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Sorry if I missed it, Cal. Gilkey seems well liked by the coaches' comments; he has obviously impressed the group and you as well. I am curious, what is the man bringing to the position the others lack or that he does better? We have had some lame guard play IMO since Steiny left. What makes him beat out the others in your opinion to nab the starter's job?
Size, attitude and a mean streak. He obviously has a lot to learn from a technique standpoint, but IMHO he brings an aggressiveness that compliments Joe, Mack & Miller immensely. 
I agree with that. He has tools that you cannot teach, and now he just needs to learn the ones that can be taught. Evidently he and Taylor have had a few heavy duty wars in practices. (even after the whistle)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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LINKMontario Hardesty's Cleveland Browns roster spot in jeopardy as health issues linger By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer August 06, 2013 at 9:07 PM BEREA, Ohio -- Browns running back Montario Hardesty's roster spot is in jeopardy, but if he can get healthy, he'll still have a decent chance to make the team, sources close to the situation have told Cleveland.com. Unfortunately for Hardesty, he's missed most of training camp with an inflamed hamstring tendon, and time is running short. "It presents a great challenge for us,'' said running backs coach John Settle. "He's a young man that has shown flashes of what he can be -- what he was last year what we would hope he'd be in 2013. But not having him, it does hurt his advancement and it hurts us as a team.'' Settle acknowledged that it'll be a little tougher now for Hardesty given all the competition at the position. "But is it impossible? No,'' said Settle. "That decision is way above my head, but he's a young man that enjoys playing the game and wants to be out there. For us to be the best we can be, we need to have him out there. We have confidence in the fact that he knows what he's doing and we can trust him. (But) it makes it a little tough to evaluate him with the other guys that are out there and continuing to improve.'' When the new coaches studied Hardesty's 2012 film, they were excited. Finally healthy, Hardesty hit the holes fast and averaged a decent 4.2 yards per carry in his limited chances, rushing 65 times for 271 yards. "You saw his productivity. He was back to his old ways,'' said Settle. "His acceleration was there, he was fast. You hoped he was past his injuries. We had high hopes coming into camp, then he has a setback. We want him back out there as soon as possible, but we've got to be smart about it.'' Settle said Hardesty was originally slated for the backup role behind Trent Richardson until newcomer Dion Lewis began to impress. The Browns acquired Lewis (5-8, 195) in a trade with the Eagles for linebacker Emmanuel Acho. "All of a sudden we saw that Dion was hard to tackle and had an opportunity to make big plays for us when we got him out in space. But I think all of those three guys -- Trent, Montario and Dion -- will complement each other in various ways and will really stretch defenses and force them to defend the whole field. When the lights come on and its real, we'll see what we get. Unfortunately for Montario, he won't be able to play this week.'' Hardesty is hoping that he did enough in organized team activities and minicamp. "Not being able to be out there and play, you wonder, do they remember this or remember that?'' he said. Hardesty acknowledged that it's hard to sit and watch. "We have guys that can play, we all know that,'' Hardesty said. "I want to be out there, so it's just frustrating for me. I know what I can do when I'm out there, I just need to get on the field. This is what I do for a living, and I want to be out there doing it.'' He's been impressed with all of the backs in camp, including Chris Ogbonnaya, who's playing both fullback and tailback. "Obie is showing he can do multiple things and Dion is a hard guy to tackle in the open field and can catch the ball,'' said Hardesty. "(Jackson) has come on strong in the last week. It's a good competition. But there's no doubt I can make this team if I can show them what I can do. I feel like once I get back out there, everything will sort itself out.'' Hardesty's promising 2012 came after missing his entire rookie year with a torn anterior cruciate ligament and almost half of 2011 with a torn calf muscle. "I think last year, people were just starting to see what I could really do,'' he said. "I was just starting to scratch the surface and be the player they drafted. I want to continue to build on that. I know I'm as good as any running back in the league when I'm healthy.'' Hardesty tested the hamstring one day last week, but it flared up. "I wasn't ready to go yet,'' he said. "This is the NFL and you want to have a roster full of good players,'' he said. "I played with great running backs in college, including Arian Foster. I proved I'm right up there with him.'' Settle said the best backs will make the team, and that it will play out over the next four weeks. "If everybody gets healthy and stays healthy from here on out, we could have some very tough decisions to make,'' he said.
