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As the new season approaches we all want the Browns to succeed. We all want to be optimistic. However, being realistic most would conclude that the best we can hope for is to win 7 to 9 games.
Where would that leave us?
More than likely the result would be that Weeden improved some but did not light the world on fire. Improvement should be expected, but does anyone really believe that Weeden will be a fixture for 8 years and be the guy to lead a team to a championship? He will be 31 next year.
So that would put the Browns drafting somewhere around 12th or so. Which would mean that that if the wanted the best quarterback in the draft there would be a stiff price to pay.
It is understandable why the Browns made the investment in free agency and the draft on defense. They felt it necessary to change the defense. They also had to see what Weeden can do. And it is not possible to make all changes necessary at one time.
So here we go, the start of another season. A season with limited expectations. A season that for me will be hopeful for great strides on defense. While I pay attention to who is the college quarterback that I want to be a future Brown.
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Hall of Famer
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Unlike basketball, being high in the draft doesn't mean you will get a star or anything like that.
There is no price for mediocrity. Football is easier to move from mediocre to great than in any sport.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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better odds at that QB high in the draft, but I think there are quite a few good QBs coming out in the next draft and someone is going to get one of them in the teens.
it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Going into the season, here are the likely tiers:
"Elite"
Bridgewater
Boyd
"Possible Elite"
McCarron
Brett Hundley
"2nd round guys"
Manziel (unless someone wants to go full-spread like Philly?)
Morris
Murray
"Lower Division Wild Card Guys"
David Fales
Derek Carr
Jeff Mathews
And, this list doesn't even include guys like Keith Price, Logan Thomas, or Zach Mettenberger who could all potentially shine and move their way up the list. Not to mention the "customary" out of nowhere guy.
Or Braxton Miller, Gardner, or Mariotta if more teams want to go full-spread or think those guys can alter their games for the NFL some like Russell Wilson did.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Outside of the Mannings, the SB winning QB's last 10 yrs or so were all drafted outside the top 10.
Flacco (rd 1, pk 18)
Rodgers (rd 1, pk 24)
Brees (rd 2, pk 32)
Roethlisburger (rd 1, pk 11)\
Brady (rd 6, pk 199)
Brady 3 times, Ben twice. All of those teams are perennial contenders.
I really think because those teams didn't really tank, that they built up the roster as well, that they have sustained the way the NFL has teams up and down.
Coaching is also huge with all of those teams.
There's nothing wrong with a top 5 QB, but usually when you are picking that high, there are many other problems outside of QB.
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Legend
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SuperBowl Year
Winner Name / Year Drafted / Rnd / Pck / Team / School
LoserName / Year Drafted / Rnd / Pck / Team / School
Hightlighted 1st round top 10 picks
1967
Bart Starr1956 17 7 200 Packers Alabama
Len Dawson, KC 1957 1 5 5 Steelers Purdue
1968
Bart Starr, GB 1956 17 7 200 Packers Alabama
Daryle Lamonica, OAK 1963 24 14 188 Bills Notre Dame
1969
Joe Namath, NYJ 1965 1 1 1 Jets Alabama
Johnny Unitas, BAL 1955 9 5 102 Steelers Louisville
1970
Len Dawson, KC 1957 1 5 5 Steelers Purdue
Joe Kapp, MIN 1959 18 5 209 Redskins California
1971
