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If I was a 22 or 24 year old (Gordon and Little's ages) millionaire with some sort of supercar I would probably get caught for the same thing.
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If I was a 22 or 24 year old (Gordon and Little's ages) millionaire with some sort of supercar I would probably get caught for the same thing.
And some of our posters would be screaming "Throw cfrs15 in prison for the rest of his life! He's a terrible person!" 
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I'm sure someone on this board has said that already...
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
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Hey, it was only a drifter. . .
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Kellen Winslow is pissed about their recklessness....
Another classic..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Cleveland Browns' Greg Little says driving 127 mph could've cost lives, and coach Rob Chudzinski reprimands him and Josh Gordon for speeding | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/08/cleveland_browns_greg_little_s.htmlBEREA, Ohio -- Browns receiver Greg Little was contrite today for driving 127 miles per hour and crashing his Audi in April, sayinx he knows it could've cost lives. But he was cited for speeding again Monday night on I-71 in Strongsville -- going 81 mph in a 60 mph zone - and also for expired plates. "It's obviously something that I've got to take very seriously and slow my speeds down and be cautious of others on the road,'' he said today after practice. "I could have seriously put my life and other lives in danger." Little said he wasn't thinking when he pressed down that hard on the gas pedal. According to the crash report, he was dragracing at about 2:47 a.m. on April 13, on State Route 176 near Spring Rd., which is a 55 zone. Little struck a guard rail, hit a light pole and totaled his Audi. He also fled the scene of the accident, according to the report. Little was found guilty and paid a $350.00 fine. For Monday night's violation, he's due in court Sept. 4. "It was really just a mindless effort on my behalf and just not thinking at all, just being careless of the laws in place on the roads and just not abiding by them." He admitted he feels lucky to be alive after the one-car crash. "Yeah, it was a pretty traumatic experience and it's something that I learned from and I'm just trying to move forward and just learn from it,'' he said. Little isn't the only Browns receiver who's had a need for speed lately. Josh Gordon, who's suspended for the first two games for violating the substance abuse policy and is already on thin ice with the Browns according to CEO Joe Banner, was caught traveling 98 in a 60 mph zone on Aug. 13, on I-71 near West. 150th. Gordon, who wasn't available in the locker room today, drives a camouflage sports car and isn't hard to miss on the road. Sources have said the Browns aren't thrilled with the flashy car. Gordon was also stopped on May 10th on West. 25th for going 45 in a 25. He failed to appear in court, and a warrant was issued for his arrest. But it was cancelled Aug. 16 and he's due in court Aug. 27th at 8:30 a.m. Browns coach Rob Chudzinski addressed the incidents after practice today. "We take that seriously,'' Chudzinski said. "It's not acceptable. I’ve sat down with both of those guys individually and talked to them and addressed that with them as well as with the team.” He said he found both to be contrite. "They are,'' he said. "They are and they understand exactly where I’m coming from.” He declined to say if he disciplined them, but both will start Saturday's game in Indianapolis. "I addressed it and we’ll handle all of that internally,'' he said. He said he made it clear that such behavior won't be tolerated. "All of these guys are learning how to mature,'' he said. "We're working to build a locker room and a team and a foundation of guys that are accountable and that's what being as Brown is going to be about." Little disputed the part of the police report that said he was drag racing. “No. I guess that’s the testimony some witness gave,'' he said. "I’m not really sure particularly who, but there were no other cars on the road at the time.” As for fleeing the scene, he said, "I called my Audi roadside assistance. They said a tow truck would be there within an hour. I went home within the hour and came back and that’s when the police had showed up.'' Asked what will change for Little, he said, "slowing down.'' Chudzinski was asked if the playing time of Little and Gordon will be affected. "As far as this game, no,'' he said. More on the Browns' unwanted team speed coming soon.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't care at all if he speeds, or if all of them speed. I drive no less than 80 through that same section of road every time I pass through it (traffic permitting), and the Strongsville cops are notorious about running radar by the one bridge there. All of that is well and good.
BUT - if you do the deed and get caught, then be a Man and show up to court when you are told to. It is not an optional event.
The kids have money.... hire a lawyer and let them handle it for you.
