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Cleveland Browns' secondary could rank among primary concerns this season: Analysis By Tom Reed, Northeast Ohio Media Group BEREA, Ohio – Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi spent more time poppin’ tags Sunday than Macklemore and Ryan Lewis as the NFL’s thrift shop opened less than 24 hours after roster cut-down day. Browns’ management claimed six players off waivers, including a pair of running backs Bobby Rainey and Dennis Johnson, as it tries desperately to upgrade talent in advance of the regular-season opener against Miami. The club is still without a kicker and many observers worry about the quality depth at running back and the prospects of converted tackle Oniel Cousins starting at right guard. All legitimate concerns on a 53-man roster that features 11 undrafted free agents. But it’s the Browns’ secondary, particularly its dearth of cornerbacks, which remains especially troubling. In a league where three-receiver sets are commonplace the Browns have one reliable, experienced and healthy cornerback in Joe Haden. They have just three others: Buster Skrine, Chris Owens and Leon McFadden available – all listed at 5-foot-9. It’s not a group that inspires much confidence. Granted, many said the same thing about the Indians’ starting rotation in April, but skepticism regarding the secondary is still valid. Coach Rob Chudzinski tried to speak in positive terms regarding his cornerbacks Saturday in announcing Skrine as the starter opposite Haden. OWENS.JPGView full sizeThe Browns need free-agent acquisition Chris Owens to stay healthy. He's missed time in preseason with a foot injury.Associated Press “Again, Chris Owens has done a really nice job in this camp, and we feel like we have two guys we can play, alternate,” Chudzinski said while evaluating his fluid roster. “Obviously, as much as people are in sub-personnel right now, you need three anyhow. So, both those guys are going to be big parts of what we do.” Owens has missed time twice in training camp with a foot injury. McFadden had two shaky preseason games as he recovers from a groin strain. Skrine, lauded by two coaching staffs for his feistiness, committed a team-high 12 penalties a season ago, tied for fifth-most in the NFL. While the Browns invested heavily in remaking their defense, they allocated most of their resources to the front seven in keeping with the organization’s desire to pressure opposing quarterbacks. The decision to draft safety Jamoris Slaughter and his surgically repaired Achilles in the sixth round seemed as puzzling in April as it did Saturday when the Browns cut him. Slaughter could resurface on the team’s practice squad although the emergence of undrafted free agent Josh Aubrey mitigates damage of a potential wasted pick. Some have expressed doubt in the ability of starting free safety Tashaun Gipson, but he hasn’t appeared overmatched in any of his appearances dating to late last season. It’s the cornerbacks not named Haden that are the real cause for concern. In fairness, Skrine looked good in training camp and preseason. If he relies on his ability and doesn’t give officials reason to reach in their back pockets because of his aggressiveness against taller receivers the third-year pro could make strides. But memories of the last season’s Dallas game – he was flagged three times -- do not fade quickly. Owens, meanwhile, has to remain healthy enough to contribute. He was the only cornerback the Browns acquired in free agency before the club drafted McFadden in the third round. McFadden got deep twice in the preseason finale against Chicago after Indianapolis targeted him repeatedly in his NFL debut. The rookie deserves time to adjust before making any harsh judgments, but for now the learning curve looks as steep as the St Louis Arch. What we don’t know and won’t know until the Dolphins arrive is if Horton’s defensive schemes can alleviate pressure on the cornerbacks. The Browns predictably have not shown much deception or exotic packages – hallmarks of Horton’s defenses – in the preseason. They also have had key personnel in their front seven, Jabaal Sheard (knee), Desmond Bryant (back spasms) Barkevious Mingo (bruised lung), missing time with injury. If the Browns can effectively pressure the passer the cornerbacks should benefit from hurried throws and rushed decisions. But if quarterbacks get enough time and one-on-one match-ups the team might rue not doing more to upgrade the position. The Browns didn’t add a cornerback Sunday although there’s still time to do so. With each passing day, however, the league’s second-hand store loses more value. You can argue the Browns shouldn’t have put themselves in such a position. But right now these last-minute shoppers have nowhere else to spend their money. http://www.cleveland.com
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A lot of the weakness can be masked if a) Haden becomes true shut down corner and b) Haden follows other teams #1.
Let's hope both happen.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
They have just three others: Buster Skrine, Chris Owens and Leon McFadden available – all listed at 5-foot-9.
Not an imposing group.
