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A quick trip over to Craigslist, about 20 seconds is all it took me to find a 1 bedroom apartment, all utilities included for $450/month.
Sure it's not in the nicest area, but it's roof over your head.
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Cable TV, Internet, and cell phones are luxuries, not necessities.
I make plenty more than $30k a year and don't have internet at home, trust me, you can get by without it. 
Good for you,, I don't want to live without.. Got it?
So, don't put yourself in a position where you earn minimum wage. That's fairly simple, isn't it?
Minimum wage vs. livable wage. Min. wage is the least amount you can be paid per hour.
Livable wage varies. Greatly.
As for livable wage - a livable wage does not mean you can afford rent, entertainment, cell phone, internet, a vehicle lease, cable t.v., vacation, etc.
Livable wage means you can afford rent, a vehicle, food, electric, a home phone, and gas for your vehicle. Pretty much anything more than that becomes luxury items that you CAN do without. Problem is, in our society, no one wants to do without..............that doesn't mean we're entitled to it. You want more? Great, we all do. Work for it.
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Good points. I would add that, if you make minimum wage - or even a "livable" wage (exactly what that is, no one can define), then you shouldn't be eating breakfast at McDonalds.
Daman used the $4 example for a McD's breakfast and coffee. How about this:
$20 for a coffee maker that will last at least 2 years. 3 cents a day.
100 filters for $2.50. 3 cents per day.
2 lbs of coffee for $8. Lasts 2 months. 14 cents a day.
dozen eggs. $2 per dozen. 17 cents a day.
Loaf of bread - 2.50 - 1 slice a day, about 18 days. 14 cents a day.
Add cheese - 3 cents a day.
Breakfast for a day? 54 cents at home.
We're not talking about what's convenient - we're talking livable wage. Livable wage doesn't mean you get to eat out. that's a convenience.
If you can afford it, great. If you can afford a Ferrari, great. It doesn't mean everyone can, or should.
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Plus, many of the kids who worked for me used public transportation. They bought a monthly pass for something like $10, and rode the bus to and from work. Others actually walked to and from work. Convenient? No. Possible? Yep.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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. Convenient? No. Possible? Yep.
and therein lies the "livable wage" discussion. Livable wage, in my opinion, doesn't involve conveniences galore.
Heck, eating out is a convenience. A convenience that cost me $45 tonight, plus an $8 tip. Went out with friends after daughters volleyball game. (they won by the way. Took Sooga a little bit to figure out she was playing volleyball and not dodgeball.....but when she figured it out, she did great. Had 4 spikes, did an awesome job serving........did have one attempted spike that landed on her face. I think they call that a "swing and a miss". Even had a spike from a ball the other team bumped just over the net. Wow, to see her go up and slam it down.........great! Ah, I won't start any threads on her volleyball games, relax)
Anyway, a "livable" wage does not mean you can afford to go out to eat, have cable, internet, a leased car, cell phone, and laundry service, etc. A livable wage means you can afford a roof over your head, food, clothing (reasonable clothing - not the latest and greatest) and electric/gas. (doesn't mean you keep your house 75 in the winter, and 71 in the summer)
Minimum wage was never supposed to support all of that. And let's face it - with any incentive, a person making minimum wage will only be making that for 6 months if they're worth their salt.
Just did some work for a McDonalds franchisee........this discussion came up. His exact words were "they need to show up for work and do their job. Do that, and they get a raise." $15 an hour raise? Heavens no.
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Arch, the simple fact is that the more luxuries you want, the more conveniences that you want, the harder/smarter you have to work. That can mean one of a few things.. Either it means you work harder/smarter in the beginning and get a good degree/education/skill that you can use to make more money.... or it means you work multiple low paying jobs (or a ton of hours) to make more money.... or you live smarter/less convenient and do things like ride your bike, clip coupons, get a roommate, cut your own hair, cook for yourself, drink cheap beer..  ... forego the smartphone, etc. What I'm seeing from some in the debate is folks who didn't do #1 and aren't willing to do #s 2 and 3 but still want some of the luxuries/conveniences that other people have who can afford them.......