Better yet, be smart enough to keep your speeding low enough that you can just send in payment and not have to make a court appearance in the first place.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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80 is one thing. I have probably been guilty of 80 in a 65 ....... many times.
The one that worries me is the 127, or whatever it was. That shows blatant disregard for his own safety and the safety of others.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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so... if the 127 ended in him crashing... how did they find out he was going that fast? Did he just admit it?
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so... if the 127 ended in him crashing... how did they find out he was going that fast? Did he just admit it?
the car's trip computer? skid lengths?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I would assume that they can tell by measuring skid marks, or other methods. Maybe by the damage to the car, and so on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would assume that they can tell by measuring skid marks, or other methods. Maybe by the damage to the car, and so on.
You and prp - those "measuring" devices would be very faulty. Skid marks? When did he hit the brakes, when did he start the skid marks (instantly? after a second or 2? Prior to hitting the guardrail?)
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I would assume that they can tell by measuring skid marks, or other methods. Maybe by the damage to the car, and so on.
You and prp - those "measuring" devices would be very faulty. Skid marks? When did he hit the brakes, when did he start the skid marks (instantly? after a second or 2? Prior to hitting the guardrail?)
Not for me to figure out. Cops go to school to learn precisely this type of forensics work.
You have the vehicle weight, you have constants such as gravity, etc.... it CAN be worked out.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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127 is a pretty specific number. Yes, you can calculate a speed based on the car, tires, road, etc; but I don't think you can get such an exact number with a high degree of confidence from that method. It had to have been a radar gun, Little's admission, or an estimate off of a car that was keeping reasonable pace.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
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Police Officer: "Son, do you have any idea how fast you were going"
Greg Little: "Well, just before I hit the brakes it said 127. Is that a problem?"
Officer: "Umm...Yes, sir I think it's going to be...."
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Officer: "Here's your ticket."
Little: "Oops, could you pick it up for me? I dropped it."
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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and has a loaded unregistered handgun in his car
Not to split hairs, but you don't have to register a hand gun in Ohio. I'm pretty sure about that.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Win football games and I couldn't care less what they do off the field.
Speeding tickets arent going to result in suspensions so I honestly couldn't care less
I think what you are missing here is that these guys have money. They have agents. They have access to high powered lawyers.
Why the hell would you miss a court date w/all that support? Only one answer.........they are irresponsible and are filled w/entitlement.
Freaking Gordon has messed up so many times that we can't even hardly keep track. Yet, he NEVER seems to learn anything, other than read prepared statements from his agent.
You don't see a problem. I do.
And I believe that growing up in environments where their great performances on the football field led to people saying the same thing as you............"I don't care what they do off the field..." is precisely the problem both of these clowns have.
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Quote:
Quote:
Win football games and I couldn't care less what they do off the field.
Speeding tickets arent going to result in suspensions so I honestly couldn't care less
I think what you are missing here is that these guys have money. They have agents. They have access to high powered lawyers.
Why the hell would you miss a court date w/all that support? Only one answer.........they are irresponsible and are filled w/entitlement.
Freaking Gordon has messed up so many times that we can't even hardly keep track. Yet, he NEVER seems to learn anything, other than read prepared statements from his agent.
You don't see a problem. I do.
And I believe that growing up in environments where their great performances on the football field led to people saying the same thing as you............"I don't care what they do off the field..." is precisely the problem both of these clowns have.
I agree.
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Quote:
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Win football games and I couldn't care less what they do off the field.
Speeding tickets arent going to result in suspensions so I honestly couldn't care less
I think what you are missing here is that these guys have money. They have agents. They have access to high powered lawyers.
Why the hell would you miss a court date w/all that support? Only one answer.........they are irresponsible and are filled w/entitlement.
Freaking Gordon has messed up so many times that we can't even hardly keep track. Yet, he NEVER seems to learn anything, other than read prepared statements from his agent.
You don't see a problem. I do.
And I believe that growing up in environments where their great performances on the football field led to people saying the same thing as you............"I don't care what they do off the field..." is precisely the problem both of these clowns have.
Again, though...I don't really care about them as human beings. I care about them as football players. I've been on the record with my feelings about Gordon. But I don't care about speeding tickets. If he gets suspended again, he's probably off the team, anyway.
