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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-171713542.htmlAs they get set to open training camp, the Chicago Bears received some startling news on Thursday as they were informed by defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis that he would not be reporting to training camp and intends to retire from the National Football League. Ellis was a 2008 first-round pick out of USC by the New Orleans Saints, where he's started 70 games over the last five seasons, totaling 173 tackles, 12.5 sacks and 14 passes defensed. Ellis' top season came when he posted six sacks during the 2010 season. In the last two seasons, the 6-foot, 305-pound nose tackle has just a half-sack in 1,412 defensive snaps, according to official NFL playing-time documents. As the No. 7 overall pick in 2008, Ellis earned over $33.5 million over the last five seasons and became an unrestricted free agent in March. Ellis did not garner much interest and joined the Bears on June 12 after paying free agent visits to the Detroit Lions and New England Patriots. Ellis' deal with the Bears was worth $1 million and included $500,000 in guaranteed money. The guaranteed portion was split between a $285,000 signing bonus and a $215,000 guarantee on his $715,000 base salary. By retiring, the Bears are off the hooks for those amounts, including the signing bonus. The Bears had hoped that Ellis could be a rotational tackle who provides depth behind starters Henry Melton and Stephen Paea. Those duties will now fall to Nate Collins, Corvey Irvin and undrafted rookies Brent Russell, Zach Minter and Christian Tupou. ______________________________________________________________ Bears in the market for a DT? We have Rubin, Taylor, Kitchen, Baptiste... It may be smart for the Browns to try and move one of out NTs to Chicago for a piece that could help...CB? Even if it's a backup like Zack Bowman. Just a thought... Regardless...having a projected starter (or at least rotational guy) retire just before training camp hurts. (see Bob Hallen). Bummer for that Bears D. Anyone else see them going 6-10 this year? No Urlacher, No Ellis, No Lovie...plus Marc Trestman...ugh. Next year there is going to be a lot of heat for Lovie, when the Bears flop HARD. I don't know why they thought they could do better than Lovie
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Wow! I really thought Ellis was going to be a good player in the NFL. A very good player. Boy, was I wrong....
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He had all the talent in the world...looks like his head and his heart just weren't in it.
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We have a plethora of defensive tackles. Hughes, Winn, Rubin, etc. Winn or Hughes for a 3rd rounder might be a fine idea. If the Bears are in dire need we do have some help for them. Some of these guys will be cut during camp anyway. Can't keep all of them on a 3-4 roster.....
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Why weaken our biggest strength before the season even starts? Because another team has a need? At the very least wait till preseason is over in case someone goes down with an injury.
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I'd rather keep our DTs. Injuries often happen along the dline. If we're giving up a nice young player like Winn I want more than a 3rd round pick.
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Quote:
I'd rather keep our DTs. Injuries often happen along the dline. If we're giving up a nice young player like Winn I want more than a 3rd round pick.
I agree. DL is not only a position of depth for us, but quality depth as well. I see no need to weaken that position for a mid round draft pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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At the VERY most you keep 6 "tackles" on a 3-4 team as DE's/Nose
We have Taylor and Rubin that can play Nose. We just brought in Bryant at one DE position. That leaves ONE DE starting position open. They say Rubin will play there. So starting is Rubin Taylor and Bryant. Add two, MAYBE three backups and what we have left is either cut or traded. That's if any of them show talent at their new positions.... Winn and Hughes played well for us at defensive tackle. We have no idea how they will fare at 3-4DE. If we can get a decent pick for one of them, why not do it? Especially if they aren't really in our plans anyway?
I have a feeling that with keeping an extra kicker on the team, roster positions will be at a premium. I could see them only keeping two DL backups. In a pinch Kruger could play DE with Mingo and Sheard at OLB.
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Who said we are keeping an extra kicker? Quote:
Special teams coordinator Chris Tabor has indicated that he doesn’t expect to keep two kickers, so one job is up for grabs.
Link
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Winn and Hughes played well for us at defensive tackle. We have no idea how they will fare at 3-4DE. If we can get a decent pick for one of them, why not do it? Especially if they aren't really in our plans anyway?
They aren't in our plans?
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I wouldn't want to trade away what should be a fairly strong position for us (especially one that is cheap).