Earl Morrall, BAL 1956 1 2 2 49ers Michigan State
Craig Morton, DAL 1965 1 5 5 Cowboys California
1972
Roger Staubach, DAL 1964 10 3 129 Cowboys Navy
Bob Griese, MIA 1967 1 4 4 Dolphins Purdue
1973
Bob Griese, MIA 1967 1 4 4 Dolphins Purdue
Bill Kilmer, WAS 1961 1 11 11 49ers UCLA
1974
Bob Griese, MIA 1967 1 4 4 Dolphins Purdue
Fran Tarkenton, MIN 1961 3 1 29 Vikings Georgia
1975
Terry Bradshaw, PIT 1970 1 1 1 Steelers Louisiana Tech
Fran Tarkenton, MIN 1961 3 1 29 Vikings Georgia
1976
Terry Bradshaw, PIT 1970 1 1 1 Steelers Louisiana Tech
Roger Staubach, DAL 1964 10 3 129 Cowboys Navy
1977
Kenny Stabler, OAK 1968 2 25 52 Raiders Alabama
Fran Tarkenton, MIN 1961 3 1 29 Vikings Georgia
1978
Roger Staubach, DAL 1964 10 3 129 Cowboys Navy
Craig Morton, DEN 1965 1 5 5 Cowboys California
1979
Terry Bradshaw, PIT 1970 1 1 1 Steelers Louisiana Tech
Roger Staubach, DAL 1964 10 3 129 Cowboys Navy
1980
Terry Bradwhaw, PIT 1970 1 1 1 Steelers Louisiana Tech
Vince Ferragamo, LAR 1977 4 7 91 Rams Nebraska
1981
Jim Plunkett, OAK 1971 1 1 1 Patriots Stanford
Ron Jaworski, PHI 1973 2 11 37 Rams Youngstown State
1982
Joe Montana, SF 1979 3 26 82 49ers Notre Dame
Ken Anderson, CIN 1971 3 15 67 Bengals Augustana IL
1983
Joe Theismann, WAS 1971 4 21 99 Dolphins Notre Dame
David Woodley, MIA 1980 8 21 214 Dolphins Louisiana State
1984
Jim Plunkett, LAR 1971 1 1 1 Patriots Stanford
Joe Theismann, WAS 1971 4 21 99 Dolphins Notre Dame
1985
Joe Montano, SF 1979 3 26 82 49ers Notre Dame
Dan Marino, MIA 1983 1 27 27 Dolphins Pittsburgh
1986
Jim McMahon, CHI 1982 1 5 5 Bears Brigham Young
Tony Eason, NE 1983 1 15 15 Patriots Illinois
Steve Grogan, NE 1975 5 12 116 Patriots Kansas State
1987
Phil Simms, NYG 1979 1 7 7 Giants Morehead State
John Elway, DEN 1983 1 1 1 Colts Stanford
1988
Doug Williams, WAS 1978 1 17 17 Buccaneers Grambling
John Elway, DEN 1983 1 1 1 Colts Stanford
1989
Joe Montana, SF 1979 3 26 82 49ers Notre Dame
Boomer Esiason, CIN 1984 2 10 38 Bengals Maryland
1990
Joe Montana, SF 1979 3 26 82 49ers Notre Dame
John Elway, DEN 1983 1 1 1 Colts Stanford
1991
Jeff Hostetler, NYG 1984 3 3 59 Giants West Virginia
Jim Kelly, BUF 1983 1 14 14 Bills Miami FL
1992
Mark Rypien, WAS 1986 6 8 146 Redskins Washington State
Jim Kelly, BUF 1983 1 14 14 Bills Miami FL
1993
Troy Aikman, DAL 1989 1 1 1 Cowboys UCLA
Jim Kelly, BUF 1983 1 14 14 Bills Miami FL
Frank Reich, BUF 1985 3 1 57 Bills Maryland
1994
Troy Aikman, DAL 1989 1 1 1 Cowboys UCLA
Jim Kelly, BUF 1983 1 14 14 Bills Miami FL
1995
Steve Young, SF 1984s 1 1 1 Buccaneers Brigham Young
Stan Humphreys, SD 1988 6 22 159 Redskins Louisiana - Monroe
1996
Troy Aikman, DAL 1989 1 1 1 Cowboys UCLA
Neil O'Donnell, PIT 1990 3 17 70 Steelers Maryland
1997
Brett Favre, GB 1991 2 6 33 Falcons Southern Mississippi
Drew Bledsoe, NE 1993 1 1 1 Patriots Washington State
1998
John Elway, DEN 1983 1 1 1 Colts Stanford
Brett Favre, GB 1991 2 6 33 Falcons Southern Mississippi
1999
John Elway, DEN 1983 1 1 1 Colts Stanford
Chris Chandler, ATL 1988 3 21 76 Colts Washington
2000
Kurt Warner, STL undrafted Northern Iowa
Steve McNair, TEN 1995 1 3 3 Oilers Alcorn State
2001
Trent Dilfer, BAL 1994 1 6 6 Buccaneers Fresno State
Kerry Collins, NYG 1995 1 5 5 Panthers Penn State
2002
Tom Brady, NE 2000 6 33 199 Patriots Michigan
Kurt Warner, STL undrafted Northern Iowa
2003
Brad Johnson, TB 1992 9 3 227 Vikings Florida State
Rich Gannon, OAK 1987 4 14 98 Patriots Delaware
2004
Tom Brady, NE 2000 6 33 199 Patriots Michigan
Jake Delhomme, CAR undrafted Louisiana - Lafayette
2005
Tom Brady, NE 2000 6 33 199 Patriots Michigan
Donovan McNabb, PHI 1999 1 2 2 Patriots Syracuse
2006
Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 2004 1 11 11 Steelers Miami OH
Matt Hasselbeck, SEA 1998 6 34 187 Packers Boston College
2007
Peyton Manning, IND 1998 1 1 1 Colts Tennessee
Rex Grossman, CHI 2003 1 22 22 Bears Florida