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Yep sounds like Dion Lewis is making a good push. We have a crowded group of running backs, Hardesty is truly killing his chances by not being out there. Personally though I could care less who the #2 RB is going to be, as long as it's the best player to give us the BEST chance of success. If not, then move to special teams or move off this roster!
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Sorry if I missed it, Cal. Gilkey seems well liked by the coaches' comments; he has obviously impressed the group and you as well. I am curious, what is the man bringing to the position the others lack or that he does better? We have had some lame guard play IMO since Steiny left. What makes him beat out the others in your opinion to nab the starter's job?
Size, attitude and a mean streak. He obviously has a lot to learn from a technique standpoint, but IMHO he brings an aggressiveness that compliments Joe, Mack & Miller immensely.
I agree with that. He has tools that you cannot teach, and now he just needs to learn the ones that can be taught. Evidently he and Taylor have had a few heavy duty wars in practices. (even after the whistle)
Gotta love that kind of fire (on both sides of the ball). Haven't seen enough of that from this team in recent years.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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If Hardesty is on the bubble, then I at least hope he gets healthy enough to finish training camp with some time on the field. It would be good to see him make it until the final cut down with the hopes that another team ends up needing an RB and is willing to offer a little something for him. Hate to see him go though, he was a bright spot in a dismal year last year.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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richardson displayed good to excellent durability only missing one game.
theres a difference between toughness, and durability.
if you have a vehicle that easily/often has parts break on it, but still manages to run, albeit not as advertised, you would NOT call that vehicle durable.
an electric screw driver that is supposed to be able to drill screws in to 2x4s, but the battery/motor quickly weakened, but the screwdriver still manages to work 100% of the time, so long as you are only screwing screws in to drywall, not wood, does not make that screw driver durable.
i'll give richardson credit for being a tough SOB for playing with broken ribs, but he is NOT durable. he has sustained injury after injury, and until he can go an entire season, or hell, and entire OFFSEASON, without getting injured, he should not be considered durable.
set down the koolaid.
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While I do agree with you in principal, the NFL is pretty much "not for long" if you can't stay healthy and produce.
It is a business and they are dealt with based on production. Much like Hardesty being on the bubble now. I really don't question his passion for the game or desire to play. And he actually had an average of more YPC than TRich had last year.
I see your point and I'm really not disagreeing with what you're saying. But in the multi-billion dollar NFL business, staying healthy and being productive affects every players career at some point.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Thanks, Cal. Browns could use a few Hacksaw type of players if they are to turn it up and turn the corner. Wasn't overly impressed with Lava, especially the flags he carried around. I will watch Gilkey closely in the pre's. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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If Hardesty is on the bubble, then I at least hope he gets healthy enough to finish training camp with some time on the field. It would be good to see him make it until the final cut down with the hopes that another team ends up needing an RB and is willing to offer a little something for him. Hate to see him go though, he was a bright spot in a dismal year last year.
I agree Cal. I know that I don't like to see any player cut because he was injured and couldn't lay it on the line.
I think Hardesty or Jackson makes the team, the other cut.
TR, Obie, and Lewis are locks barring a injury or punching a coach in the face, so it boils down to how many backs the team wants to keep. Four for sure, maybe 5, but if we go 5 I would almost think one would have to be one of the traditional fullbacks and not just Obie who I still consider more of a hybred type back.
It could be that Smelly who is playing more at TE would be kept, knowing they could swing him to FB if needed.
At this point, I think Jackson makes the team as he seems to be more reliable from a health standpoint, and frankly has more of a NFL resume then does Hardesty. I'd have no real problem with Jackson headed in to a game or two as the fill-in starter. He did a pretty decent job with GB the year before we signed him. He gained a little over 700 on the ground and caught over 40 passes.
