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I put a Chris Perez poster on my door and now it won't close 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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All Pro
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GO BROWNS!
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All Pro
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That's what happens when they confiscate weed. 
GO BROWNS!
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Kluber to 15-day DL with right middle finger strain. Langwell recalled for now. He'll get sent down for Salazar tomorrow, I'm guessing.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Quote:
Kluber to 15-day DL with right middle finger strain. Langwell recalled for now. He'll get sent down for Salazar tomorrow, I'm guessing.
*Sigh* That sucks. Definitely the wrong time for the injury bug to hit our starters. With the issues our bullpen has had, we need our starters to be able to go deep into games, not sit them out entirely. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Trevor Bauer to the rescue!
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Legend
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Quote:
Kluber to 15-day DL with right middle finger strain. Langwell recalled for now. He'll get sent down for Salazar tomorrow, I'm guessing.
Did he hurt it when he extended it toward Chris Perez?
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
Kluber to 15-day DL with right middle finger strain. Langwell recalled for now. He'll get sent down for Salazar tomorrow, I'm guessing.
Did he hurt it when he extended it toward Chris Perez?
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Well .... we're now at the point where the best we can do is to exit this series no worse than we came in ...... and even that is a big question mark. We need a great performance from Salazar tomorrow to get us back on track.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm just about ready to concede the division. The Tigers have mauled us all season, now 11-3 against us. They just have better pitching and hitting, no way around it. I think we should focus on winning one of the wild cards. It is staggering how bad we have fared against the good teams, especially Detroit and the top 4 in the east. Now 9-30 against Boston, Tampa Bay, New York, Baltimore and Detroit. It's amazing we're 11 games over.
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Its like we're not even playing the same game as detroit..our offense blows...it beats up on crap teams but doesn't do squat against decent to good teams. I don't see us doing much of anything as far as playoffs this year. I think we have some nice pieces, but man did we blow money on swisher..dude gives us nothing for a bat or defense. Reynolds is who he is..we knew that.. Bourn has been solid as has rayburn. But I don't think we should have stood pat at the deadline, we really needed to buy a pen arm and a bat. And guys who say batting average don't mean anything are just fooling themselves. Look at detroit or any of the top teams and their batting averages through the heart of the lineup..then look at ours. 5 games out isn't impossible but I think it's irrelevant. Its not like we are going to all of a sudden learn how to beat good teams. I think wildcard is our best bet. get into the playoffs, shorten the rotation and hope for some october magic. That being said..I think we are on our way for next year, a little retooling and we will be much stronger next year I think. This year has just been bonus.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Yea to me Swisher and Acab have been huge disappointments. Detroit seems to be set for the next few seasons. To have any shot they have to get a cleanup hitter. I think that is a must. I think the rotation will be fine if Salazar pans out. But I definitely think Acab will be traded in the offseason. Don't know what we could get for him. I would like to think Lindor is on the fast track to joining the club sometime next year. He's been doing great in akron so far in 19 games.
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Legend
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Yeah, we started out the year taking 2 of 3 against the Tigers, IIRC ..... and it's been all downhill since then.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They're just better. They're better on paper and they're better on the field.
They have Cabrera, Fielder, Verlander, and Scherzer. We (the Indians) damn near threw a parade for Nick Swisher.
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Legend
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Quote:
They're just better. They're better on paper and they're better on the field.
They have Cabrera, Fielder, Verlander, and Scherzer. We (the Indians) damn near threw a parade for Nick Swisher.
No doubt, and I like the Swisher comment. 
None the less, the Indians seem to have a block against the Tigers. The record needs to be much closer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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They've blown a few wins against them, but for the most part, they're getting shelled. They can't pitch to the middle of their lineup, and we don't have a good enough offense to string together good innings of more than a run to keep up.
I'm not bagging on Nick Swisher. He's struggling, but he's a solid player. However, the Indians treated that signing like it was franchise-changing.
We can still go for the wild card, but it's clear we can't compete with the big dogs in the AL. Boston, Detroit, even Tampa.
So, how do we get better? Is this team going to add a player who hits over .300? We all know the window for this team to compete is closing. I just don't see how they are going to get good enough to beat those teams over the next few seasons before they start dealing guys for prospects.
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The only way the indians compete with the tigers is if they raid their farm system to fill their holes. Dombroski has made some incredible trades over the years. None bigger than getting Miguel. He also traded for Doug Fister and Anibal Sanchez. Plus this year he made some nice trades getting Veras, and Inglesias to fill in for Peralta. I know their owner loves to spend, but their Gm has made all the right moves building an all star team in a 5 year period.