2008
Eli Manning, NYG 2004 1 1 1 Chargers Mississippi
Tom Brady, NE 2000 6 33 199 Patriots Michigan
2009
Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 2004 1 11 11 Steelers Miami OH
Kurt Warner, ARI undrafted Northern Iowa
2010
Drew Brees, NO 2001 2 1 32 Chargers Purdue
Peyton Manning, IND 1998 1 1 1 Colts Tennessee
2011
Aaron Rodgers, GB 2005 1 24 24 Packers California
Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 2004 1 11 11 Steelers Miami OH
2012
Eli Manning, NYG 2004 1 1 1 Chargers Mississippi
Tom Brady, NE 2000 6 33 199 Patriots Michigan
2013
Joe Flacco, BAL 2008 1 18 18 Ravens Delaware
Colin Kaepernick, SF 2011 2 4 36 49ers Nevada
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Being one of the worst teams in the league has done so much for us over the past 4 or 5 years ...........  You have to walk before you run ..... but that said, usually a team that takes that big step from walk to run has most of their pieces in place, and they just need to develop and learn how to play together. A bad team can have talented players who just need to learn one another's strengths and weaknesses, and the coaching staff has to figure out how to effectively use those players. I am encouraged that we could be a team that could take a big step over the next year or so, based on how Weeden does, because I think that this team has talent. I love the OL. I love our RB brigade. I think we have some talented WR, and have depth there. Guys we started in past years would be hard pressed to make this team this year, and we will probably cut a receiver who will then make someone else's team. TE and QB are the 2 big questions on offense. On defense, I love a lot of our overall talent. Really, the biggest concern is the 2nd CB spot, but if Owens, McFadden, or Skrine can come through and become a solid 2nd QB, then our defense looks like it could be pretty damn good. We have amazing depth on the DL, and at OLB. I think that we have more talent at S than some give us credit for. So ..... if we are a solid team that loses games because of the QB, TE, and 1 CB spot ....... we could easily fill all of those spots in the right draft. We have assets to move around if we need to. We have 9 draft picks next year, 6 in the 1st 4 rounds. I really like where we are situated right now. I am excited for the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I see something interesting in the list I posted.
In the last 10 years, if not for the Mannings and McNabb, there weren't any top 10 QBs in the SB.
In SB history only 14 different top 10 picks have won the superbowl.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Quote:
However, being realistic most would conclude that the best we can hope for is to win 7 to 9 games.
Do you want me to discuss what I think realistically or what I can hope for? Those are 2 different things. 
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
I see something interesting in the list I posted.
In the last 10 years, if not for the Mannings and McNabb, there weren't any top 10 QBs in the SB.
In SB history only 14 different top 10 picks have won the superbowl.
Yup, that's where I was getting at.
I don't think you can look at the entire NFL history and draft picks, because of how different things are, how the salary cap has dominated this league (which has put more emphasis on the draft). Then you can't forget to factor in how the passing game has evolved combined with what seems like a shorter shelf life for the RB's. You can argue the latter part of that, but with the rule changes for receivers both with obstruction, and the defenseless rule, the game favors passing schemes big time.
The best QB's today can operate without a consistent running game. You see teams like the Patriots who seem to pass almost three times as much as they run. Rogers? Same thing.