Those are good numbers for a guy you have as a bench/back-up player. A coach can work with that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c
I agree that I see Hardesty OR Jackson sticking, but not both. It would also be helpful if Ogby can offer us a quality FB spot; it might save a position.
The group that I am interested in is the WR corp. Obviously Gordon, Little, Benjamin, and Bess are the 4 locks. But then we have Norwood, Cooper, Gurley, Nelson, and Roberson who all have some intriguing aspects.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Norwood and Nelson stick...we get one more for 2 games...idk who that will be. I got a sneaking suspicion that Gurley could be that guy
Also...don't forget Croom too.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I guess I'll straddle the fence here...
I want to be very clear about this. Disappointed doesn't equate to me thinking he sucks.
I think he has talent. He looked more solid than spectacular to me. That doesn't mean I think he isn't a worthwhile player.
I simply expected more.
I do think he has the potential to be great. I love when I hear glowing reports about him from other people in the game. I hope he achieves that type of status.
I believe that this board is so divided into camps that people often misconstrue what others are saying. I do NOT think he sucks. I am NOT saying we should cut him. I am NOT saying he doesn't have potential to be great. I AM saying that I was disappointed in his yards per carry last year and his indecisive running.
The ribs will be brought up again. I am a bit skeptical of that story. Broken ribs are serious. Like someone else said, it hurts to laugh. Sneezing is a killer. TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs.
I think his issues were that he really didn't display good instincts. I blame that partially on playing behind Alabama's OL, who dominated most of the time. Ingram, who started ahead of TRich and won the Heisman, has been disappointing and mediocre in the pros. There is something to that.
I do believe that TRich is more explosive than Ingram. And he did make some breath-taking runs. He catches well. I am hoping he progresses tremendously and I think he can. Me saying that I was disappointed thus far does NOT mean I think he sucks. Hope I was clear this time.
Oh, and PDR...........this post wasn't really to you. I just used your quote as a spring board.
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I never thought you thought he sucked...just for the record.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I really dont know how he could do all that dancing with broken ribs for 16 weeks. The rib thing is an excuse for a guy being indecisive imho. That has nothing to do with what my expectations are but its is just an honest opinion of what I saw to often last year.
Love the kid and feel he can be a star but he has to learn basic math in that a +1 is much better than a -2. Lower your head trust your line and get what you can.
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I really dont know how he could do all that dancing with broken ribs for 16 weeks. The rib thing is an excuse for a guy being indecisive imho. That has nothing to do with what my expectations are but its is just an honest opinion of what I saw to often last year.
Love the kid and feel he can be a star but he has to learn basic math in that a +1 is much better than a -2. Lower your head trust your line and get what you can.
On the other hand, sometimes -1 is better, as in Franco Harris. In many cases injuries happen trying to gain that last yard.
Unless the game is on the line, I have no problem with a back slipping out of bounds or folding under in a manner that doesn't break bones.
You have to be smart about it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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NRTU
I'm incredibly confused by anyone being disappointed in TRich to this point.
the man ran for 950 yards and 11 TDs...both rookie records. He played 9 games with broken ribs, and he accounted for 12 TDs...on a team that scored 42ish TDs...that's an absurdly high percentage. SJax had his worst seasons with Shurmur at the helm...the guy has horrible blocking schemes for a run game...
TRich a disappointment? cuz hes had 3 injuries? One wasn't even an injury as it was surgery to clean up the knee, the other he played through, and this one has had him missing Training Camp and maybe the first preseason game...which is better, because we have 4 other RBs that need reps.
Whats the issue? He's had a few injuries? So what...he's missed NO time that is of ANY value to his career. He's missed 0 regular season games (save for the last one last year which was a coaches decision not his). So...1 I guess...but cmon...
Disappointing? Concerning...I'll give ya, sure...but disappointing? Never.
PLUS 1
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Wow, comping a man to a car?
In football, most all players play injured or dinged up or hurting on some part of their body. Some of the best to ever play the game played injured.. Just the way it is.
A car doesn't have a heart, a car doesn't have passion for the game.
