can hit. This year is another feel out process that hopefully will not lead to massive changes next year. Unlike years past we really have some talent to work ( I say on both sides of the ball) with & what EO alsways says, these guys have been w/ the Browns from the beginning. Earning there living being a Cleveland Brown. I can't help get exited we are going to compete for the long haul. It suprise & exited me the way he talked about Craig Robertson, did you see that smirk when he was asked about CR? The ownership change can't be undervalued either, as pointed out by BTTB. Junior jst couldn't figure out when he had a good thing or not. Even though Jimmy H has his own issues, once behind which they will be, he will be more focused than ever to bring a winning change/attitude to this team along w/ his reputation. What better way than through sports, especially this team! I believe Richardson for instance has a big chip on his shoulder and so does Weeden. They both know they are better than their performance last year & are eager to prove. I still don't understand how TR played w broken ribs, thats just insane. He still was powering people & juking a few jock straps.  We have all been sitting back since 99 waitng for continutiy something to hold on too, it was so bad, some were upset Shumar & company were let go just for the sake of continutiy. This is a change we can believe in, wait till we are going into our third year in 2015. We think were exited now.
If I only knew then what I know today...
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Quote:
At this point my one and only true concern is Joe and Mike TBD at a later date. As of this writing I can't find fault with a single move that has been made. They have shown patience and that's a hard thing to do when your the new kid on the block. So for now I remain firmly behind both of these guys.
You should change your name back to Upbeat. LOL
I have hope w/the new FO. As you well know, I did not like the previous regime. However, there are some moves I wish they would have made.
I think we needed a corner and a FS. Golston from SF was available. He was a good player. We passed on Miliner in the draft.
I also worry about the TE and FB positions. I think you could also make an argument that we should have traded down. Mingo might be good, but we already had Kruger and Sheard.
I realize things take time and you can't fix everything in a year, but I wish we would have made a few other moves.
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Well man, I do HOPE all of that is true. But I'm still waiting to see how we play before proclaiming the "answer" has been found. Far too often we've heard that, later to find out the new boss is the same as the old boss. Still, I did like Hortons interview.... He seems an intelligent, confident man. I will miss Dick Jauron and his pressers. Extremely smart and considered individual. When asked a question, he would often stop, think about it, THEN answer. Guy was a Yale grad. However, he's gone and Horton seems to not only be a good replacement football wise, but he's a funny and open man who's pressers should be entertaining as well as informative. Now comes the time to show and prove. They have a HUGE task ahead of them, lets see how they fare. As Vers pointed out, I am worried Horton will be a head coach before we find a replacement that can call this new D. I REALLY don't want to change AGAIN in a year or two. So we do need to groom a candidate for the inevitable day when Horton gets the HC call. It's going to happen, it's just a question of when.... Vers, I hear you about our inside line-backing group. Big questions. We all hope they can thrive in this new system, and perhaps we are good to go. But DQ didn't play lights out in the last 3-4. He had trouble going up against linemen. So this scheme may put him in different positions than the last, but it is a concern. *fingers crossed* they take to this one.... I'd love to see us out "Steeler" the Squealers. That would be SWEET. Just for the record. I don't "hate" this new regime. I'm deeply concerned that our brand new owner is at the heart of a federal investigation. And I haven't seen enough to proclaim "We are saved". That doesn't equate to hate. It's called caution. This isn't my first rodeo I'm going to wait to see how this team plays first. I like Horton(more every time I hear him). I like Norv Turner(as an OC). However, I still have to see this team play before I jump on any bandwagons. That's not hate. I DO really hope this works. We can't keep changing regimes every third year. I'm not getting any younger. If they don't do it fairly soon, I might not be around to see it damn it! lol Peace
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I also worry about the TE and FB positions. I think you could also make an argument that we should have traded down. Mingo might be good, but we already had Kruger and Sheard.
I realize things take time and you can't fix everything in a year, but I wish we would have made a few other moves.
Yes, TE and FB are questions. I THINK Brad Smelly might fit pretty well at FB. If not then Obi might be alright there. Mareecic has been a disappointment. Marked down as a bad pick for Heckert. At least so far. But the new guys must think they can fit someone in or do without. They traded the 4th and 5th picks away and that's where a FB can be found....
I'm not down on the Mingo pick. As long as he develops into a very good to great OLB I'm fine with it. Looks like Horton want's to move Sheard around so having another OLB isn't a bad thing. Keep the guys fresh by moving them in and out.... I have the feeling there will be lots of times where Kruger lines up at DE and Sheard and Mingo are at linebacker. Time will tell.
I'm really excited to see how this team develops this season. I think we can be a solid team this year. Not a good or great one. But show improvement and worry some people. I believed that of the former regime, I think there is no reason the new guys can't keep that progress going. Time will tell.