I think the best example of how these QB's out of the top ten are set up better is both Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford. Those teams have some nice pieces, but you definitely need more than a QB and a big time receiver.
Both guys were top 3 picks, both came in with a bare cupboard.
Seems like QB's picked out of the top ten have a much better chance at having a great defense behind them to help make sure that all of the pressure doesn't fall on them.
It's just common sense though. How many times does a team with a great defense pick in the top 5?
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Legend
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The list is interesting even though great quarterbacks do not always get to a Super Bowl or win one.
If you look at the top guys around today most are first rounders. Obviously the higher the pick the better your chances.
Without rehashing the whole RGIII and Weeden draft the goal is to land a guy you can count as "our guy" for a 10+ year period.
As much as I wish Weedon all the best I do not see him as a Super Bowl winning QB.
I want a quarterback that I can believe in. For the Browns to win it all the quickest route is to have top notch QB end of sentence.
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Legend
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Quote:
The list is interesting even though great quarterbacks do not always get to a Super Bowl or win one.
If you look at the top guys around today most are first rounders. Obviously the higher the pick the better your chances.
Without rehashing the whole RGIII and Weeden draft the goal is to land a guy you can count as "our guy" for a 10+ year period.
As much as I wish Weedon all the best I do not see him as a Super Bowl winning QB.
I want a quarterback that I can believe in. For the Browns to win it all the quickest route is to have top notch QB end of sentence.
I like Weeden, I like the fit for our offense, but I agree with you. I think the most we can hope for is that he can stabilize this offense, help the coaches keep their jobs so we can see how our schemes look in 5 years. I think the best he can be for us is what Schaub is for Houston. Schaub will end up being the guy before the guy. Someone is going to take over that Houston squad and take them to the next level, at least for their case I hope that happens.
Schaub went down a few years ago and you saw similar results with the team that happened this year. He's just another cog in that system. They need that next guy.
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Legend
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I think this coaching staff is safe, regardless if Weeden shines or stinks.
But with that said, even if Weeden has an okay to decent season - I still think the staff is going to look to bring in another QB. The guy before the guy, I like this saying and agree to it. IMO, we are still in "people to get us by" mode in terms of the QB. Now if Weeden blazes it, then I have no problems saying I am wrong and being happy with that outcome. I just don't know if Weeden can make all the improvements that are literally "required" for him to be a starting caliber QB.
For the record, I hope he proves me, and the many Weeden doubters, wrong. We'll see.
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Legend
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Quote:
I think this coaching staff is safe, regardless if Weeden shines or stinks.
But with that said, even if Weeden has an okay to decent season - I still think the staff is going to look to bring in another QB. The guy before the guy, I like this saying and agree to it. IMO, we are still in "people to get us by" mode in terms of the QB. Now if Weeden blazes it, then I have no problems saying I am wrong and being happy with that outcome. I just don't know if Weeden can make all the improvements that are literally "required" for him to be a starting caliber QB.
For the record, I hope he proves me, and the many Weeden doubters, wrong. We'll see.
I definitely think he can prove me wrong if we can develop a sick consistent run game, leaving him only having to make a few plays here and there. Problem is these defenses are so good against the run that when it comes to crunch time, you are going to need big pass plays.
I hope he does prove me wrong though. I'm pulling for it.
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Legend
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Quote:
I just don't know if Weeden can make all the improvements that are literally "required" for him to be a starting caliber QB.
I honestly don't think he has that far to go to be a "starting caliber QB"... but there is a big gap between starting caliber and super bowl elite...
But in reality, how many get to super bowl elite? Not many. I hope Weeden can get there, obviously his window to do it won't be open nearly as long as most... heck look at a guy like Stafford, a lot of people had him ordained as the next elite QB and his record in 4 years is well under .500... and he has one of the best WRs in the NFL to throw to... you just never know who or when or if that next step is going to happen.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I just don't know if Weeden can make all the improvements that are literally "required" for him to be a starting caliber QB.
I honestly don't think he has that far to go to be a "starting caliber QB"... but there is a big gap between starting caliber and super bowl elite...
But in reality, how many get to super bowl elite? Not many. I hope Weeden can get there, obviously his window to do it won't be open nearly as long as most... heck look at a guy like Stafford, a lot of people had him ordained as the next elite QB and his record in 4 years is well under .500... and he has one of the best WRs in the NFL to throw to... you just never know who or when or if that next step is going to happen.