OTOH, if after a few practices we decide that Winn/Hughes/Rubin/Taylor aren't going to make the transition to the 3-4 smoothly, then we are in a unique position to trade a piece that doesn't have much value to us -- but has a lot of value to a 4-3 team.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of these guys gets traded to a team like the bears who desparately need a 4-3 DT. But it won't just be because we have an extra guy - it will be because we don't see the guy we trade fitting in with our new scheme.
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If Chicago was WANTING one of our DTs, I'd have to assume it's either Taylor or Rubin. I am not sure the type of player Ellis was for Chicago, what they are lacking in their style of 4-3, and how that fits into their wishes for a next DT.
Personally, I'd move Rubin over Taylor for a few reasons. Plug in Winn as the other DE. I think he fits the scheme as a 3-4 DE better...or at least will.
But I doubt the team moves any of our guys. I think they like the flexibility. And for the most part, so do I.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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....I guess the Bears could want someone like Billy Winn as well. He had a nice year as a rookie.
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I wouldn't mind Charles Tillman opposite Joe Haden. He's 32 but still a top top guy. I'd be willing to part with any of our backups if they were desperate enough. Heck they can have Des Bryant if they wanted him.
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You let them find their own linemen, those that are on this team should be here to stay and wreck havoc under our uniform colors. I want all our known linemen (Hughes, Winn, Bryant, Rube, Taylor) all here in Brown and Orange and I am sure Horton does as' well running that 3+ man front formation we keep hearing about...
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If we got a 3rd say for Billy Winn...that's a great value. We got the kid in the middle of the 6th.
If you get anything in the first two days for him, you've made a major boom for the team.
As for whether or not we should or shouldn't move these guys...I'm not suggesting we do...I'm saying its a possibility.
We have...Taylor, Hughes, Winn, Rubin, Kitchen, Baptiste, Bryant, Armonty Bryant, and Brian Sanford all tabbed to play on the DL. We aren't keeping them all. Find who will both be the worst fit, and the highest value...and make a move if we can get acceptable value. We will at most keep 7. That's 9. I see Sanford and Armonty getting cut, Bryant going to the PS...that still leaves 7 guys...how much time can they really get?
If we make a move great...if not, still good.
But if theres value to be had...lets make a move
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Quote:
If we got a 3rd say for Billy Winn...that's a great value. We got the kid in the middle of the 6th.
If you get anything in the first two days for him, you've made a major boom for the team.
I would agree it would be a good return on the investment at this time. However, is the long term future bright enough for someone like Billy Winn that you think keeping him makes it even that much more of an wiser investment?
I don't know that answer to that. But you do have someone like Rubin who is older, making more $$, and IMO, in a position that doesn't necessarily suit him as a DE in this style of 3-4.
I guess I just think Rubin's future in CLE is limited. He may be here this year, but I don't think in 2014. But that's just me. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 07/25/13 03:58 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I wouldn't mind Charles Tillman opposite Joe Haden. He's 32 but still a top top guy. I'd be willing to part with any of our backups if they were desperate enough. Heck they can have Des Bryant if they wanted him.
Why would you want to get rid of Desmond Bryant? He is tailor made for DE in this defense.
Now if they wanted to trade me a top CB for Armonty Bryant ...... that I'd do. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Jeeesh, we're finally just now getting a roster of young, talented players and some quality depth and you guys want to start trading them away. 
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Why would you want to get rid of Desmond Bryant? He is tailor made for DE in this defense.
Now if they wanted to trade me a top CB for Armonty Bryant ...... that I'd do.
I think Desmond Bryant may be the best FA we signed as time goes on but what makes you think he's "tailor made" for this defense? He's never played it before in the NFL. He's rotated quite a bit in a 4-3 defense but I don't think he's been in a 3-4 yet. My apologies if this is incorrect.
I agree he has the potential. Maybe the best potential to be a JJ Watt type DE in any attack style 3-4. But can't commit to being "tailor made". I think you have a better argument for Kruger and his OLB position in that regard as being most ready.
I pray he is not a reincarnation of Corey Williams of 2008.
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Quote:
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Why would you want to get rid of Desmond Bryant? He is tailor made for DE in this defense.
Now if they wanted to trade me a top CB for Armonty Bryant ...... that I'd do.