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As of this writing I can't find fault with a single move that has been made.
I can But that can be said of any front office. I liked Heckert, I thought he was a good GM, but he made mistakes just like anyone. Ozzy makes mistakes. Over time we will see how this front office builds this team. For good or for bad. Right now, there's far too little data to determine their efficacy. So we all wait and hope for the desired results. Man am I getting jacked up for this season. Going to be VERY interesting.
Last edited by Spiritbro77; 07/24/13 02:11 PM.
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You should change your name back to Upbeat. LOL
Now that is rich because I was called everything but for the past 2 years..... Downtrodden dawg leading the list............LOL
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I have hope w/the new FO. As you well know, I did not like the previous regime. However, there are some moves I wish they would have made.
I won't recap my hatred of the previous. You know that story..
There always are moves to be critical of Vers to me that is the nature of the beast so to speak, but I also realize that these guys had time to analyze this roster and chose to stand pat in several key areas.
The list of reasons for that move, or lack of moves is pretty long. 1-They weren't ready to make wholesale change, 2- after taking a look they decided that there was talent but didn't know how it would fit in the new scheme, 3- create a sense of continuity in the locker room. 4- They weren't sold on what was available, or its costs.
But I like patients when it comes to youngsters with talent. I also firmly believe that had we had better coaching and scheme at least last year we win far more then 5 games. The ridged nature of the previous staffs scheme held this team back.
But in a sense there was at least some advantage to the regiment of doing the same thing over and over, regardless of the outcome. If I have reservations about some of the young guys I view as having real potential is how will they adapt to in game and game to game changes. What I'm trying to say is will actually have a game plan on Sunday. It won't be the philosophy of, “ it doesn't matter if the team your playing knows whats coming or not they still have to stop you”. You know the PF battle cry.
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I think we needed a corner and a FS. Golston from SF was available. He was a good player. We passed on Miliner in the draft.
I agree Vers, but I also keep telling myself they looked the roster over made a few moves and have basicly deferred the daft and FA to a degree until next off season when they have their scouts and talent people in place, along with a better look at whats here now and how it fits.
For me its hard to find real fault with that approach, but on the other hand they may very well be called to task for not addressing these very issues. Whether its fair or not remains to be seen, but patients may pay off.
Here's how
1- One or two of the youngsters steps up and plays lights out or is competent enough for us to be good, real good.
2-We have a better idea of what we truly have here and where we need to make changes that allow us to make better choices.
For instances Skrine is a stud FS or good enough to win with, we then can shift our assets, be that banked draft picks or FA money to addressing the CB position or a stud guard. But you never realize those opportunities later on because you panicked to a degree and didn't see where you were prior to making a move.
To a degree and I'm certain you'll agree this is a shake down year, We see what we got where we need to get better and then we address those needs with lets say pin point accuracy, with a better more diverse and talented draft pool then the one the league just had.
The youngsters that are here weren't given the best coaching, nor in many instances (see Weedon) did the scheme fit their skill set or strengths. And that IMO is so in every area of this team.
Now you have an assembly of youngsters with some talent the smart thing to do is #1 be patient #2 be patient.
The thing I find the most heartening is that its a FS or CB or a guard or a FB or a TE its not damned near every position on the football team. We have some guys that can ball, now we have to see if they can get better via better coaching and scheme.
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I also worry about the TE and FB positions. I think you could also make an argument that we should have traded down. Mingo might be good, but we already had Kruger and Sheard.
I agree again Vers with everything but Mingo. The FB we can get even if it comes down to a rented 1 season deal at the close of camp. That one I disregard completely. Camreon needs to step up big at TE and he needs to do something he has yet to do remain healthy. But Chud knows TE's, so he seems at least for the time being comfortable with the group he has??
The Mingo thing I agree with the thought process, they loved the player period. I think when you love a player you draft him if he's there and they did. I'm still taken aback by how quickly they turned in their pick in the 1st round. The powers that be deemed this a no brainer, even you have to agree when you feel that strongly about a player go and get him.
Shread at the point of the draft was an unknown, but let me say this when you can add a player like Mingo and with his potential and you feel strongly about the guy and he is there take him I don;t care how many guys you have that can assume that roll. Good football players are hard to come by when your sold, buy every single time.
For years we have all dreamed about drafting BPA and we do it and right on cue someone finds fault with it. Please don't take this the wrong way Vers, I understand your thinking, hopefully you understand mine and I believe our current FO as well. Not that my concurring with the reasoning I believe was used somehow validates my opinion over yours its more statement of fact IMO, or at least I have myself sold on the notion they loved this player.
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I realize things take time and you can't fix everything in a year, but I wish we would have made a few other moves.