You can't compare the two and get me to buy into it. not for a second.
i guess thats where we disagree. i dont think having a heart has anything to do with DURABILITY. looking at a players heart, his toughness and refusal to throw in the towel, all that, i dont think that has to do with durability. Perhaps we just have a different definition of the word.
I will never question trich's figurative heart for the game, but to me, durability only has to do with ones physical ability to stay healthy.
du·ra·ble (dr-bl, dyr-)
adj.
1. Capable of withstanding wear and tear or decay: a durable fabric.
2. Able to perform or compete over a long period, as by avoiding or overcoming injuries: a durable fullback.
3. Lasting; stable: a durable friendship.
4. Economics Not depleted or consumed by use: durable goods.
regardless of his fortitude, trent richardson does not have a durable body. his body does not withstand wear and tear. if it did, he would not have had surgery after surgery to repair damage sustained by playing the game.
but to be clear, i think the dude is awesome and he is one of my favorite browns players.
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I agree that I see Hardesty OR Jackson sticking, but not both.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think Jackson plays special teams and Hardesty doesn't? Is that a tie breaker if all else is equal?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Id say yes.
Also...I look at it as what does each guy bring...
TRich is ur bell cow 3 down back. He does everything a back is expected to do.
Lewis is our scat back...our Darren Sproles type. Quick shifty guy.
BJax is our 3rd down back. Great pass blocker, solid runner...was great in GB on draw plays. can catch...
What does Hardesty do that these guys don't do? He doesn't catch passes well historically, hes not a quick scat back...he isn't a great blocker 3rd down back guy...
Hes a poorer version of TRich with worse hands...hes a little quicker, but, hes a 3 down back...not a 3rd down or scat...where does he fit in?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Id say yes.
Also...I look at it as what does each guy bring...
TRich is ur bell cow 3 down back. He does everything a back is expected to do.
Lewis is our scat back...our Darren Sproles type. Quick shifty guy.
BJax is our 3rd down back. Great pass blocker, solid runner...was great in GB on draw plays. can catch...
What does Hardesty do that these guys don't do? He doesn't catch passes well historically, hes not a quick scat back...he isn't a great blocker 3rd down back guy...
Hes a poorer version of TRich with worse hands...hes a little quicker, but, hes a 3 down back...not a 3rd down or scat...where does he fit in?
for arguments sake, hardesty is a one cut back. he hits the hole more decisively than trent does. hes just more of a downhill runner.
but i do think he will be the odd man out.
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I'm not a trained eye, but I'm amazed by the love Hardesty gets on here.
He was effective last year. More so than in his previous years. He also hit holes harder than TRich and with more explosion. He was a nice spell to TRich, and I would love if he continued on with the team if he can stay healthy.
At the same time, the 'eye test' tells me that while he had nice moments last year he doesn't possess anywhere near the potential as TRich. He's a dime a dozen back while TRich has the chance to be special. I'm not trying to take anything away from Hardesty ... I just don't get the fascination with him to the point that people actually preferred him over TRich last year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I like what Hardesty showed last year as a one cut back. He found the hole, and went full bore. I think that there is value in a guy who can move the chains like that.
That said, if Lewis and Jackson prove to be more valuable in all aspects of playing the game, then they probably will, and should, stick ahead of Hardesty.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I believe that this board is so divided into camps that people often misconstrue what others are saying.
How come you are the only one who thinks there are "camps?"
I think you calling out these camps is your weird way of getting attention.
Odd.
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I agree that I see Hardesty OR Jackson sticking, but not both.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think Jackson plays special teams and Hardesty doesn't? Is that a tie breaker if all else is equal?
No doubt it is. You had to ask? 
I understand you were making a point, and a good one.
It will be interesting to see how it pans out. As I said earlier, I hope Hardesty is on the mend and has a chance to lose the job on the field rather than lose the job because he wasn't able to show the staff what he has or lacks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Again? I think you think too much. I think you look for reasons to criticize people. I think you are delusional if you don't see that people takes sides in arguments around here.
You really never noticed the sides when there were debates on Weeden and McCoy?
You really never noticed the sides on the various regimes?
There are ALWAYS sides in our debates. Then, there are guys like you who come around simply to critique another poster.