It would be great if they matured and became responsible men and teammates. But a touchdown scored by an entitled rocks for brains is still a touchdown.
Stay on the field, perform on the field, I'm cool. I don't really care about their growth as people.
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I'm with PDR here. (I'll take things I never thought I'd say for 500, Alex) But really, they aren't my kids. They aren't my friends, I don't care what they're like as a person. I'd root for Aaron Hernandez if he led us to a Super Bowl. And I'm not joking with that statement, either.
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and has a loaded unregistered handgun in his car
Not to split hairs, but you don't have to register a hand gun in Ohio. I'm pretty sure about that.
Regardless, it cannot be loaded. When I carry my AR-15 rifle, ammo can be beside the rifle or in the same carrying case, but nothing be chambered or loaded.
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I'm with PDR here.
(I'll take things I never thought I'd say for 500, Alex)
But really, they aren't my kids. They aren't my friends, I don't care what they're like as a person.
I'd root for Aaron Hernandez if he led us to a Super Bowl. And I'm not joking with that statement, either.
I could not root for Hernandez. Now even for a Super Bowl.
As far as the rest, I agree on a personal side, but the fact is that the type of behavior we are talking about can be dangerous, that could cause the player to miss time, either because of stupid injury or suspension. (or both) Look at what Winslow did to himself, and the Browns, by virtue of his behavior. (as an example) Look what Don Rogers did to himself, his one time future wife, and the Browns, on one stupid night of partying it up.
I want guys who realize that their bodies are their career, and that they cannot afford to take stupid chances with them. I truly don't think that's too much to expect. Too many things can hit an athlete out of the clear blue ..... like with LeCharles Bentley ... or Gary Baxter ......... that we don't need guys taking unnecessary and idiotic risks.
Would people be saying "Oh it doesn't matter" if Little had been seriously hut in that accident, had destroyed a knee, and maybe was never the same player again? I doubt it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Again, though...I don't really care about them as human beings. I care about them as football players. I've been on the record with my feelings about Gordon. But I don't care about speeding tickets. If he gets suspended again, he's probably off the team, anyway.
I can understand that.
However, it bothers me when these guys are so irresponsible, because it means that they are much more likely to mess up off the field and end up not being on the field.
That isn't really hard to understand, is it?
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Not hard to understand at all.
Nothing happens in a vacuum... and sooner or later, the crap rolls back around. When people- ANY people- are allowed to skate with no consequences for their actions/choices, they have been done no favors, imho. The cause/effect scenario that gives the rest of us a sense of perspective is stunted in people like this- which many times causes them to push the envelope further.
Eventually, they push it past the point of no return... the point at which their handlers, protectors, and pacifiers can no longer insulate them from the consequences of escalating behavior. That's when you read headlines like:
"Donte Stallworth: DUI Manslaughter Charges Pending."
_______________________
And before anyone takes off on the [relatively] light sentence he received for that horrible mistake, remember this: This young man will grow old knowing that he senselessly, needlessly took the life of another human being. Don't think for one minute that when that anniversary rolls around, it doesn't effect him. I'm sure it does. And even if it doesn't, he'll never be immune from potentially seeing someone in public who will look him in the eye and say: "Hey- I know you... you killed a man."
Every year. Year after year. Decade after decade. He'll never forget the name of that poor guy who was in a rightful place at the wrong time. And it might have been avoided if he'd been handled differently in the events that led up to that horrible night.
As fans, we care when these players' actions impact the quality of the product we all love to watch, which is fair. Instead, I think about how much baggage they could potentially carry around for life...
...because noone had the cajones to make them face earlier music.
These seem like little things.... but they do add up over time. Some people don't learn until it's too late.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Then you roll out the concept of Moral Luck. I'd argue Stallworth has as much to be shamed about than anyone else who has driven drunk. (going 50 in a 40 mph zone hitting a guy crossing randomly in the road, what a monster!) Maybe it is a result of my having driven drunk, driven fast, and driven wrecklessly, and nothing bad happened. I've also spun out going 55 on the highway in some icy rain and missed a pole by a foot. Assigning moral values to random luck is kind of silly. Under different circumstances I could have killed someone or killed myself, just lucky I didn't. Under different circumstances I could also be a world class athlete making millions of dollars 
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After some digging, WOIO also found that, back in April, Little admitted to driving 127 mph. He lost control of his vehicle, hit a guard rail, knocked down a light pole and left 40 yards worth of brake tracks. The wide receiver received a $350 fine.