yebat' Putin
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NRTU buddy, just clicking
I worked yet another 16 hour day and made 128 bucks today hmmmm thats 8 bucks an hour. I didn't get any 15 min breaks, I got no lunch or dinner breaks and I will be lucky to get a one hour nap before I repeat the day all over again on Friday (Yes I know it's already Friday) I work a very high skilled job, and deal with people making min wage that expect everything handed to them every day. I have to say in the nicest way...... screw them.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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For what it is worth on the smartphone angle. Literally everyone I see in Thailand has a smart phone. My cleaning ladies, my receptionist, I even saw a monk using one a few days ago. I still consider it a luxury, but a very common luxury. People are saying $30k isn't a livable wage? I live on 6-8k. Outside of living in NYC...you can get by most places having some roommates, and even having cable/internet and only spend $300/month on rent + utilities. $200/month on food and luxuries is plenty if you aren't a pack a day smoker and don't drink. If you wanted to be truly frugal you can coupon shop or live on rice and beans and spend like $50-75 / month on food pretty comfortably. Especially when we are talking about fast food workers who get free meals (usually)...their food expenses can be very low. If you work a minimum wage job...you could still support a family of four if you were frugal...and you'd be able to save money. If you are going to be making the minimum amount allowed by law you're going to have to learn to operate on a budget if you want luxury items (aka. a wife and kids and a smartphone ) The girls downstairs were laughing that they want to move to america and work at KFC. Getting paid $7/hour (210 Baht) sounded ludicrous to them. Much less the proposed $15 (~500 baht). I don't quite understand all the hubub about how low these wages are.
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Good points. I would add that, if you make minimum wage - or even a "livable" wage (exactly what that is, no one can define), then you shouldn't be eating breakfast at McDonalds.
Daman used the $4 example for a McD's breakfast and coffee. How about this:
$20 for a coffee maker that will last at least 2 years. 3 cents a day.
100 filters for $2.50. 3 cents per day.
2 lbs of coffee for $8. Lasts 2 months. 14 cents a day.
dozen eggs. $2 per dozen. 17 cents a day.
Loaf of bread - 2.50 - 1 slice a day, about 18 days. 14 cents a day.
Add cheese - 3 cents a day.
Breakfast for a day? 54 cents at home.
We're not talking about what's convenient - we're talking livable wage. Livable wage doesn't mean you get to eat out. that's a convenience.
If you can afford it, great. If you can afford a Ferrari, great. It doesn't mean everyone can, or should.
Where do you get two lbs of coffee for 8 bucks? LOL I haven't paid that little for coffee in I don't know how many years..
As for eating at home sure,, if you look at the per meal cost, it's way cheaper to eat at home. I go to Costco and buy Rib Eye Steaks. I get four large steaks for about 35 bucks. I freeze them and when my wife and I want a steak, there you go. Add a baked potato and either a salad or some other veggie and your having a great steak for about 10 bucks per person. That's cheap.
I do the same with pork chops. I get 9 in a pack. These are thick boneless chops for about 20 bucks. Either grill them or bread and bake them, some saffron rice and a salad for under 5 bucks per person.
Burgers,, what a deal. for about 16 bucks I get 12 one half lb burgers, I get 9 lbs of fries for 7 bucks and a tomato perhaps with it. No bun! Total cost of meal, maybe 2.50 or so.
Giant Eagle has two fer Tuesdays.. You can get two pretty good size pork roasts for the price of one, around 8 bucks. one of those can feed four people. Make a gravy, bake it for an hour or so, add in a potato of some kind and a salad and boom, 2 bucks per meal (when you calculate in the free roast)
Again, I do that a couple times a month.
So it can be done. Never said it couldn't.
When I said that 35 to 40k was not a livable wage, I said it wasn't for ME.. I like nicer things and I work to earn the money to get them. I also like to provide a better life for my wife. Its important to me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Not to get on my on a soapbox but some of the pediatric patients I treat have diseases that the fast food industry is directly contributing to... Obesity, diabetes, liver disease, orthopedic disease, etc...
O off my soap box about what fast food contributes to our society
I just don't see how a worker instead of changing their own circumstances wants to get paid almost twice as much as they are currently making for something that a teenager with no high school education could do
<><
#gmstrong
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People are saying $30k isn't a livable wage? I live on 6-8k.
You also live in a third-world country.
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Not to get on my on a soapbox but some of the pediatric patients I treat have diseases that the fast food industry is directly contributing to... Obesity, diabetes, liver disease, orthopedic disease, etc...
O off my soap box about what fast food contributes to our society
I just don't see how a worker instead of changing their own circumstances wants to get paid almost twice as much as they are currently making for something that a teenager with no high school education could do
thank you! If you don't like your circumstance,, work to change them. I recognize that it's not as easy as saying it and it's done. But it can be done.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc.