Yup, no running game, no defense, etc..
What would you rather have? A set up team like Houston with an average QB, or a top 5 pick surrounded by puke?
You may not win a SB either way but I will take my chances with Houston and Schaub with that "next guy" somewhere waiting, whether that be on the bench or still playing in college.
There is no elite defense in waiting for Detroit, they're just plain bad.
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Legend
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jc.
I'm hoping Weeden can do well enough fill the role until we find our next great QB, and give us time to fill in theother holes. And I don't mean an aging vet. I want us to draft our franchise QB. I don't want to keep stabbing in the dark at QBs hoping, I want to pick with some confidence.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Quote:
There is no elite defense in waiting for Detroit,
It's not for lack of investment...
Quote:
What would you rather have? A set up team like Houston with an average QB, or a top 5 pick surrounded by puke?
Obviously you would rather have Houstons situation... but a lot of QBs come in and start with puke (or what is believed to be puke) then the right QB pulls it all together with a few more draft picks in those first couple years while he struggles... QBs have succeeded all sorts of different ways...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
There is no elite defense in waiting for Detroit,
It's not for lack of investment...
Quote:
What would you rather have? A set up team like Houston with an average QB, or a top 5 pick surrounded by puke?
Obviously you would rather have Houstons situation... but a lot of QBs come in and start with puke (or what is believed to be puke) then the right QB pulls it all together with a few more draft picks in those first couple years while he struggles... QBs have succeeded all sorts of different ways...
And it takes more than a QB to have success. You have to have the right parts surrounding him, and you have to have the right FO and coaches.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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NRTU Ppl, but to expounding upon your comment. Maybe that's why it is a "team" sport? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I for one have not given up on Weeden being the QB for the next 8 years, in fact I am predicting Weeden is going to be the QB to take the rowns to its first Super Bowl.
This offense is geared to Weeden and I thought Weeden did a fair job last year in an offense that was not.
I think the Browns are 1 OG, 1 TE, 1 FB on offense and 1 FS, 2 MLB, 1 CB on defense and two years of continuity away from a possible super bowl contender.
The key will be to play in the same system for a few years and add a few players to upgrade a few positions
As much as this has become a passing league, I think establishing a strong running game is going to become the key for the Browns or any other team that does not have a player named Manning, Brady, or Rogers.
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Dawg Talker
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j/c The same fan impatience, frustrations, and worries resurface year after year. I hope the front office gives no attention to them. What I have seen so far from the front office is they are willing to make unpopular decisions (Lombardi?) if it fits with their long term team building plan. At the same time they have not been rash with the choices they have made, I can't label anything they have done to this point as desperate. If anything they have been cautious. If it becomes necessary to move up to get a QB that's what trading the two'13 picks for the '14 picks will help the team do. The outcome of this season and the QB performance cannot be known as of this moment. The team has resources including depth at the QB position if needed. They sky is not falling. 
Last edited by guard dawg; 07/29/13 06:15 PM.
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Legend
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Quote:
They sky is not falling.
Shhhh...Don't say that around here, you'll ruin all the fun. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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The price of mediocrity are empty stadiums halfway through the 3rd quarter.
The quarterback, end of sentence thing? You have to include the coach too. They need a coach and a quarterback. That would solve so much.
I get tired of seeing the defense, supposedly trying to win the game, when the defense plays so well, yet the offense is so Bad, that they just keep giving the ball right back to the opponent.
The way to change that, is the Quarterback.
So a great Qb would really help the defense, because the whole idea of the NFL is being able to keep possession of the ball on offense, and take possession of the ball from defense.
So Here's the formula for losing for 20+ years in a row. Often draft defense first, with your very 1st pick, and Change coaches/ Gm's every 3 or so years.
I think we can expect another 11, or 12 loss season.
Just because, a first year HC, DC, OC, and GM = disaster.
Once it starts to Not Work, do these guys have any new ideas?
Chud? Norv? Ray?
I don't remember the last time the Browns won a game that they didn't just sneak out a victory at the last tic of the clock. The last time they actually had one wrapped up and didn't almost lose it even though the column went W.