Don't know if it's been brought up anywhere else in this thread... but anyone else find this part disturbing?
127 MPH - lost control - wrecked - kocked down a pole and fled the scene according to another article and only had a $350 fine? It's been a few years so I can't remember the exact amount, but I had like a $140 ticket just for going 71 in a 55... man it must be nice to be rich... or a pro athlete.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Officer: "Here's your ticket."
Little: "Oops, could you pick it up for me? I dropped it."
ZING!
Meh.
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Then you roll out the concept of Moral Luck.
I'd argue Stallworth has as much to be shamed about than anyone else who has driven drunk. (going 50 in a 40 mph zone hitting a guy crossing randomly in the road, what a monster!)
Maybe it is a result of my having driven drunk, driven fast, and driven wrecklessly, and nothing bad happened. I've also spun out going 55 on the highway in some icy rain and missed a pole by a foot. Assigning moral values to random luck is kind of silly. Under different circumstances I could have killed someone or killed myself, just lucky I didn't. Under different circumstances I could also be a world class athlete making millions of dollars
I see what you're saying, but it isn't dumb luck if you kill someone while you're driving drunk.
You made a series of conscious decisions that increased the risk of that happening. That's not a matter of luck, that's probabilities and odds.
I'm not trying to be the moral police here...I've driven drunk and driven irresponsibly before.
But had I hit someone, it wouldn't have been bad luck. It would be a case of me making choices that led to actions which had consequences.
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Then you roll out the concept of Moral Luck.
I'd argue Stallworth has as much to be shamed about than anyone else who has driven drunk. (going 50 in a 40 mph zone hitting a guy crossing randomly in the road, what a monster!)
Maybe it is a result of my having driven drunk, driven fast, and driven wrecklessly, and nothing bad happened. I've also spun out going 55 on the highway in some icy rain and missed a pole by a foot. Assigning moral values to random luck is kind of silly. Under different circumstances I could have killed someone or killed myself, just lucky I didn't. Under different circumstances I could also be a world class athlete making millions of dollars
I see what you're saying, but it isn't dumb luck if you kill someone while you're driving drunk.
You made a series of conscious decisions that increased the risk of that happening. That's not a matter of luck, that's probabilities and odds.
I'm not trying to be the moral police here...I've driven drunk and driven irresponsibly before.
But had I hit someone, it wouldn't have been bad luck. It would be a case of me making choices that led to actions which had consequences.
My understanding - or recollection - of stallworth was he had partied, no doubt. Spent the night in a hotel. Drove the next morning. (now, in no way am I excusing anything here, okay? That morning, he was still "legally" drunk.)
However - and if I'm wrong, correct me - you or anyone. He was going 50 in a 40 mph zone. As were probably most people driving on that road. Regardless.......the guy ran in front of him. Had Stallworth been 100% sober, he still would've hit the guy. And killed the guy.
Is my memory/recollection wrong? The guy ran in front of him, right? And again, I'm not excusing him in any way, shape or manner. The fact alcohol was involved is what caused Stallworth to go to jail.
If you're driving down the road after having a beer and you get t-boned by a completely sober driver, I do believe that still gets reported as an "alcohol related" accident, even though it was no fault of the person who had had a beer.
Maybe I'm wrong..........?
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You could've had a much quicker summation - the guy was walking across the MacArthur Causeway. If you're not familiar with it, it's basically six lanes that connects Miami to South Beach. The guy had no business walking across it.
However, that doesn't means Stallworth just had bad luck. He was drunk at the scene of an accident. Maybe that accident still happens if he's sober. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe his inebriation was a factor, maybe it wasn't.
But that still doesn't make it luck. There were a series of actions that led to increased odds and probabilities. Maybe there isn't correlation or causation, maybe there is. But it's not just random luck on anyone's part.
I'm not bagging on Stallworth. I feel bad for the guy. But he was guilty of a crime.