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Quote:
The only way the indians compete with the tigers is if they raid their farm system to fill their holes. Dombroski has made some incredible trades over the years. None bigger than getting Miguel. He also traded for Doug Fister and Anibal Sanchez. Plus this year he made some nice trades getting Veras, and Inglesias to fill in for Peralta. I know their owner loves to spend, but their Gm has made all the right moves building an all star team in a 5 year period.
Pretty much. They have a very generous owner out there who wants to win. Not only did they make a great deal for Cabrera, but then they locked him in long term. Then they went out and got him protection with Fielder.
We can't compete with that with what we have now. My question is, how do we get better? Where's the light at the end of the tunnel?
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Unless they start spending, which I doubt, the only way is to follow the tampa bay model of drafting great talent. The only guy they locked with a big contract was Longoria. The rest they just trade off to get young players with cheap salary. It's worked for them the past 6 years. Even the pirates have turned it around with some great draft picks, and a few nice trades recently.
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That's not completely the case.
Both games that we've played against them this series, they won in one inning. They've scored 9 runs in 2 innings, and a total of 0 in the other 16.
As for the window on this team...it seems to me like its wide open. Kluger, Masterson, Salazar, and Kazmir are young guys. Only Ubaldo is older and he is gone when his contract ends.
The offense is young where it needs to be too. Kipnis, ACab, Chisenhall, Brantley, Santana, Gomes...these are all young guys. Only Bourn is over 30 of our core.
Yea Swisher, Reynolds, Giambi, and Aviles are over 30...but this core is young. The window is open on this squad.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Masterson is a free agent in 15, will be interesting to see if they pony up the cash to resign him.
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Much of our starting pitching is younger too.
Masterson is 28. McAllister is 25, Kluber is 27. Salazar (who I really like) is only 23. Tomlin is reportedly making good progress following his surgery, and is 28. He could be back with the Tribe in late August. I like him as a #5.
That could be a nice starting 5 ...... plus we have guys like Carrasco and Bauer in the Minors, who have shown promise, but just haven't yet put it all together. Both guys have great stuff though.
We gotta get the bullpen back in order though. Getting Scott Barnes back from injury might be a step in the right direction. He's a solid lefty. Getting Pestano back on track would be huge for this team. It would also be nice if we could get Hagadone straightened back out. Relief pitchers are a strange lot though .... and the same guys who killed us this year might be our saviors next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
That's not completely the case.
Both games that we've played against them this series, they won in one inning. They've scored 9 runs in 2 innings, and a total of 0 in the other 16.
As for the window on this team...it seems to me like its wide open. Kluger, Masterson, Salazar, and Kazmir are young guys. Only Ubaldo is older and he is gone when his contract ends.
The offense is young where it needs to be too. Kipnis, ACab, Chisenhall, Brantley, Santana, Gomes...these are all young guys. Only Bourn is over 30 of our core.
Yea Swisher, Reynolds, Giambi, and Aviles are over 30...but this core is young. The window is open on this squad.
We've scored 3 runs in 2 games, and we still get to face Scherzer.
Kipnis, Brantley, Cabrera, those are nice pieces, but will another year or two of seasoning really put that lineup above the Tigers? That's my point. That team isn't going away.
It just sounds like we will be having this exact same conversation next year.
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Well, with the new CBA, you have to give up draft picks in exchange for signing certain free agents. (and I am too lazy to look up what the criteria is, and how the polls of picks is divided up among teams losing free agents. I know it's not a straight one for one exchange) Teams still have to use the draft to build the bulk of their rosters, so I wonder how many free agents will be signed by teams in the future. (especially the "good but not great" ones) We didn't have to give up our 1st round pick for signing Swisher because of our draft position, and I doubt that we would have signed him if we would have had to do so.
I do think that free agency will become less important, at least as far as the mid range free agents that will cost draft picks are concerned. The upper level guys will still find buyers, even if they cost 1st round draft picks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
We've scored 3 runs in 2 games, and we still get to face Scherzer.
Kipnis, Brantley, Cabrera, those are nice pieces, but will another year or two of seasoning really put that lineup above the Tigers? That's my point. That team isn't going away.
It just sounds like we will be having this exact same conversation next year.
The Indians are top 5 in runs scored in all of baseball and something like top 12 in batting average and 11 in home runs... The Tigers just happen to be above them in all 3 categories plus the Tigers are well ahead of them in team ERA....
Overall I think the Indians are in pretty good shape and might just need a little tweaking...
yebat' Putin
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j/c
You know what's a tough pill to swallow in these first two games?.....keeping them scoreless 16 of the 18 innings played thus far, yet we've been outscored 9-3 and down in the series 0-2.
That's rough.
Tackles are tackles.
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It's a good point. But if we can find production from other spots...then yes. If Swish and Reynolds were replaced with hitters that can do what they were brought here to do...then we'd be able to make big time strides.