When I watch Seattle play, their CBs play nasty. Especially on special teams. They have 5 CBs and none are smaller than 5-11. Their starters are 6-3 and 6-4.
Joe Haden plays on one side, he don't follow the other teams #1 WR. He also has trouble against speedy WRs. If other teams put the speedster on his side and taller WRs on the Browns other CBs, we are in for a long season. The Browns better hope Horton makes sure the opposing QB doesn't have time or 8 wins will be tough to come by.
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Quote:
A lot of the weakness can be masked if a) Haden becomes true shut down corner and b) Haden follows other teams #1.
Let's hope both happen.
No doubt.
Can't sell pressure short as well. When you can cut 1-1.5+ seconds off of a QB's timing, ordinary CB's can become Pro Bowl CB's overnight.
However, I cringe at the thought of our DB's going up against teams like Cincy. Just when you start thinking they are truly talented they add a Tyler Eifert to their starting cast.
I'm "cringing" at this very moment.
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What's scarier than only 4 cb on an nfl roster? How good it's assumed Chris Owens will be on sunday? 
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The corner backs are a big concern. Rish made a good point about Haden, but thus far in his career and even during preseason, he plays almost exclusively on the defensive left side and does NOT follow the other team's #1 WR around, contrary to what some may say. I'm not saying that Owens and Skrine can't get the job done, but it is concerning. I think the FO should have done more to upgrade that position. Bad corners are easily exposed and it's out there for the entire world to see. Not many see it when a NT or DT gets sealed and the RB zips through the line for a big gain, but when a corner gets beat.........everyone sees it. I'm sure there are some on here licking their chops in anticipation of Skrine/Owens getting burned so they can rip the FO and moon for Heckert again.  But seriously, the secondary is a big concern.
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Everyone's main concern is Weeden ... but after that the secondary is mine. Quite frankly, I'm pretty shocked that we didn't do more to address this area of our team. Most felt it was our biggest weakness going into this offseason ... we signed a marginal player in Owens and drafted McFadden (who many thought was an odd selection anyways) in the 3rd ... those two moves didn't necessarily evoke any positive feelings from me. I actually think our secondary is in the exact same position this year ... I hated Sheldon Brown and Dmitri Patterson, but I'd call them a wash when looking at Skrine/Owens.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I'm sure there are some on here licking their chops in anticipation of Skrine/Owens getting burned so they can rip the FO and moon for Heckert again.
I sincerely hope that is not the case! Nobody should put their agenda in front of the team's success. That's just plain wrong...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there are some on here licking their chops in anticipation of Skrine/Owens getting burned so they can rip the FO and moon for Heckert again.
I sincerely hope that is not the case! Nobody should put their agenda in front of the team's success. That's just plain wrong...
That's only the case in Vers mind.
Example:
bb32: I was going for a walk today and tripped over a cracked sidewalk. Nearly broke my leg. Reminded me of Dion Lewis and how painful that must have been.
Vers: So what you're saying is H&H wouldn't have signed Lewis and that the new FO should have known he's fragile? It amazes me how much people loved those guys and dis the new guys. bb32, you had your mind made up before you even took that walk!
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I agree w/the Weeden comment.
I do think that almost everyone said that we needed an Edge Rusher above all, though. Now that we got a couple, people seem to forget it was such a huge need.
But, the bottom line is that we did indeed need help at corner and the FO didn't do a very good job of addressing it.
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Did you really not only waste our time w/that post..........but, your own? 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there are some on here licking their chops in anticipation of Skrine/Owens getting burned so they can rip the FO and moon for Heckert again.
I sincerely hope that is not the case! Nobody should put their agenda in front of the team's success. That's just plain wrong...
That's only the case in Vers mind.
Example:
bb32: I was going for a walk today and tripped over a cracked sidewalk. Nearly broke my leg. Reminded me of Dion Lewis and how painful that must have been.
Vers: So what you're saying is H&H wouldn't have signed Lewis and that the new FO should have known he's fragile? It amazes me how much people loved those guys and dis the new guys. bb32, you had your mind made up before you even took that walk!
Nah, I didn't trip on the crack. Vers tripped me....but caught me on the way down! He and I are good, even though we often are not on the page... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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We are left with no other choice than to believe that the Browns think Skrine can handle the CB2 position. How else to explain their ignoring numerous available CB's in free agency, or the 2-3 good CB's in the first round of the draft? I just hope they're right.