I think Desmond Bryant may be the best FA we signed as time goes on but what makes you think he's "tailor made" for this defense? He's never played it before in the NFL. He's rotated quite a bit in a 4-3 defense but I don't think he's been in a 3-4 yet. My apologies if this is incorrect.
I agree he has the potential. Maybe the best potential to be a JJ Watt type DE in any attack style 3-4. But can't commit to being "tailor made". I think you have a better argument for Kruger and his OLB position in that regard as being most ready.
I pray he is not a reincarnation of Corey Williams of 2008.
same with tayler. while rubin has proven he can play.
Last edited by pblack18707; 07/25/13 04:20 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Kind of ironic but it's being discussed that a key member of our DL is injured and not practicing today. Not going to say anything more as I don't have a link to a story yet. Stay tuned.
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Taylor, no. You're right, Not in the NFL. But I read he did in college. Rubin hasn't either. Not in this style 3-4 nor the position of DE.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 07/25/13 04:25 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Son of a ......
#browns dt Phil Taylor not practicing today, rubber sleeve on left shin, working with trainer. I jinxed him.
Last edited by pblack18707; 07/25/13 04:37 PM.
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Not all that concern with a sleeve on his shin. But still, not good. It's Day 1. 
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There's only so much room on a roster. You want to keep 8 or 9 defensive linemen? Fine. We keep 6 linebackers. You eat up roster spots with DL you have to come up short somewhere else. In a 3-4, linebackers are usually at a premium. But if Horton decides he wants to keep 8 or 9 linemen and cut himself short at linebacker, that's fine too. As long as they all stay healthy.... Otherwise Winn and Hughes might be starting at linebacker....
As for Bryant, he isn't going anywhere. They just signed him. I don't know about comparing him to JJ Watt though. Bryant hasn't got more than 5 sacks in a season. Now, perhaps being in this new D will increase that number, but I seriously doubt he'll get 20+ sacks this year. Man, wouldn't THAT be something.
I'll buy that he's a sack machine when he becomes on on the field. To date he hasn't been. But we shall soon see....
Last edited by Spiritbro77; 07/25/13 05:00 PM.
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If Chicago was WANTING one of our DTs, I'd have to assume it's either Taylor or Rubin. I am not sure the type of player Ellis was for Chicago, what they are lacking in their style of 4-3, and how that fits into their wishes for a next DT.
Personally, I'd move Rubin over Taylor for a few reasons. Plug in Winn as the other DE. I think he fits the scheme as a 3-4 DE better...or at least will.
But I doubt the team moves any of our guys. I think they like the flexibility. And for the most part, so do I.
Rubin has actually played Nose in the past. I'd hesitate trading him. And I like our line depth too. But there are only so many roster spots. You want to keep every DL on the roster, then we'll have to cut linebackers.
Last edited by Spiritbro77; 07/25/13 05:14 PM.
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Jeeesh, we're finally just now getting a roster of young, talented players and some quality depth and you guys want to start trading them away.
Yeah, it's stumps me too... 
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We have a plethora of defensive tackles. Hughes, Winn, Rubin, etc. Winn or Hughes for a 3rd rounder might be a fine idea. If the Bears are in dire need we do have some help for them. Some of these guys will be cut during camp anyway. Can't keep all of them on a 3-4 roster.....
honestly i would hate to lose hughs or winn....but if i had to chose it would be hughs....i was really impressed with hughs last year...thought he was very good for a rookie....however i think he will flourish in a 4-3....not a 3-4....i think he is a round peg in a square hole in this system. Winn was also very good as a rookie....but i think he can also be very good in a 3-4
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j/c: Love talking trades, huh guys?  I think the odds of us trading w/Chicago are very, very slim. Oh, and I think Ellis played for New Orleans and only signed w/the Bears this year. Back to Madden Madness. 
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I agree with you there...
I'd make that move if we could too...We took Rubin in the 6th...itd be a great return for him too.
However...his motor makes it possible for him to be a DE in our new defense.
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It has to start somehow
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What better time than now?"
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Quote:
Quote:
Why would you want to get rid of Desmond Bryant? He is tailor made for DE in this defense.
Now if they wanted to trade me a top CB for Armonty Bryant ...... that I'd do.
I think Desmond Bryant may be the best FA we signed as time goes on but what makes you think he's "tailor made" for this defense? He's never played it before in the NFL. He's rotated quite a bit in a 4-3 defense but I don't think he's been in a 3-4 yet. My apologies if this is incorrect.
