DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Not Sold On Weeden?

You can dribble drool, or dribble a basketball, when you spew drivel though .......

However, if you do all 3 ..... then you're doing some serious multitasking.



I would like to apologize in advance for any I offend with the previous statement .... such as someone who is incapable of doing all 3 simultaneously .... or even maybe even 2 of them in a synchronous manner. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, or offended them in any way.

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Word is ..... that yes, he did.

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Years ago, we had a poster whose sig was a publicity headshot of Roger. The caption: "He looks like he's thinking... but then you read the articles..."


Classic.

If you wanted to trade a guy would you devalue him by waffling on his #1 status first? If it was me, and I wanted to trade him, I'd be awarding the job to him and talking him up in the media til the cows came home.

It's to the point it isn't even worth discussing.

My hat is off to anyone who can casually work the word "effusive" into a discussion here. Props and a gold star from an olde English instructor. Effusive, indeed. And without obfuscating his point at all!

Cleveland Browns OC Norv Turner excited about Brandon Weeden and sees no negatives

By Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio -- Never mind that it's only preseason. Browns offensive coordinator Norv Turner is thrilled with Brandon Weeden so far and hopes the fans are too.

"Well, I'm excited,'' he said. "Our players are excited. I hope our fans are excited. I’m a realist. I know that you can only control what you’re going against. We've played the Rams, we’ve played Detroit, and they gave us more than people think. Both teams blitzed us and we handled it well. Both teams mixed the coverages pretty good and I thought we handled it well. We just have to continue to prepare for the regular season. I don’t think we’re going to complete 75 percent of our passes in the regular season, but we’re doing it now and that’s something to build on.''

In six series of work, Weeden has produced two field goals and three touchdown passes. He's completed 18-of-25 attempts for 229 yards, with three TDs and no interceptions for a 139.8 rating. The mark is second in the NFL only to Seattle's Tarvaris Jackson's 156.2. Weeden's also completed five passes of 20 yards or more.

"I'm excited about what Brandon’s been able to do,'' said Turner. "The thing that we’ve spent a lot of time working on is trying to find out the things that he does best and combine them with the things that our players do best. Hopefully when we get into games, we’re able to feature the things that all our guys do best, and through the preseason action that Brandon’s had, we’ve been able to that.''

Despite that, Turner didn't think coach Rob Chudzinski was crazy last week when he called the quarterback race "still close.'' Against the Lions, second-teamer Jason Campbell completed 12-of-14 attempts for 106 yards with one TD and no interceptions for a 122.0 rating. Overall, his 85.7 completion percentage is tied for eighth in the NFL -- but second only to New England's Tom Brady among quarterbacks with 20 more attempts.

"I think Chud was being extremely honest with you,'' said Turner. "I do believe Jason has played at a high enough level to say that it's close. How you phrase it or how you say it, I don’t know that that matters. I think we’re heading in the direction we want to be. I really believe first of all that Chud’s done an unbelievable job with this entire football team in terms of letting them know exactly what we want to get done, how we’re going to get that done and where we’re headed.

"I think he explained his plan to the quarterbacks from the start. He stuck with it. It’s not an issue in that building. I know it’s an issue outside the building. But I don’t think anyone is worried about when an announcement is going to be made, and I think we’ve got great production from all three quarterbacks (including Brian Hoyer). So whatever the plan was that we’ve put together, it seems to be working.”

Turner's been encouraged by Weeden's accuracy on the deep ball this season, including those five completions of 20-plus yards. Last season, Weeden finished 26th in the NFL with a 31.6 completion percentage (14-of-57) on passes of 20 yards or more. Part of the problem was his extremely young supporting cast.

"He's got a strong enough arm to throw it deep,'' Turner said. "The other thing in practice it's really hard because our receivers go out there from the first snap of practice in individual drills to the end and it's about two hours and they're just running and running and running, and they have to run in the game but they don't run nearly as much in the game. So sometimes on the deep balls it's harder to gauge, it's harder to get the great accuracy, but I think Brandon's going to be a real good deep ball thrower.''

He said Weeden has gotten back to the accuracy he displayed at Oklahoma State.

"He was an accurage passer in college,'' said Turner. "When you watched him and he got set and got his sights on someone and the guy was running open, he didn’t miss him very often. And that’s what he’s done here. Again, I think it’s about percentages and if you’re trying to throw the ball to guys you shouldn’t be throwing to, you’re not going to be real accurate. We've thrown the ball to the backs a lot already, but I don’t mind that. I like that in fact, if we’re still getting big plays up the field.''