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I am not sure about this..........but did the Browns name Skrine the starter? I kinda thought that he and Owens would be both be playing a lot.
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To my knowledge they haven't decided who is the #2. I thought Owens had the edge.
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I kinda thought that.........but wasn't sure.
I thought Owens had the edge, too......but perhaps injuries set him back.
I do believe that I have heard Chud say both will play a lot. Right?
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Im pretty sure I've read that Chud named him the starter the other day at his PC. Owens got some props too and seems to be the nickel. McFadden is last on the depth chart. So, 1 to 4 is Haden, Skrine, Owens, McF going into week 1
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That is correct.
Skrine is #2.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Okay, thanks. I missed that.
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I don't think they named a starter yet, but I assumed it was decided based on Skrine starting in the preseason and playing most of the first team snaps. Maybe it will be Owens, but I can't remember seeing him play that much. I did think Skrine looked a lot better this preseason than he did last year, which is faint praise, I guess, since he looked pretty bad last year.
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Ah thanks. I missed that update. Can we request that other teams just play their slot receivers?
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From the article that started this thread... Quote:
Coach Rob Chudzinski tried to speak in positive terms regarding his cornerbacks Saturday in announcing Skrine as the starter opposite Haden.
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Yeah, I was late to the thread ... only read recent replies. You'll have that sometimes.
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Quote:
From the article that started this thread...
Quote:
Coach Rob Chudzinski tried to speak in positive terms regarding his cornerbacks Saturday in announcing Skrine as the starter opposite Haden.
In addition to pimping Skrine a long time ago...I stated weeks ago that I expect Skrine to be CB #2 and move to the slot whenever necessary with Owens coming in to play outside.
We are going to like him very very soon.
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I agree, I think he's shown improved play and better coverage skills. I think he'll do well but could get beaten up on by big receivers. Rish's point is well taken, even though Haden and Skrine play well, they will be vulnerable in certain situations. Regardless of Skrine's ability, we need size to go with skill opposite Haden to lock down the left side. It's just not happening this year.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I'm not as high on Skrine as you guys are, but there was an interview with Haden a few weeks back where he specifically spoke on Skrine's struggles last year. I'm not sure if it was posted here or not, but it was a candid, refreshing critique of one player from another.
He basically said that Skrine did all of that holding and PI last year because he would often panic too soon if he felt he was even slightly beat. Joe was imploring Skrine to trust himself more and trust his speed that he can recover on a play where he feels beat. Basically, don't panic.
I took away a couple of things from the interview. One, the team and his teammates see something in Skrine that they believe is fixable. Two, it's not a skill issue, per se, but a mental thing. I think that's a step in the right direction. Maybe, just maybe, if he can learn to trust himself a bit better, the mental part will catch up to the skill part.
I do find it interesting that this is the second regime in a row that is fairly high on him. He must be showing something in practice. I know they constantly say how hard he works and how competitive he is, but they've got to be something seeing something else skill-wise that make them believe.
I'm not as confident that will be the case when the real bullets start flying, but I hope you guys are right.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c
My feeling is secondary starts out slow and gains confidence as the front seven is able to increase QB pressure. As Vers pointed out, in order to run a pressure defense Browns much needed a pass rusher. FO got two, and hoped Sheard converted well.
I don't think there was a lot of good options in FA. There were several potentials CB who came off big injuries. Not sure those guys were worth the investment. In the draft, having a second round could have landed a better option. This last draft was really talent deficient. I read somewhere 77 UDFA made rosters this year. That is 20+ more than the normal 50.
Browns FO fixed one major concern and that was the DL. Going forward they can continue adding talent at receiver and defensive backs. Lombardi did well rebuilding the running back position. After Lewis and Hardesty went down that area was a major concern.
I am not totally concern Owens and Skrine can do well. My biggest concern is if any of the starters get hurt.
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Good post, thanks for the info.
I always liked Skrine since we picked him, but saw him as a slot guy with maybe outside upside down the road. So far, he has shown to be an adequate to good slot CB, but looked bad outside (for whatever reasons). With that in mind, I think it's too much a leap of faith to project him as starter yet, even if he has the upside. If he's good enough, he can push for it from down the depth chart while providing good play inside and spot start. But to "plan" with him as a starter is walking on very thin ice, both in terms of faith and depth in case of an injury. If it wasn't the plan, what was it then? Owens was worse than Skrine as ATL demoted him from no3 to 4 CB last season. Was McFadden the planned starter? Whoever it was the planned, there was some serious mis-evaluation going on.