I agree he has the potential. Maybe the best potential to be a JJ Watt type DE in any attack style 3-4. But can't commit to being "tailor made". I think you have a better argument for Kruger and his OLB position in that regard as being most ready.
I pray he is not a reincarnation of Corey Williams of 2008.
Why do I think that he is tailor made for this defense? Because he is a big DL, at 6'6" and 310# ....... with strong pass rush ability, and the ability to stop the run. He has also proven that he can penetrate against double teams. He has had 9 sacks over the past 2 seasons. That's extremely good for an interior DT. He is also big enough to knock down passes.
He's not Corey Williams, and this isn't the defense that we played back then. The DE in this defense will rush the passer, paying the run on the way to the QB. It's an aggressive defense. Bryant fits that very well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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At the VERY most you keep 6 "tackles" on a 3-4 team as DE's/Nose
We have Taylor and Rubin that can play Nose. We just brought in Bryant at one DE position. That leaves ONE DE starting position open. They say Rubin will play there. So starting is Rubin Taylor and Bryant. Add two, MAYBE three backups and what we have left is either cut or traded. That's if any of them show talent at their new positions.... Winn and Hughes played well for us at defensive tackle. We have no idea how they will fare at 3-4DE. If we can get a decent pick for one of them, why not do it? Especially if they aren't really in our plans anyway?
I have a feeling that with keeping an extra kicker on the team, roster positions will be at a premium. I could see them only keeping two DL backups. In a pinch Kruger could play DE with Mingo and Sheard at OLB.
Rubin will be cut or traded after this season if he doesn't take a pay cut. Book it.
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Maybe not though, look at what Bryant was granted by Banner. But likely yes, he's assured quite a bit of guaranteed money, especially if he doesn't produce in the defense which I am not questioning that at all.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Why would you want to get rid of Desmond Bryant? He is tailor made for DE in this defense.
Now if they wanted to trade me a top CB for Armonty Bryant ...... that I'd do.
I think Desmond Bryant may be the best FA we signed as time goes on but what makes you think he's "tailor made" for this defense? He's never played it before in the NFL. He's rotated quite a bit in a 4-3 defense but I don't think he's been in a 3-4 yet. My apologies if this is incorrect.
I agree he has the potential. Maybe the best potential to be a JJ Watt type DE in any attack style 3-4. But can't commit to being "tailor made". I think you have a better argument for Kruger and his OLB position in that regard as being most ready.
I pray he is not a reincarnation of Corey Williams of 2008.
Why do I think that he is tailor made for this defense? Because he is a big DL, at 6'6" and 310# ....... with strong pass rush ability, and the ability to stop the run. He has also proven that he can penetrate against double teams. He has had 9 sacks over the past 2 seasons. That's extremely good for an interior DT. He is also big enough to knock down passes.
He's not Corey Williams, and this isn't the defense that we played back then. The DE in this defense will rush the passer, paying the run on the way to the QB. It's an aggressive defense. Bryant fits that very well.
I hope you're right man. I really do. Would be awesome to have a big guy like that get after the quarterback. *fingers crossed*
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J/C For those who don't see Kruger, Sheard and Mingo on the field at the same time check out the link after the following summery quote: "As this piece highlights, there is no reason to worry about Barkevious Mingo likely being used as a situational pass rusher during his rookie season. Mingo may not be the same player as Aldon Smith, but Smith’s usage and production during his rookie season is a prime example of why Mingo can be highly productive even in a situational role. Ray Horton has always been the type of coordinator that adjusts to his personnel and there is no reason to believe he will stop now. Even if Horton does not use the ideas in this piece, expect him to find plenty of creative ways to maximize the talents of Mingo, Paul Kruger, and Jabaal Sheard all on the field at the same time." How Will the Browns Maximize Mingo? This was posted by guard dawg in another thread. It's a very interesting read in how Horton may use Mingo as a situational pass rusher in his rookie season.
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J/C Read a Pluto article where he says Horton thinks Bryant's natural position is at the NOSE, but he feels the young man can play at a high level at 3-4 DE. 
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That's confusing. From what I've seen, Bryant makes an ideal end and is a horrible fit at nose.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sedrick Ellis to retire...Chicago
now hurting at DT
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