A terrible card player isn't the victim of bad luck. They put themselves into scenarios based on odds and probabilities. There's luck involved, sure, but the system isn't driven by it.
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Then you roll out the concept of Moral Luck.
I'd argue Stallworth has as much to be shamed about than anyone else who has driven drunk. (going 50 in a 40 mph zone hitting a guy crossing randomly in the road, what a monster!)
Maybe it is a result of my having driven drunk, driven fast, and driven wrecklessly, and nothing bad happened. I've also spun out going 55 on the highway in some icy rain and missed a pole by a foot. Assigning moral values to random luck is kind of silly. Under different circumstances I could have killed someone or killed myself, just lucky I didn't. Under different circumstances I could also be a world class athlete making millions of dollars
I see what you're saying, but it isn't dumb luck if you kill someone while you're driving drunk.
You made a series of conscious decisions that increased the risk of that happening. That's not a matter of luck, that's probabilities and odds.
I'm not trying to be the moral police here...I've driven drunk and driven irresponsibly before.
But had I hit someone, it wouldn't have been bad luck. It would be a case of me making choices that led to actions which had consequences.
It is a matter of luck that Stallworth killed someone and you didn't. The concept is called Moral Luck . Basically probabilities and odds...so we likely agree, just using different terms
You both drove drunk. Someone stepped in front of Stallworth and not infront of you. He isn't any more morally culpable than you are. Granted there are debates in the field on that step
I'm not saying drunk driving is a good thing to do. Much the opposite. It is only a matter of luck (and degree of drunkenness / choices of streets) that any of us haven't killed someone when we have driven drunk. I absolutely could have killed someone or myself multiple times when I was driving, I don't think I'm any better than Stallworth that it just so happened no one stepped in front of me while I was being an idiot.
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I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying... perhaps because of my example. I'll take the hit on this one- I shouldn't have diluted my stance with distracting examples. My bad.
My main point was "learning from one's mistakes"... and how many of these privileged people learn the hard way after it's way too late... because we now live in a culture that coddles, insulates, and protects these "high-value" folks.... when us regular folk get the hammer early in life.
I did a bit of "inebriated vehicular navigation" when I was their age, too... and never got tapped by the constabulary. Even so, I did it knowing that if busted, it'd be on me, for breaking rules that I was not ignorant of. Along with that came the knowledge that I'd have to take the hit without some intermediary to soften the blow I "earned."
My point is pretty straight-forward: take "moral luck" out of the equation, and we ALL are still on the hook for the choices we make. Natural consequences are how we learn. BUT... these guys (along with Hollywood celebrities, power brokers, and sons/daughters of the uber-rich) are spared the pain of these lessons. Hence, they continue upon paths of behavior that the rest of us abandon, after we find our collective teats in the proverbial wringer.
I'll have to do some research on this "moral luck" concept... as this is the first time I've encountered it.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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I think for the sake of brevity (aka I'm lazy ) I didn't get into that aspect. And I agree. For example someone mentioned Little only getting a $350 fine. I can't imagine that being the case for your average citizen. When we talk about our drunk driving being reckless and stupid, I can imagine a lot of these wealthy athletes feel far more entitled to do whatever they want. It certainly is a bizarre trend for Little and Gordon...which predates them having any money at all. I don't know if they think they are far superior or are just selfish and lazy. I hope this off the field stuff takes them off the field as little as possible.
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Yeah, we are kinda getting off track here. A couple of things stick in my head, despite those that say: "if I had millions and was 22 years old, I would do the same thing..." ---Little had more parking tickets in college than receptions.  ---93 parking violations is a lot!!! ---Gordon always seems to make bad choices. ---Fleeing the scene of an accident is not good. Make a mistake, own up to it. ---Skipping out on court dates when you have agents/attorneys/money is a sure sign of of irresponsibility and entitlement.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I agree with all of your statements, however: Quote:
Fleeing the scene of an accident is not good. Make a mistake, own up to it.
I would guess he had been drinking. I'd flee too. Better that than a DUI. I'm not saying it is right what he did at all - he was putting others at risk driving like that and it is unacceptable.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I was thinking the same thing, but did not say it.
Sweet car btw. -----------Yours, I mean.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum More Troubles for Gordon and
Little
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