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I saw that interview and my takeaway was that Skrine needed experience. My thinking is that you, (and I and everyone else,) will be pleasantly surprised by some of the plays he makes. He closes quickly and shows very good ability to get a hand on the ball. He's not afraid to get physical, even with big receivers. On the other hand, there will likely be times when we'll grab our heads, groaning "Oh no!" when passes are placed out of his reach, a big receiver goes up to get it, rips himself away from Skine's clutch and rumbles into the end zone. I think that is the best you can hope for with a starting CB of Skrine's stature, regardless of his skill set.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
From the article that started this thread...
Quote:
Coach Rob Chudzinski tried to speak in positive terms regarding his cornerbacks Saturday in announcing Skrine as the starter opposite Haden.
In addition to pimping Skrine a long time ago...I stated weeks ago that I expect Skrine to be CB #2 and move to the slot whenever necessary with Owens coming in to play outside.
We are going to like him very very soon.
I have heard more than once this preseason that Skrine was the most improved/had the best TC out of all players, O and D.
Just gotta see it on the field in real time when it all counts.
Imo after seeing him last year he does have what it takes in that "CB's have to have a real short memory".
However, in defense of the entire D in regards to the upcoming season, I've also heard/read that Hortons D doesn't "kick in" till around mid-season. Surrendering approx 27-28pts per game and X amount of yds till it kicks in should be/will be the norm.
By then we should start hearing the annual "fire/shoot/crucify everyone"(FO, Coach Staff, Hot Dog Vendors, etc) crowd in full force. 
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Not saying that Reed is wrong here, but as is typical, writers and some fans aren't looking at the big picture.
This management team made a decision to bolster the front 7 on D. Kruger, Mingo, D Bryant etc...
tha'ts a decision they made. Had they gone the other way and attempted to bolster the Secondary and leave the Front 7 alone or with little upgrades (like they did with the secondary) Reed would be jumping on that as a concern.
I'm like everyone else I guess, I wanna see the next Eric Turner, Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield back there but is it reasonable to expect that in one season? I mean, we had the money to blow on a secondary, that's a given, but was it wise to have done so.
What they did with the Front 7 is build for what appears to be the next 4 or 5 years.. Could they have done that AND spent FA money on a secondary also?
I question if it would have been possible. But who knows, perhaps they tried and failed to attract the guys they really wanted, like maybe Grimes as a for instance. There could have been others, who knows.
I'm not trying to make excuses for these guys.. I don't feel I owe them that at all. They've proven nothing yet really. By the end of the season, we should have a better handle on it.
I'll wat until the soup is cooked before I comment on the taste..
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Damon, they didn't just address the front 7, they put all of their eggs in one basket on the front 7.
They used both of their top FA signings AND the #6 overall draft pick on the front 7.
I wasn't against bolstering the front 7. It was something that needed to be done. But something simply didn't make sense here.
We were told that our current roster was more suited to play Hortons 3-4 than the 4-3 they were playing. I agreed with that. Then they turn around and put all of their eggs in one basket by using all 3 of their top investments there? Thost two things simply don't line up, especially given the need an the secondary.
Everyone keeps talking about how pressure will solve all of our ills, but it simply isn't so. Nobody gets pressure all of the time. And with the qustions we have at S combined with some of the weaknesses we have seen in our LB'ers in coverage, the short over the middle stuff will kill us.
Those plays can be executed quickly. And it tends to cause the pressure to be backed off some. Then our CB's weaknesses will unfortunately be shown to all.
This writer is correct. I know most seem to try to dismiss anything the press says in regards to negative comments about the Browns. But if you look over our record since our return, they have often been far more right than our fan base has ever given them credit for IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Not saying that Reed is wrong here, but as is typical, writers and some fans aren't looking at the big picture.
This management team made a decision to bolster the front 7 on D. Kruger, Mingo, D Bryant etc...
tha'ts a decision they made. Had they gone the other way and attempted to bolster the Secondary and leave the Front 7 alone or with little upgrades (like they did with the secondary) Reed would be jumping on that as a concern.
I'm like everyone else I guess, I wanna see the next Eric Turner, Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield back there but is it reasonable to expect that in one season? I mean, we had the money to blow on a secondary, that's a given, but was it wise to have done so.
What they did with the Front 7 is build for what appears to be the next 4 or 5 years.. Could they have done that AND spent FA money on a secondary also?