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The ribs will be brought up again. I am a bit skeptical of that story. Broken ribs are serious. Like someone else said, it hurts to laugh. Sneezing is a killer. TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs.
vers...so now you are calling into to question Richardson's claim about playing with broken ribs?
...you are basically saying Richardson is lying about playing with broken ribs.
...and as proof to support your claim, you say this..."TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs."
You do realize, players get shots or take pain pills so they can play...that still happens and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if TR used pain killers to help him endure the pain.
Honestly, whether TR took pain killers or not, is not the issue. From the football players perspective, if your playing hurt, you do your best to ignore the pain and some have a much higher pain threshold than the average human.
Regardless of how TR played with broken ribs..I do not find it shocking nor do I question his truthfulness.
The fact that TR "sought out" contact tells me that he did not change his running style due to his broken ribs..that is a good thing.
If a player has a painful injury, it's going to hurt regardless if he delivers the hit or takes the hit. I've always felt that it was better to deliver the hit rather than take the hit...so I'm not the least bit surprised that TR sought out contact.
Was TR playing at 100% while playing through the rib injury...I seriously doubt it.
Did TR use the injury as an excuse to stand on the sidelines...NO.
The man gave his best effort...no doubt in my mind...I have no reason to question Trent Richardson's honesty.
Last edited by mac; 08/08/13 09:23 AM.
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didnt they say he was wearing a special kevlar vest to protect those ribs? thats beast mode for sure.
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He was also shot full of pain medication.
If he was receiving Toradol, I can tell you from 1st hand experience, it's highly effective. For ordinary people, though, it's usually not given on a weekly basis. (though I wish it could be, it's the only thing that has ever calmed the pain in my back) My doctors recommend no more than 2-3 shots/year, and it usually lasts a week or 2. It's joyous when I get the shots though.
With Toradol, (and/or other strong pain drugs) I could see him playing with damaged ribs without issue. The main thing at that point would be to monitor him for further damage. (and regular pee tests to make sure that his kidney's aren't affected by the stuff)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've never thought him the best since Peterson, and really haven't seen him described as such, though it wouldn't shock he if you could pull up some article stating such.
Leading up to the draft, a bunch of wags had him as 'the best prospect since Peterson', since then, not so much.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I've never thought him the best since Peterson, and really haven't seen him described as such, though it wouldn't shock he if you could pull up some article stating such.
Leading up to the draft, a bunch of wags had him as 'the best prospect since Peterson', since then, not so much.
Yup, even I, who never pays any attention to pre-draft talk, heard him referred to as this regularly.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Dawg Talker
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jc, nrtu
so let me understand this the feeling of some here is
TRich is a borderline fail because of where he was drafted, how he was drafted, the fact he played in a shoddy offense and a play caller from pee wee football, a defense that could not get off the field, a QB that was suspect, becaus ehe was not as god as other runing backs, he was not the next AP and now because he really did not have broken ribs, rather he made that up...OTAY
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I've never thought him the best since Peterson, and really haven't seen him described as such, though it wouldn't shock he if you could pull up some article stating such.
Leading up to the draft, a bunch of wags had him as 'the best prospect since Peterson', since then, not so much.
Yup, even I, who never pays any attention to pre-draft talk, heard him referred to as this regularly.
Let's be honest. Coming out of college, which running back was as highly touted as Richardson since Peterson was drafted, and what running back was drafted as high as Richardson? He was considered the best prospect since AP.