He acknowledged that the former minor league pitcher sometimes puts too much heat on his fastball -- but not necessarily on the long ball.

"I think he does sometimes throw the ball harder than he needs to, but it's really not to me on the deeper balls,'' Turner said. "It's sometimes on the underneath things, some of the shorter balls. But I think that's natural for a guy that hasn't played a lot in this league and I don't see any of the negatives. I see a lot of positives in terms of where he's going.''

He said Weeden's making progress with his footwork and not patting the ball, but now has to develop muscle memory.

"It's been a process and what happens to you when you're by yourself and you're working, it's like going to the driving range and everything's smooth and it's good,'' said Turner. "Then you get out there and it's the real deal and when Brandon starts thinking too much he slows down. When he's really confident and sure of what he's doing, he's going a lot faster, his set-ups are faster, the ball's coming out quicker. It's a matter of him being experienced with everything we're doing, so there's not indecision.''

He's also been encouraged by the lack of picks in Weeden's three quarters.

"He's had some tough plays in the preseason where he's gotten to the third or fourth receiver, made good decisions, he's thrown the ball away,'' said Turner. "If you can go play a couple of games and not have an interception or have a ball that should be intercepted, I think you're making progress.''

Turner acknowledged that Weeden's looked better against the Rams and Lions than he has at times against his own defense in training camp.

"I think it's a combination of a lot of things,'' he said. "First of all, when you're in practice, we've been going against our defense since April, and there are things we know they're going to do and sometimes we'll get a big play on them because of it. There are things they recognize and they see it and they'll sit on a route. They'll take something away that we think we can get in a regular game. But I think we're going to be a real good defensive team from what I've seen. We've played two really good quarterbacks and their results have been mixed, probably like you guys see out here when our offense is going against our defense. But I it's been very competitive and I think it's been good for both sides of the ball.''

More to come later on Weeden and Turner.
http://www.cleveland.com

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Anyway, which plays did you see that you feel showed that he has a long way to go.

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Ytown, you would ask that, as I deleted everything so I could record a Breaking Bad marathon so the girlfriend and I could watch it all yesterday.

I can't go back and specifically recall each play, but there were 3 or 4 that weren't what I'd want to see from a soon-to-be 30 year old QB. Now keeping in mind that such a statement looks like I'm trashing the guy, just know I'm not. The specific question revolves around the plays I viewed as negative. I've already spoken of the good ones. The one I can clearly see was the dump/screen pass to Lewis, where he threw the ball right into the ground at Lewis' feet not ten feet away. That gave me the feeling that he's not as heady as I'd want. Beyond that? Little things like there was a play where his mental clock wasn't working, and another where he didn't seem to grasp what was happening when players were shifting.

Those criticisms don't take away from what I would consider a good game for him, but they are issues that he still needs to work on. If we're speaking in more of a general sense, I found it terribly unsettling that at his advanced age for being a rookie the coaches were still trying to get his footwork and mechanics sorted out.

If he can continue to build on what he did with the offensive minds putting the playbook together he should at least have an acceptable season, and the rest of the board won't have to worry about listening to me jovially start with the Jason Campbell pimpage.

I liked Weeden going into the 2012 draft ...

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specific question revolves around the plays I viewed as negative. I've already spoken of the good ones. The one I can clearly see was the dump/screen pass to Lewis, where he threw the ball right into the ground at Lewis' feet not ten feet away.

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I think he did that to spare Lewis from getting plowed....there was a defender lining him up for a big hit.

I give Brandon credit for those throws. Not because I thought they were extremely accurate, but because they were catchable and thrown to spots where only his WR could get it.

One also has to consider that on deep throws, in many cases the QB puts it up there expecting his bigger receiver to help him out and go up for the ball against the smaller DB.

Little as an example would have helped Weeden more had he pulled up a bit and gone up for the ball rather than let the ball fall in the basket. Either Little can go up to catch it or the DB runs through the receiver and we do get a PI call.

Some receivers are good at doing that, others need to keep working on it. Slow up and catch it high.