There have been VERY few times when I haven't agreed with you Vers your easily one of these most knowledgeable football people I have ever run across you bring a unique perspective to every aspect of the game, players, and management. But your strongest trait IMO is your passion... I always admire that in anyone even if I don't agree.... Speaking of passion and disagreeing where is Spirit..LOL
I think we all need to be a tad patient at this point will know what we have here soon enough and I truly believe the stars have aligned we are going to be good, damned good …
Come on Weedon take the leap...........................
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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We just signed a FB so they have addressed it. Named Brock Bolen. Browns sign FB
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Here's Norv Turners presser about the Offense this season.... Norv On O
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Do you think we're getting a crack at the playoffs this year?
If not, why worry?
I agree that there were some big holes we've left open, but this thing doesn't have to happen overnight. The new FO would probably rather have their people in place before they make wholesale changes.
I'm a bit puzzled why we didn't address certain areas, but then again, I'm not looking at this year as playoffs-or-bust, so I'm not too anxious.
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No, I don't think we are going to sniff the playoffs and I am not worried.
I was simply addressing a point that a poster made about our offseason moves. I like what we have done overall, but there were some things I wish we would have differently. Hope that's okay to think that?
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I'm a bit puzzled why we didn't address certain areas....
Banner addressed that point in the thread "Committed to Building...".
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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As Vers pointed out, I am worried Horton will be a head coach before we find a replacement that can call this new D. I REALLY don't want to change AGAIN in a year or two. So we do need to groom a candidate for the inevitable day when Horton gets the HC call. It's going to happen, it's just a question of when....
Not to pat myself on the back, but I was talking about this a few hours before Vers. I mentioned Cioffi as a possibility. He came over with Horton, so he has been exposed to the system for several years now....and like Horton, he is a DB coach, so maybe the two speak the same language, so to speak.
As I said, we have made a pretty big investment in time and getting the players to run this type of D. It would suck for Horton to leave and not have someone to step in and make it seem pretty seamless. The last thing we want is the next guy who wants a 4-3, or even a guy like Romeo who preaches gap integrity in their vision of a 3-4 would be a big setback.
My hope is Horton told Cioffi to come here because when Horton got a HC job, he would push for Cioffi to get the DC job here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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For the record, this was an issue (him leaving after one year) discussed the minute Horton was hired.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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For the record, this was an issue (him leaving after one year) discussed the minute Horton was hired.
Probably so.
At any rate, he is the bio I pulled from the Browns site on Cioffi. To me, he would be the logical choice if continuity is the goal. Assuming he is any good, which I assume he is....
Sigismondo “Louie” Cioffi was named the Browns’ Defensive Backs coach on January 22, 2013. He brings 18 years of NFL coaching experience, including spending the past two seasons (2011-12) as the Arizona Cardinals’ defensive backs coach.
This past season with the Cardinals, Cioffi’s defensive backs were a part of a defensive unit that led the NFL in passer rating allowed (71.2) and interception percentage (4.4%). The defense also ranked second in the NFL in interceptions (22), second in third-down efficiency (32.9%), fourth in takeaways (33) and fifth in passing defense (200.8 ypg). Cioffi played a pivotal role in the development of 2011 first round draft pick, cornerbackPatrick Peterson. In 2012, Peterson ranked fourth in the NFL with seven interceptions and led the league with five fumble recoveries en route to being the only Cardinal selected to the 2013 Pro Bowl. In his first season with the Cardinals, Cioffi helped guide strong safety Adrian Wilson to a Pro Bowl selection.
Prior to Arizona, Cioffi spent 14 seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals, first as a defensive assistant (1997-2002) and then as assistant defensive backs coach (2003-10). During Cioffi’s tenure with the defensive backs in Cincinnati, the Bengals collected 150 interceptions, the fifth-highest total in the NFL during that eight-year span. In 2009, Cincinnati’s defense ranked fourth in the NFL in fewest yards allowed (301.4 per game), sixth in fewest passing yards allowed (203.1) and sixth in fewest average points allowed (18.2). Hired in 1997 as a defensive assistant at the age of 23, Cioffi was the youngest fulltime assistant coach in the NFL at that time. In addition to his on-field duties with players, he also handled much of the preparation work for the entire defense on the team’s upcoming opponent.
He began his coaching career in 1993 as a staff assistant with the New York Jets. Following two seasons with the Jets, Cioffi coached wide receivers for two seasons (1995-96) at C.W. Post University in Brookville, N.Y. The 1996 team won the ECAC Division II Championship.
Born in Queens, N.Y., Cioffi attended college at SUNY-Stony Brook. Cioffi and his wife, Cindy, have two daughters, Cecilia Elle and Corrine, and a son, Sigismondo Connor.