Only 3 games in the last 6 years come to mind, A giants game, A Thursday night Pittsburgh game, and A Dolphin game in 2007?.
The Bengals don't count, they're barely nfl anyway.
I think they'll win 4 games, but I don't know which, and I don't think any will be secure wins, just ones they eek out. And unless the Qb is better They ain't got any chance of getting to 8-8.
And I'd love to be wrong, and I want to be wrong and the best way to start out by being wrong is to see this team come out and Whoop Miami, and Girldog slap Baltimore to be 2-0
Because if they do they'll be at least tied for the division lead, for the first time since when? Seriously When?
If Jeff Blake can get the 97ish Bengals to 8-8, then Why Can't Weeden get the Browns there? C'mon Weeden, " I just want to say good luck, we're all counting on you."
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I think they'll win 4 games
I don't predict the number of wins, but I'll say one thing: We will be drafting in a double digit position next year...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Quote:
I hope Weeden can get there, obviously his window to do it won't be open nearly as long as most... heck look at a guy like Stafford, a lot of people had him ordained as the next elite QB and his record in 4 years is well under .500... and he has one of the best WRs in the NFL to throw to... you just never know who or when or if that next step is going to happen.
I think Stafford is a pretty good qb. He's battled some injuries and been somewhat inconsistent, but I would be thrilled if Weeden elevated his game and played like Stafford.
I just don't get how people can say that Weeden didn't play that bad last year. I wonder if they are going strictly by the number of yards he threw for? The guy held the ball forever. He missed seeing wide open receivers. He stared down receivers at times. He would check down for a 2 yd. gain on 3rd and 12., thereby increasing his completion percentage while also ensuring we would punt again. He was wildly inaccurate on many throws. I didn't see him make plays. I didn't see him show "it." Ever.
He's got a long way to go. If someone suggested a trade between the Browns and Lions.......Weeden for Stafford straight up........which team would be jumping at it and which team would be laughing as they put down the phone?
The Lions were 3rd in total yards last year. They were second in the entire NFL in passing yards---over 300 a game. Their run game was ranked 23rd, which shows you that Stafford didn't have a lot of help from his run game. They actually had to sign Robiske to play at the other WR. He even caught a TD pass. Their defense was ranked 27th overall.
They blew some leads late in games. They lost to Tenn 44-41; Indy 35-33; Houston 34-31; Chicago 26-24; Green Bay twice--27-20 and 24-20. That's a lot of close games and we have to remember they were 10 and 6 in 2011.
Kinda hard to blame Stafford too much. Heck, their OL is replacing 3 starters from last year.
Detroit is a weird team. They have some very talented guys like Stafford, Johnson, Suh, Farley, etc..........but, they have some glaring holes on their roster and they seem to be a bunch of head cases that can't finish games.
I guess my point is that I really don't think there is much of a comparison between Stafford and Weeden at this point of their careers. Stafford is a far superior qb.
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I simply cannot forgive the skinny post Gordon ran against the Donks. He was wide open, it was a touchdown and Weeden skipped it 10 yards SHORT. It was one of those, "Oh my god you have to be kidding me" moments. Not to mention the OVER throws he had, The Raiders game (which was a good game for him) comes to mind. Missing guys by 5 yards on an overthrow.
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He's even overthrown Benjamin, which I didn't know was possible with that kid's speed... he's overthrown people in the flats and the checkdowns. He's given up some big plays with the inaccuracy.
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and Stafford won a ton of those close games the year prior. sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way.
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I must say Weeden had some AWFUL throws last year. It's one thing to make the wrong read as a rookie ... that's pretty much expected. But how many times do you see a legit professional QB make that many terrible throws to WIDE OPEN players? That, along with his inability to avoid rushers, is my biggest concern about Weeden.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I didn't see him show "it." Ever.
I agree. The closest he came was the Dallas game. That loss was not entirely on him. I mean, he did rally for a come from behind TD which put us ahead toward the end of the 4th quarter, but the defense let us down as the 'Boys rallied for the go ahead win.
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I remember that game. I'm no conspiracy nut, but if there was ever a case to be made, it would be that game (that the games are fixed).