Our son works at Sears, gets only 30-35hrs a week (They refuse to hire full time). He made $16,700 last year.
He pays all his own bills and utilities. He does not pay rent since he lives in a condo we own, which rent in those condos is around $850-900/month right now, but he does pay the association fees $180/qrtr, and the taxes at $800/yr, and the insurance (I think $900 last year), his utilities, cable, car insurance., cell phone.
He is very committed to putting 10% into his savings account every paycheck, and living thrifty. He calls the cable company and keeps getting the "introductory" rate for his basic cable (He actually just switched to Dish at their really reduced rate), he has the cheapest cable internet they provide, he grocery shops at the local food-only mart, and focuses on buying sale items and necessities.
He has just liability on his truck and shops his insurance every year for the best deal. He spends a lot of time at home watching movies, TV playing games of having friends over, who as part of the deal to have a place to hang out bring food and drinks.
The only assistance he will even accept from us is for major repairs/cost like when his radiator blew, I paid for the new radiator and we installed it in my garage. Or when his AC died, we paid for the service call and repairs (Although he did give my wife $120 toward that bill last week).
This is all living single and alone. He did just move his girlfriend in, so I imagine they will only be doing even better now.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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The only assistance he will even accept from us is for major repairs/cost .
...and living rent-free in a $900-a-month condo…
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I lived on the same amount in fairborn ohio.
I spent about double living north of san francisco. Rent was insane, 4 people in a house spending $610 each. And that was very cheap for the area.
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I'd be very interested to learn more about how you lived anything resembling a "traditional" lifestyle anywhere in the US for $500 a month.
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I just don't see how a worker instead of changing their own circumstances wants to get paid almost twice as much as they are currently making for something that a teenager with no high school education could do
They're delusional, self-entitled, and don't think it's "fair" that they make so little. The entitlement and idea of fairness go hand-in-hand.
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He did just move his girlfriend in, so I imagine they will only be doing even better now.
do you not remember how this part of life works? 
#gmstrong
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The only assistance he will even accept from us is for major repairs/cost .
...and living rent-free in a $900-a-month condo…
Yes, but he had a roommate paying half the bills, he could pull it off. He would have almost $0 left for entertainment, but he could survive, and that is AFTER he puts money in his savings, and he is well below 35k.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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He did just move his girlfriend in, so I imagine they will only be doing even better now.
do you not remember how this part of life works?
Sure do.  Was surprised he did so, he NEVER wanted any of his past girlfriends to move in, so this makes it interesting. As long as he's happy, that is all we care.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Don't you understand? Daman doesn't buy cheap coffee, and his lifestyle is the standard of living, obviously!
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The only assistance he will even accept from us is for major repairs/cost .
...and living rent-free in a $900-a-month condo…
Yes, but he had a roommate paying half the bills, he could pull it off. He would have almost $0 left for entertainment, but he could survive, and that is AFTER he puts money in his savings, and he is well below 35k.
That's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that, absent your assistance, he would have to earn about $28-30k a year pre-tax to be in the same position that he is now.
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He did just move his girlfriend in, so I imagine they will only be doing even better now.
do you not remember how this part of life works?
Sure do. Was surprised he did so, he NEVER wanted any of his past girlfriends to move in, so this makes it interesting. As long as he's happy, that is all we care.
no doubt. just poking fun that you think having potentially 2X the income with the same base bills means they'll be saving more. when a serious g/f is involved, that is rarely the case
(and the reason we do it is to keep her and thus ourselves happy. as it's worth it for the right girl)
#gmstrong
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The only assistance he will even accept from us is for major repairs/cost .
...and living rent-free in a $900-a-month condo…
Yes, but he had a roommate paying half the bills, he could pull it off. He would have almost $0 left for entertainment, but he could survive, and that is AFTER he puts money in his savings, and he is well below 35k.
That's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that, absent your assistance, he would have to earn about $28-30k a year pre-tax to be in the same position that he is now.
Of course not, but he isn't far off, and when he was unemployed and on unemployment, he dropped cable and internet altogether, saving $100/mn, kept his AC at 80 during the summer, and refused to turn on the heat on the few cold days we have. AND still managed to put money in savings.
He could have, with a roommate, paid rent if need be, and 2, there are places in decent parts of town here for $650/mn, and efficiencies for $400. The condo we supply happens to be very nice and almost 1300 sqft, much more than necessary.