On the other hand ..... (from the thread title)

For the record, I think that Chud and Norv are gthe best thing that could have happened to Weeden. Norv is a master of finding out what a QB does well and designing an offense to fit his strengths, while staying away from things he doesn't do well, even if they might be some of his favorite plays. He does a great job of setting his ego aside as a coordinator, and doesn't try to force a guy into plays he just doesn't run well. I think that Weeden will do well this year with Norv's guidance.

Cleveland Browns' coaching combination of Chud/Turner is giving Brandon Weeden a chance to succeed: Terry Pluto | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/08/terry_plutos_cleveland_browns_7.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- When the new Browns coaching staff took over, they had to figure out what to do with Brandon Weeden.

That sounds like a negative, but it was a positive.

After watching tapes of Weeden from his rookie season and back at Oklahoma State, new head coach Rob Chudzinski and offensive coordinator Norv Turner believed Weeden could be an effective NFL quarterback.

They really liked his strong arm. And as Turner said Sunday, "He was an accurate passer in college ... when he got set and got his sights on someone and the guy was open, (Weeden) didn't miss very often."

At the very least, they preferred him over the alternatives in the draft or free agency.

But there were problems.

Start with the fact that Weeden was in the wrong system, the old under-center, West Coast offense (WCO) of the Mike Holmgren school of coaching.

That could be changed. In fact, Chud/Turner are the anti-WCO guys. They don't like under-center, when most college quarterbacks now throw out of the shotgun. Nor are they huge fans of the short, horizontal passing game. If possible, they like to throw downfield ... be it for 5 yards or 50.

The system ... they could fix that.

Last season, the teams coached by Chudzinski (Carolina) and Turner (San Diego) threw more than 70 percent of their passes out of shotgun, compared to 43 percent for the Browns in 2012.

The system & the QB

But what about Weeden?

There were whispers about the quarterback either not putting in the off-field work needed, or at least failing to grasp some basic offensive concepts. Was that because he couldn't understand the WCO? Or was it because it was just too different, and he didn't want to even give it a chance.

Chud/Turner decided to give him an opportunity to start fresh with new coaches, a new system. And this system has been historically successfully, but able to adapt to the game over the years.

"It's been proven over time," said Turner. "You go back to the 1970s with Don Coryell, and just keep going through all the different people who have played in the system ... it's very sound."

That's a short version of a history lesson that Turner gave Sunday, where names such as Ernie Zamepe and Mike Martz were mentioned.

You can be sure that Turner has told Weeden about how the system helped revive the careers of Troy Aikman, Brad Johnson, Philip Rivers and others.

But as Turner said, it comes down to this: "Find out the things he (Weeden) does best and combine them with the things our players do best."

Chudzinski did that with a pure pocket passer in Derek Anderson in 2007. Then the Browns coach was handed an athletic, scrambler of a quarterback in Cam Newton. Chudzinski took about 25 percent of the plays used by Newton at Auburn, then added them to a playbook for Newton's rookie season at Carolina.

As Turner said, "We try to keep it as simple as possible for the quarterback, and put some of the other burdens on the players."

Listening to all that, you sense they are telling Weeden, "It's not all on you. We are here to help you. And we have players who can help you. Just trust us."

The fact that Weeden has taken every single snap with the starters from the first day of the first minicamp with the new coaching staff is all Weeden really needs to know about where he stands.

No gifts

So why not just name him the starter?

It's not the style of this front office and coaching staff.

So you hear reports that the front office isn't sold on Weeden long term.

No kidding. He has yet to prove that should be the case. He'll be 30 on October 14, and had a rocky rookie year for a 5-11 team.

But they have enough faith in him to follow the advice of the new coaching staff and go another season with Weeden.

But they also want Weeden (and other young players to know) that jobs are earned, not given.

So Chudzinski refuses to name a starting quarterback ... even though Weeden is treated like a starter.

"The plan is to find the right guy," Chudzinski said last week. "The process has been what it has been to this point. We will make determinations along the way. At whatever point is the right time to do that, we will name a starter."

After the Lions game where Weeden put 17 points on the board in three possessions, Chudzinski said: "We had three scoring drives with him, a number of good throws. Certainly, there are a number of things he can improve on that we will go through the film with him."

Remember that Chud/Turner have made a career out of reading not only the talent of quarterbacks, but their emotional makeup.

They believe holding off on naming Weeden the starter is the wisest course. I don't see a problem with that, as long as they continue to prepare Weeden to start.