Louie Cioffi’s Coaching Background:
1993-94 New York Jets, staff assistant
1995-96 C.W. Post University, wide receivers
1997-2002 Cincinnati Bengals, defensive assistant
2003-2010 Cincinnati Bengals, assistant defensive backs
2011-12 Arizona Cardinals, defensive backs
2013- Cleveland Browns, defensive backs
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If Horton gets a HC gig next year, wouldn't it make sense for him to take Cioffi with him as his DC? Uh-oh, maybe we should have brought in another one of his defensive asst's ...
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If Horton gets a HC gig next year, wouldn't it make sense for him to take Cioffi with him as his DC? Uh-oh, maybe we should have brought in another one of his defensive asst's ...
I thought I was fairly clear....maybe not??
Anyway, Horton would push for Cioffi to get the DC job here.
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I am just excited to see all the enthusiasm with these kids to be in such an attacking system. I really was dreading the change to 3-4 but their energy and excitement is contagious. I liked Jauron a lot and feel he is a wonderful coach but his system is paint drying in comparison to what Horton wants to do.
I know its gonna take time for these kids to learn their drop distance and timing and all the nuances of this system but they are going to make some big time plays this year and quarterbacks better be ready.
Funny thing is I am more worried about the pass defense than run defense right now.
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I agree about the run. While everybody is excited about pinning their ears back to get to the QB, they need to be aware a runningback might have the ball and run past them.
But no doubt, we will see some plays. It like the last 5-6 years our D was more about waiting for something to happen rather than try to make something happen.
It's like the D was more about not losing games rather than winning games....if that makes any sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
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If Horton gets a HC gig next year, wouldn't it make sense for him to take Cioffi with him as his DC? Uh-oh, maybe we should have brought in another one of his defensive asst's ...
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I thought I was fairly clear....maybe not??
Maybe I missed something - what is it you thought you made clear?
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Anyway, Horton would push for Cioffi to get the DC job here.
IMO, Horton's first loyalty would be to his new team and he would want to bring the best candidate with him. I'm assuming that would be Cioffi and that he (Cioffi) doesn't have a multi-year deal here.
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the real question would be Cioffi. does he want to make a name for himself and potentially become a HC down the road? if yes, then he would likely stay (as Horton will still get undue credit for the defense from the HC slot). if he prefers to stay with Horton because they work well together and he's willing to see where things fall, then he'd likely follow.
I have no idea which one represents Cioffi though.
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j/c
most teams want offence HCs these days.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
IMO, Horton's first loyalty would be to his new team and he would want to bring the best candidate with him. I'm assuming that would be Cioffi and that he (Cioffi) doesn't have a multi-year deal here.
I get that about loyality.
My thinking, though I don't know where to look, is the coaches would be hired to more than year to year deals. I could be wrong but I don't think it the norm to keep tenured coaches to yearly deals.
Anyway, we are getting ahead of things here. Be it Coiffi or someone else, my hope is we have someone on staff to keep it going.
I don't mind change if what you are doing isn't any good, but if Horton leaves after the season, 1 year in this type of D isn't long enough to start changing to something else.
I am sure we agree with that.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think the contracts have anything to do with it. Isn't it setup that if Horton gets an interview for a higher job (HC) then he can go ahead and take that interview and get hired into that job (regardless of contract status)?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Quote:
Anyway, Horton would push for Cioffi to get the DC job here.
Why would he do that when he will need a DC at his new gig? Besides, Cioffi only has 2 years in the system with the Cardinals. Add one more here and it bodes the question... can he really know the zone blitz defense with 3 seasons as a DB coach? He knows the 4-3 they run in Cincinnati better than our new scheme.
If we lose Horton I'd be giving a serious look at Kevin Greene. Yes, the Dom Capers 3-4 is different than the Zone blitz, but it IS an attacking style 3-4 defense. The Blitzburgh defense.... probably wouldn't be as huge a change as some other DC's would make.....
Or we could just bring over a Steelers assistant... like
Keith Butler(linebackers coach) is in his ninth year on the Steelers’ coaching staff after joining the staff prior to the 2003 season. He remained on staff following Mike Tomlin’s hiring in January, 2007. Butler was named the Steelers’ linebackers coach Jan. 28, 2003, after serving the previous four seasons in a similar capacity with the Cleveland Browns (1999-02).
John Mitchell is in his 18th season as the Steelers’ defensive line coach, ranking him as the longest-tenured member of the Steelers’ coaching staff. He remained with the team following Mike Tomlin’s hiring in January, 2007, and was promoted to assistant head coach
Last edited by Spiritbro77; 07/25/13 01:39 PM.
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Quote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think the contracts have anything to do with it. Isn't it setup that if Horton gets an interview for a higher job (HC) then he can go ahead and take that interview and get hired into that job (regardless of contract status)?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe things have changed and teams don't have to allow interviews even if it is a promotion.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ray Horton on new Defense...
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