That's my point, that depending on where you live, and how you choose to live, 35k could be a very nice living, far from :"getting by". If he was making 35k he could pay $900 rent, buy a new car, and still live decently. He's doing this on what by federal definition is poverty. 35k is nothing is you live and work in NYC, but the whole country isn't like NYC.
He has friends that make more than he does, live at home, but they have new cars, fancy phones, party every weekend, and complain they can't afford to move out. (hence why he didn't have a roommate, he see most of his friends as financially irresponsible )
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Where do you get two lbs of coffee for 8 bucks? LOL I haven't paid that little for coffee in I don't know how many years..
I asked my wife last night.
I also found this: http://www.walmart.com/browse/beverages/coffee/folgers/976759_976782_1001319/YnJhbmQ6Rm9sZ2Vycwieie
WoW,, didn't know that..nice catch..
Too bad I had Folgers coffee.. 
I'm a Dunkin Donuts Coffee guy.. for 2 lbs, it's 16 bucks..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Where do you get two lbs of coffee for 8 bucks? LOL I haven't paid that little for coffee in I don't know how many years..
I asked my wife last night.
I also found this: http://www.walmart.com/browse/beverages/coffee/folgers/976759_976782_1001319/YnJhbmQ6Rm9sZ2Vycwieie
WoW,, didn't know that..nice catch..
Too bad I had Folgers coffee..
I'm a Dunkin Donuts Coffee guy.. for 2 lbs, it's 16 bucks..
Again, if you have a caviar budget, you eat caviar. If you have a tuna fish budget, you eat canned tuna.
If you have a tuna fish budget, you could even drink this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Master-Chef-Ground-Coffee-33-oz/17178949
It;s probably not the greatest in the world, but again, depending on what your budget is, and if you really want coffee, it would make a lot of pots of coffee.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why does he need coffee at all? Plastic cup, water faucet, done.
yebat' Putin
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That's my point, that depending on where you live, and how you choose to live, 35k could be a very nice living, far from :"getting by". If he was making 35k he could pay $900 rent, buy a new car, and still live decently. He's doing this on what by federal definition is poverty. 35k is nothing is you live and work in NYC, but the whole country isn't like NYC.
And you're missing my point, which is your example is an incredibly poor one, because not everyone who earns $17k a year gets another $12k annually in assistance from mom and dad. Which is why I say that to maintain the exact same lifestyle that he has now, which means in an equivalent dwelling, no roommate, same amenities (cable, phone, etc) and same expenses, he would need an income of around $28-30k.
Taking a roommate, canceling cable, turning off the AC…these are all irrelevant because they're all changes in lifestyle, resulting in an apples-to-oranges comparison.
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Coincidentally I just finished eating a can of tuna and had 2 cups of instant coffee today Adam: I had two roommates, rent was 250 each. Cable/Internet was...I think 33 each. Utilities 20-30 each? (It's been 8 years) I spent close to nothing on gasoline. Spent nothing on car insurance or health insurance. That left about $200 USD per month on food. I didn't drink much or smoke. Rarely went out. Add in whatever liability insurance costs for a sane person and whatever you're forced to pay for health insurance these days. Our apartment wasn't exactly ramshackle either, and in a good neighborhood. Rent costs and my refusal to not have internet are the main monetary issues in life. You can easily cut your food budget down to a pittance if you live on rice and beans or go mega coupon....or get free meals from your job
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I believe the young man in question would reduce his lifestyle to match his income if the assistance was no longer available. I believe it is his goal to no longer receive such assistance to maintain himself.
I was going to say that he will do these things because he has been taught that they were necessary. It would be more thoroughly complete to say that he has, within himself, come to believe this. No doubt parental influence had much to do with this, and to FloridaFan, well done, sir, well done.
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This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage: $650 a month
Renters/Homeowners Insurance: $20 a month
Health Insurance: Employer paid
Car: If he/she is 28 i would think they would have saved up some money and purchased a car already.
Car Insurance: $75 a month
Auto Gas: $200 a month
Gas/Electric/Water: $175 a month
Cable/Internet: $150 a month
Phone (Cell or home or both): $50 a month
Food and Consumables: $600 a month
Entertainment: $50 a month
Short Term Savings: $200 a month
Retirement Savings: $ 250 a month
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): $150 a month for things like clothes
Property tax (for the home owner): for a 1500 sq ft house $140 a month
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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Taking a roommate, canceling cable, turning off the AC…these are all irrelevant because they're all changes in lifestyle, resulting in an apples-to-oranges comparison.