Turner said, "Chud has done an unbelievable job ... explained his plan to the quarterbacks from the start, and he's stuck with it. It's (announcing a starter) not an issue in the building ..."

The players know what's going on.

The big picture

Look at how the Browns have been coaching Weeden, and how he's responded. He's completed 18-of-25 passes (72 percent), good for three touchdowns, no interceptions, one passed batted down and a sparking 139.8 rating.

"He's extremely accurate with the ball and has made some big throws up the field," said Turner, adding that Weeden has impressed by not always trying for the big play -- instead delivering short passes to running backs when he is under pressure.

Turner said, "When Brandon starts thinking too much, he slows down."

You could see that in most games last season. He didn't look confident under center. He didn't seem to grasp the plays. He struggled to figure out who were his most reliable receivers.

Some of that happens with every rookie. But there are things that could immediately be remedied.

The front office took a step in that direction with acquiring veteran slot receiver Davone Bess.

The coaches designed the new offense.

The results are very promising, and there is reason for optimism.

Everything in training camp should be scribbled in pencil with an asterisk next to it.

But this can be written in ink: Weeden has the best coaching staff for him at this stage of his career.

Excuses are gone, success or failure is now up to him.

One of the better post-season images for the Browns... Pat carrying boxes after being told to ship his circus outta here!

Wonder what was in the box? His playbook could have been folded a few times and stuffed in his wallet.

j/c:

Nice to hear positive comments from the coaching staff towards Weeds. I'm still not sold, but I am encouraged. He has looked good this preseason. It would be a dream come true if he were truly the guy.

One thing that has to be noted that no one seems to be talking about. I have watched a lot of preseason games and NO QB has had the time and the pocket that Weeden has had. That could be good and bad. If they continue that dominance and Weeds is at least mediocre, he will be very successful. However, if teams do get some pressure, I am not real confident in Weeden being able to handle it.

I know this is aa thread about Weedz, but you touched on a subject that's very important: the OLine.

As you mentioned, Weedz has had more time and protection than virtually any other QB. By extension, that observation implies that other OLines have done less well against the same "vanilla D's" that Weedz has faced.

Who's to say that this trend of good protection won't hold up, once the season gets under way?

A lot falls upon Brandon for sure, but just as important is his protection's ability to pick up blitzes and keep the pressure off him.

To date, I see no reason to doubt that we'll be able to make those adjustments when the time comes.


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I think it will, but just not to the extent it has this preseason.

He had great protection last year. He still sucked.

I watch a guy like Luck who gets hit on almost ever freaking play and he still makes plays. Teams will eventually get pressure on our qb even though we have a great pass blocking OL. The defense gets paid, too.

We'll see how he handles it.

Clem, this is a big part of the problem.. historically, when discussing our offensive woes, people choose either:

1. The scheme (coaches)
2. The quarterback
3. The lack of running game
4. The lack of pass protection
5. The lack of quality wide receivers

as the reason that our offense isn't good... then the debate rages about the variables involved and who is most responsible. Usually with tacit acceptance that some of the other things aren't very good either... not until all of them reach a certain level of competence will we be any good... I think we are well on our way to fixing all of them.. and it's encouraging....

Chud just got done with a live conference over on the Home site and he just named Weeden the starting QB...

We will know how sold on him they are based on how long they stick with him if he struggles... and what they do next off-season... other than those 2 things, I'm not sure what else there is to say about this right now.

I'm not sold on anything to be honest. I'm excited and encourages by what I've seen from him and frankly, from the entire team. But I temper that with "it's the preseason" and I know it's different in the regular season. The two wins we've had looked like pretty easy games. I mean, we appeared to handle both teams very well.

What's that really mean? Not sure it really means anything. And I won't know until the regular season starts and we do the same thing to teams then.

Then I'll be sold.. won't you?

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I think that this applies to any player at any position that hasn't solidified their status with a season of solid play.
They're sold on him for the here-and-now. That's all we've got and the rest will take care of itself.

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Even beyond a season of solid play... They are sold on you up until a better option becomes available... and with the season about to start and roster cuts being potential depth players any way, we will roll largely with what we have and they will be "sold on it" until they can change it.

On a somewhat related musing... When was the last time we had zero rookie starters? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Moffitt beats out Gilkey, isn't that the case?

Multiply the output by 3 or 4, it looks OK. Congrats to Chud's starter. Now start gathering firewood so we can torch him the first time he screws up.