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Practice Squad
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jc, nrtu
so let me understand this the feeling of some here is
TRich is a borderline fail because of where he was drafted, how he was drafted, the fact he played in a shoddy offense and a play caller from pee wee football, a defense that could not get off the field, a QB that was suspect, becaus ehe was not as god as other runing backs, he was not the next AP and now because he really did not have broken ribs, rather he made that up...OTAY
firstly, theres a difference between being a failure, and being disappointing. he didnt choose where he was drafted, and i agree with those who believe draft position should not matter when it comes to depth charts and all that. i dont care if a guy was drafted in the first round, if hes sucking, and the guy behind him who was drafte din the 6th, the guy in the 6th should play. But when discussing if some one is disappointing, where they were drafted becomes relevant. If you spent a lot on a player you have expectations for that player. Thats just how it is. You draft a player based on expectations you have of them. I EXPECT mingo to be able to get 8+ sacks this season. If he only gets 4 sacks, i WILL be disappointed.
blaming the offense and playcalling is a cop out. Stephen jackson managed to put up an additional yard per carry than trich did (after 7 years in the league), under the same playcalling.
as for the defense, that doesnt mean anything either, whether a player has 200 carries or 350 carries in a season, its what he does with those carries that result in the YPC. Personally im pretty happy with his TDs, but his YPC was sub par.
As for him faking broken ribs, that was an out of left field comment by one guy. The real discussion is by the camp that believes that trent was disappointing-- and i feel that its a legitimate claim.
I just cant believe that if you were not a browns fan, that you wouldnt be looking at trents rookie season a bit differently. If the squeelers had moved up in the draft from 4th overall to 3rd overall, to pick a runningback who ran for 3.6 yards per carry. He had knee surgery making him miss his first preseason and some camp rookie year. he then went 5 games without injury (3.7 YPC avg in those games), before breaking 2 ribs against the bungholes (3.5 YPC rest of season). He then had a high ankle sprain in the second to the last game, making him miss the last game of the season. Minicamp he pulls a muscle making him miss that. Now he is missing preseason, albeit a bit more precautionary than anything...
You really wouldnt look at a runningback being picked that high by our most hated rival, having a 3.6 YPC rookie season, and having injury issues constantly-- any differently? I dont believe that to be true.
I believe we as fans should be able to say trent richardson had a disappointing rookie season, and some very concerning issues with regard to injuries, without being negative or unfair to the guy. as ive said, trent is one of my favorite players. He has huge heart, his mental fortitude is amazing and inspiring, and i think he is a leader. I think he has potential to be an amazing running back in this league. i think he can live up to his pre draft hype. But that doesnt mean i am not concerned that all of those things could mean nothing long term, if the guy cant stay healthy.
We spent a lot to draft hardesty, he had a ton of potential coming in to this league, but its been extremely disappointing that his injuries have kept him from reaching his potential. His career has been disappointing as a result of that.
Both hardesty and trent richardson have not lived up to their potential, due to injuries. If either trent of hardesty can remain 100% healthy for the next 5+ years, i believe either one of them could be great runningbacks for 5+ years. But the thing is, we arent going to see either one of those players playing tonight, because they have not been able to remain 100% healthy.
How can anyone in the "trent hasnt been a disappointment" camp argue this?
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Obviously there are different sides to each argument, but you make it seem like there are groups of people who conspire to pick on you. (You are not that special).
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,845 Likes: 159 |
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While I do agree with you in principal, the NFL is pretty much "not for long" if you can't stay healthy and produce.
It is a business and they are dealt with based on production. Much like Hardesty being on the bubble now. I really don't question his passion for the game or desire to play. And he actually had an average of more YPC than TRich had last year.
I see your point and I'm really not disagreeing with what you're saying. But in the multi-billion dollar NFL business, staying healthy and being productive affects every players career at some point.
JMHO
No question that this is a Not for long league if you don't or can't produce. I just don't agree with comparing Richardson to a car? Cars don't have heart.
Hey,, one thing that bothers me a little, why do I keep hearing from posters that Hardesty is on the bubble? Did I miss the briefing by the Browns? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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Obviously there are different sides to each argument, but you make it seem like there are groups of people who conspire to pick on you. (You are not that special).
me?