I question if it would have been possible. But who knows, perhaps they tried and failed to attract the guys they really wanted, like maybe Grimes as a for instance. There could have been others, who knows.
I'm not trying to make excuses for these guys.. I don't feel I owe them that at all. They've proven nothing yet really. By the end of the season, we should have a better handle on it.
I'll wat until the soup is cooked before I comment on the taste..
Couldn't agree more.
Let me add 1 question.
1. Do FA players want to come here?
Hmmmm? Well, what we heard last year was a fairly resounding "NO".
Wasn't it SI that had the "semi discrete" players polls on "what coaches, what cities, what teams, etc, etc, etc?
Imo it'll take a little time to attract players here. Don't wanna hear about the $$$ will bring em here. For the most part, any "just above avg" CB, WR, OG, etc can get the same cash in a warmer climate or on a better (W/L) team elsewhere.
Imo, gotta win first and show the FO and coach staff consistency first and then........."They Will Come". 
jmho
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Quote:
1. Do FA players want to come here?
If you give a free agent money he will come. Mario Williams went to freaking Buffalo because they paid him.
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Quote:
Quote:
1. Do FA players want to come here?
If you give a free agent money he will come. Mario Williams went to freaking Buffalo because they paid him.
Gotcha.
A 100 million dollar, largest contract ever paid to a D player is your answer?
Ok. You win.
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" Don't wanna hear about the $$$ will bring em here"
You are a man of your words,not only do you not want to hear about it,you just completely ignore it.
BTW,Williams was going to get something near that elsewhere.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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" Don't wanna hear about the $$$ will bring em here"
You are a man of your words,not only do you not want to hear about it,you just completely ignore it.
BTW,Williams was going to get something near that elsewhere.
Would you want to pay him that?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
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Not saying that Reed is wrong here, but as is typical, writers and some fans aren't looking at the big picture.
This management team made a decision to bolster the front 7 on D. Kruger, Mingo, D Bryant etc...
tha'ts a decision they made. Had they gone the other way and attempted to bolster the Secondary and leave the Front 7 alone or with little upgrades (like they did with the secondary) Reed would be jumping on that as a concern.
I'm like everyone else I guess, I wanna see the next Eric Turner, Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield back there but is it reasonable to expect that in one season? I mean, we had the money to blow on a secondary, that's a given, but was it wise to have done so.
What they did with the Front 7 is build for what appears to be the next 4 or 5 years.. Could they have done that AND spent FA money on a secondary also?
I question if it would have been possible. But who knows, perhaps they tried and failed to attract the guys they really wanted, like maybe Grimes as a for instance. There could have been others, who knows.
I'm not trying to make excuses for these guys.. I don't feel I owe them that at all. They've proven nothing yet really. By the end of the season, we should have a better handle on it.
I'll wat until the soup is cooked before I comment on the taste..
Couldn't agree more.
Let me add 1 question.
1. Do FA players want to come here?
Hmmmm? Well, what we heard last year was a fairly resounding "NO".
Wasn't it SI that had the "semi discrete" players polls on "what coaches, what cities, what teams, etc, etc, etc?
Imo it'll take a little time to attract players here. Don't wanna hear about the $$$ will bring em here. For the most part, any "just above avg" CB, WR, OG, etc can get the same cash in a warmer climate or on a better (W/L) team elsewhere.
Imo, gotta win first and show the FO and coach staff consistency first and then........."They Will Come".
jmho
As illustrated, they'll come for the money.., But at what price? Is it worth it? There has to come a time when you have to say,, NO. that's too much money to tie up in one guy. And that number has to be different for every position.
The short answer is, if you pay them enough, they'll come here or anywhere.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
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Whoever it was the planned, there was some serious mis-evaluation going on.
Of course there was.
Why don't you and Pit buy the team and fire the FO and bring back your heroes?
If you can't afford, can you at least give it a rest for a post or two?
God, what a freaking broken record you have become.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
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Everyone keeps talking about how pressure will solve all of our ills,
What? Have you read this stinking thread?
Almost everyone---including me---has criticized the FO for not addressing the secondary Is that not enough for you, Pit? Should we tar and feather them? Should we burn them at the stake? Should we fire them and bring back H and H?
Ahhhhhhhhh.........yeah, that's it.
Keep crying, Pit..........but, it ain't happening. I hope you enjoy being miserable. 
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