They are relevant, because they are what you do when you need to, you eliminate the unnecessary expenditures and/or increase income.
When I got my first place, I HAD to have a roommate. Rent was $610 total, electric ran around $80, water was included in rent, didn't carry renters insurance. And we had furniture donated by friends and trash picks, and my 19" TV that was almost as old as I was at the time.
Back then I had just the basic cable which then was just local channels over cable, there was no internet, no cellphone. And the only groceries my roommate and I bought was Ramen noodles by the case and Kraft Mac and Cheese. Milk and cereal was a luxury when we made extra money off a gig, which back then in this town we were lucky to make $40/prsn a night playing out, not including any bar bill.
The only time we had beer in the fridge was when we'd convince some girls to bring it over. Luckily being a musician, we could often go out to clubs we played and get a couple drinks and bar food free. Sunday was always a day to look forward to, because I would go to my mom's house for Sunday dinner, a home cooked meal.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage: $650 a month
Renters/Homeowners Insurance: $20 a month
Health Insurance: Employer paid
Car: If he/she is 28 i would think they would have saved up some money and purchased a car already.
Car Insurance: $75 a month
Auto Gas: $200 a month
Gas/Electric/Water: $175 a month
Cable/Internet: $150 a month
Phone (Cell or home or both): $50 a month
Food and Consumables: $600 a month
Entertainment: $50 a month
Short Term Savings: $200 a month
Retirement Savings: $ 250 a month
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): $150 a month for things like clothes
Property tax (for the home owner): for a 1500 sq ft house $140 a month
And the reason that many young adults don't have any of those expenses you list....
They don't own auto's or homes.
They can't afford them.
They usually don't have insurances to cover themselves at all.
They can't afford it.
They only make $8:00 or $9.00 an hr.
Eventually, sooner or later the min wage will always rise. But the rate of climb continues to drive the middle class out of the American dream.
I believe Sonny And Cher said it best, The beat goes on...The beat goes on.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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I live like a pauper who spends too much on food apparently When I think livable as a definition I think "capable of living". Which to me means you have food and shelter. Not homeless and not starving = livable. I think it would be nice if people made wages above strictly livable, just debating a definition. For the amounts you plugged in, some overinflated (food and rent). It comes out to about $17/hour wage, 40 hours a week, 4 weeks a month. (sloppy math).
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I've also noticed that people are saying $200/month for gas.
$200/month is about what I spend in gas.
My commute to work is 85 miles roundtrip. So $200/month seems like a crazy number to be "normal" to me.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,554 |
Quote:
This argument over what constitutes a livable wage rages every single time this topic comes up... so what should a single person, we'll say age 28, have to spend in Hypotheticalville, USA? Go ahead and fill them in.....
Rent/Mortgage: $650 a month
Renters/Homeowners Insurance: $20 a month
Health Insurance: Employer paid
Car: If he/she is 28 i would think they would have saved up some money and purchased a car already.
Car Insurance: $75 a month
Auto Gas: $200 a month
Gas/Electric/Water: $175 a month
Cable/Internet: $150 a month
Phone (Cell or home or both): $50 a month
Food and Consumables: $600 a month
Entertainment: $50 a month
Short Term Savings: $200 a month
Retirement Savings: $ 250 a month
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): $150 a month for things like clothes
Property tax (for the home owner): for a 1500 sq ft house $140 a month
Wow!
My mortgage is 480/month. (including insurance and taxes) My car insurance is $29/month. (and not for state minimum either) Gas, electric, and water is about right. TV is $60 or $70. I can't remember off the top of my head. My internet is $42. My home phone is roughly $2.75/month, paid on an annual basis. (VOIP, $29 plus tax per year) My cell phone is a pre-paid that is $30 for 2 months. Food ... wow ..... you have $600 per month?  I generally spend about $175 - $250 per month. Entertainment/money to blow is $75/month. $150/month for clothes? Holy cow. If worse comes to worse, a person can go to Goodwill and find clothes that have never been worn for pennies on the dollar. (and I have shopped there on occasion, having bought my dining room set, and 2 chairs for my living room from there really cheap) I usually don't spend a lot on clothes each month. I might buy a pair of pants here, or a shirt there ....... or maybe some socks, (like I did yesterday, bought 20 pairs for $15 at Wal Mart) but $140 is way too much for a person on a limited budget.