im talkin football, i dont take any of this personally.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
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I mean...whether he was touted as the best since Peterson or not... http://www.nfl.com/player/adrianpeterson/2507164/careerstatsYear Team G Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM 2007 Minnesota Vikings 14 238 17.0 1,341 5.6 95.8 12 73T 62 26.1 11 5 4 Receiving Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM 2007 Minnesota Vikings 14 19 268 14.1 19.1 60T 1 3 1 13 0 http://www.nfl.com/player/trentrichardson/2533032/careerstatsYear Team G Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM 2012 Cleveland Browns 15 267 17.8 950 3.6 63.3 11 32T 36 13.5 2 0 3 Receiving Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM 2012 Cleveland Browns 15 51 367 7.2 24.5 27 1 5 0 18 0 For comparisons sake, he doesn't match up sure...This was both of their rookie years. TDs are the same essentially. Total yards, and YPG, and YPC are down for Trent. But lets look at the offenses... Minnesota Vikings 2007 OVERALL PASSING Pts Yds Plays Yds/P TO FL 1stPy 1stD Cmp Att Yds TD INT Y/A 1stD Team Offense 365 5379 964 5.6 30 16 24 294 249 432 2745 12 14 5.8 139 RUSHING MISC Att Yds TD YPC 1stD #Dr Sc% TO% Avg Start Avg Dr Plays Yards Pts 494 2634 22 5.3 131 190 28.4 15.3 Own 28.0 2:29 5.2 28.2 1.6 Cleveland Browns 2012 OVERALL PASSING Pts Yds Plays Yds/P TO FL 1stPy 1stD Cmp Att Yds TD INT Y/A 1stD Team Offense 302 5028 998 5.0 26 8 23 279 328 566 3435 16 18 5.7 185 RUSHING MISC Att Yds TD YPC 1stD #Dr Sc% TO% Avg Start Avg Dr Plays Yards Pts 396 1593 12 4.0 71 191 29.8 12.0 Own 29.3 2:22 5.4 26.2 1.5 They went 8-8, we went 5-11...We threw 130 passes and they ran just shy of 100 more times. The teams actually had pretty similar seasons on offense save for the disparity in run/pass ratio. Trent had 400 less yards and 2.0 YPC less in more carries. Okay...he didn't quite match up... Does that make Trent a disappointment? Looking at it kinda, from a statistical standpoint. Eye test...kid is a beast, and ran like a beast because of how hard he went. Yes he was tentative, but I think that was the entire offense. I'm not going to make any determination on Trent until I see what he does this season. He set rookie records here, and points-wise...he was right there. 400 less yards on the ground, but same amount of TDs... I don't much have a point to make...but those are the comparisons...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,845 Likes: 159
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,845 Likes: 159 |
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Wow, comping a man to a car?
In football, most all players play injured or dinged up or hurting on some part of their body. Some of the best to ever play the game played injured.. Just the way it is.
A car doesn't have a heart, a car doesn't have passion for the game.
You can't compare the two and get me to buy into it. not for a second.
i guess thats where we disagree. i dont think having a heart has anything to do with DURABILITY. looking at a players heart, his toughness and refusal to throw in the towel, all that, i dont think that has to do with durability. Perhaps we just have a different definition of the word.
I will never question trich's figurative heart for the game, but to me, durability only has to do with ones physical ability to stay healthy.
du·ra·ble (dr-bl, dyr-)
adj.
1. Capable of withstanding wear and tear or decay: a durable fabric.
2. Able to perform or compete over a long period, as by avoiding or overcoming injuries: a durable fullback.
3. Lasting; stable: a durable friendship.
4. Economics Not depleted or consumed by use: durable goods.
regardless of his fortitude, trent richardson does not have a durable body. his body does not withstand wear and tear. if it did, he would not have had surgery after surgery to repair damage sustained by playing the game.
but to be clear, i think the dude is awesome and he is one of my favorite browns players.
LOL Thanks for doing the "Funk and Wagnals" on me
I think a player without the heart to play can be perfectly healthy and not succeed. I also believe that a player that has the skills and the heart will succeed WHILE injured.
You can measure durability any way you like, but with respect to football and playing the game, I measure it in terms of what a player can accomplish while injured..
That has nothing to do with a car!
I hope your right about him being a beast.. that's what I want to see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
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12 total tds and 11 on the ground...that's production we haven't seen in a long long long time at the RB spot
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 4,544 |
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12 total tds and 11 on the ground...that's production we haven't seen in a long long long time at the RB spot
yea since 2010.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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