If our 1B spot was filled by a big hitter...the offense would hum. If the RF spot was filled with a hitter, the offense would hum.
The team right now has solid pieces...that one to put the offense over, the big home run threat...that's what they lack. Find it, and we have a very different conversation
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
It's a good point. But if we can find production from other spots...then yes. If Swish and Reynolds were replaced with hitters that can do what they were brought here to do...then we'd be able to make big time strides.
If our 1B spot was filled by a big hitter...the offense would hum. If the RF spot was filled with a hitter, the offense would hum.
The team right now has solid pieces...that one to put the offense over, the big home run threat...that's what they lack. Find it, and we have a very different conversation
Kinda crazy that we have done OK this season (aside from games against DET) despite a lack of production from 1B and 3B which is usually where you get good pop.
I'm OK with what the outfield gives you. They're excellent in chasing down fly balls (although Stubbs can drive you crazy) and the provide good speed in the lineup, and Brantley is rock solid all around, but you can't have Swisher and Chisenhall/Reynolds whiffing at everything. Both are pretty good on defense, but you need something better there in the lineup.
Since Friday, the striking out is also ridiculous. I understand it's good pitching, especially that young arm down in Miami, but these are humiliating themselves out there.
They've scored 10 runs in their last 5.
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j/c
well another crap game from the indians, Salazar has a nice fastball, but thats it, his changeup sucks..he's going to need another pitch to have any staying power. He's got the perfect makeup for a closer. Crazy good fastball.. Tito gambled and cost salazar the chance at the win. You dont gamble on Mcab going 0-4.. once again our offense just can't score. Played them tough, but it seems no matter what, tigers will beat us. frustrating
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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were making it real tough on em
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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What a great block by Gomes to save a WP, and a run.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think that Salazar has a decent change-up. His fastball is electric, and he gets tremendous movement on it.
He made one mistake, and got thumped for a HR. He went 7 innings, struck out 10, and only walked 1. That's great, especially against a talented lineup like the Tigers have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If you watch Salazar, his change-up is his weakest pitch so far. That's the one pitch he gets beat up on. Save for the Cabrera HR.
IMO, if there is one pitch Salazar needs to develop it's the change-up. Having said that, he looks to have a bright future. Should replace Jimenez.
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Legend
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Quote:
Masterson is 28. McAllister is 25, Kluber is 27. Salazar (who I really like) is only 23. Tomlin is reportedly making good progress following his surgery, and is 28. He could be back with the Tribe in late August. I like him as a #5.
That could be a nice starting 5
McAllister, Kluber, and Tomlin are all #4 or #5 pitchers. Masterson is an O.K. #2. That is not a nice starting 5.
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I don't see McAllister and Kluber as 4s or 5s at all. I think that's ridiculous.
KLuber has changed his grip on his fastball, and he has been very good since. He's got a solid curveball to go along with a nice fastball. His pitches move. He doesn't walk guys. I see him as a #3, at the least .... and he could become a #2.
McAllister might be more of a #4 guy ..... but he's a solid 4. He might become a 3 in time. I like a lot about the way he pitches. My biggest problem with him right now is that he walks too many guys. He's not a strike out pitcher, which is what I think a lot of people associate with a 2 or 3 ..... but if he cuts down his walks I think that he can become a solid 3.
I do agree that Tomlin is a #5, but probably a solid #5. I am interested to see how his velocity is after his arm surgery.
Masterson has an off game now and then, but he has been nothing short of outstanding this season. He goes deep in games, and averages more than a strike out per inning pitched. He is almost at a 3-1 ratio strike outs to walks. That's outstanding. He averages almost 7 innings per start. He has an ERA of 3.46. He is tied for 5th in wins in all of MLB. He is 4th in innings pitched. He is 6th in strike outs. What is it about him that makes you see him as only an "OK #2"?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Salazar pitched a great game. When you throw that hard, you're going to give some up. It's not like he pitched against the houston astros.
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Not to be vindictive, but have we dusted off Miguel Cabrera even once this year? Because I'm getting a little tired of watching him abuse our pitchers like rented mules. I wouldn't even mind if someone left a baseball stitches imprint on his left buttcheek. Just to change the pace, and give him something to think about - he's way too comfortable at the plate against us.
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Quote:
Not to be vindictive, but have we dusted off Miguel Cabrera even once this year? Because I'm getting a little tired of watching him abuse our pitchers like rented mules. I wouldn't even mind if someone left a baseball stitches imprint on his left buttcheek. Just to change the pace, and give him something to think about - he's way too comfortable at the plate against us.
He's abused every pitcher he's faced for the last year and a half. He's the best hitter in baseball. It's not just against us.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Legend
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6 HR's, just this year against us. 19 HR's since 2010. Thats crazy. We'd be better off walking him, even with men on base.
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