Blaming the refs for a loss is weak, but there was a lot of weirdness in that 4th quarter.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
I just don't get how people can say that Weeden didn't play that bad last year. I wonder if they are going strictly by the number of yards he threw for? The guy held the ball forever. He missed seeing wide open receivers. He stared down receivers at times. He would check down for a 2 yd. gain on 3rd and 12., thereby increasing his completion percentage while also ensuring we would punt again. He was wildly inaccurate on many throws. I didn't see him make plays. I didn't see him show "it." Ever.
He played like a rookie. I said before and I'll say again that one of the reasons Weeden is being judged so harshly is because of the almost unprecedented year that Luck, RGIII, and Wilson had.... I don't think that 3 rookies have played like that in the same year since... well, forever.
yebat' Putin
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Weeden is judged harshly because he played poorly, he is old, and we spent a first round pick on him.
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Weeden is judged harshly because he played poorly, he is old, and we spent a first round pick on him.
Can't really say it any better than that. IMO the criticism of Weeden is very deserving. Yes, Shurmur dialed in bad play calls and etc. Yes, WR dropped passes. All that aside, Weeden still deserves the finger pointing game. And until he proves otherwise, he'll always be questioned and judged negatively.
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I think they'll win 4 games
I don't predict the number of wins, but I'll say one thing: We will be drafting in a double digit position next year...
Read an interview with a Vegas insider that said when the O/U for total wins came out for all the NFL teams, the Browns opened up at 6, and the immediate action favored the over.
It is known that sharp bettors hit the lines early because that's when you can beat the books.
It doesn't mean anything, other than it's interesting. Sharps tend to not put everything into one play. They systematically wager, so that bet would be one of many. They still feel good about the Browns though.
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Yeah, of course wide receivers dropped balls, and Trent Richardson didn't get many YPC, and Shurmur had horrible play calls, and the defense couldn't get it done when they needed to, but man, that Weeden sure was the big negative... 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Yeah, of course wide receivers dropped balls, and Trent Richardson didn't get many YPC, and Shurmur had horrible play calls, and the defense couldn't get it done when they needed to, but man, that Weeden sure was the big negative...
Looking at the big/large pic when the season ended, yes he was a big negative of that offense. Huge negative. Other qbs would have produced more, less batted balls, less mistakes, less everything and that is rookie or not. Sick of seeing wide open targets and Weeden not even looking their direction(s). Man the conversions of 3rd down we'd have been granted if Weeden's field vision was more "broad" and larger scope. And this is no excuse seeing the line granted Weeden clean pockets after clean pockets. Then you throw in Trent saying Weeden struggled reading defenses, and the puzzle becomes even more clear:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ading-defenses/
If the shoe fits, then... but for real it's time for Weeden to make big strides. If he cannot, we'll see his pretty smile on the bench, or under flags that being rolled out or somewhere other than behind center
He has good play caller. Offensive minded coach. Weapons at WR. Stable line. One year under his belt. what should-be a good run game. No excuses.
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 07/30/13 02:42 PM.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, although I'd like to see what he does under this offense. I do have the kind of desire that Spergon FTWynn brought up, that hopefully Weeden will at least be the "guy before the guy" (does that make Tim Couch the "guy before the guy before the guy before the guy before the guy before the guy before the guy before the guy before the guy)?
I noticed that McCoy often did not target open wide receivers when he was also running Shurmur's offense. I'm not sure if Shurmur was the problem with this in the read progressions he drew up for the quarterbacks, but I'd just like to see what Weeden now does with the current set of coaches.
He does, obviously, need to improve though.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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He played like a rookie. I said before and I'll say again that one of the reasons Weeden is being judged so harshly is because of the almost unprecedented year that Luck, RGIII, and Wilson had....
You can also throw Tannehill into the mix as well. BW was the 4th QB taken ,and he was a rookie. Add to that the "strange" offense we were running (thanks, Pat  ), and the unrealistic expectatioons, and you have a recipe for mediocrity. BW should noticeably improve this year, but don't lose sight of the fact that it's only his 2nd season...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Our defense is good. I would even go so far as to say our defense is VERY good. But, it's not the very best out there and they haven't proved themselves on the field in a real game yet. However, if Weeden can't control the ball any better then he has proven in Berea at camp then....we're in for another fine year.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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