The savings is a good goal for a person making $2200 or more per month, but a person can still manage to get through to retirement without saving a ton. Unfortunately, money is less valuable today than it's ever been, and it will be less valuable in the future. I used to think that Social Security wouldn't be here when I retire, but the way this government just spends money it doesn't have, I suspect that it will be here forever. I don't see how they can cut it when there will be such an enormous voting block collecting it.
Anyway, my list would look like this:
Rent/Mortgage: $480 a month, including insurance and taxes
Renters/Homeowners Insurance: Paid with mortgage
Health Insurance: None right now
Car: If he/she is 28
Car Insurance: $29 a month
Auto Gas: $80 a month (If that)
Gas/Electric/Water: $175 a month
Cable/Internet: $110 a month
Phone (Cell or home or both): $17.75 a month
Food and Consumables: $250 a month (Including the dog's food)
Entertainment: $75 a month
Short Term Savings: $200 a month
Retirement Savings: $ 250 a month
Misc. (Did I forget anything?): $75 a month for things like clothes
Property tax (for the home owner): for a 1500 sq ft house: Paid with mortgage.
You have people being able to just scrape by on $2710/month. Most people make less than that.
My list comes up to $1741.75/month. I do not put $450 into savings right now. I cannot with my health situation, and having no insurance. However, I still manage to pay all of my bills, even on a significantly limited budget.
It's funny. When I was growing up, we barely qualified for assistance, some times. My father left, and my mother worked to support the family. We got some help from relatives, but my mom largely did it on her own. Our rent was really cheap, (I can't remember what it was now) and we lived in a 2 bedroom apartment. (with mom and 3 kids, I got a room, and my brothers shared a room, and my mom walled off a bedroom in part of the living room with a false wall and curtains) My grandfather helped mom keep her car going. We did get food stamps for a while. However, for the most part, my mom did it on a lower end job. (Hills, Ames, Wal Mart) She wanted to be able to see us off in the morning for school, and to be home to make sure we weren't getting into trouble at night.
When you don't have the money for things, you find a way to get by without them. We didn't have cable TV back then.Mom altered my clothes to fit my brothers when i outgrew them. We couldn't afford an all new wardrobe each year, and cable. I had to buy my own car and insure itwhen I was old enough to drive. I had 6 months of the joint use of mom's car when i got my license, and I was expected to save enough money for a car in that time frame. I did it too. We got some clothes that were handed down from friends of the family, or family. We managed.
I doubt that most people could do what my mom did though. She gave up any social life so that she could provide for us kids, and so that she could raise us.She worked her butt off for us kids. We didn't have a lot growing up, but we were never neglected, and we didn't go hungry. We always had a roof over our heads, and we lived in Poland and Boardman growing up. (so we weren't in the slums) My mom always did her own hair, never had her nails done, and I cannot remember her buying anything but $1 pairs of ear rings for herself back then.We didn't have luxuries, but she kept the family together, and provided for us.
Hell, today a person in her situation would "need" free housing, medical, utilities, and food stamps. They would "need" child care and transportation. They would "need" tax credits so they can go buy stuff for themselves on "2nd Christmas" in February, when the tax preparation/instant refund place gives them an early tax refund for a fee of several hundred dollars. It's amazing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Eventually, sooner or later the min wage will always rise. But the rate of climb continues to drive the middle class out of the American dream.
I'm curious what the correlation is between the minimum wage and the middle class...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,856
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,856 |
Quote:
I've also noticed that people are saying $200/month for gas.
$200/month is about what I spend in gas.
My commute to work is 85 miles roundtrip. So $200/month seems like a crazy number to be "normal" to me.
Agreed. Especially when you factor in our 2 vehicles. A GMC pickup - 15 mpg, and an H3 - about 17 mpg. Driving them both, every day, we spend roughly $175 to $200 a month. 2 drivers, 2 different vehicles.
Now, my work vehicle? That's a different story. However, in a previous job, I didn't put many more miles on.......drop daughter off to school, and go to work 1 mile from school.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,101
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,101 |
Quote:
Quote:
Eventually, sooner or later the min wage will always rise. But the rate of climb continues to drive the middle class out of the American dream.
I'm curious what the correlation is between the minimum wage and the middle class...
Not sure there is one.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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